Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Rhyme Animal]

Peak whataboutism. A player from the 70s was a drunk with form for DV, albeit not as bad as Greenwood as far as we know, so let's forget Greenwood's behaviour. Nice one.

This simply isn’t true.

George Best was a repeated Domestic Abuser.

He was repeatedly, and quite seriously violent (one of his wives presented with a broken arm after one of their rows) toward multiple women, and anyone serious about the plight of DV should acknowledge it as such.

He was a seriously troubled man and multiple abuser and it shouldn’t be white-washed in order to win an argument on Mason Greenwood, who in comparison is tame.

I also want to make clear that I’m not trying to speak badly of George and I would always want him to Rest In Peace.

 

[Red_toad]

looks like Barcelona are now trying to get in the mix to sign him in january or next summer

They can't afford him, unless they wish to do a player exchange it won't happen.

 

[Wibble]

This simply isn’t true.

George Best was a repeated Domestic Abuser.

He was repeatedly, and quite seriously violent (one of his wives presented with a broken arm after one of their rows) toward multiple women, and anyone serious about the plight of DV should acknowledge it as such.

He was a seriously troubled man and multiple abuser and it shouldn’t be white-washed in order to win an argument on Mason Greenwood, who in comparison is tame.

I also want to make clear that I’m not trying to speak badly of George and I would always want him to Rest In Peace.

And who would want to sign or retain any player if what you say is true? Or even based on what we know for sure? None.

And I'd say sexual crimes are even more damaging than other forms of DV 99% of the time.

 

[Stuu]

People in here acting as if he murdered someone. Do you not believe in second chances? He was just a kid after all. Other PL clubs will snap him up in a few years without a second thought and his past will be brushed away.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Mason Greenwood, who in comparison is tame.

Scarily, we do not know if this is true. A reminder about some of the alleged abuse so far (Greenwood was only 19/20 when he allegedly did this)

Spoiler: Distressing image

 

[NotThatSoph]

When I heard that audio I was shocked as anyone else, especially given that his partner presented a form of context which implied that he threatened to rape her and also physically assaulted her.

However we now have statements from United and Richard Arnold that the context for the audio, video and photos are now different according to the accuser’s family (this is mentioned in RA’s statement - I’m also not going to speculate whether the alleged victim herself confirmed that the context is different because that is not explicitly mentioned in RA’s statement).
.

Arnold's statement does not say that, and as far as I know it's not true. The mother was informed of Greenwood's story, and was given the opportunity to confirm, contradict or add, but didn't. Choosing to not contradict is not the same as affirming. She wouldn't even be in a position to confirm it, because she wasn't there.

They did not speak to the victim at all.

 

[golden_blunder]

Yes agree but as already said 1000x, that only works if hes done it. What we believe it to be true is one thing but where does that stop with regard to our actions?

Would like to see what happens if we decided in football that we'll just ignore the refs or VAR decision, no penalty and give ourselves the 3 points cause fans believe they are right!!! We all seen it wasnt a penalty??

That’s some mental gymnastics

 

[golden_blunder]

This.

The thing that was the sketchiest to me was the moment her father released the statement the next day.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Not a good look at all. “She didn’t want it released”, “Their relationship has not been good for the last few months” ??? This is so poor and screams abuse.
You don’t go to the papers straight away when your daughter was allegedly abused. You take your time and try to understand her in the first place.

Yep, said this a few times myself. It’s just swept under the carpet, nothing to see!

 

[NotThatSoph]

Scarily, we do not know if this is true. A reminder about some of the alleged abuse so far (Greenwood was only 19/20 when he allegedly did this)

Spoiler: Distressing image

Also, for those demanding a criminal conviction, Best was only ever done on drink driving and assaulting a police officer. Of course everyone knows about the domestic violence, but a lot of people here have to pretend not to.

 

[Solius]

People in here acting as if he murdered someone. Do you not believe in second chances? He was just a kid after all. Other PL clubs will snap him up in a few years without a second thought and his past will be brushed away.

No, people are acting like he assaulted someone and threatened to force them to have sex.

 

[Pes6Monster]

This simply isn’t true.
George Best was a repeated Domestic Abuser.

