Can't really blame him for the goal.
Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"
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They play some classic LvG stuff at times.
Privately, Pep must be pretty dismayed at the atmosphere (at lack of) at the Etihad. Yes, the onus is on the players to inspire the the fans, but on occasion, like like night, the supporters need to galvanise the team - it was sterile last night.
2 games are also two few for anyone to claim 3-5-2 isn't working out for City. That team has a lot of telling to do ahead. Kompany was not fit almost all of last season, yet now he is being asked to form a center half trio with Stones and Otamandi. That will take time to gel. Added to that the wingbacks to protect them are completely new, which requires more gelling too.
To top it off, only the center midfield department is a gelled unit. Even up top Aguero and Jesus are getting used to being a duo. After 10 league games is about the time we will know for sure if it ain't working....
To top it off, only the center midfield department is a gelled unit. Even up top Aguero and Jesus are getting used to being a duo. After 10 league games is about the time we will know for sure if it ain't working....
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They are no better than they were under Pellegrini in 2013/14, when they scored over 100 goals to win the league. £400m in twelve months and Guardiola still hasn't sorted out their deficiencies.
Note fair, he is a fine goal keeper
Sterling who had a huge impact on the game came on from the bench, they also want to add Sanchez from what we hear. Once Mendy and Gundogan come into the team and the likes of Jesus sharpening up, it will be a different story. That second half performance with ten men against a good side was impressive. But they have spent like a Billion pounds so yeah.
I honestly think Pep causes a lot of their deficiencies. Should Sane really been the player responsible with dealing that ball on the left hand touchline before Everton go on to score? Why spend £100m on left backs and then try and play Sane as a wing back?
I think Guardiola is too clever by half. Instead of just playing 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 he has decided to come in muck about. Ball playing goalies, inverted full backs going into midfield, wingers playing in odd positions, No.10s playing at the heart of midfield...
You can't imagine Jose Mourinho taking the same squad and doing the same baffling stuff. When it works everyone says that Pep's a genius but when it doesn't it looks daft. Most managers would be happy playing two proper big lads at the back and in midfield and giving your Silva's and De Bruyne's a platform to attack. To me, Pep's got himself into the habit of needlessly overcomplicating to show how profound his footballing understanding is. What we've seen at City, and even at Bayern, is so far removed from the 4-3-3 he used at Barca. He's basically playing David Silva in the same position he used to play Xavi. How does that make any sense?
I honestly think Pep causes a lot of their deficiencies. Should Sane really been the player responsible with dealing that ball on the left hand touchline before Everton go on to score? Why spend £100m on left backs and then try and play Sane as a wing back?
I think Guardiola is too clever by half. Instead of just playing 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 he has decided to come in muck about. Ball playing goalies, inverted full backs going into midfield, wingers playing in odd positions, No.10s playing at the heart of midfield...
To me, Pep's got himself into the habit of needlessly overcomplicating to show how profound his footballing understanding is. What we've seen at City, and even at Bayern, is so far removed from the 4-3-3 he used at Barca. He's basically playing David Silva in the same position he used to play Xavi. How does that make any sense?
Agree with all of this. He's so caught up in trying to 'revolutionise' English football that he's making unnecessary mistakes from bizarre tactical decisions. His man-management skills, whereby he alienated popular squad members in Hart and Toure, also leave a lot to be desired.
Many of the messes City find themselves are Guardiola's own doing, pure and simple.
I remember before Pep went to City, many (myself included) were seduced into thinking United should try and get him first.
I am so glad we ended up with Jose not them. Mourinho with Emirati oil money behind him would've built a monster of a team comparable to Chelsea 2005.
People using yesterday's behaviour as evidence that he's under pressure haven't really watched him.
He's very awkward in front of the camera. Has always been like that. He's just a weird character.
He's very awkward in front of the camera. Has always been like that. He's just a weird character.
But going by the default CAF opinion, almost every top PL manager is "weird".
Klopp: maniac, weird
Pep: awkward, weird
Conte: excited, weird
Wenger: detached, weird
Only Poch has escaped this weird tag, probably because he's very low profile. If Pep was here and Mourinho was at City the latter would be called weird also, most likely.
