He's probably the foremost german tactical pervert around
Press, press and press some more. Hyperfast vertical footballThough from what i've seen he's pretty good at coaching build up patterns and can set up a decent low block(he did against us)
Marco Rose | OFFICIAL: Joining Dortmund at the end of the season
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Press, press and press some more. Hyperfast vertical footballThough from what i've seen he's pretty good at coaching build up patterns and can set up a decent low block(he did against us)
But but but I thought he was just another hipster manager??
Good read that
I've read a condensed version of that in a couple of publications but it underlines what I’ve felt since watching that attractive Salzburg side which had Haaland
He’s been a hipsters dream for 2/3 years
Hipster managers normally become hipster because they show some promise or are trying something different. Most are actually just good managers who haven't been lucky enough (and luck is probably the biggest factor) to be in a top club.
We'd never be brave enough or think a little outside the box enough to hire him.
I don’t know mate, some may have seen Ole as a bold appointment
Haaland didn't play much under him. Salzburg signed Haaland in January 2019 and Rose departed at the end of that season.
Your point being what exactly? He'd have made a strong commitment to United on the spot?
Project Ole has to go one for 5 more years till we can make a decision. He is building something special.
I just think a manager who knows he's good and on an upward trajectory and has ambition will be more persuaded by taking over at United following 4 unsuccessful managers than going over to Dortmund, which is not exactly a sideways move, but no immense step up. If we are talking about the dimension of the job, United dwarfs Dortmund. I think both Rose and Nagelsmann would be interested in the job.
Thanks i enjoyed reading that, we should definaltey be keeping an eye on him should he be open to a move.
The problem is that United lack the football intellect to spot something even this obvious so we will miss out and watch him turn at someone more organized and more ambitious than the parasites ruining our club.
It was impressive indeed and the main thing was that I enjoyed watching the game.
But Shakhtar will have to rethink their game plan for the second leg IMO because the way they setup was naive against Rose who understands high pressure football better than Zidane and Conte. And he transitioned play out of the press superbly and pushed his forwards right onto the Shakhtar back line which opened up the diagonals for the fullbacks and they got killed in transition.
Like Moyes, close to home choice. One was Scottish PL proven, the other was unproven but 'one of us'. We lack imagination with managerial hirings. It's either these ones or just the biggest name around.
I didn't say he was joining Dortmund, I said that both he and his dof didn't make a verbal commitment to him staying past this season when confronted with rumors.
And for what it's worth I wouldn't be surprised if United's troubles of the past would be a turn off rather than turn on for fresh coaches like Rose and Nagelsmann, who are used to working alongside a strong recruitment structure that built a cohesive squad for them and might associate United's lack thereof with a high risk to get burned early in their careers.
So far so good.
I've been following him since his Salzburg days. There, he impressed me a lot. His Salzburg team were beautiful to watch. However, I've held off on rating him as Schmidt 's Salzburg, for me, were even more pleasing to watch, and whilst he wasn't too bad at Leverkusen, he didn't make the step up.
It's looking like Rose might, which is great. He's one of three (the other two being Pochettino and Hasenhuttl) that have really impressed me in recent years.
I've been following him since his Salzburg days. There, he impressed me a lot. His Salzburg team were beautiful to watch. However, I've held off on rating him as Schmidt 's Salzburg, for me, were even more pleasing to watch, and whilst he wasn't too bad at Leverkusen, he didn't make the step up.
It's looking like Rose might, which is great. He's one of three (the other two being Pochettino and Hasenhuttl) that have really impressed me in recent years.
Who was only appointed because he was an ex player, if he wasn't he wouldn't have been hired, they wouldn't have considered him at all
Nah, not convinced by this. Liverpool’s recruitment structure and squad was far, far from anything special when Klopp took over and it’s reported that he helped to force changes in those aspects.
Also I think a coach confident enough in his own abilities will look at the players he would have in our squad (of a much higher quality than those he currently coaches) and believe he can do something substantial with them regardless of incoming transfers.
It may be a factor they consider, sure, but I’d be surprised if it was the thing that would lead them to reject the job.
Cheers for the feedback, appreciated.
Aye, that was some dicking to be taking at home alright! I'll definitely catch the highlights later.
