Martial / joined Sevilla on loan

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GlasgowCeltic said:
He'll no longer be the first name that comes up as a "player you've never seen play well"... his work here is done
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Did this not happen? https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/...-voted-players-player-of-the-year-for-2019-20

Or this?https://www.espn.co.uk/football/man...er-anthony-martial-wins-2015-golden-boy-award

I know Martial has been public enemy number 1 (or 2, maybe Lingard is ahead. Not sure where that leaves Pogba, maybe 3rd?) for about a year and a half with Man Utd fans, but to blindly pretend ‘you’ve never seen play well’ is just pretty fecking silly
 
DWelbz19 said:
Did this not happen? https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/...-voted-players-player-of-the-year-for-2019-20

Or this?https://www.espn.co.uk/football/man...er-anthony-martial-wins-2015-golden-boy-award

I know Martial has been public enemy number 1 (or 2, maybe Lingard is ahead. Not sure where that leaves Pogba, maybe 3rd?) for about a year and a half with Man Utd fans, but to blindly pretend ‘you’ve never seen play well’ is just pretty fecking silly
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Yup, the hyperbole in some threads on here is insane :lol:
 
DWelbz19 said:
Did this not happen? https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/...-voted-players-player-of-the-year-for-2019-20

Or this?https://www.espn.co.uk/football/man...er-anthony-martial-wins-2015-golden-boy-award

I know Martial has been public enemy number 1 (or 2, maybe Lingard is ahead. Not sure where that leaves Pogba, maybe 3rd?) for about a year and a half with Man Utd fans, but to blindly pretend ‘you’ve never seen play well’ is just pretty fecking silly
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Posted in the wrong topic, was meant for Cavani
 
roonster09 said:
No use. I have probably said this 100 times but people prefer to be lazy when it comes to wages. I repeated this one and also how journalists report wages differently(for different clubs), which gives impression that other clubs pay peanuts when that's not the case. They report base wages for one club and total wages including all possible bonuses for other which paints 2 completely different pictures but still they are used in 1v1 comparision.
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Fair enough, I guess 250k it is!
 
VanDeBank said:
Off the top of my head: Guus Til took a massive paycut to go on loan from Spartak to Feyenoord. He didn't renew shit.

So I stopped reading after the bolded. I'm not going to read that wall of shite when the first 2 lines are blatantly untrue. You don't know what you're talking about. There's probably an insulting line in there how I'm delusional and part of Martial FC, is there not?
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Absolutely not actually but of course you stopped reading, the post made too much sense and pointed out exactly how clueless you are. Don't bother replying, I won't read it.
 
Jireh said:
I have a feeling he is going to cross over to Spain, perform well and help his team win a trophy or 2 or even 3. He is a team player that many managers would love. Pep recently was also after him.

I also have a feeling that the individuals that will remain who are so driven by individualistic stats (CR7, Rashford, Bruno, Greenwood) will fail to not only win a trophy but also will fail to qualify for the CL this season and the next.

It’s at that point that it will sink in for many that the foundation required for the success of the team is broken — it will take more than individuals to fix this.
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Yeah, that individual Ronaldo’s trophy cabinet is a disgrace in comparison to team player Martial’s. 7 league titles and 5 Champions Leagues are nothing compared to that Europa League win Martial watched from the bench.
 
VanDeBank said:
Sanchez earned double his salary mate and refused to move. DOUBLE. In no way is this the same situation.

Martial earns half that and wants to move and seems to indicate he wants to play which makes it's easier to shift him in a way that wont cost us.

I was debating a similar situation regarding Griezmann last summer. No one would buy him, Barca is fecked, etc. Then when someone took him, absolute crickets.

Stop pretending like Martial is utter shit and he'd have to do a Lingard for people to draw interest. Martial had a good 19/20 season and last season was what 7 goals, 10 assists with missing the last 3 months due to injury?

I don't rate the fecker but if he wants to move to play football, clubs will take him. If it's a loan, it'll probably be a conditional buy.