Agreed we should not be glossing over Best's frequent abuse, which was mental as well as physical, especially as it occured between multiple partners.

However, Best was also an alcoholic.

A significant illness which explains, but does not excuse, such abusive behaviour.

 

[Litch]

That’s some mental gymnastics

Yep....

 

[MancunianAngels]

People in here acting as if he murdered someone. Do you not believe in second chances? He was just a kid after all. Other PL clubs will snap him up in a few years without a second thought and his past will be brushed away.

Perhaps, people care about more than football results.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Agreed we should not be glossing over Best's frequent abuse, which was mental as well as physical, especially as it occured between multiple partners.

However, Best was also an alcoholic.

A significant illness which explains, but does not excuse, such abusive behaviour.

Agree with most of this

Few things about Best in addition. People were (wrongly) more accepting of incidents like this and the lack of social media or 24 hour news outlets meant they were usually forgotten about quicker by the general public.

Societal norms have moved in a positive direction.

People in here acting as if he murdered someone. Do you not believe in second chances? He was just a kid after all. Other PL clubs will snap him up in a few years without a second thought and his past will be brushed away.

I'd also keep arguing that big clubs won't go anywhere near him for at least another 18 months. As much as he's clearly in good form at the moment, it's still a small run in what's been a complicated start to his professional career (even ignoring all of this.)

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Based on the last poll, the results were 50:50 when fans here were asked whether they want Greenwood to be back playing for Man Utd. That was before he went to Spain.

I assume there are more fans now open to him coming back:-

1) People in Spain are giving him second chance as a young man to rebuild his life. I think his home country should do the same.

2) He is taking responsibility and rebuilding his life with his wife ("alleged victim") and young family. He has shown improvement in his behaviour and become a responsible family man now.

3) He is also doing well on football side and finding his way back. His potential is very high.

4) He is a local academy lad and have been with us since very young age. We have the responsibility to guide and give him opportunity to be back both as a better human being and footballer.

 

[moses]

Based on the last poll, the results were 50:50 when fans here were asked whether they want Greenwood to be back playing for Man Utd. That was before he went to Spain.

I assume there are more fans now open to him coming back:-

1) People in Spain are giving him second chance as a young man to rebuild his life. I think his home country should do the same.

2) He is taking responsibility and rebuilding his life with his wife ("alleged victim") and young family. He has shown improvement in his behaviour and become a responsible family man now.

3) He is also doing well on football side and finding his way back. His potential is very high.

4) He is a local academy lad and have been with us since very young age. We have the responsibility to guide and give him opportunity to be back both as a better human being and footballer.

It's always easier to rebuild a away from the "scene of the crime". Getafe is much less high profile than United. Emotive nonsense like his 'home country' is quite a, transparent choice of language on your part.

You at least admit he is getting a second chance, it's a pity the other pearl clutchers don't realise this.

Beyond that we know nothing.

Your view that he is behaving well and taking responsibility is viewed by others quite differently. A bit more critically and maybe cynically, but your post reads like it was written by his grandmother.

One responsibilty he has shirked in my opinion is an explanation of what we have seen, so that's where I remain, with the unshakeable and as yet unexplained threat of rape and images of the scars of violent domestic abuse.

 

[duffer]

2) He is taking responsibility and rebuilding his life with his wife ("alleged victim") and young family. He has shown improvement in his behaviour and become a responsible family man now.

He said he didn't do it. What is he taking responsibility for?

Also, he hasn't got a wife, has he?

 

[flameinthesun]

He said he didn't do it. What is he taking responsibility for?

Also, he hasn't got a wife.

Is making good with his partner, her family and the club not taking responsibility?

 

[duffer]

Is making good with his partner, her family and the club not taking responsibility?

Saying you didn't do something is the opposite of taking responsibility for it.

 

[Escobar]

People in here acting as if he murdered someone. Do you not believe in second chances? He was just a kid after all. Other PL clubs will snap him up in a few years without a second thought and his past will be brushed away.

Unfortunately, you will not find mqny balanced common sense kind of views, more likely the houlier-than-thou black or white I never made a big mistake in my life people who seem to know better than Masons girlfriend

 

[Yorke to Cole]

This isn't about football per se. It is about not wanting someone like Greenwood being associated with an entity we are associated with.