It's not a dreadful result to be honest, but at present I don't see any difference with them from last season.
We'll,my gist is that as far as Pep is concerned, there was nothing extraordinary about his behaviour yesterday.
They are all weird. Jose being here doesn't change the fact that he's weird too.
They are only two games in and were pretty impressive with ten men against eleven.
If I was a City fan I'd be worried about Guardiola. He looks like he could easily have a Keeganesque meltdown and jump ship if Mourinho gets under his skin.
That said, I'd be able to get tickets much more easily than I am now, so it'd be a mixed blessing.
That said, I'd be able to get tickets much more easily than I am now, so it'd be a mixed blessing.
I'd love it if that happens, love it!
Jose did indeed have a better season in the end but as most you guys openly admit it came down to one game vs Ajax. Had you lost that would you be saying the same?
My point was more to show that was a huge exaggeration on the team Pep inherited and played with. You have listed Hart, Fernd x2 and a constantly injured CB in the good players Pep inherited.
Fernando never gets a game and was a shocking signing,
Kompany always injured.
Hart is an ok keeper with a huge flaw thats been ruthlessly exposed (in reality he's been terrible at City for 2 years, Torino for a year, and had a poor start at West Ham).
That team didn't down tools, we had a backline of cripples and old men. You guys underrate how poor we had become under Pellers. The way the squad Mancini and Cook built was replaced with journeymen. In reality we had a slightly stronger squad than you guys. Man for man going into last season City had KDB, Silva, Aguero, Sterling and Fernandinho who is borderline. United had DDG, Valencia, Herrera, Mata and dare I say Martial whose breakout season was easily a match for Sterling.
We both had alot of dead wood and are moving it on. We've also both bought well and spent stupid money.
Heres an example of City's failings and fall under Pelligrini (I'm not saying he is to blame but some has to be for this recruitment). Just look at the following under Pellers reign we spent hundreds of millions to do the following.
Mancini St - Aguero, Tevez, Dzeko, Balotelli (who craziness aside was good for us)
Pellegrini St - Aguero, Iheanacho, Bony
Mancini FB - Peak Zabs, a decent Micah Richards, Clichy and Kolarov in their peak years.
Pellers FB - Old Zabs, Old Kola, Old Clichy and Sagna..
Mancini CB - Kompany, Kolo Toure, Nastasic, Lescott.
Pellers - Kompany, Otamendi, Demechilis, Mangala
The only place we can argue we're stronger now despite all the money pissed away is Midfield and I'd go so far as to say Mancini's final midfield of Barry, Toure, Silva, Nasri and Milner was more balanced that anything we had under Pellers too...
The reasons for us expecting to win the league under Pelligrini is that yes we had a top squad, but it was only a top squad because of the struggles of you guys, Arsenal and Chelsea having blips here and there. We were slightly better than alot of other very average teams and Pellers only top team was the one he inherited from Mancini.
It was a slow erosion of a top squad with the likes of Mangala, Fernando, Bony's and Jesus Navas replacing the Savic (what a defender he's become), Barry, Dzeko and Milners.
Chelsea sorted their shit out with the return of Jose and the sudden emergence of Spurs have shown us for what we were. The best squad of a bunch of very average squads. I'll even say I overrated the squad a tad and Pep dropped a massive clanger with the fullbacks last season. During Pellers reign we wen't from a team who hadn't finished outside the top 2 in years to a team who fell over the line to qualify for the CL two years running.
Ok I'll bite, no there is no place for a 3rd place trophy but lets be honest here. The only reason you were in the Europa League was because you failed. Its hard to win something your not in and being even more honest and as arrogant and all as it sounds from a City fan. I never want to win it because its a B tier trophy, a great trophy for teams like West Ham, Southampton etc.. but being in it is an embarrassment and failure on a part of a squad costing what any of the top premiership squads have, particularly City, United or Chelsea.
Don't even try to compare it with the other trophies you have in your great history, its a joke in comparison and all it will do in future decades is remind you guys of how low Moyes and LVG took you. I have no doubt Jose will put you back at the top and you will all be like remember that time we won the Europa... hard times but the start of a rebuild.