Off the top of my head: Guus Til took a massive paycut to go on loan from Spartak to Feyenoord. He didn't renew shit.

So I stopped reading after the bolded. I'm not going to read that wall of shite when the first 2 lines are blatantly untrue. You don't know what you're talking about. There's probably an insulting line in there how I'm delusional and part of Martial FC, is there not?


You're wrong. See above.
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What has Griezmann got to do with anything? You aren't happy with Sanchez who actually played for us but you're happy with this comparison? A pointless comparison to go into. I'm not really aware of the ins and outs of that deal and I'm not particularly interested to find out as it doesn't seem instructive beyond whatever point scoring episode that took place between you and someone on here. Seems more like an excuse to get in some kind of boast!

Of course a club will take him. Just not on fantastic terms for us. It's not about whether he is shit, it is that his performances have been shit for going on a couple years and he's not paid like Dan James, he's paid like many clubs top earners. Before that we can't refer back to a stable baseline of form either, he is an inconsistent player with a questionable work ethic.

These things all contribute to our relatively ugly negotiating position. Also it's quite instructive to see that Sevilla are his first choice. If that's the kind of club that will be gunning for him then it's not going to be a surprise to me if we have to pay some of his salary for a loan, hopefully not...or that the fee isn't too impressive. That is just common sense.

We've seen articles for a long time now about us being open to letting Martial go. Either they were all false or the terms are difficult.
 
Abraxas said:
What has Griezmann got to do with anything? You aren't happy with Sanchez who actually played for us but you're happy with this comparison? A pointless comparison to go into. I'm not really aware of the ins and outs of that deal and I'm not particularly interested to find out as it doesn't seem instructive beyond whatever point scoring episode that took place between you and someone on here. Seems more like an excuse to get in some kind of boast!

Of course a club will take him. Just not on fantastic terms for us. It's not about whether he is shit, it is that his performances have been shit for going on a couple years and he's not paid like Dan James, he's paid like many clubs top earners. Before that we can't refer back to a stable baseline of form either, he is an inconsistent player with a questionable work ethic.

These things all contribute to our relatively ugly negotiating position. Also it's quite instructive to see that Sevilla are his first choice. If that's the kind of club that will be gunning for him then it's not going to be a surprise to me if we have to pay some of his salary for a loan, hopefully not...or that the fee isn't too impressive. That is just common sense.

We've seen articles for a long time now about us being open to letting Martial go. Either they were all false or the terms are difficult.
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Griezmann and Martial are both slightly overpaid for what they offer.

Sanchez's salary was on a whole 'nother level. Basically Griezman's levels of pay without any of the class as a player.

His situation was different, because he didn't want to leave and money was all he cared about.

Martial wouldn't have been trying to severe his ties with us if money was the only thing that mattered to him. He'd quietly sit on the bench collecting his pay check.
 
We should not send him on loan unless there is an obligation to buy I think
 
acnumber9 said:
Yeah, that individual Ronaldo’s trophy cabinet is a disgrace in comparison to team player Martial’s. 7 league titles and 5 Champions Leagues are nothing compared to that Europa League win Martial watched from the bench.
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This is derailing the thread, but out of courtesy, I will reply.
You cannot compare Ronaldo to Martial - one is a legend and an all time great, the other is just Martial, but making CR7 out to be a team player is deception. He is a winner, not a team player.

Team players like Rooney and Benzema have been some of his sacrificial lambs for his glory. Don't be surprised when he jumps ship as soon as we fail to qualify for CL, which will just leave us in a chain reaction of more failing in the subsequent season.

I am yet to ever see Ronaldo put the team ahead of himself. He gives 100% in training and application that he does not tolerate individual failure. In case of failure, he usually perceives it as the team/manager/team mates failing him and therefore visibly moans or throws disrespectful tantrums for broadcast. He is one of the greatest, if not the greatest to ever play the game but far from being a team player.
 
Jireh said:
I have a feeling he is going to cross over to Spain, perform well and help his team win a trophy or 2 or even 3. He is a team player that many managers would love. Pep recently was also after him.