But there is a discussion to be had. It's not as easy as saying "whataboutism" when delve into other experiences of domestic violence. Sherlock Gascoigne wrote a book "Surviving Paul Gascoigne".

I have not read it and will never read it, but I would say it is a safe bet that are accounts of violence written in that book. Again he is revered as a English football icon to this day.

That is my main criticism of people in here. People are disgusted by the thought of domestic violence, but no one is really prepared to discuss why it may occur and how you confront it to make the steps to resolve it. It is not an issue that simply defined to having one cause. There are many reasons why it occurs.

I have witnessed domestic violence and when I hear people use flippant phrases like "whataboutism" that shows me someone who thinks in this case oh domestic violence must be horrible, thank God I don't have to put up with that in my life.Poor you.

 

[Posh Red]

Is making good with his partner, her family and the club not taking responsibility?

Denying you’ve done anything wrong isn’t generally considered taking responsibility, no.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Unfortunately, you will not find mqny balanced common sense kind of views, more likely the houlier-than-thou black or white I never made a big mistake in my life people who seem to know better than Masons girlfriend

Well, I mean I never beat and rape my girlfriend and wouldn't tolerate someone who does. Does that make me holier-than thou? If so I am happy to be. Everyone who plays down rape and beating to "making a mistake" is a bit of an evil prick though.

 

[sizzling sausages]

Unfortunately, you will not find mqny balanced common sense kind of views, more likely the houlier-than-thou black or white I never made a big mistake in my life people who seem to know better than Masons girlfriend

Beating up his girlfriend and threatening to rape her isn't a mistake ffs. It's scum behaviour.

 

[flameinthesun]

Saying you didn't do something is the opposite of taking responsibility for it.

If he says he didn't do what he was accused of, which Manchester United corroborated, yet acknowledges that he has made mistakes (as per his statement) and his partner, her family and the club have accepted it, what more must he do. Unless you personally know more than us, the partner, the partner's family, the club about the situation that is not just speculation? It seems people want him to personally apologise to the them and publicise the details of his and his partner's private life as if this is juicy tmz gossip. If all parties involved are satisfied, if all parties involved appear to have moved on and if all parties involves are supporting him and his partner then that should be enough for people.

 

[sizzling sausages]

But there is a discussion to be had. It's not as easy as saying "whataboutism" when delve into other experiences of domestic violence. Sherlock Gascoigne wrote a book "Surviving Paul Gascoigne".

I have not read it and will never read it, but I would say it is a safe bet that are accounts of violence written in that book. Again he is revered as a English football icon to this day.

That is my main criticism of people in here. People are disgusted by the thought of domestic violence, but no one is really prepared to discuss why it may occur and how you confront it to make the steps to resolve it. It is not an issue that simply defined to having one cause. There are many reasons why it occurs.

I have witnessed domestic violence and when I hear people use flippant phrases like "whataboutism" that shows me someone who thinks in this case oh domestic violence must be horrible, thank God I don't have to put up with that in my life.Poor you.

Well I'd say that allowing him back to one of the biggest teams in the world like nothing happened certainly wouldn't be a step to resolve domestic violence.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Unfortunately, you will not find mqny balanced common sense kind of views, more likely the houlier-than-thou black or white I never made a big mistake in my life people who seem to know better than Masons girlfriend

I've never "allegedly" beaten up my partner.

I'd class a mistake is maybe getting a bit of drunk or even doing a line or two of cocaine. Not domestic violence. Unless further evidence comes out that those images were somehow faked, I don't want him anywhere near the club.

Let's also be honest. If a random under 23 (with no hope of being a regular first teamer) player had been accused of what he's been accused of, nobody on here would be talking about second chances. This thread would have died in March and we'd all just be getting on with our lives.

