Maguire wasn't at fault for the goal

Eckers99

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Let's not split hairs, it was poor by everyone. Maguire hesitated, De Gea bottled it, neither of them communicated and Williams wasn't alive to the danger. Shaw is the only full back we have who generally covers his centre back without getting completely exposed. AWB fails at it repeatedly and top teams know that a quick diagonal over to his side causes him problems time and time again.

Defensively we're nowhere near good enough. It's amateurish at times.
 

Zen86

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Seriously, lads? He slowed down deliberately and left it behind. I know he's slow but the ball was easy to boot in the stands or just nod it for a corner. The ball didn't travel at ferocious speed either. It's blatantly obvious he left it for the keeper, without zero awareness of who is behind him.

Watch the video. As soon the ball went wide he walked into the box and from there on he didn't look around him, probably expecting Williams to follow his man or De Gea to come and collect it. It was ball watching at its finest. Going by his impression he didn't knew where Kluivert was before seeing the ball in the back of the net.
Look how far away the ball is from him. The ball had taken a big deflection.

Unless you think he's elastic and could simply stretch his limbs onto the ball, in reality this "easy clearance" you talk about would have been him wildly diving and swiping his feet at the ball which was more likely to put the ball in the back of his own net than into the stands.
 

Enigma_87

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On a side note, not sure if it has been mentioned, but the state of what Donnie did is also appalling. He didn't even look around, marked no one and walked towards the center with the opposition player he had to cover yards behind him... There was literally 20 square yards of free space around him when the opposition was on the ball and free players everywhere.

McT too, what the feck was he doing? It's not only the defence, no one covered their man from the midfielders. No one looked over his shoulder, just jogged around.

Our transition was a clusterfeck. You can put the blame really everywhere and won't be wrong.
 

Lay

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What the feck is DDG doing. Not good enough anymore
 

kouroux

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Unreal isn't it? why is he turning his back on little 5'7 Kluivert?! imagine big Pete or VDS in that situation :lol: they'd be taking the ball and the man.

goal keepers should never be turning their back in any situation - it just shows he's lost his bottle unfortunately.
Rewatch how he shaped himself vs Neymar last week for his first goal. DDG is afraid to be in pain
 

Adam-Utd

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Rewatch how he shaped himself vs Neymar last week for his first goal. DDG is afraid to be in pain
Yeah it's been a problem for a while now. Feels like he fakes making himself big and is scared to hurt his face so he stops looking at the ball. Worrying.
 

LochGormanAbú

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Maguire leaves the forward behind him, fine, but he 100% should be aware that forward is moving in and therefore once he goes towards the ball, clear it, he clearly leaves it. Poor from DeGea, diabolical example of defending from Maguire.
 

scream

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The first fault was Maguire - he should have launched it.
The second fault was De Gea - bottled it.
The only fault Williams had was expecting the other two to actually make an effort to play football.
 

Enigma_87

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Look how far away the ball is from him. The ball had taken a big deflection.

Unless you think he's elastic and could simply stretch his limbs onto the ball, in reality this "easy clearance" you talk about would have been him wildly diving and swiping his feet at the ball which was more likely to put the ball in the back of his own net than into the stands.
I've watched the video many times and also during the game. He slowed down deliberately and left it behind him with zero awareness what is happening. As I said - IMO he didn't knew where Kluivert was (missed him completely) and thought either DDG(didn't realize he was rooted to the spot) or Williams will pick up the loose ball.

You can also see the nice little hop he made after he just realized it was a bad decision to leave it behind.

I'm not saying DDG is absolved from blame, nor Williams, nor the entire defence/midfield, but Maguire should clear that ball even throwing himself into it(although looking at how he slowed down IMO it was well within his range without sliding).
 

thepolice123

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On a side note, not sure if it has been mentioned, but the state of what Donnie did is also appalling. He didn't even look around, marked no one and walked towards the center with the opposition player he had to cover yards behind him... There was literally 20 square yards of free space around him when the opposition was on the ball and free players everywhere.

McT too, what the feck was he doing? It's not only the defence, no one covered their man from the midfielders. No one looked over his shoulder, just jogged around.

