Ajax scored 100 goals in 29 games, PSV 90, there are a few teams on 55-60. That just emphasizes the lack of defensive quality across the whole league. The stats are plain bonkers.
Martin Ødegaard - Next season
- Thread starter sun_tzu
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Tadic being 30 is somewhat different to what it might mean for youngins learning their trade, though.
As for Ødis, I’d prefer to either see him fight for a spot at RM, or a loan in La Liga. I don’t think he should linger in the Eredivisie.
Ya that’s why I try not to get overly excited on attacking players leaving that league because it’s not really that hard. Like i said there are exceptions where you can look at a player like Luiz Suarez for example and say “that’s the real deal”.
Then for example we have Steven Bergwijn now who is being linked to a few teams but every time I watch Him or when I watch a YouTube video ( which is suppose to make you look good) he looks bang average like a Southampton level player.
Nonetheless in the case of Ødegaard I think the kid has talent and I think Ajax is the perfect team for him.
Strangely enough the league has produced some quality defenders recently.
Yeah, but they must come from the top 4 teams in my opinion, the ones below are just getting hammered on a constant basis.
Defenses under top 5-6 are pretty average but we should also take in consideration that all the teams seem to always try to be on the front foot and score. It really is attack attack attack and it makes defensive players look bad.
I think Odegaard is one to watch for sure. High technical level and has improved a lot this season.
His time in Holland highlighted he needed to get better defensively, and that he needed to learn how to consistently impose himself on the match. Chuffed to say he’s taken huge strides in especially those areas.
My big thing was always that I’ve never seen a player that young play with such vision and maturity against senior footballers. That and as we Noggies can figure out from the intense coverage in Norway, Martin’s ridiculously grounded and focused on developing, he in no sense seems to feel he’s made it. That’s why I am so excited about his future. Hopefully the Norwegian team will benefit as well
Mason Mount had more goals/assist than Odegaard at Vitesse and he is a Championship player now just sayin...
True, but both are only 20 years old. Nothing wrong with playing in Holland or the Championship at that age,especially considering they both seem to be doing well.
I knew my man Leonid would be a good manager for him at this stage of his career. He's good at keeping young players grounded and enjoying the game without pressure, did very good work with Dzagoev and Golovin at this similar age.
Its not that im expecting every player in the PL to be very fast, but he is slow. Like very slow. And on top of that, he is very weak. David Silva has never been fast either, but his body strength is top notch. He uses his body and weight perfectly. And as of now Ødegaard needs to figure that one out, because now he sometimes looks like an U18 player just brought up the seniors.
Mate, you have no idea what you are talking about. Have you even seen him play? One of his strengths is to bring the ball up in attack on brakes. How many times have I not seen him for Vitesse, running away from his opponents with the ball in his legs. He does not look slow at all. What do you base that on?
In the age of fake news, here is a cut from TotalFootballAnalyses´ technical analysis of Ødegaard:
"We can label the Norwegian as a creative and intelligent talent, which he most certainly is, but we mustn’t exclude his extreme force on the ball. When watching Ødegaard, one of his most outstanding attributes is his pure pace when taking on players. Many balls that would usually end up recovered by the opposing defender are instead corralled by Ødegaard.
This allows him to be a bit more adventurous with his dribbling, as it’s tougher for slower players to disrupt his runs. Also, in terms of strength, Ødegaard is a lot tougher than his nimble frame would lead you to believe. If there’s one thing that has changed a lot since those YouTube clips from five years ago, it’s his strength and speed."
"We can label the Norwegian as a creative and intelligent talent, which he most certainly is, but we mustn’t exclude his extreme force on the ball. When watching Ødegaard, one of his most outstanding attributes is his pure pace when taking on players. Many balls that would usually end up recovered by the opposing defender are instead corralled by Ødegaard.
This allows him to be a bit more adventurous with his dribbling, as it’s tougher for slower players to disrupt his runs. Also, in terms of strength, Ødegaard is a lot tougher than his nimble frame would lead you to believe. If there’s one thing that has changed a lot since those YouTube clips from five years ago, it’s his strength and speed."