 

[duffer]

If he says he didn't do what he was accused of, which Manchester United corroborated, yet acknowledges that he has made mistakes (as per his statement) and his partner, her family and the club have accepted it, what more must he do. Unless you personally know more than us, the partner, the partner's family, the club about the situation that is not just speculation? It seems people want him to personally apologise to the them and publicise the details of his and his partner's private life as if this is juicy tmz gossip. If all parties involved are satisfied, if all parties involved appear to have moved on and if all parties involves are supporting him and his partner then that should be enough for people.

Unless the pics were fake or someone else beat her bloody then he assaulted her. Man United trying to protect a multi-million £ asset by saying "trust us" is meaningless to me. Then making up doesn't change what did or didn't happen.

What more must he do? For what? To get me to believe him? Why the feck would he care about that but If he did care, he needs to explain that the pics are fake or that someone else beat her up.

 

[Cloud7]

Regardless of your thoughts on MG, there is a point to be made about the circular discussions that are happening in this thread every day. People are allowed to pick and choose which cases are more significant to them than others. Having differing views on cases is not the big 'gotcha' that folk seem to think it is, nor is 'hypocrisy' the big talking point it's made out to be. There is no hard line where everything on one side of the line should be acceptable and everything on the other side should not. It is perfectly normal for the line to be different in different places.

For example, I can say that I would be uncomfortable with MG coming back to United, while at the same time listening to music made by Vybz Kartel who is a convicted murderer currently serving a life sentence, and there really is no point of reference to be drawn between the two. I can separate the music I like from the musician who is quite clearly not a good person. If you're okay with MG coming back because he is a good footballer and would likely be better than our current attackers, and you are able to separate the on field stuff from the off field stuff, then why not just say so? At least there's a discussion to be had there about to what extent you can separate the player from the person, but all of the talking points about "Well Ronaldo did this, George Best did that" etc. aren't really going anywhere.

 

[flameinthesun]

Unless the pics were fake or someone else beat her bloody then he assaulted her. Man United trying to protect a multi-million £ asset by saying "trust us" is meaningless to me. Then making up doesn't change what did or didn't happen.

What more must he do? For what? To get me to believe him? Why the feck would he care about that but If he did care, he needs to explain that the pics are fake or that someone else beat her up.

Your first paragraph is your own speculation that he is guilty of all of the above which you are allowed, just as someone could speculate the opposite. Its the uncomfortable truth that we most likely will never know the truth behind it.

Your second paragraph is your answer, he shouldn't have to explain it. You have your answer in how his partner, her family and the club have accepted him back and moved on. That should be enough.

 

[duffer]

Your first paragraph is your own speculation that he is guilty of all of the above which you are allowed, just as someone could speculate the opposite. Its the uncomfortable truth that we most likely will never know the truth behind it.

Your second paragraph is your answer, he shouldn't have to explain it. You have your answer in how his partner, her family and the club have accepted him back and moved on. That should be enough.

If he wants me to think he didn't assault her, he does.

I'm 100% sure he doesn't give a feck what I think by the way.

He said he didn't assault her, I hope he's not lying but based on what he wants to put out there, I think he probably is.

 

[STYLOISRED]

If her family are protecting Greenwood and have sent her to another country with him, they are as culpable as he is.

This is also gross negligence by Manchester Utd PLC.

Or maybe, just maybe, the people who have intimate knowledge of all the happenings in this matter know that she is perfectly safe being with him and will not let social media influence their decision or affect the life of their daughter and grandchild.

Maybe, just maybe you are a clueless person who expects strangers to act in the manner you want them to and you're close minded enough to not realise that these people can make decisions for the benefit of their loved ones. Decisions that have absolutely no reason to conform to your "understanding" or "sense of morality".

 

[Redlambs]

The language some of you use to down play the pics/audio is absolutely disgraceful.

That is my main criticism of people in here. People are disgusted by the thought of domestic violence, but no one is really prepared to discuss why it may occur and how you confront it to make the steps to resolve it. It is not an issue that simply defined to having one cause. There are many reasons why it occurs.

There has actually been discussion of that in this very thread.

The problem more is most don't actually understand it on any real level. Thankfully so in many ways, ignorantly so in others.

But then, like any discussion on here or other social media, since when has actual knowledge on the subject mattered.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

If her family are protecting Greenwood and have sent her to another country with him, they are as culpable as he is.