I also have a feeling that the individuals that will remain who are so driven by individualistic stats (CR7, Rashford, Bruno, Greenwood) will fail to not only win a trophy but also will fail to qualify for the CL this season and the next.

It’s at that point that it will sink in for many that the foundation required for the success of the team is broken — it will take more than individuals to fix this.
Click to expand...


I think he's the exact opposite, he'd be a player who would frustrate managers. He has ability but doesn't deliver it consistently enough and in a modern age where a lot of managers employ a high press, his lack of work rate wouldn't benefit the team. I think no matter where he goes, we will see the odd glimpse of brilliance now and again, but that's it. I hope he does well wherever he goes, but having ability alone isn't enough, you need to have that desire as well.
 
Has he pissed off yet? Tired of bluffers like him and Pogba stealing a living from this club.
 
I would not be on board with sending Martial out on loan but United still paying most of his wages. Better to let him toil in training month after month and have him available in the event of an injury crisis than to subsidize his playtime in Sevilla.
 
Jireh said:
This is derailing the thread, but out of courtesy, I will reply.
You cannot compare Ronaldo to Martial - one is a legend and an all time great, the other is just Martial, but making CR7 out to be a team player is deception. He is a winner, not a team player.

Team players like Rooney and Benzema have been some of his sacrificial lambs for his glory. Don't be surprised when he jumps ship as soon as we fail to qualify for CL, which will just leave us in a chain reaction of more failing in the subsequent season.

I am yet to ever see Ronaldo put the team ahead of himself. He gives 100% in training and application that he does not tolerate individual failure. In case of failure, he usually perceives it as the team/manager/team mates failing him and therefore visibly moans or throws disrespectful tantrums for broadcast. He is one of the greatest, if not the greatest to ever play the game but far from being a team player.
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The point being, that great team player you are describing is not more likely to lead to more trophies than a player like Ronaldo. You made the comparison. It was a stupid one.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Did this not happen? https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/...-voted-players-player-of-the-year-for-2019-20

Or this?https://www.espn.co.uk/football/man...er-anthony-martial-wins-2015-golden-boy-award

I know Martial has been public enemy number 1 (or 2, maybe Lingard is ahead. Not sure where that leaves Pogba, maybe 3rd?) for about a year and a half with Man Utd fans, but to blindly pretend ‘you’ve never seen play well’ is just pretty fecking silly
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There’s a trend in there somewhere.
 
minoo-utd said:
This is very strange though, I also hear them linked to Halaand :lol: I don’t know how they are linked with all of those and as we hear they have very big debts and huge financial issues.
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on top of that new 1.3 B stadium plan

Coming back to Martial hope Atletico or Newcastle are serious
 
VanDeBank said:
There totally was a line in there about me being Martial FC :lol:



@crossy1686 good riddance.
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What are you talking about? You're so desperately trying to make my post divisive that you've used the "Martial FC" line to describe yourself then scoured my post to find anything remotely close to it. Can't you have a discussion about Martial without gaslighting people?

I can tell my post rattled you by your responses. At first you refused to read it, then you quoted a loan move and lied about the details (see here, Guus Til's wages paid IN FULL by Feyenoord along with a loan fee, absolutely no pay cut bollocks that you speak of AND his contract was extended by 1 year at Spartak; https://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid=388572) and now you're resorting to gaslighting.

So this time, instead of attacking me over some bollocks I didn't say, why don't you actually come back with a valid proof that Martial is taking a pay cut to move on loan to Sevilla seeing as you're so sure of it?
 
christy87 said:
Last season he stank the place out it was the season before he was our best player
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Yeah, you're right....damn time goes too fast for me. Either way, he has never followed up a good season well, it's always one good season, one shit one. I remember now many hoped that after his last poor season, he would follow his trend and turn it up on this one but he didn't and you can't also pay a player that much to turn up one season out of the two. Best of luck to him in Sevilla.
 
crossy1686 said:
What are you talking about? You're so desperately trying to make my post divisive that you've used the "Martial FC" line to describe yourself then scoured my post to find anything remotely close to it. Can't you have a discussion about Martial without gaslighting people?