Yeah he’s definitely not slow nor weak.
Have you ever seen him play? I've watched him live maybe 5 times in the last year and maybe 8/10 on TV. He aint fast at all. He's rather slow compared to the top leagues. A speed test done at the Norwegian national team he came almost last. 60m test. He came first in Stamina test though
He said earlier that he is working on the speed and explosiveness. Anyways, he is not that kind of player that relies on speed, but uses fotball intelligence and technique to get up the pitch. He will also propably end up like a no.10 and not a RW/RM. Watching his every game, it is quite incredible to see his development as he for the first time since he left Norway seems to have the confidence he needs to show what he can do. He has so many dribbles, shots, key passes etc. eache game and would have deserved more assists if he had better team mates, and also more goals if not Var had taken action some times. And all the technical superb moments with nutmegs and really facinating stuff he shows. He stears and commands almost every game he plays atm. I do not see anything other than stardom for the lad, he just have to learn from his past mistakes and get to the correct club at the next turn and prove himself at a better club.
I wish for him to play in Ajax og Dortmund or some club like that. I do not think Zidane will let him have enough playtime at Madrid and will let him go on loan or sell him with a buyback clause. Maybe too weak physically yet for PL though. Germany/Holland/LaLiga definately. Would love to see him at MU in the future but doubt it will happen. Many critics of Odegaard because he went to RM at the age of 15. But there is still 14-15 years at top level left for him if he countinues his improvement.
For me as a norwegian I see him and Berge at midfield, Ajer in defense and Haaland as forward together with all other talents in U20/u19 as the beginning of a new and promising era for our national team. Hopefully these players and more will succeed in taking the next step and play for the best clubs in Europe in some years. For United, Sander Berge at Genk would be an interesting prospect as DM to replace Matic. Haaland has already been scouted by United but chose RB Salburg as the next stepping stone. Ajer might be a top top CB if he continues his development at Celtic and should end up in a better team within a couple of years. Ok, enough rambling from me, just thoughts materializing and hopes expressed.
I wish for him to play in Ajax og Dortmund or some club like that. I do not think Zidane will let him have enough playtime at Madrid and will let him go on loan or sell him with a buyback clause. Maybe too weak physically yet for PL though. Germany/Holland/LaLiga definately. Would love to see him at MU in the future but doubt it will happen. Many critics of Odegaard because he went to RM at the age of 15. But there is still 14-15 years at top level left for him if he countinues his improvement.
For me as a norwegian I see him and Berge at midfield, Ajer in defense and Haaland as forward together with all other talents in U20/u19 as the beginning of a new and promising era for our national team. Hopefully these players and more will succeed in taking the next step and play for the best clubs in Europe in some years. For United, Sander Berge at Genk would be an interesting prospect as DM to replace Matic. Haaland has already been scouted by United but chose RB Salburg as the next stepping stone. Ajer might be a top top CB if he continues his development at Celtic and should end up in a better team within a couple of years. Ok, enough rambling from me, just thoughts materializing and hopes expressed.
Laughable that some have been suggesting that Ajax isn't a good move for him.
This! agree 100% Samid, it would be the perfect club for him, same culture and language as last two seasons, better team and team mates, CL, fluid technical & collective football. I see a lot of goals and shitloads of assists if he plays for them.
2 years at Ajax and then go to a top club if he shows himself there. Plenty of room will be available in the starting lineup once Ajax inevitably has to sell some players. He should have gone to Ajax in the first place.
Another strong match against Zwolle. Assisted Linssen 3 times with the corner kick, could have had more assists as well towards the end. Finishing this season strongly. It’s like a switch flipped in his head one third into this season.
