Marko Arnautović | United have pulled out

[BAMSOLA]

Rashford has done much much more than Isak in his career, and is simply a better player, so I’ve no idea why anyone thinks Isak would’ve been perfect. Neither fit the real mould of a ETH forward in fairness.

Rashford is a completely different style of forward to Isak so I'm not sure why the strong comparison as I would expect both to be able to play together with Rashford playing off the left and don't see Rashford as a natural Central striker despite him currently playing there (Martial is far better suited to that position so it will be interesting to look again at the starting lineup once he is fit.)

The simple fact is that Rashford isn't anywhere near good enough with his back to goal, nor does he pose much of an aerial or physical threat whilst Isak offers vastly superior ability in all of those areas. It's also worth noting that Isak is two years younger and whilst Rashford has as you say done much more with his career so far that doesn't make him necessarily the better player.

Rashford has had the good fortune in many respects of being brought up within the youth system of one of the biggest clubs in world football, Isak by comparison started out at AIK in his native Sweden and so was always destined to move abroad at some stage and yes he moved to Dormund and struggled but there is nothing to say a 17/18 year old Rashford wouldn't have struggled in the same circumstances, perhaps even more so given how protected he has been within his hometown club especially during long periods where he lacked form.

The fact that Rashford has been a regular starter for us throughout most of his time here says more about the lack of competition for places than it does about his actual quality of output, the fact also is that Isak has had the harder path to the top and for me if you are comparing both in Isak's natural position as centre forwards then there is no comparison Isak is the superior player in that position.

As for neither fitting the type of striker EtH normally goes for I think this is also wrong as I don't think he actually has a concrete preferred type, he has shown enough flexibility during his time at Ajax to use a wide range of central strikers ranging from Tadic to Huntelaar and Haller so given the profile of what we were looking for in Arnautovic its fitting to mention Isak as both of those players have been compared to Ibrahimovic so clearly there is a link in playing style between the two.

 

[londonredmaniac]

The Express linked us to Mbappe again last week. However, a bit like Madrid with Mbappe last year, or us with FDJ, not sure it is good to rely on one player coming, and be left without an alternative.

Apart from a couple of obvious gaps, our first team is starting to take shape. Now ETH needs to think carefully how he will build squad depth whilst keeping everyone happy. It is a matter of bringing in players with the right mentality, and having the right blend of youth and experience, etc. The issue with players like Mbappe is that they will want a guaranteed starting position, even if they are off form. Ferguson was able to rotate Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Solskjaer the year we won the treble. Will Rashford, Sancho, Antony, Martial, Nkunku and Mbappe accept rotation???

That's quite a big jump though...we have gone from finishing 6th, playing god awful football to theoretically winning the league and European Cup?

It's not impossible....it's highly unlikely mind you.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Haller so given the profile of what we were looking for in Arnautovic its fitting to mention Isak as both of those players have been compared to Ibrahimovic so clearly there is a link in playing style between the two.

feck me, here’s someone who’s barely watched Isak.

The only thing he and Zlatan have in common, is that they live in the same country as me and play as a forward.

All of the questions marks you have over Rashford apply to Isak.

 

[BAMSOLA]

feck me, here’s someone who’s barely watched Isak.

The only thing he and Zlatan have in common, is that they live in the same country as me and play as a forward.

All of the questions marks you have over Rashford apply to Isak.

Nonsense, I've watched enough of Isak to be able to see overlaps in their skillsets without believing them to be near identical in terms of playing style.

As for your second point I have to call bs again, career wise Rashford has never been tested mentally in anyway near the same way Isak has as we've no idea how he would cope outside of the protective system of a big club (especially one which protects youth team players as much as United do).

As for my criticism of Rashford as a centre forward I think if you seriously believe Isak has the same question Mark's in that position that Rashford has then clearly not only has one of us not seen one of the players in question play but one of us might not have seen both of the players in question play (for the sake of any further confusion that someone is you).

Happy trails though.

 

[Red Pumpkin]

feck me, here’s someone who’s barely watched Isak.

The only thing he and Zlatan have in common, is that they live in the same country as me and play as a forward.