I can tell my post rattled you by your responses. At first you refused to read it, then you quoted a loan move and lied about the details (see here, Guus Til's wages paid IN FULL by Feyenoord along with a loan fee, absolutely no pay cut bollocks that you speak of AND his contract was extended by 1 year at Spartak; https://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid=388572) and now you're resorting to gaslighting.

So this time, instead of attacking me over some bollocks I didn't say, why don't you actually come back with a valid proof that Martial is taking a pay cut to move on loan to Sevilla seeing as you're so sure of it?
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I thought you were done with this with convo, yet you're bothered enough to write another wall of shite :lol:

Dude, voetbalzone is a clickbait site full of shit. Guus Til has come out and said he took a big a pay cut to move to Feyenoord.

There's literally a leak of his contract details. He went from earning 1,75m at Spartak year to 500k at Feyenoord. This is in addition to his loan fee of a million:

https://metaratings.ru/news/poluzas...-zarplaty-radi-igrovoy-praktiki-v-fe-1069592/

Ok he did extend for a year. But you're aware of players going on loan and not extending, right? This is super common when there's a buy clause, which is looking likely for Martial, given that he's burning his bridges to sulk for a move.

The irony of you crying about ad hominems.
 
roonster09 said:
Base wage figure is not mentioned in the annual report. The total wages spent in that FY will be mentioned, which includes bonuses achieved in that year.
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Not the specific individual figures; the total.

It was a discussion along the lines of "if everyone's on the lower figures + bonuses, then the published total wage doesn't make sense" and how the publicized total wage looks a much better fit if they're all on the higher base wages (one of the examples was lukaku's wage going off the books lining up with him being on 200k base unless he was on ridiculous appearance/goal bonuses)
 
roonster09 said:
No use. I have probably said this 100 times but people prefer to be lazy when it comes to wages. I repeated this one and also how journalists report wages differently(for different clubs), which gives impression that other clubs pay peanuts when that's not the case. They report base wages for one club and total wages including all possible bonuses for other which paints 2 completely different pictures but still they are used in 1v1 comparision.
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But if you say 7,5million base fee, 3,75million loyalty pay and 3 million image rights, which none sounds performance related then he is already at 14,25 mill a year, or 274k a week, and iCL quslification (performace related) will bring him even higher. Am i misunderstanding how it works?
 
ManU_Forever said:
But if you say 7,5million base fee, 3,75million loyalty pay and 3 million image rights, which none sounds performance related then he is already at 14,25 mill a year, or 274k a week, and iCL quslification (performace related) will bring him even higher. Am i misunderstanding how it works?
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Yeah, Pogba has guaranteed wages of around 270K per week, which again depends on him staying full season. Also in many cases, Image rights are included as part of the wages. In this case, even image rights is added.

Not all contracts are structured same way, for example, Lukaku had 4.5 million bonus if he hits 50 goals + assists.

For Sanchez, its 75K per start, 2 million for 40 goals+ assists and other bunch of bonuses.

Now the other point is, few journalists report total wages for few players and few report just basic wage (Especially Liverpool journalists) to make it sound as if they pay peanuts, but in the total wage bill for clubs, there isn't much difference. Last time it was just one Alexis Sanchez difference, later they had higher wage bill than ManUtd.
 
As moody and sulky as he's been, we've never seen him play under a competent manager.
 
I think everyone knows I think he is an absolute shambles of a player and I'll be happy to see the back of him. Ideally for some team desperate to give us £30m plus for him.

No pace, dribbling is wildly overrated, finishing is average at best, can't head the ball, doesn't run, can't cope with other players joining and more concerned about his trademark changing.

Goodbye Tony, please never return.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I think everyone knows I think he is an absolute shambles of a player and I'll be happy to see the back of him. Ideally for some team desperate to give us £30m plus for him.

No pace, dribbling is wildly overrated, finishing is average at best, can't head the ball, doesn't run, can't cope with other players joining and more concerned about his trademark changing.