Yes, and assisted the assister on the third goal also. They were down one man early too, so very nice contribution today. I notice that players from oppsite teams are starting to target him when frustrated. Getting rougher on him to stop him. Hopefully Bundesliga, Ajax or Laliga next season. Due to his history with Zidane and RM I do not see him playing for them in the future. Vitesse - Ajax- Barcelona starting to look more plausible as Ajax seems like a farming club for Barcelona atm and Ajax needs reinforcements this summer.
Odegaard was an idiot to go to Real Madrid in the first place. He was never gonna get a chance there. He could have gone to Ajax back then, but he chose the money and overestimated himself (well his father did probably).
Nevertheless when he joined Heerenveen I was really eager to see his qualities and had high expectations. To be honest both at Heerenveen and at Vitesse he has been a little underwhelming. His talent is obvious, but he's not effective enough. Too few goals, too few assists. His numbers are underwhelming and in the defensively terrible Eredivisie I think showing decents numbers is what should have been expected from him.
Yesterday he played v Ajax and it was a match with two faces, also for Odegaard. When he played Tagliafico I didn't even notice he was on the pitch. After the match went to 3-0, Ajax made some changes, Ajax clearly lost the focus and Odegaard was playing against Blind and Veltman rather than Tagliafico (who was subbed off). From that point Odegaard played really strong, showed his technique and agility. However this was after Ajax clearly lost the focus, whereas before that he showed nothing. So how much was that worth?
Therefore I am not sure whether I want Ajax to sign him. For one, he should have chosen Ajax 3 years ago and now Ajax has to pay a lot more money for him because he chose money rather than his development a few years back. Secondly he has been underwhelming in the Eredivisie so far. Thirdly, if Ajax buys him it might be for a new record fee, which will only bring extra pressure on him. He has talent, but he's not worth anything near a record fee at this point. He would be Ziyech's replacement, but he is nowhere near him in terms of goals and assists. Odegaard is not even close to the Twente Ziyech that Ajax bought, he may not even be at the level Ziyech was at Heerenveen. Talentwise, yes; but he is just not there yet. When he comes to Ajax for a big fee as Ziyech's replacement the expectation will be that he'll produce basicly every other game. So far at Vitesse and Heerenveen he hasn't produced much more than 5 games a season.
He would have been a good buy for Ajax for a decent fee if he could be bought for the future with time to develop. But I think he needs another two years before being a real asset to Ajax. However if he joins now from Real Madrid he'll probably cost at least 15m and that's not a fee that will allow him to develop slowly for another 2 years. He'll need to produce straight away and from what he's shown so far he's not ready for that.
Nevertheless when he joined Heerenveen I was really eager to see his qualities and had high expectations. To be honest both at Heerenveen and at Vitesse he has been a little underwhelming. His talent is obvious, but he's not effective enough. Too few goals, too few assists. His numbers are underwhelming and in the defensively terrible Eredivisie I think showing decents numbers is what should have been expected from him.
Yesterday he played v Ajax and it was a match with two faces, also for Odegaard. When he played Tagliafico I didn't even notice he was on the pitch. After the match went to 3-0, Ajax made some changes, Ajax clearly lost the focus and Odegaard was playing against Blind and Veltman rather than Tagliafico (who was subbed off). From that point Odegaard played really strong, showed his technique and agility. However this was after Ajax clearly lost the focus, whereas before that he showed nothing. So how much was that worth?
Therefore I am not sure whether I want Ajax to sign him. For one, he should have chosen Ajax 3 years ago and now Ajax has to pay a lot more money for him because he chose money rather than his development a few years back. Secondly he has been underwhelming in the Eredivisie so far. Thirdly, if Ajax buys him it might be for a new record fee, which will only bring extra pressure on him. He has talent, but he's not worth anything near a record fee at this point. He would be Ziyech's replacement, but he is nowhere near him in terms of goals and assists. Odegaard is not even close to the Twente Ziyech that Ajax bought, he may not even be at the level Ziyech was at Heerenveen. Talentwise, yes; but he is just not there yet. When he comes to Ajax for a big fee as Ziyech's replacement the expectation will be that he'll produce basicly every other game. So far at Vitesse and Heerenveen he hasn't produced much more than 5 games a season.