This is also gross negligence by Manchester Utd PLC.

Or perhaps, crazy as it sounds, maybe her family who obviously Love her and care for her deeply are actually privy to infinitely more information and knowledge than anyone else, and that knowledge and information has lead to them sticking with him and supporting the couple…?

As difficult as it obviously is for many on here to accept - her family know infinitely more about this than you do. The CPS know infinitely more about the case than you do. Utd know more about it than you do…

Her family have remained in support of the couple and seem genuinely happy.

The CPS dropped all charges MONTHS AFTER she stated she wanted nothing to do with the case.

Utd stated that they believe him to be innocent of the initial charges.

So maybe, just maybe there’s more to the story than ‘he’s defo guilty’.

As thus far, literally every element that knows a lot about it - her family, the CPS, his partner herself, Man Utd - does not act as though he’s guilty.

But hey, Joe Bloggs sat on the internet knows for sure he is guilty and anyone not convinced of the same is an ‘evil dick’ etc.

 

[Beachryan]

I'd say the one thing that both sides of this 'debate' can agree on is that the club, and Greenwood himself (or his people) have not given the public enough information to properly make a judgement. I think this is largely down to the legal culture involved: saying nothing being better than saying the wrong thing, and releasing meaningless statements that again, elucidate nothing.

From where I sit, the decision point is simple: if Greenwood did what is implied by the audio (and pictures) then he obviously should be nowhere near our club ever again. And even though I don't have a lot faith in humanity as a whole, I believe that would also be true for the majority of people working at Manchester United.

But, outside of that 'evidence' I have nothing to go on, other than the bigger picture. The victim having the data released against her will. The victim not only staying with Mason, but also having a subsequent child, and still being together - now in a foreign country - years later as adults. Mason's own proclamations of innocence and of course the entire dropping of a high-profile case by the police. Those are context, and certainly suggest something more than the simple situation the evidence suggests.

I think the club has a responsiblity to, if they want us to accept Greenwood back, treat us as not idiots and explain it. Or Greenwood and family need to do similarly. Just releasing pat legalise won't cut it. Get the two of them on one of those godawful tv specials telling what happened. Or even better, get a proper press conference to do so. Just something.

Because none of us know enough to say much more at this stage. For all those well-intetioned posters talking about the cycle of domestic violence, women being forced to remain and so forth - that's all true but you have no idea whatsoever if it applies to Mason and his partner. It might. It might not. You're guessing. For those saying there's some explanation that makes this all make sense and not what it look like - again, maybe there is but you have no idea.

Greenwood doesn't get privacy, I'm afraid, playing at Manchester United.

 

[Belisarius]

Team news

"To start with last: I don't think so. It will be a similar squad as we had against Villa.
"Mid-January we expect many players back. Mason, Casemiro, Martinez, Malacia, so we expect Harry Maguire, of course. We expect many players to return in January."

The above was posted in the press conference thread for the Forest game. Is there another Mason who plays for United? Or is ETH saying he expects Mason Greenwood back in Mid- January?

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Team news


The above was posted in the press conference thread for the Forest game. Is there another Mason who plays for United? Or is ETH saying he expects Mason Greenwood back in Mid- January?

Mount?

 

[Redlambs]

The victim having the data released against her will

This isn't true. Her dad mentioned hackers once the next morning and that was it. Greenwood has told us his "mistakes" led to that evidence getting out. Also, "data" is more downplaying.

People seem to ignore the fact she was documenting evidence in the first place, and made a video statement to the police which led to charges...which she later withdrew. Those saying the she and the other witnesses withdrew and yet the case went on for 4 months don't quite have the gotcha they think.

Team news


The above was posted in the press conference thread for the Forest game. Is there another Mason who plays for United? Or is ETH saying he expects Mason Greenwood back in Mid- January?

Obviously Mount.

Put your cocks away lads.

 

[Belisarius]

Mount?

Thanks. Sorry. Brain-fart.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I keep waiting for accountability. The club is pretending they learned something in their investigation that is exculpatory, yet they won't share it with the fans/public: why? They should, or, the person who oversaw that (sham) investigation needs to be fired. The club can't have it both ways, as they are trying to do.