[Remember the geese]

Its funny because we are of 99.9% agreement in most these points.

Even my world class tag is a slightly less simplified version of yours. e.g. mine has 2 main requirements. For my selection, "this player would not look out of place in a hypothetical world XI." For example, he can play alongside that calibre of player but also isn't a big drop down from the comp in his position, which I guess is where we differ. So if it is 2014, if you draw Robben or Bale as your RWF, probably happy with either. If it is the 2000s and you draw either Henry, Raul, Sheva, RVP as CF you are good either way. If you draw as a CM:Kroos or Xavi or Scholes or Iniesta or Gerrard or Modric. If selected and AMC and you draw: Zidane/Kaka/Ronaldinho. That said, my selection also mean that being the best in your position does not necessarily make you world class due to the fact that you could be in an era where your position is relatively weak. Imagine if Lauren was considered the best RB of his era, I don't think his quality matches up to some of the players he would be playing alongside where as guys like Dani Alvez and Lahm (different eras) were clearly of that calibre, if that makes sense?

Interesting definition. With regards to your model, I suppose the difficulty Mbappe's competitors have is that they are all a reasonable drop down in quality for that left sided forward position. You could argue, 'Well if his rivals were truly World Class, then they wouldn't be significantly worse than him'. Which is fair enough. Alternatively, it could be said that Mbappe is in his own stratosphere beyond World Class and the likes of Vinicius Jnr, Rashford and the likes are 'merely' World Class.

 

[Fabio Rochemback]

23 goals and 7 assists in 35 games.
Caf avg. rating this season for him: 6.3

This place

He wasn't great at the start of the season for a few games tbf but yeah people on here go massively overboard with poor ratings if we don't win a game.

 

[Stacks]

Interesting definition. With regards to your model, I suppose the difficulty Mbappe's competitors have is that they are all a reasonable drop down in quality for that left sided forward position. You could argue, 'Well if his rivals were truly World Class, then they wouldn't be significantly worse than him'. Which is fair enough. Alternatively, it could be said that Mbappe is in his own stratosphere beyond World Class and the likes of Vinicius Jnr, Rashford and the likes are 'merely' World Class.

but in another era would that be the case? I see Mbappe as a forward who plays all across the frontline although Transfermarkt has him as a CF. So you compare him to guys like Eto'o, Henry, David Villa, Neymar even Messi, Rooney etc. The multi position forward so to speak. I don't think they drop drastically from Mbappe compare to the comp today.

 

[Remember the geese]

but in another era would that be the case? I see Mbappe as a forward who plays all across the frontline although Transfermarkt has him as a CF. So you compare him to guys like Eto'o, Henry, David Villa, Neymar even Messi, Rooney etc. The multi position forward so to speak. I don't think they drop drastically from Mbappe compare to the comp today.

It seems that it comes down to a case of positional ambiguity and how strict you want to be. If you wish to view Mbappe as purely a left sided forward, then you have a clear drop off to the next best. As a pure centre forward, then you could definitely argue that he isn't the best number 9 in the world. As an all round attacking force, then again, he's out on his own I'd suspect.

For what it's worth, I think Mbappe will most likely go down as a better player than all of those great attacking players of the recent past, bar Messi and Ronaldo. Though it will be interesting to see how large the chasm will be between some of those great players of the past that you listed and Rashford, when all is said and done.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

That. Or Mbappe.

Best player in the PL IMO. Just imagine this beast with a Kane along side

Osimhen and Rashford. We feast.

 

[Stacks]

It seems that it comes down to a case of positional ambiguity and how strict you want to be. If you wish to view Mbappe as purely a left sided forward, then you have a clear drop off to the next best. As a pure centre forward, then you could definitely argue that he isn't the best number 9 in the world. As an all round attacking force, then again, he's out on his own I'd suspect.

For what it's worth, I think Mbappe will most likely go down as a better player than all of those great attacking players of the recent past, bar Messi and Ronaldo. Though it will be interesting to see how large the chasm will be between some of those players of the past and Rashford when all is said and done.

I mean Rashford has ALOT of ground to cover if we are being honest. But he's still only 25

 

[Stacks]

That. Or Mbappe.