He would have been a good buy for Ajax for a decent fee if he could be bought for the future with time to develop. But I think he needs another two years before being a real asset to Ajax. However if he joins now from Real Madrid he'll probably cost at least 15m and that's not a fee that will allow him to develop slowly for another 2 years. He'll need to produce straight away and from what he's shown so far he's not ready for that.
I have to say I strongly disagree. And you seem to be judging him from one game, where his team chose not to play their attacking football, against a superior team.
I guess Ziyech might not have made a great impression against Real Madrid 2 years ago neither, to compare it. You do not get Motm 8 times for being underwhelming. 6 goals and 9 assists may not be much, but he is neither a forward nor does he have the team mates Zieych has. A LOT of chances he created was wasted by lousy forwards since Mavtaz was injured. He has very good stats otherwise also, like having shitloads of chances created, high number of successful dribbles, a lot better defensive stats than before etc. The season was slow starting for him, but then again, he did not have match training and had suffered a broken metarsasal. 2019 stats are excellent. I guess we will see who was right in a couple of years. I am not sweating. I watch most of the matches he plays, and I do think his talent and potential is a lot higher than Ziyech. But then again, Ødegaard is 20 and Z. is 26. Ajax fans seem almost angry that he did not choose your club when he was 15. Feel free to feel this way of course, but saying he is underwhelming in the Eredivisie is not correct at all. He is on a good trajectory imo and is clearly on a level over his teammates in Vitesse.
I guess Ziyech might not have made a great impression against Real Madrid 2 years ago neither, to compare it. You do not get Motm 8 times for being underwhelming. 6 goals and 9 assists may not be much, but he is neither a forward nor does he have the team mates Zieych has. A LOT of chances he created was wasted by lousy forwards since Mavtaz was injured. He has very good stats otherwise also, like having shitloads of chances created, high number of successful dribbles, a lot better defensive stats than before etc. The season was slow starting for him, but then again, he did not have match training and had suffered a broken metarsasal. 2019 stats are excellent. I guess we will see who was right in a couple of years. I am not sweating. I watch most of the matches he plays, and I do think his talent and potential is a lot higher than Ziyech. But then again, Ødegaard is 20 and Z. is 26. Ajax fans seem almost angry that he did not choose your club when he was 15. Feel free to feel this way of course, but saying he is underwhelming in the Eredivisie is not correct at all. He is on a good trajectory imo and is clearly on a level over his teammates in Vitesse.
One game? As I've stated I've been following him since he's been playing in the Netherlands.
He's definitely been underwhelming, there's no other conclusion than that. However the question is whether to look at his performances in the past, or to look purely at his potential. His talent is obvious (although not as great as he was hyped when he was 15 - but that was also to be expected).
However I will admit that I thought his numbers were slightly lower than 6 goals and 9 assists, which is decent in a club like Vitesse. You are right that it will be easier to get bigger numbers with better teammates around him. I thought he had less assists. 9 assists is fine at a club like Vitesse. 6 goals definitely underwhelming though, seeing as this is his third season in the Eredivisie and he plays an attacking role. His stats at Heerenveen were very poor though. Last year two goals and two assists in 24 league games and 2 cup games. Yes he is young, yes Heerenveen isn't a great team. But the Eredivisie is crap, especially defensively. A very talented player should get far better stats than that in any team. First season he didn't do much either, but given his age it's not fair to judge his first months. In the end last year was very poor and this season is decent at best, but that's underwhelming given the hype around his talent.
He's definitely not lived up to his reputation. The biggest talents come very fast in the Eredivisie. Odegaard was regarded as one of the best talents, but he's not been thát impressive. Don't get me wrong, I see his talent and I even am a fan of the kind of player he is (technically skilled, creative, great passing). However that doesn't change the fact that he has not really delivered so far. I also don't agree he's clearly a level above his teammates. In potential, yes obvoiusly (although this new young striker Buitink has so far impressed me as well and he could have a big potential as well - need to see some more from him though). But Odegaard's level at this moment definitely is not a level above all other teammates. Bryan Linssen was out for Vitesse against Ajax. As an Ajax fan I was happy about that and if I definitely rate him higher at this moment than Odegaard (note: at this moment, obviously Odegaard has more potential but he is not better right now).