Our transition was a clusterfeck. You can put the blame really everywhere and won't be wrong.
That guy at the back was Williams‘ man. We had the ball on the edge of our PK area before we lost it, obviously VDB would be in space waiting for the pass. And McT should have picked up his man instead of Lindelof which caused a knock-on effect to the entire backline as they had to shift. I know our performance was bad but this is nitpicking at best.
 

El Zoido

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It’s a failure of the entire defence as a unit. It’s shambolic for a top flight club, let alone United. You wouldn’t even expect this from bottom-of-the-league Sheffield United.
 

elnorte

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He did the right thing by going to the intended target of the cross but the ball took a deflection.

Williams should have been covering the man behind him.

DDG should have been stronger and swept up the loose ball.
Purely out of interest, what are your overall feelings on Maguire.
 

Falcow

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It’s 99% on De Gea for me. Too slow to react, too cowardly when he finally does.
This, though William's should have gone across as soon as maguire moved to the other guy but that doesnt absolve Ddg.
 

Adam-Utd

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It’s a failure of the entire defence as a unit. It’s shambolic for a top flight club, let alone United. You wouldn’t even expect this from bottom-of-the-league Sheffield United.
They just need to keep it simple.

2 things go wrong there that cause this issue.

1 of Pogba/Mctominay need to drop into the space between AWB and Lindelof.

Lindelof needs to stay in the centre of the goal and mark the 2 strikers alongside Maguire.

Instead though Lindelof decides to move across to the man in his eyeline, instead of staying with his man in the 6 yard box.

Him moving over means Maguire then follows to cover the front post, and it ends up leaving Kluivert all alone.

If Lindelof just stayed where he was that wouldn't have happened. He/Maguire should be screaming at the midfield to drop and cover.

The goal is ALWAYS the number 1 priority, our centre backs should never be leaving the width of the posts in that situation.
 

Lukinho

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You can say that it was de geas fault but Maguire always does this. He never attacks the ball when it comes into the box. When its coming in the air he will attack it but when its on the ground he always lets the ball go through. I dont know why he is doing this. Even when he is in a good position to clear it he still doesnt do it at lets the ball go past him.
 

flappyjay

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Spare me a thought here De gea doesn't scream for Maguire to leave the ball why Maguire allowed to assume the keeper is rushing out for the ball. For me they are both at fault. De gea for his cowardly attempt at a save and Maguire for not clearing in such a dangerous situation.
 

Enigma_87

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That guy at the back was Williams‘ man. We had the ball on the edge of our PK area before we lost it, obviously VDB would be in space waiting for the pass. And McT should have picked up his man instead of Lindelof which caused a knock-on effect to the entire backline as they had to shift. I know our performance was bad but this is nitpicking at best.
Spot on, which is why I said our transition was atrocious.



Problem is no one takes responsibility. Look at here, VDB makes a gesture to Williams for the man behind him and just strolls off. Never looked around, just waiting for the pass. After the domino effect happened Williams should've come inside not to leave Maguire against 2 attackers, and VDB should've minded the loose player as he was closest to him.

Next frame:

he sees the situation shifting - Maguire goes closer to Poulsen, meaning Williams tucking in to cover Kluivert - again doesn't do anything.

A ball over the top and the player can easily connect it at the far corner.

As I said, I'm not saying he's the big culprit here, I just don't understand what type of responsibility and what the hell our defensive game is. If we don't practice transitions and leave spare men in the box like that, pass responsibility to the teammate and generally ball watching it's useless to pass the fault from one individual to another because next game it will be another defender and the same result.

It's just ducking when we're put under pressure with zero awareness if or whether that team mate takes the responsibility when you pass it.

You can literally pick any player in that situation and fault him for the goal, but the general sense is that we have zero defensive organization.
 
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Yes, to a point. Maguire still seems to have a choice whether to try and stop the ball passing him.

Williams should have moved over to cover the guy.

De Gea is a coward. Would rather let the attacker score than risk getting clattered. De Gea is looking the other way when the attacker is kicking the ball. Disgrace. I've been a big fan and wanted him to keep his spot over Henderson but that cowardice should see him dropped.
 