Money two times in 2 positions, please expand, the only position he's replaced is goalkeeper and Bravo arrived for £16m which is pocket change in todays market. Statement my arse, you paid that money for Pogba because he's a great player and all great players cost money. You didn't overpay, you didn't break the world record to sign a name and please stop with the commerical shite,
Pogba was bought as a footballer. On last season alone he hasn't justified the fee but this season he is already starting to justify it and if he stays with you guys for many years it will turn out to be a cheap deal.
Any signings from City comparable to Pogba? Why would there be. We both needed different things, City needed youth, pace and an injection of legs and energy and we went and got them. United needed a couple of good midfielders and a centre forward and they got them too. Was the potential £90m for Lukaku a commercial deal too? or the £56m that Martial will eventually cost? Pull the other one and stop, They were players you needed for very big fee's, just like City have paid. Good players who cost good money (crazy money in the current market) but if they hit their targets will be worth it, if they don't they won't simple as. Pogba, like Lukaku or KDB or Sterling will be judged on what the team win or lose while he's there and that is how his value when people decide whether he's a flop or roaring success will see things.
City have a squad assembled for half a billion, you have a squad assembled for half a billion. Stop moving the goalposts to make out Jose is rebuilding West Ham. He has pretty much the same job on as Pep albeit the squads having different holes which is exactly why I was pointing out how silly the OP was by reversing names. It is just as silly of me or any City fan to make the same claims of Jose.
I honestly think Pep causes a lot of their deficiencies. Should Sane really been the player responsible with dealing that ball on the left hand touchline before Everton go on to score? Why spend £100m on left backs and then try and play Sane as a wing back?
I think Guardiola is too clever by half. Instead of just playing 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 he has decided to come in muck about. Ball playing goalies, inverted full backs going into midfield, wingers playing in odd positions, No.10s playing at the heart of midfield...
To me, Pep's got himself into the habit of needlessly overcomplicating to show how profound his footballing understanding is. What we've seen at City, and even at Bayern, is so far removed from the 4-3-3 he used at Barca. He's basically playing David Silva in the same position he used to play Xavi. How does that make any sense?
Yh I feel he's kind of backed himself into a corner with his whole 'I'd rather fail than adapt my philosophy' stance he took last year. Let's be fair, City looked better than Everton with 10 men but there were some odd decisions and definitely over complications that surely just leave some players a bit confused about what their role actually is. I'm not sure if he even knew where he wants players toward the end because he just kept doing those erratic hand signals really quickly, the one that looked like he was holding a frying pan in each hand flipping pancakes.
For what it's worth, Koeman (another Barca brown noser) made some strange subs as well. 1 man & 1 goal up against City away and he takes off a defender and brings on 2 creative slow attacking midfielders.... Should have kept their formation (which was working a treat) and just brought on a bit more pace for counter attacks.
Like we bought Lindelöf so Guardiola wouldn't have him at City?
Koeman adapted to Pep's change, which is understandable. While his initial formation worked a treat, Walker's red card and the subsequent withdrawal of Jesus meant that one of Everton's three defenders was marking hot air for 15 minutes, as City went 3-5-1 basically. Of course Pep reacted to this with a change to a back four himself a couple minutes later, and since they were pushing up so high and Everton were parking the bus on the goal line, City could get away with a midfield of De Bruyne picking the ball up deep with Sterling & the Silvas in front of him, flanked by a marauding Danilo on the right and Fernandinho on the left.
If we take a step back from the Pep bashing on here (and some general anti-intellectualism), the back 3 (or 5) has helped City to get additional protection against teams breaking quickly with balls over/in between the two centre backs in a regular back four. Of course, Sané is struggling immensely in the LWB position in Mendy's absence and Agüero/Jesus doesn't seem to work quite as well as expected, but I reckon Pep will try an additional midfielder in Jesus' place soon enough, maybe Bernardo who looked great in tight spaces or Sterling who arguably had the biggest impact from a central area yesterday.