One could argue that Rose is no longer an outside-the-box suggestion, as he is well and truly on the map — probably a tier or two below the established elite. The truly adventurous (or foolhardy if things go south) choice might be his mad assistant, who probably deserves his own Redcafe thread at some point...well, he kinda has one but it's dead: Link. Perhaps he's the real brains behind the tactical approaches, definitely a total analytics nerd and was authoring noteworthy stuff for amateurs even in his early 20s (which was incidentally how he got a coaching position at Salzburg)!
https://www.martiperarnau.com/thomas-tuchels-positional-play-at-bvb/
https://abseits.at/fusball-in-osterreich/sonstiges/oesterreichs-fussballerlegenden-1-ernst-ocwirk/
https://www.martiperarnau.com/diffe...opps-and-guardiolas-counterpressing-concepts/
https://spielverlagerung.com/
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The players that Rose and Nagelsmann are used to sign aren't difficult for United to get. Do you think United would have failed to close the Sancho deal if he cost £50m? And besides, in Rashford, Martial, Bruno, VDB, Maguire, AWB, Shaw, Telles, Tuanzebe and Greenwood we have the foundations of a good team that needs a couple of class additions to be competitive.
We no longer need a window where we have to sign five or six players and we have some exciting prospects coming through the academy. We are not in a bad place at all in terms of playing resources and the challenge of turning around this club could make someone a managerial legend, not to mention the pay package.
The major challenge with United is that we are reactive so someone will notice him, think Barca, City, Juve or Chelse, whilst we dither with the decision to sack Ole and by the time we finally come around to making a decision he/any other promising coach would have signed for someone else.
Aside from the fact that Klopp and Rose infact are different people, didn't he actually turn down an offer from United to stay with Dortmund?
You mention United's current squad like it's certainly a positive factor, but Rose seems to have very strong tactical principles, what if he feels Dr Gea is not commanding enough or Maguire too slow to play his high pressing? What if he feels like between Pogba and Bruno he won't have a balanced midfield? What if he fears United will sign further players that don't fit his principles?
Depending on how risk averse these guys are and what other offers they have on the table I wouldn't assume that they'll drop everything if United just give them a call.
I thought you said the response he gave was after being asked about Dortmund. May have misunderstood. Anyhow, you could be right that United's board and structure may put off managers. My view is different, both speculative of course, but I just see the poisoned chalice has been neutralised somewhat with four managers taking the sting out of the shadow of SAF. Moyes and van Gaal did atrocious jobs. Mourinho ended in tearing the place down, but he did win a couple of trophies. And Ole has moved some players on and will hopefully continue that in January, and now we have a very young squad that is mouldable by a manager who is competent. The hierarchy will be a problem for any incoming manager, and I would hope that when/if they are forced to sack Ole, they'll be pressured into professionalising the footballing side of things (wishful thinking I know).
In any case, I think a top manager would get a tune out of this United squad with minimal additions (and a few exits). The first manager who comes into the job post SAF and has United playing like a top club again will be idolised instantly.
No way we’ll hire Rose. We never make these kind of appointments.
Isn't the combination supposed to be the 'secret' here? I would expect Rose to insite that Maric can come along, wherever he is going next.
The things you are raising are discussed when the club is talking to the prospective manager. I am sure if any manager say they want Pogba and De Gea out before they come in it would be done.
The challenges you highlight in terms of recruitment are surmountable in my view. The thing is we don't know exactly what transpired re the Sancho chase; did Ole say its Sancho or bust or was Woodward not completely honest with Solskgear about the feasibility of this deal in this current environment.
At the end of the day it's still a big job, a once in a lifetime opportunity and the squad is not exactly down to bare bones as we have some seriously good players in there. From outside looking in another manager could look at the transfer budget and have different ideas like for example not buying Maguire and AWB at £130m or spending on Donny whilst Partey was in play.
You’re arguing things I haven’t said. I didn’t say they won’t have those concerns or that they’ll drop everything if we give them a call.
My point is that for a manager who’s ambitious and believes he’s good enough, I’d be surprised if he didn’t take the challenge and make it work. You can’t wait around for the perfect offer your whole career and no doubt other offers he would get would be less than perfect as well. At some point he’d have to make a choice and I don’t think someone who’s managed to get this far is going to let a bit of doubt like that deter him.