And his choice for Real Madrid was plain stupid, even Stevie Wonder could see that back then. A move to Real Madrid is a stupid move for any player that's not established. Unless you're so talentless that you know you will never make it anyway then you can better take that opportunity when it arises. However when a player has real talent, a move to a club like RM (or any European 'giant' for that matter) is nothing else but plain stupid. 99% of the players who do that fail miserably. Of course at Ajax there are also enough talented players that flop, but obviously history has proven a far bigger percentage of talents that chose a gradual development at (for example) Ajax have made it in the end. Besides Ajax there are also other good clubs for young players, like Schalke or Anderlecht for instance. However RM youth academy is a dead end for basicly any player. This was a guarantee beforehand. It's only good for the players bankaccount. If a player choses that over the opportunity that Ajax offers, yes than that player does lose some respect.
Besides that it is also a very bad precedent for a club like Ajax to give a player like Odegaard a second chance. Then Ajax says 'it doesnt matter that you chose the money when you were young, you can still get another chance in a few years'. With that message many young players will take the money first and then see what happens. Then they can always go to Ajax later. But that's not a message Ajax want to send. It's not in Ajax' interest. Now Ajax has to pay a lot more money for Odegaard and his reselling value will also be lower when he's 23 or 24 rather than what it would have been had Ajax sold him at 21 after he'd been at Ajax for 4/5 years. But most importantly, the investment for Ajax becomes much bigger and therefore the risks are far bigger. Therefore it is much better for Ajax to get those players at 16 rather then after they've already flopped at a club like RM.
So at the end of the day would I take Odegaard at Ajax? He has Ajax written all over him as a player. But I'd only take him for a modest fee (6-8m). I don't think that's in the cards. He's definitely not worth 15-20m at this point and Ajax shouldn't pay this amount of money for him. I don't believe he will deliver what will be expected. If he joins for 20m he has to be Ajax' main man next season. That's the expectation that comes with that price tag. I do not believe he is ready for that right now. He has not shown that he is in his time in the Eredivisie so far. If he joins for a modest fee, expectations (on short term) will be more reasonable and this could allow him to develop gradually. With that fee he'll get a bit more time to grow into the team and he wont be expected to deliver every week (which will be the case if he joins for 20m). I think Odegaard can be a great player for Ajax in 2 years time, next year he can be a decent asset. But a 20m price-tag will bring an incredible amount of expectation and pressure. Ajax made that mistake before, with a player called Sulejmani (who by the way was far more impressive at Heerenveen than Odegaard was). He flopped quote miserably. Also injuries were part of that, but also because the record-breaking price tag brought a pressure on him that he couldn't take. The same will happen to Odegaard I'm afraid. That's why I don't want Ajax to sign him as a Ziyech replacement for a huge price tag (20m is huge for Ajax).
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Odegaard never flopped at RM. He never got the chance. He had ONE match there. They admitted he was signed as a PR stunt. What do you think that makes Odegaard feel? He was used and he was 15 yo and one of the greatest talents in the world. Remember he scored goals in the norwegian top series and played for the national team of Norway at 15.. then Zidane did not like being given this boy.
Odegaard is a down to earth very very nice person. No bullshit no bragging, no ego. He works hard every day. He is no primadonna. He knows that he can only succeed by hard work. THAT and his talent and trajectory of performance is what makes me believe. In Heerenveen he was injured twice. Now no injuries and plays very very well (except 1st half against Ajax of course where his coach had a defensive approach to the game and against a much better Ajax team.
Watch this instead (if you have not seen it before) :
And yes, he is not yet worth 20 mill. No one is when just recently turning 20 imo. But that is football! I do believe he would fit in at Ajax even though I highly admire your model and understand the point of homegrown first. However, sometimes one must buy to keep a certain level and I do think he can help with that. In 2 years he can play no 10.