Goodbye Tony, please never return.
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+1 but with cheerio replacing goodbye.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I think everyone knows I think he is an absolute shambles of a player and I'll be happy to see the back of him. Ideally for some team desperate to give us £30m plus for him.

No pace, dribbling is wildly overrated, finishing is average at best, can't head the ball, doesn't run, can't cope with other players joining and more concerned about his trademark changing.

Goodbye Tony, please never return.
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So you think he's shit but aren't mad he's leaving!?

Oh boi, be prepared to be called a member of Martial FC. Your preface that you never rated him will be ignored.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
This makes no sense.
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It does if you read all the takes of people being angry he's leaving and the numpties that label others as "player FC" for not dragging said player through the mud in every possible way.

I'm also a proud member of Maguire FC, because I said he wins a lot of aerials.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I think everyone knows I think he is an absolute shambles of a player and I'll be happy to see the back of him. Ideally for some team desperate to give us £30m plus for him.

No pace, dribbling is wildly overrated, finishing is average at best, can't head the ball, doesn't run, can't cope with other players joining and more concerned about his trademark changing.

Goodbye Tony, please never return.
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change the trademark thing to political activities and you’ve just described another waster we’ve got called Marcus rashford . All you listed applies to him too.
 
Tallis said:
We should not send him on loan unless there is an obligation to buy I think
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Agreed. I really do not want a situation like Lingard and Pereira where they go on loan and come back and the clubs do not want them after. Or like Sanchez where we stupidly payed for his wages for him to play elsewhere. You want our players, pay up for a permanent deal (either now or after the loan is done) or feck off. Loan deals from a United as a club perspective should only be for the young ones to get experience. Not for shit senior players.

I don't quite remember Fergie ever really loaning out senior players so often. However since he retired we've had Lingard, Pereira, Sanchez, Smalling and now Martial (most likely) going out on loan.
 
I used to prefer to be a read-only here, but I am flabbergasted by how this lad has been treated by this fan base.

First, his transfer fee was exaggerated and reported as £58M yet it was £36M with only potentially increasing to £58M. It is the same reporting being done to his salary where they report the capped maximum salary amount that he never really earns.

For fair comparison's sake, what has Sancho, a 21 year old done to deserve 350K per week? But one player is demonised while another is praised. I hope we keep this same Martial energy towards other high earners like Sancho, bought at double the fee and are on 350K which is more than double Martial's base salary.

Again, I hope we keep this same energy towards high earners if we go the next 2 seasons without CL football - which is projected to happen. More so, I hope you keep this same energy when other high earning forwards score less than 10 goals this season - which is also projected to happen to at least 3 forwards in this team (Cavani, Sancho, Rashford). For the record Rash has 6 league goals in a calendar year, ...bUt mArTi4L.

Pure hatred for someone who has loved and respected the club throughout its trying times is disrespectful. Go watch his recent interview and tell me if the lad deserves such childish treatment from our fanbase.

I really apologize for the ranting but am tired of this fantasy football generation with a social-media-concentration-span and player FC fandoms/hatedoms that can only allow them to digest football though player G/As and other pointless stats. Who cares where the G/As come from as long as the team wins? Pep is walking the league again with a team structured to play, with no individual players amassing stats. Last season Gündoğan was their top scorer, who scored mostly penalties.

All in all, it is going to take us a while for our team to garner any meaningful success outside idolized individual awards. The sad thing is that we are being polarized by player FC fandoms and hatedoms.
 
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Jireh said:
I used to prefer to be a read-only here, but I am flabbergasted by how this lad has been treated by this fan base.

First, his transfer fee was exaggerated and reported as £58M yet it was £36M with only potentially increasing to £58M. It is the same reporting being done to his salary where they report the capped maximum salary amount that he never really earns.

For fair comparison's sake, what has Sancho, a 21 year old done to deserve 350K per week? But one player is demonised while another is praised. I hope we keep this same Martial energy towards other high earners like Sancho, bought at double the fee and are on 350K which is more than double Martial's base salary.