@padr81 I think for everything you've said, the truth staring everyone in the face is that Pep is just mismanaging your resources. You look at City's squad and from that you could make a real attacking force capable of pinning teams back with pace and cleverness. Even if City wanted to leave out the little playmakers and just go direct you have the players to do that. Instead Pep's choosing to play 3-5-2 and expecting two midgets up front and midgets in midfield to pass teams to death. Its like he doesn't see that most sides will play you looking for a draw, sit back and hope they can get lucky on a counter. That's effectively what Everton did.
When I see City I can tell that that Pep was managed by Van Gaal. I see exactly the same traits, the same stubborness about his philosophy, the same baffling decisions about players' roles (although Pep hasn't quite got to Phil Jones taking corners).
Frankly, as a United fan, it delights me. Your board has been sold a dud by Soriano and Txiki of Barca 2 led by Pep. If they had been more pragmatic and given another manager the same players, City would be a dangerous team playing 4-2-3-1, with loads of pace, round pegs in round holes and beating teams handily. Instead, the quest to become Barca 2 has derailed any sensible strategy.
When I see City I can tell that that Pep was managed by Van Gaal. I see exactly the same traits, the same stubborness about his philosophy, the same baffling decisions about players' roles (although Pep hasn't quite got to Phil Jones taking corners).
Frankly, as a United fan, it delights me. Your board has been sold a dud by Soriano and Txiki of Barca 2 led by Pep. If they had been more pragmatic and given another manager the same players, City would be a dangerous team playing 4-2-3-1, with loads of pace, round pegs in round holes and beating teams handily. Instead, the quest to become Barca 2 has derailed any sensible strategy.
Good post my friend but I disagree, I actually think as frustrating and all as it is at times, we will always break teams down unlike LVG's United. Pep can't kick the ball in the goal. We had 3 or 4 guilt edged chances again last night. Silva hitting the post with the goal wide open, Kun mishitting one and Sterling putting a couple yards over. Pep's team will always score and it no coincedence in the premier league it comes later. Teams defend deep and press like Everton but we have so much ball we eventually create and put one away at least. It was inevitable against Brighton and again last night vs Everton as frustrating and all and Arsenal like as I called it during the match. The hell for leather, backs to the wall approach of the prem keeps us out for while but eventually teams tire and all our ball retention adds up and sees us finish strong.
People say we were better with 10 men against Everton but the reality was that was always how the game was going to play out regardless of the Walker red, eventually their bodies and minds were worn down and they couldn't press, mark or concentrate like in the first half, the goal came and we probably should have won.
The differences between our game and LVG's is its played further forward and with less defenders, when teams do tire we are in a position to attack when someone is out of place. LVG's United would continue to play in their own half and couldn't exploit it. Pep's City play much higher up and eventually those little through balls we play start getting through. It takes long for it to pay off in England as opposed to what it did in Spain and Germany but we aren't Barca or Bayern and we're up against more defensive football. Not every team will hang on or have Evertons luck. Pretty confident that with XI on the pitch we'd have got a second but Bobby Madley is gonna Bobby Madley.
Its no coincidence all our chances come in the twenty/last half hour while before that we are look incredibly toothless. Frustrating as hell at times especially when we concede a stupid one. Pellers had the same problems in his last season but unlike our Pep team, we were easier to score against and teams didn't tire towards the end.
I do agree that the 2 midgets don't really gel up front and I think we'll eventually move to 3-6-1 when Gundogan is fit. I'd also like to see us have an option like you guys of being more direct at times but I don't think that would have done us any good last night tbh... Williams and Jagielka would have a field day dealing with high balls even if we have Lukaku, Zlatan or Klose up front. What we really need Pep to do, is stop playing Sane as a wingback as that was the cause of us messing up last night. Round pegs in round holes always works better, had he started Danilo last night that goal would never have happened.
@1950 seems to have nailed my points in far less words than me lol.
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Whilst not a PL manager (or any type of manager apart from armchair) I would have just kept Williams free. Sat deep and soaked up pressure - City didn't manage to actually get through the middle much apart from Sterling's miss. Maybe that's the Mourinho in me but I reckon they could have ground out a 1-0
Danilo had a very good chance, sterling's miss you've noted, Silva hit the post in the first half and I'm sure city would have created one or two more golden chances regardless of Everton formation tbh.