Deery

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It’s up to Pogba or McTominey to drop into the centre back position if Lindelof goes out wide like that...
 

UpWithRivers

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They are all at fault. None of them are doing their jobs.
1. WB Should have stopped the cross
2. McTominay /Pogba should have tracked the player it deflected off

I actually think Lindelof was forced to cover wide and the deflection was just unlucky

3. Maguire was in the right place but he let the ball come across him and left it for De Gea. He had no idea who was behind him. Yeah there was a big deflection but it looks like he was defending his man and not stopping the ball thinking De Gea had it. He should have attacked the ball and cleared it. Or at least tried to.
4. Brandon should have picked up Kluivert. Shaw would have. It inexperience.
 

Poborsky's hair

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Obviously people with agenda or coach potato fans will blame 100% Maguire for this. The reality is that if you really want to blame you should break down the whole situation. I couldn´t find the whole clip but I reckon it was the very poor short pass Lindelof made to give the ball away, considering how poor the pass was I think he deserves about 15% blame, Bruno and AWB did their best defending there imho, Lindelof then had probably no chance to react for the clever shoulder flick from the player.

Maguire decision to go cover the front player was right he also has very little time to react foor the flick however if you slow down the clip, you can see that he looks confident looking at the direction of DDG, for him to sweep the ball in his six yard box.I read some nonsense that he should know how passive Dave in the goal is and expect that, in such short time you expect the very least - any goalie in the world not to stand on his heels and operates in the fecking 6 yard box. The anticipation is really poor and the starting position too, look how deep he is. let alone lack of organization. I mean he did have a very little time to shout at his players to cdover for each other but you know it´s a long term issue, even Brandon Williams is surprised he didn´t go for the ball, although he could have gone forward and cover, however there is another player on the far post who would be totally free and we would blame him same way we blame AWB defending too deep.

So I´d give 15% Lindelof for his horrific pass in the build up
10% to Maguire for not acting like a no-nonsense defender. However just to put some more perspective to it, we are 2-0 down and we really don´t wanna concede corners and put our team under more pressure, so he left it to DDG which should be there
15% to BW for not covering although you know there would be a massive gap behind him and expectations of DDG coming out was right to be strong
60% DDG, no organization, no anticipation, passivness or poor positioning and lack of any bravery. I think this should be his end tbh, at least Henderson should get a shot. DDG cost us so many games and champions league place in the last couple of seasons alone for nothing but LACK OF CONCENTRATION.

And please not start about how DDG saved us many times before. We all know that we owe him a bit but now its almost 2021 no 2017/18. Mistakesa re reoccusing and it´s not like keepers don´t make world class saves against us. Tom Heaton´s Kruls or some other keepers make some fabulous saves but we only talk DDG because we see him week in and week out..

Going back to OP, blaming Maguire solely for this is a farce, he´s an easy target and trust me or not one of our best players now who just need a bit more organization around him, solid system and some fan support, he will be great again, once we replace Ole for manager who know how to set up and make the team defend as a unit, finally replace the fraud Lindelof who can´t defend, have a quality proactive goalkeeper and a DM who would provide some cover.

And please let´s not talk about Matic and McT as DMs. Matic is inccredibly slow, can´t track players nor cover the ground, he only plays deep because he can´t run anymore. McT is a joke, can´t pass and is no dynamic either, only if he was at least half as good in positioning as we all want him to be, he really dowsn´t know where he should be and doesn´t anticipate enough, not the youngest either to drastically get better at it. Fix all the subpar issues around maguire and you will see we will have a much better defense
 

Himannv

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Maguire was stringing together some good performances and I haven't watched this game but judging by that clip this was an error in my view.

He's originally marking one player and he spots the danger and rushes to cover it and leaves the man he was originally covering, which is the right thing to do as he stops the intended target of that ball. However, he assumes that Williams will spot that and also cover and assumes that De Gea would also predict that things play out the way it did and sweep up. It's just too many assumptions on his part and hence it's his error. He needed to just trust no one else there and clear the ball once he got near enough to it or communicate better. It wasn't enough just blocking the intended ball receiver there. It's an understandable mistake to make, but a mistake nevertheless.