Best player in the PL IMO. Just imagine this beast with a Kane along side

why has he suddenly jumped above Haaland?

 

[Remember the geese]

I mean Rashford has ALOT of ground to cover if we are being honest. But he's still only 25

Agreed that Rashford has a lot of ground to cover on some of those greats of the past, but I suppose some greats were better than others. Maybe he can rival some of those on the lower end of the list

 

[Remember the geese]

why has he suddenly jumped above Haaland?

I'd imagine it's because Rashford is a better footballer in it's purest sense. A more rounded and versatile attacking threat, as opposed to the less stylistically respected 'monster predator' that Haaland is. The problem though is that whilst Rashford is productive, he doesn't come close to Haaland's levels. So is the trade off regarding productivity sufficient? Where is the line?

 

[Stacks]

I'd imagine it's because Rashford is a better footballer in it's purest sense. A more rounded and versatile attacking threat, as opposed to the less stylistically respected 'monster predator' that Haaland is. The problem though is that whilst Rashford is productive, he doesn't come close to Haaland's levels. So is the trade off regarding productivity sufficient? Where is the line?

I know what you mean. Its kinda reminds me of when Martial had his 2020 breakthrough season with some Caftards saying they would rather have Martial over Kane because there are things he can do that Kane couldn't but in reality that Martial productivity was equal to a meh Kane season, considering Kane has had seasons with 50 goal contributions or even a goal contribution per game.

 

[jackal&hyde]

why has he suddenly jumped above Haaland?

Who?

 

[Remember the geese]

I know what you mean. Its kinda reminds me of when Martial had his 2020 breakthrough season with some Caftards saying they would rather have Martial over Kane because there are things he can do that Kane couldn't but in reality that Martial productivity was equal to a meh Kane season, considering Kane has had seasons with 50 goal contributions or even a goal contribution per game.

Yeah, same argument really. I remember the old Van Nistelrooy vs Henry debates from back in the day. The difference though was that they were both scoring at a fairly similar rate during their peak, as opposed to an underperforming Kane season or the current Rashford in comparison to Haaland. Therefore the more talented and aesthetically appealing footballer won out.

 

[Doracle]

Its funny because we are of 99.9% agreement in most these points.

Even my world class tag is a slightly less simplified version of yours. e.g. mine has 2 main requirements. For my selection, "this player would not look out of place in a hypothetical world XI." For example, he can play alongside that calibre of player but also isn't a big drop down from the comp in his position, which I guess is where we differ. So if it is 2014, if you draw Robben or Bale as your RWF, probably happy with either. If it is the 2000s and you draw either Henry, Raul, Sheva, RVP as CF you are good either way. If you draw as a CM:Kroos or Xavi or Scholes or Iniesta or Gerrard or Modric. If selected and AMC and you draw: Zidane/Kaka/Ronaldinho. That said, my selection also mean that being the best in your position does not necessarily make you world class due to the fact that you could be in an era where your position is relatively weak. Imagine if Lauren was considered the best RB of his era, I don't think his quality matches up to some of the players he would be playing alongside where as guys like Dani Alvez and Lahm (different eras) were clearly of that calibre, if that makes sense?

World class is always subjective but I’ve got to take a bit of issue with the bit in bold. What you are saying here is that you can be the best player alive on the entire planet in your position but you might not be world class? That simply can’t be correct. I’d probably class what you are describing there as whether someone will go down as a legendary player, significantly above just world class.

My own definition of world class is probably closer to being somewhere in the top 5 or so players in your position currently. That means overall about 50-75 or so world class players across all positions. Son, Mane etc would most definitely be world class in my view (well Son at least until he fell off a cliff this season).

 

[jem]

But he is part of the team, and he has not performed well in the semis or finals. And even today, his decision making was bad when he could have slipped in weghorst or garnacho.
I don’t think we can win the major trophies with him in the team

And to think I was just recently having a go at people using the term ‘hater’…

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's just because he's been streaky. He had some very good games, but was mostly average from the summer until the World Cup, but has been absolutely shit hot since.