They do have some similarities if you compare Isak 22 yr old to Zlatan 22 yr old. Gangly, rather poor physical game in spite of their frames, under achieving when it comes to headers. But post Juventus where Zlatan gained 15 kg is another animal. And he really hit his prime at Ac Milan 29 yr old.

Nonsense, I've watched enough of Isak to be able to see overlaps in their skillsets without believing them to be near identical in terms of playing style.

As I wrote above, only if you compare 20-24 yr Zlatan to Isak. Otherwise Isak plays more like Kanu, another gangly fellow but who unlike Zlatan never developed his physical game.

 

[BAMSOLA]

As I wrote above, only if you compare 20-24 yr Zlatan to Isak. Otherwise Isak plays more like Kanu, another gangly fellow but who unlike Zlatan never developed his physical game.

While I would agree with your broad statement that there are similarities between the three strikers mentioned (Isak, Kanu and Zlatan also with varying degrees of difference between the way they play) and also that Isak is more comparable currently to a younger Zlatan or kanu I think we'll have to agree to disagree about the lack of physical game of all of those strikers (including a younger Zlatan who always for me had a decent rather than poor physical and aerial game which I think simply went to new heights at Milan/Juve).

I also think Isak will find it easier than both kanu and Zlatan found it back in their day to impose himself physically due to football being a marginally less physical game than it was back in their heyday, however I think we'll have to leave this for another thread as this is more to discuss Arnautovic than those guys.

 

[711]

I'm not painting it as ideal. But it's clear in the summer we spent a massive amount of money on certain priority positions. A striker was either unaffordable or unattainable due to lack of quality, younger options. That was the whole point of Arnautovic, I believe. Another stop gap, which is frustrating as we all want to see a proper 9 of the right age come in, but that was never happening.

I don't think he was going to be a saviour. Just someone to hold the ball, allow Sancho and Anthony to get close, while still having the physicality to compete in the PL. With the combination of Rashford and Ronaldo we lack this, we only have an old poacher or a counter attacking player. Maybe Martial can give us something but he's very flakey isn't he. The manager was probably worried about that.

Yeah, I'm normally the first to say 'don't sign old players' but hats off, it looks as if EtH knew what he was doing alright.

 

[croadyman]

Yeah, I'm normally the first to say 'don't sign old players' but hats off, it looks as if EtH knew what he was doing alright.

Wasn't the age thing that put fans off it's the whole racist stuff from last years euros

 

[711]

Wasn't the age thing that put fans off it's the whole racist stuff from last years euros

Nah, I doubt the average fan in Manchester is aware of that, it's barely mentioned even on Wiki. Very few would be interested in taking sides between serbs and albanians, or whatever they are. Sorry if that's disappointing but it's not surprising if you think about it.

They do remember him from Stoke and West Ham, where he didn't appear to be 'United Quality', and they do know how old he is, which mattered particularly as he would be an addition to the ageing Ronaldo. Looking back a swap would have been nice.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Nah, I doubt the average fan in Manchester is aware of that, it's barely mentioned even on Wiki. Very few would be interested in taking sides between serbs and albanians, or whatever they are. Sorry if that's disappointing but it's not surprising if you think about it.

They do remember him from Stoke and West Ham, where he didn't appear to be 'United Quality', and they do know how old he is, which mattered particularly as he would be an addition to the ageing Ronaldo. Looking back a swap would have been nice.

This and just to add one more thing, ETH wanted Sesko, so Arnautović looked and felt like bit of delayed afterthought.

 

[redcucumber]

Nah, I doubt the average fan in Manchester is aware of that, it's barely mentioned even on Wiki. Very few would be interested in taking sides between serbs and albanians, or whatever they are. Sorry if that's disappointing but it's not surprising if you think about it.

They do remember him from Stoke and West Ham, where he didn't appear to be 'United Quality', and they do know how old he is, which mattered particularly as he would be an addition to the ageing Ronaldo. Looking back a swap would have been nice.

Ey? Were you on the internet when the rumours surfaced? Redcafe, Twitter, Facebook etc. was absolutely chock-a-block full of people up in arms about Arnautovic due to the racism shit.

 

[redcucumber]

This and just to add one more thing, ETH wanted Sesko, so Arnautović looked and felt like bit of delayed afterthought.

That's nonsense. The racism issue was massively significant.