De Gea also makes a mistake in a sense that he's too slow off the line, but he also doesn't have a lot of time to make that call. He's naturally a shot-stopping goalkeeper and his initial instinct is to stay on the line to stop the shot and he sees the first threat as the intended receiver of that ball so he's covering the angle for that. He sees that Maguire probably reaches the ball first and it's only when the ball passes Maguire that he realizes there's a secondary threat. That split second wasted costs him in terms of stepping out and making the save.

Williams seems to have gotten away with it in the thread so far, but he's also at fault. When he sees Maguire going to the intended target of that ball and leave his man, Willams ideally should take the other man. He has the best view of the attack and a more experienced defender would have covered the secondary threat there, but he was caught on his heels a bit too much for my liking. You can argue that he might not have made it in time in any case so there isn't much he could have done, but he doesn't read the threat here until it is far too late.

The main point to note though is the whole thing could have been avoided with more leadership and communication and for this reason I'd say the main fault is with Maguire. His price tag doesn't matter but the fact that he is captain and the leader of the backline means that he should be taking ownership of this problem here. He needs to take charge and clear it. If he's not planning to clear it himself and just shield off the man he was marking, he should communicate to De Gea to come out and collect or communicate to Williams to take the man he was originally marking. I accept that his first priority was to get to the ball there but if he didn't want to waste time communicating then he should have dealt with it and he didn't.
 

flappyjay

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No, the goalkeeper should manage it, since he’s the one that has the full view of the situation. Maguire hasn’t got eyes in the back of his head. Gk should organise his defence, it’s just weak goalkeeping. Silent as a mouse then stands there while a player roams in to his six yard area
God christ watch any premier league game defenders are hoofing that all day long. Maguire should have hoofed it too. De gea is only guilty of being a coward in that whole mess. Leipzig almost conceded an own goal from their defender trying to defend a similar type of ball. You simply don't let it roll across your goal post
 

Enigma_87

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It’s up to Pogba or McTominey to drop into the centre back position if Lindelof goes out wide like that...
yet no one does it.

It's not just this situation. There is no one commanding the line. Lindelof/ Maguire look like complete strangers. DDG/Maguire are never vocal or line their defence.

You can pin it on DDG, yet we have our captain at the heart of the defence with loads of experience, who should also take the responsibility of command the line. Do you see him remotely doing something like that?
 

norm87cro

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I've defended Maguire a lot on this forum but I have to say it is a joint responsibility this goal and it reflects how bad our defensive unit can be. I have no sympathy this time because they are all pro footballers and its a very soft goal to be concieding.
 

Davie Moyes

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I've watched the video many times and also during the game. He slowed down deliberately and left it behind him with zero awareness what is happening. As I said - IMO he didn't knew where Kluivert was (missed him completely) and thought either DDG(didn't realize he was rooted to the spot) or Williams will pick up the loose ball.

You can also see the nice little hop he made after he just realized it was a bad decision to leave it behind.


I'm not saying DDG is absolved from blame, nor Williams, nor the entire defence/midfield, but Maguire should clear that ball even throwing himself into it(although looking at how he slowed down IMO it was well within his range without sliding).
Absolutely agree Enigma. The bold bit highlighted was the telling part.
 

Deery

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yet no one does it.

It's not just this situation. There is no one commanding the line. Lindelof/ Maguire look like complete strangers. DDG/Maguire are never vocal or line their defence.

You can pin it on DDG, yet we have our captain at the heart of the defence with loads of experience, who should also take the responsibility of command the line. Do you see him remotely doing something like that?
He should be shouting his head off for one of them to get back and cover him but they should know their job also, there’s too many mistakes in that sequence of play to put blame at one door. A shit show all round is how you could see it.
 

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People who has played football know that this isnt on Maguire. He's has two mark and that can only go so well.

Lindeløf was dragged out wide several times yesterday, why cant the two of them never be in correct positions at the same time?
 