He scored a brace to beat Arsenal and a winner versus Liverpool, scoring 8 goals in total leading up to the WC.
Shows how fecking good he is if that’s “average”.

 

[V.O.]

He scored a brace to beat Arsenal and a winner versus Liverpool, scoring 8 goals in total leading up to the WC.
Shows how fecking good he is if that’s “average”.

Well yeah, that's why I said he had some very good games immediately before the bit you've cherry picked. And yes, 4 league goals in half a season (and a few more in cup games against teams from Cyprus and the Championship) was pretty average.

He's obviously having an absolutely storming season overall, my comment was about the bias in the rating system we have, and I'm not trying to downplay how brilliant he's been. It's just that in the rating system, a lot of nothing games at the start of the season count against him as much as all the games he's won for us in the past few months count in his favour (which is obviously daft). So, that averages out to 'just' 6.3 whereas if you're just giving a straight up rating for his season so far, I doubt many would give him less than 8/10.

 

[Eli Zee]

In-form Marcus is world class... I have to say it.
If he can maintain this level of consistency for a few seasons, i will consider regular Marcus world class.

 

[DRJosh]

I wonder how far the drop in performance and win ratio will be when Rashford sustains that inevitable injury from having played too many games

 

[NoPace]

Has there been another player that looked like how Rashford did last season and transform into one of the best players in the world? His transformation is unreal.

This was his realistic best-case scenario for most of his career here, he just had a brutal year. But everyone knew he was a goal-scoring LW/9 who could add power to his speed in his mid-20s.

Becoming a top 5 attacker in the world around aged 24-25 as many of this generation's top guys like Cristiano and Messi (2 full generations they were top 2 for), Benzema Lewandowski, Kane and Neymar age out was probably his expected result.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I wonder how far the drop in performance and win ratio will be when Rashford sustains that inevitable injury from having played too many games

I don't think it'll be that bad. He plays in arguably our most stacked position.

 

[roonster09]

I don't think it'll be that bad. He plays in arguably our most stacked position.

None of them makes the runs like Rashford. Any our attacker ends up in 1v1 with keeper apart from him? Now and then it's Bruno but most of the 1v1s are created by Rashford's runs.

 

[kouroux]

Why is he not getting the media recognition and hype like Mr Haaland? Man's on fire. Love to see it.

No need for it. If he keeps it up, in due time he will.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well yeah, that's why I said he had some very good games immediately before the bit you've cherry picked. And yes, 4 league goals in half a season (and a few more in cup games against teams from Cyprus and the Championship) was pretty average.

13 games, 2 of them the full team horror shows in the first two games he could do nothing about, isn’t exactly half a season though.
I give everyone a free pass for the shit show first two, so 4 league goals in 11 games, 2 against the league’s form side (Arsenal) and 1 against Liverpool isn’t too shabby at all. I was debating with a bloke who called him a “dosser” in the end of November that he was looking in great form, goals aren’t everything after all.
I thought he was looking in very good form leading into the WC, looked class in the ridiculous few WC minutes he received and then has gone from strength to strength post WC. His form has been building all season as the team itself also improved.

 

[Desert Eagle]

None of them makes the runs like Rashford. Any our attacker ends up in 1v1 with keeper apart from him? Now and then it's Bruno but most of the 1v1s are created by Rashford's runs.

I think Garnacho has been quite good at making runs in behind and getting shots off with the caveat that it's been mostly as a sub. I don't think we can replace his explosiveness and current finishing but i think we'd still get joy down that left flank.

 

[Jeffthered]

I hear ya. but Salah in EPL G has hit 32, 22, 19, 22, 23. I have NEVER called Son World class or one of the best in the world. Not once. Interestingly enough I you search "Mane world class" you may struggle to see a post from me in the cafe because where as I think he is very useful, I don't see him as meeting my criteria for that. So you can see my judgement of world class is very high.

Just for clarification Rashford highest premier league total is 17. I don't even know why 20 is the magic number but hey! Raheem Sterling has hit 17 or more on 3 occasions. Vardy has had 4 seasons of 18+ EPL goals. Rashford has also spent time as our main CF this season which has helped. Rashford CL record isn't the best. He has had campaigns of 3 goals, 2 goals, 6 goals (pretty good) and 1 goal.