Real, Barca, PSG have massive question marks around them in terms of your point about recruitment structure, Italian clubs are player-laundering organisations, and it isn’t a guarantee he’d be attracted to the City project.
That would leave a very small amount of clubs he would consider going to given your point. If he thinks he can only work under German-style uber structures then he’ll have a pretty limited career. I doubt he thinks that though, thankfully.
He definitely would insist, yes — by all accounts they have a good working relationship. But as he edges toward the age of 30 (which seems more respectable), Marić might have head coaching ambitions of his own after serving as an assistant for a good few years now, and there might be appropriate opportunities at Mönchengladbach if Rose leaves, Leipzig if Nagelsmann leaves or even back in Austria with Salzburg — so United might not be able to appoint the combination in full, speculatively of course.
Not to mention that big jobs only ever open up when big teams underperforming - which usually happens when a team is in trouble and very few teams have a perfect structure. Liverpool wouldn't have looked at Klopp if Brendan Rodgers had been tearing the league up.
I wouldn't take it for granted that the guy from Gladbach would get a free hand in axing the squads top earners, not to mention that it might not even be possible in some cases.
You seem to argue that Rose would relish a hands on approach with transfers, but thus far he has always had someone else handle that aspect for him. Taking on that extra responsibility while moving to a new league, facing much greater pressure than he ever felt at Salzburg or Gladbach is a risk.
As far as once in a lifetime opportunities go, sure, some might see it like that. On the other hand Klopp turned down United in the past and Nagelsmann decided that he wasn't ready for the job when Real approached him.
I'm not saying everyone would dismiss an offer from United, but there are good reasons for and against it, so since I don't know either of them personally I have no idea how they personally would weigh up the arguments.
Maric on this matter earlier this year:He definitely would insist, yes — by all accounts they have a good working relationship. But as he edges toward the age of 30 (which seems more respectable), Marić might have head coaching ambitions of his own after serving as an assistant for a good few years now, and there might be appropriate opportunities at Mönchengladbach if Rose leaves, Leipzig if Nagelsmann leaves or even back in Austria with Salzburg — so United might not be able to appoint the combination in full, speculatively of course.
Those saying “we would never appoint these type coaches” - I understand where the notion comes from but iirc, wasn’t Rose (apparently) on a shortlist for United before we appointed Ole permanently? @Adnan
I mean....I guess I need some kind of hope to cling on to
I mean....I guess I need some kind of hope to cling on to
Neato! Cheers for that link, mate.
United know about him because the story about him being on the 5 man shortlist to replace Mourinho was by Neil Ashton who is a very well respected journo. The story below from January 2019.Those saying “we would never appoint these type coaches” - I understand where the notion comes from but iirc, wasn’t Rose (apparently) on a shortlist for United before we appointed Ole permanently? @Adnan
I mean....I guess I need some kind of hope to cling on to
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...anchester-united-manager-mauricio-pochettino/
We have given every manager in the post Fergie era the free hand to dispense with players he didn't like. Granted two of them were experienced pros with glittering CVs but virtually every managerial appointment after Moyes has been followed by a mini clear out.
What we were arguing about is the feeling that United are a poisoned chalice which a young manager wouldn't touch. I would say in discussions with the said manager our argument is strong; we have a young squad, three promising strikers and have a big transfer budget, certainly one of the biggest outside the ring of state and gangster owned clubs.
Obviously it is down to the individual and the confidence he has in his abilities and sometimes the lack of a DoF would be enticing to a manager because that would mean he has more power.
Thanks bro - giving me hope
Rene Maric was a blogger that used to write on a website about football tactics and it's reported his work was very impressive which led to him being asked by Marco Rose to work with him. But Maric has never played football professionally.
Klopp had Buvac with him as assistant and when he left people said that the brains behind Klopp had left which was not true because then without Buvac, Klopp won the Champions League and the Premier League.
Klopp had Buvac with him as assistant and when he left people said that the brains behind Klopp had left which was not true because then without Buvac, Klopp won the Champions League and the Premier League.