I called it last year and it still hasn't changed. Play Aguero on his own and the goals dry up. Silva x 2, KDB, Sterling and maybe Sane are all 6/7 goals a season players.
When a chance falls to anyone but Aguero they tend to fluff it, that's down to poor squad management from Pep.
Thats why they'll continue to shoehorn Jesus into the side to play another finisher and even then he's not really a proven goalscorer.
A young Yaya and City are champions.
When a chance falls to anyone but Aguero they tend to fluff it, that's down to poor squad management from Pep.
Thats why they'll continue to shoehorn Jesus into the side to play another finisher and even then he's not really a proven goalscorer.
A young Yaya and City are champions.
Good post. I can honestly say that I didn't really appreciate how much work needed to be done at Citeh. Its clear both our squads needed a proper clear out and despite both of us spending significant amounts of money, I still think both teams have glaring deficiencies though; You need at least 1 CB, backup LB and 1 CDM, we need a LB and right winger.
I do think though that other than Lindelof (who cant really be judged) all of Jose signings have been of real quality; Bailly, Mky, Zlatan, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic. Whereas Pep has much more of a scatter gun approach and has signed some bang average players for massive amounts: Stones - 50m! Nolito - 18m, bravo - 18m, Danilo - 30m.
Having said that, its fair to say that both our teams are much better than the ones Pep and Jose inherited. The top teams in the league have significantly strengthened in the last few years and I'd expect that to be reflected in the Champions League this year too. Real Madrid are the standout team IMO but I do think our teams have closed the gap significantly against the rest.
Danilo's chance I forgot true. I'm sure there'd have been chances just not sure about 'golden chances'
@padr81 i honestly think you are under rating your squad Pep took over against ours Jose took over. Looking at your team as I said Hart was considered one of the best in the league and Europe at one point. Kompany Silva Ferdinho x2 even Toure would have gotten into our team (not Hart as DDG pisses over him) but then you guys had Silva Augero KDB and Sterling would have gotten a game for us imo. Pep I feel last years signings were poor apart from Sane and Jesus both who have added depth and brought done the age rather than upped your starting 11 quality at this stage.
If everyones weird, that means no ones weird.
Not really fair to say Lindelof can't be judged but Danilo can in the same paragraph is it?
Yes, I think you are right there, you could almost argue they've gone backwards as far as defending is concerned.
I thought City were much better balanced in Pellegrini's title season, than they are now. In fact the 'out of kilter' only affected them in his last season when even though they were still in with a ''shout' for four competitions, the City Executive announced mid-season Guardiola was taking over the following year.
Madness really! Oh I know they wheeled out Pellegrini to publicaly say he was OK with it, but the guy had no choice, it was tantamount to telling him, "Manuel even if you win four trophies, you are still gone!"
Could never really understand the logic in that announcement, at that time?
Agree with this. The criticism of Pep's three-man defense is unwarranted. It enables him to play Aguero plus Jesus, at least four midfielders and still be less prone to counters than last season.
As for Sane at LWB, the way I see it, his role there is similar to an attacking winger and very different to, say, Conte's wide players. In that sense, he's not really a 'wing-back'. Moreover, Pep played him because he knew Everton don't have a good enough right winger or, for that matter, a system of wingers.
It's all up to the Aguero-Jesus pair now. Pep doesn't usually play more than one forward and dropped Müller at times for more midfield control. So he's in uncharted territory here and if he feels it's not working, he'll drop one of them for a wide player.
The Barca/Dutch style of posession football doesn't work in the Premier League.
Louis Van Gaal wouldn't accept this and it resulted in the most tumescent football I can remember in a long time. Got him sacked.
Pep is trying the same thing Van Gaal did. Okay, Pep has better players than Van Gaal had and Pep will progress City in the ECL but he'll never win the Premier League.
Louis Van Gaal wouldn't accept this and it resulted in the most tumescent football I can remember in a long time. Got him sacked.