El Zoido

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God christ watch any premier league game defenders are hoofing that all day long. Maguire should have hoofed it too. De gea is only guilty of being a coward in that whole mess. Leipzig almost conceded an own goal from their defender trying to defend a similar type of ball. You simply don't let it roll across your goal post
I said in another post that it’s a failure of the whole defence. Everyone made a mistake, absolutely everyone. Lindelöf gave it away in the first instance then got pulled out of position trying to correct his mistake, Williams is watching the game and might as well be in the stands, Maguire is indecisive, DDG is slow and cowardly. And what I mean by goalkeeper managing it, is he should scream to Maguire to clear it because he can see the player coming through the middle. Not saying Maguire shouldn’t have cleared it anyway, but nobody looks like they know what they’re doing. I still can’t believe how awful a goal this is to concede.
 

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Basically it’s one of those perfect scenarios where everyone gets to shit on their defensive scapegoat of choice. As we can see from the assorted DDG, Maguire, Lindelof and Williams bashing already in this thread. Just a pity Shaw and Telles weren’t on the pitch at the time.

I’m waving my pitchfork in De Gea’s direction, personally...
 

Enigma_87

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He should be shouting his head off for one of them to get back and cover him but they should know their job also, there’s too many mistakes in that sequence of play to put blame at one door. A shit show all round is how you could see it.
Yup.

I just want to finish it with another classic. It's not Maguire this time, but the pattern is clear(their first):


I honestly have no idea how we defend counters - is it zonal, are we attacking the ball, do we stick with our man, who is passing on who. There is no communication, no responsibility, no shouting. It's a big clusterfeck and hope for the best.

Even if Maguire assumes the correct position, even when Lindelof is dragged and someone fills in, there are at least 2 others in our unit that are out of position and don't know what they are doing.

Another still for the 2nd goal. Ball out wide and this time it's on the far post (eerie similar to what I was getting for their third if that ball was over the top)



absolutely no one is minding him, no one knows there is a player attacking the far post or generally looking over his shoulder. Could've easily happened as a carbon copy for the third.

People who has played football know that this isnt on Maguire. He's has two mark and that can only go so well.

Lindeløf was dragged out wide several times yesterday, why cant the two of them never be in correct positions at the same time?
I've played football and also have played filled in as a CB. Without knowing who is behind you, you do whatever you have to not to let the ball roll on behind you like that. There is a reason why many of the own goals happen like that - you have to put your foot on, that's a fecking rule.
 

Doracle

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The ball rolls past his right leg. If he swings his foot at it its cleared rather than rolls to Kluivert.

Its poor from Maguire and then De Gea bottles sweeping up after him.

One of these is an £80m defender, the other our best paid player. Says a lot.
The clip clearly shows it takes a big deflection away from him so that he can’t get to it. Thanks for sharing the perfect angle as I hadn’t been able to find it. Bizarre though that you have done so and still somehow think he should have cleared it.
 

flappyjay

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I said in another post that it’s a failure of the whole defence. Everyone made a mistake, absolutely everyone. Lindelöf gave it away in the first instance then got pulled out of position trying to correct his mistake, Williams is watching the game and might as well be in the stands, Maguire is indecisive, DDG is slow and cowardly. And what I mean by goalkeeper managing it, is he should scream to Maguire to clear it because he can see the player coming through the middle. Not saying Maguire shouldn’t have cleared it anyway, but nobody looks like they know what they’re doing. I still can’t believe how awful a goal this is to concede.
The worst bit is that it isn't the most amateurish one we conceded in this group. The Istanbul one where we conceded from our set piece takes the cake. It's not even bad defending its more like poor leadership.
 

sammsky1

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He did the right thing by going to the intended target of the cross but the ball took a deflection.

Williams should have been covering the man behind him.

DDG should have been stronger and swept up the loose ball.
Agreed.
Whole thing was set off was a very poor pass from Lindelöf to Pogba.
Also look at Pogba just having a gentle stroll back.
DDG bottled it. He should have committed his entire body, with risk of getting a little bashed up.
 

arnie_ni

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Didn’t AWB give Pogba an atrocious pass when it was easier to pass to feet?
Its was lindelof and the pass couldn't have been much more than a metre.

He missed pogba by a greater distance than the pass had to travel