Odegaard is a down to earth very very nice person. No bullshit no bragging, no ego. He works hard every day. He is no primadonna. He knows that he can only succeed by hard work. THAT and his talent and trajectory of performance is what makes me believe. In Heerenveen he was injured twice. Now no injuries and plays very very well (except 1st half against Ajax of course where his coach had a defensive approach to the game and against a much better Ajax team.
Watch this instead (if you have not seen it before) :
And yes, he is not yet worth 20 mill. No one is when just recently turning 20 imo. But that is football! I do believe he would fit in at Ajax even though I highly admire your model and understand the point of homegrown first. However, sometimes one must buy to keep a certain level and I do think he can help with that. In 2 years he can play no 10.
Real won't allow him to leave on a permanent according to Marca. They'd be interested in loaning him to Ajax.
I'm a fan of him but saying that he was 'used' is just nonsense. The whole world knew exactly what he was getting into when he moved there.
Ajax will not loan him. If Real doesn't want to sell, Ajax will look further.
He’ll definitely have a decent career.
Yeah but people said the same about Freddy Adu...
Hah! Don’t give me that
The truth is Martin played at a higher level at 16 than Adu ever did. I did watch him for Strømsgodset and he was brilliant, for a 15 yo. He’s come a long way since, and has developed nicely imo. Thing is though, he still has the body of a kid, so it will take a year or two to gauge his actual level. I think he’ll have a similar career to Ericksen. Not necessarily as good, but thereabouts.
Would be stupid of Ajax to loan him. They've got too much money now to develop players for other clubs. Better to buy a player and reap the rewards of it fully.
I don't believe any of that.
Seems like Odegaard is still suffering from his decision to join Madrid in stead of Ajax, which was interested in him as well when he started to make an impression in Norway. Now he is stuck at a club that can't make up its mind regarding his qualities and continues to loan him out.
Odegaard is playing quite well in the Eredivisie, but not to such extent that Ajax is willing to develop him as a player while Madrid continues to own him.
Maybe loan with option to buy? Who knows what they work on behind the scenes, i would be surprised if they took him on loan for a year.
Yeah, we all know Ajax give their kids a magic potion that makes them mature and realize their talent at 18...
Anyways, yeah, don't see us letting him go for good. Think transfer with buy-back option is likely if Zidane judges him not ready
Sell him before the preseason would be stupid.Anyway we could negociate some player in returnYeah, we all know Ajax give their kids a magic potion that makes them mature and realize their talent at 18...
Anyways, yeah, don't see us letting him go for good. Think transfer with buy-back option is likely if Zidane judges him not ready
One of the two good ones is already gone to barcelona and the other is about to followSell him before the preseason would be stupid.Anyway we could negociate some player in return
Brahim Diaz is ahead of him in Madrid at the moment so can't see him has any chance gettomg into the team in the near future. His contract expires in 2021 and I doubt he will renew it. It is the best interest for both parties for him to move on this summer.Yeah, we all know Ajax give their kids a magic potion that makes them mature and realize their talent at 18...
Anyways, yeah, don't see us letting him go for good. Think transfer with buy-back option is likely if Zidane judges him not ready
I don't understand why Brahim Diaz leave the bench of City and opt for Madrid's either, when Phil foden starts getting game time in City.
Fat chance of that. The club has made big investments in youth, doubt they're ready to just let him go. Now if he wants to leave no matter what that's another story, but he's already at real madrid, why should he want to leave? We're going to do everything in our power to help his development along, and there's a chance he might just convince Zidane in the summer. I mean, our recent track record with youth speaks for itself. Carvajal, Casemiro, Varane, Asensio, Morata, Jey M(
), Vinicius, now Fede Valverde and Reguilon, last season Achraf....we're not exactly shy about giving kids playing time, if they're good. And the sell with buy-back option has been working like a charm so far