Pep is trying the same thing Van Gaal did. Okay, Pep has better players than Van Gaal had and Pep will progress City in the ECL but he'll never win the Premier League.
Pep is a fascinating character but I do worry that he may be veering slightly into 'manic depressive' tendencies with his 'proudest day of my life' quotes juxtaposed with a Hitchkockian eye for media conspiracy theories.
I like him and I like watching City - but watching any post-match TV interview with him is not pleasant - its downright uncomfortable, particularly if the points aren't in the bag.
I like him and I like watching City - but watching any post-match TV interview with him is not pleasant - its downright uncomfortable, particularly if the points aren't in the bag.
I think all Joses signings will indeed to turn out good but a few haven't quite lived up to their price tag. For Pep Nolito and Bravo were mistakes. Danilo looks about a £30m player in this market and I think he'll do well for us. Stones I'm curious on. He looked terrible last season but he had games where he actually looked decent. Was probably our best player against Liverpool for example. I'll give him this season to make up my mind. I think in general Pep's transfers have been ok. I don't think anyone could have predicted Bravo turning out how he did. Many on here said he would be the key to us regaining the title. Maybe we never really signed him and it was one of those ebay scams where we got a cardboard cut out. I think most our signings under Pep have been for the future which is why I find it strange he'll walk after 3 seasons like people think.
He needed energy and legs around the pitch to freshen up an old sluggish team and he's brought in Walker, Danilo, Sane, Gundogan (hopefully stays fit), and Jesus who all bring that.
His big problem and glaring mistake is obviously Bravo is old and won't adapt and not doing anything about the fullbacks.
I think he had a plan in mind though so I hope he'll see it out. Season 1 freshen up the attack with energetic players who will press and can keep the ball. Season 2 fullbacks, next season CB's and a holding midfielder as his hand was forced on Ederson after Bravo's failings.
I'd agree but both much more suited to our new managers this season. For all the defending I do of Pep he has no real excuse this year. He has essentially his team. The deadwood from Pellers era is gone or sitting doing nothing collecting a paycheck. Jose has bought brilliantly and you guys look a real Jose team now. There was times last year you looked it too and than fell away but you've slowly been gaining that Manchester United like swagger again. You no longer boot the ball long under pressure, you're still direct from back to front but it looks much more pleasing on the eye and structured than what we saw last season. You've also been ruthless in front of goal. We on the other hand have continued to fluff our lines like last season. Jesus and Aguero have already spurned more clear cut chances than most entire teams (4 so far).
Real are a different class indeed, their subs bench would probably get top 4 in the prem. Fwiw I think you'll do better in the CL than us because you won't throw away silly goals in the knockout stages.
It's clear that City plays to tire the opposition and will try to get winning goals in the last 25, 20mn. I do think that City's squad is much stronger than United, especially from a cohesion standpoint. They use 3 and 5 players in the defence and midfield, trying to divide the field in squares and play in between lines with at least 2 options each time for a pass. It's a good system. Just like Barcelona, teams that are going to press will have to make sure they don't allow a through pass that completely unbalances them. On the other side, when City is going to press, teams will have to "jump" their first wave of pressing and find their players quickly in order to bother City.
I'd be curious to know how Jose would approach such a City team, and if relying on pure physical power would be enough to match the intensity City is going to provide with the ball during the first 70 mn. After that, I am pretty certain that both Pep and Jose will try to sneak in a goal for the victory. I think in order for any team to have a chance with this City team though, the midfield, so in our case, Pogba, Matic and maybe Mkhitaryan or Herrera, will have to match their technical skills on the ball to protect it when it's required or move it quick.
I'd be curious to know how Jose would approach such a City team, and if relying on pure physical power would be enough to match the intensity City is going to provide with the ball during the first 70 mn. After that, I am pretty certain that both Pep and Jose will try to sneak in a goal for the victory. I think in order for any team to have a chance with this City team though, the midfield, so in our case, Pogba, Matic and maybe Mkhitaryan or Herrera, will have to match their technical skills on the ball to protect it when it's required or move it quick.
its lazy to compare him to LVG. City's main strength is all out attack and open at the back, complete opposite to what we endured. He insists on forward creativity