Again, I hope we keep this same energy towards high earners if we go the next 2 seasons without CL football - which is projected to happen. More so, I hope you keep this same energy when other high earning forwards score less than 10 goals this season - which is also projected to happen to at least 3 forwards in this team (Cavani, Sancho, Rashford). For the record Rash has 6 league goals in a calendar year, ...bUt mArTi4L.

Pure hatred for someone who has loved and respected the club throughout its trying times is disrespectful. Go watch his recent interview and tell me if the lad deserves such childish treatment from our fanbase.

I really apologize for the ranting but am tired of this fantasy football generation with a social-media-concentration-span and player FC fandoms/hatedoms that can only allow them to digest football though player G/As and other pointless stats. Who cares where the G/As come from as long as the team wins? Pep is walking the league again with a team structured to play, with no individual players amassing stats. Last season Gündoğan was their top scorer, who scored mostly penalties.

All in all, it is going to take us a while for our team to garner any meaningful success outside idolized individual awards. The sad thing is that we are being polarized by player FC fandoms and hatedoms.
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Spot on.
 
Jireh said:
I used to prefer to be a read-only here, but I am flabbergasted by how this lad has been treated by this fan base.

First, his transfer fee was exaggerated and reported as £58M yet it was £36M with only potentially increasing to £58M. It is the same reporting being done to his salary where they report the capped maximum salary amount that he never really earns.

For fair comparison's sake, what has Sancho, a 21 year old done to deserve 350K per week? But one player is demonised while another is praised. I hope we keep this same Martial energy towards other high earners like Sancho, bought at double the fee and are on 350K which is more than double Martial's base salary.

Again, I hope we keep this same energy towards high earners if we go the next 2 seasons without CL football - which is projected to happen. More so, I hope you keep this same energy when other high earning forwards score less than 10 goals this season - which is also projected to happen to at least 3 forwards in this team (Cavani, Sancho, Rashford). For the record Rash has 6 league goals in a calendar year, ...bUt mArTi4L.

Pure hatred for someone who has loved and respected the club throughout its trying times is disrespectful. Go watch his recent interview and tell me if the lad deserves such childish treatment from our fanbase.

I really apologize for the ranting but am tired of this fantasy football generation with a social-media-concentration-span and player FC fandoms/hatedoms that can only allow them to digest football though player G/As and other pointless stats. Who cares where the G/As come from as long as the team wins? Pep is walking the league again with a team structured to play, with no individual players amassing stats. Last season Gündoğan was their top scorer, who scored mostly penalties.

All in all, it is going to take us a while for our team to garner any meaningful success outside idolized individual awards. The sad thing is that we are being polarized by player FC fandoms and hatedoms.
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Great post. We seem to have a lot of self hating fans these days.
I have a theory though. Generally, fans of football clubs exist for 3-4 reasons. First one is geography - the club nearest you is the easiest to go watch and get to. If it's a populated area it will be a popular club. Second reason is family or friends - we are tribal. See all the Dad's dressing their sons and daughters in football tops. It might not always work but a lot of the fans I know are family related. The next reason is some sort of connection with an ethos of the club or players - you are a Norwegian from a tiny island that doesn't play football but a kid from there is now playing. You support them for him. I saw a LOT of Mexicans at Old Trafford when Javier Hernandez was playing for us.

But the final reason and the most popular one is that the team wins and is the best. If that's why you pick a team, what's left for you when your team starts losing? There's a cognitive dissonance going on. "I picked a successful team! Why are they not successful now!!!". So they get all nihilistic on the internet and do the only thing they can, which is bitch like feck about every single player and manager we have, without a hint of balance or understanding for how HARD it is to BE THE BEST, and without realising that there are -other clubs- with similar demands trying their absolute best to do the same thing.

So our footballers get caught in the crossfire. There is no point being angry. If a player is not doing it for us, we should just wish them well and remember the good times they gave us, and I hope Martial goes on to do well for his next club.
 
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