 

[Van Piorsing]

That's nonsense. The racism issue was massively significant.

Main argument of people wanting Arnautović is his current form in Serie A which is quite good atm. I'm responding directly to this argument.

Racist or not, there are reasons why he shouldn't play for United in purely football sense.

 

[Sylar]

We need to stop getting stop gap strikers that we sign for two years, get a decent first season out of and then are stuck with in the second season. Zlatan worked but his injury ruined it in the second season.
Lukaku I assume was meant to be long term, but became an issue second season.
Cavani another short term where his first season was good and second season an issue
And now Ronaldo.
Arnautovic would probably be the same (if we take out the obvious reasons we shouldnt get him)

We have so much time before the next window that we should be able to find a better target than him, or griezman or a few of the others weve been linked with.

 

[arnoldS]

As a austrian I really love Marko but no way I want to see him at united. He is an extremely frustrating player and most of you guys would go balistic on him for his body language. He moans all the time and appears to be extremely lazy even though he isn't.

In front of the goal he is frustrating as well as he often misses 100% chances. He can also be incredible on his day but he is surely not what united needs right now. But this whole "racism" drama gets blown way out of proportion.

 

[SungSam7]

We need to stop getting stop gap strikers that we sign for two years, get a decent first season out of and then are stuck with in the second season. Zlatan worked but his injury ruined it in the second season.
Lukaku I assume was meant to be long term, but became an issue second season.
Cavani another short term where his first season was good and second season an issue
And now Ronaldo.
Arnautovic would probably be the same (if we take out the obvious reasons we shouldnt get him)

We have so much time before the next window that we should be able to find a better target than him, or griezman or a few of the others weve been linked with.

We are ok with stop gap if they are backup, but only if their wages are reasonable for a back up. No point giving a guy over 500k a week though for 2 years!

 

[Sylar]

We are ok with stop gap if they are backup, but only if their wages are reasonable for a back up. No point giving a guy over 500k a week though for 2 years!

Weve been going stop gap route since 2016. I know we will continue doing this as its the cheap way of doing it, but it wont address what we need long term.

 

[SungSam7]

Weve been going stop gap route since 2016. I know we will continue doing this as its the cheap way of doing it, but it wont address what we need long term.

I get what you're saying, it must stop. But the point I am making that signing someone like Ighalo is fine, as long as he is signed as a back up incase of an injury crisis rather than signing past their sell by date players on crazy wages.

These crazy wages give the Glazers excuses that they have spent a lot on improving the team when we really haven't.

Stop gaps on starting players in my opinion should only be done if there really isn't anyone who can do the same job needed for the role. Stop gaps can be useful but the club has literally taken this to new and horrible heights.

 

[Golden Nugget]

Weve been going stop gap route since 2016. I know we will continue doing this as its the cheap way of doing it, but it wont address what we need long term.

I guess the initial plans were to have stop gaps until one of our 3 promising attackers at the time were still developing - and let’s be honest at times, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood looked like they had very promising careers ahead of them.

I agree with you that there needs to be an end to it as they simply haven’t fulfilled their potential for one reason or another

 

[elmo]

I get what you're saying, it must stop. But the point I am making that signing someone like Ighalo is fine, as long as he is signed as a back up incase of an injury crisis rather than signing past their sell by date players on crazy wages.

These crazy wages give the Glazers excuses that they have spent a lot on improving the team when we really haven't.

Stop gaps on starting players in my opinion should only be done if there really isn't anyone who can do the same job needed for the role. Stop gaps can be useful but the club has literally taken this to new and horrible heights.

That’s on the clowns they have running the club, not them. The fact that we have such a high wage bill despite an underwhelming squad for the majority of the past decade shows how badly the club is ran.

The only person that is held accountable at the club is the manager and it’s shocking when our problems run much deeper.

 

[SungSam7]

That’s on the clowns they have running the club, not them. The fact that we have such a high wage bill despite an underwhelming squad for the majority of the past decade shows how badly the club is ran.

The only person that is held accountable at the club is the manager and it’s shocking when our problems run much deeper.

The Glazers have hired the clowns though, how long have we suffered to the hands of Ed Woodward. The manager can't sack him, the Glazers have that power.