I think the messages are getting mixed up. I am not saying he isn't a top player. people have just been going overboard calling him the best in the world and world class which I feel is premature and he doesn't have the resume to have earned that. He is on red hot form but we have seen players do this before. Mbappe is in that world class category and I don't think current Rashy has done enough to be talked about in the same bracket (whether or not he is as good as Mbappe or not is beside the point). I don't just say this about Rashford. You will see I consistently pull people up about their flagrant usage of the world class tag, even for some very good players!

Excellent post.

 

[Idxomer]

None of them makes the runs like Rashford. Any our attacker ends up in 1v1 with keeper apart from him? Now and then it's Bruno but most of the 1v1s are created by Rashford's runs.

I would expect Garnacho to be the one with the most 1v1 with the keeper after Rashford, per 90 min anyway.

 

[Lee565]

With every passing game the guy is making southgate look even more of the out of depth manager that he is by snubbing him from starting in a majority of England's world cup games.

At this rate by the end of the season rashford will be the most complete attacking player in the premier league

 

[Stacks]

World class is always subjective but I’ve got to take a bit of issue with the bit in bold. What you are saying here is that you can be the best player alive on the entire planet in your position but you might not be world class? That simply can’t be correct. I’d probably class what you are describing there as whether someone will go down as a legendary player, significantly above just world class.

My own definition of world class is probably closer to being somewhere in the top 5 or so players in your position currently. That means overall about 50-75 or so world class players across all positions. Son, Mane etc would most definitely be world class in my view (well Son at least until he fell off a cliff this season).

I hear what you are saying but I stand on it. There does not have to be a world class player in every position in the world simply for the sake of it. Different generations produce higher or lower grade players in specific positions. Look today, who are the best left backs in the world and do you regard many of them world class? (Hint consider the standard of the Left backs in the past). Some might see Luke Shaw as world class but for me he is far too inconsistent over a multi season sample size. He is playing mint now though. Andy Robertson was previously considered world class by some as was Trent but I look at dudes from my era like Zambrotta, Dani Alvez, Lahm, Zanetti, Maicon etc and I think the players today are not balanced enough. Who would you say are world class full backs of today?

 

[The Mitcher]

Why is he not getting the media recognition and hype like Mr Haaland? Man's on fire. Love to see it.

Feck the media, they are irrelevent.

 

[Reditus]

At the top it says 23 goals. But I’m nearly sure it’s 22 goals?

 

[Olecurls99]

At the top it says 23 goals. But I’m nearly sure it’s 22 goals?

I just noticed that. Thanks

How the hell is his average rating 6.3?

I reckon people who have him lower than 7 should have a long hard look at themselves.

I've got 7.5 and that seems about right.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I just noticed that. Thanks

How the hell is his average rating 6.3?

I reckon people who have him lower than 7 should have a long hard look at themselves.

I've got 7.5 and that seems about right.

A large section of this forum had an agenda against him last season and wanted him out of the club. He was one of the most common players listed in a ‘most hated players’ thread. Imagine that, a local lad with the impact he’d made on the community, simply because he had one bad season when everyone was playing shite. So it took a long time for some posters to even acknowledge he was playing well this season and admit they were wrong. You still had people saying he wasn’t good enough up to the World Cup time. I believe that’s the reason for his low rating.

 

[Mr PG]

Anybody else frustrated with Marcus passing? Twice at the nou camp he could have played in Weghorst then a little later Garnacho but he dwelt on the ball for too long and once shot wildly and second time passed to Wan Bissaka when other options were already gone

 

[Zlatanator]

It's time to score a brace.

 

[Rolaholic]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[slored1]

Best player in the world.

 

[Lecland07]

16 goals & 4 assists in 17 games since the world cup.

 

[December_16]

Up next: a hattrick against Barcelona and Newcastle!

 

[charlenefan]

Some of you cnuts don't deserve him

 

[Swiss_Red89]

He gives me Ronaldo 07/08 vibes.