Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Devil You Know]

Corresponds with what a friend of mine from the club scene in Manchester said last year.

It does appear increasingly like they had a toxic and mutually abusive relationship. Hopefully they've got over it.

 

[Doracle]

The club statement is astonishingly unambiguous on the key point. It isn’t that they don’t consider that there is sufficient evidence that he didn’t do it. The wording is cast iron certain that he did not commit the offences “for which he was originally charged”. That rules out attempted rape, assault and coercive behaviour. They must be absolutely certain that is the case for them to have worded it that way.

I genuinely don’t know what to make of this any more. It feels it leaves a lot of unanswered questions and it will be interesting to see what happens if he does want to continue playing in this country or tries to return in future.

 

[MUFC OK]

mason was not declared innocent. Charges were dropped due to the removal of evidence from the key witnesses. No we can’t try him. However if you have heard that recording and you are ok with it, you need to go look in the mirror and stay away from women because the contents are not ok. I’m not saying he’s guilty of the charges but that recording is disgusting and as a dad of a young female if my daughter played me that I’d be in the car and on the warpath.

You are innocent until proven guilty - you can be either innocent or guilty. He was effectively declared innocent when the case was dropped legally at least. There is no third category. You can form your own opinions but that’s all they are. Right decision in the circumstances but he is not a guilty man.

 

[ExoduS]

Great move. Get him the feck out. He will reoffend sooner or later.

 

[December_16]

Imagine your career going to shit because you were stupid enough to land yourself in this sort of mess, but you're still actively sharing the same space and now have a baby with the same girl that's at centre of all this drama.

Menh love is really blind and toxic as feck.

It’s just so weird.

 

[gerdm07]

I don’t think that they say that though. It’s a deliberately vague statement.

Richard Arnold wrote "While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with."

 

[Red 142]

Yeah, there were apparently loads of posts and it was well known how mutually toxic the relationship was. I think the United statement intimates that.

Here are a couple of the forum posts. I've edited out the girl invoved's name:

1

2

There were 15 screenshots on Reddit. Orla Sloan, the girl they mention a few times, was the girl who was recently in court for stalking Mason Mount.

That's not a surprise at all.

Are there any of those reddit links or screenshots still around showing Greenwood's gf hanging out with Orla Sloan? A vindictive manipulator covered in makeup?!

The term "alleged victim" is likely apt.

Sounds like a Depp and Heard type situation in a few ways then, with neither of them completely saints.

 

[Redfan94]

So it's MORALLY OKAY for him to play with any other club - just not at United ?!

Yes, that is literally the argument.

 

[Cassidy]

You are innocent until proven guilty - you can be either innocent or guilty. He was effectively declared innocent when the case was dropped legally at least. There is no third category. You can form your own opinions but that’s all they are. Right decision in the circumstances but he is not a guilty man.

Thats not true.
There is a third option, charges being dropped is not a declaration of innocence, its a declaration that there is not enough evidence to convict.
In some cases that may mean innocence and in some cases it may not

I'm not saying Greenwood is guilty by the way, just pointing out what you're saying is incorrect

 

[arnie_ni]

The club statement is astonishingly unambiguous on the key point. It isn’t that they don’t consider that there is sufficient evidence that he didn’t do it. The wording is cast iron certain that he did not commit the offences “for which he was originally charged”. That rules out attempted rape, assault and coercive behaviour. They must be absolutely certain that is the case for them to have worded it that way.

I genuinely don’t know what to make of this any more. It feels it leaves a lot of unanswered questions and it will be interesting to see what happens if he does want to continue playing in his country or tries to return in future.

Exactly what I'm saying. They had no reason to word it like that. To me, they are 100 percent certain it didn't happen

 

[Cassidy]

I don’t think that they say that though. It’s a deliberately vague statement.

Nothing vague about it:

Richard Arnold wrote "While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with."

 

[pocco]

Heard this theory before, but according to Richard Arnold, she asked police to withdraw the investigation as early as April 2022.

Apparently her dad told her not to go to the police at all. Or that's what I heard at the time from people connected to the youth team. They also told me that United were desperate to make it go away and willing to offer her money.

How much of that is true I don't know. But even a quick change of mind doesn't mean a thing in these situations. Most women don't report it in the first place.

 

[Resch]

...That would basically mean she lied...

Some people have "strange" sometimes toxic relationships, most people do not understand. They fight and hurt each other physically and mentally. Both are offender and victim. Such relationships cannot be judged by a tape of a foto, they are far too complex.

 

[golden_blunder]

Got an email from the boss

Dear GB Now that we have concluded and announced the outcome of the club's investigation into Mason Greenwood, I want to be direct and transparent with our fans about the process and the reasons for our decision. This was an internal disciplinary investigation between employer and employee which would ordinarily take place outside of the public eye. Given the public nature of the allegations and Mason's profile, I acknowledge that this was not an ordinary situation, but I felt it important that we still follow due process and, so far as possible, avoid media comment until I had made a definitive decision. When audio footage and imagery was posted online in January 2022, my feelings were of shock and concern for the alleged victim. Her welfare, wishes and perspective have been central to the club's approach ever since, as have the club’s standards and values. While we immediately concluded that Mason should be suspended pending investigation, we were also conscious of our duty of care towards him and the importance of making a decision based on full information. Until February this year, this was a matter for the police and the Crown Prosecution Service. It was only when charges were dropped that the club discussed the allegations with Mason and others involved in the case. Our investigation sought to collate as much evidence as possible to establish facts and context. This was not a quick or straightforward process for a variety of reasons. It was essential for us to respect the rights and wishes of the alleged victim. Also, we have limited powers of investigation which meant we were reliant on third party cooperation. Timings have also been influenced by my desire to minimise the impact of the investigation on our men's and women's teams, as well as our Lionesses. I acknowledge that this gave more time for speculation, but the alternative would have been to compromise due process or create untimely disruption. While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with. I am restricted as to what I can say for legal reasons, including the alleged victim's ongoing right to anonymity, but I am able to share the following with you which should give you some insight into the complexity of this case: The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022. We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online. The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings. Last week the media reported that we had decided to reintegrate Mason and that elements of a plan to do so had been leaked to them. Reintegration was one of the outcomes we considered and planned for. For context, over the course of the past six months several outcomes have been contemplated and planned for, and my view has evolved as our process progressed. While the ultimate decision rested with me, I was taking various factors and views into account right up until the point of finalising my decision. While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with, Mason’s accepted that he has made mistakes which he takes responsibility for. I am also mindful of the challenge that Mason would face rebuilding his career and raising a baby together with his partner in the harsh spotlight of Manchester United. Further, this case has provoked strong opinions, and it is my responsibility to minimise any distraction to the unity we are seeking within the club. Although we have decided that Mason will seek to rebuild his career away from Manchester United, that does not signal the end of this matter. The club will continue to offer its support both to the alleged victim and Mason to help them rebuild and move forward positively with their lives. Thank you for your continued support,​

Richard Arnold Chief Executive Officer​

 

[OverratedOpinion]

You are innocent until proven guilty - you can be either innocent or guilty. He was effectively declared innocent when the case was dropped legally at least. There is no third category. You can form your own opinions but that’s all they are. Right decision in the circumstances but he is not a guilty man.

You literally bolded the statement.

Saying he was DECLARED innocent indicates that a process took place in which a declaration was made. That is drastically different which you know and if you are trying to paint what happened as such then you are being deliberately obtuse.

 

[JezChan]

Great move. Get him the feck out. He will reoffend sooner or later.

I can't stand by this kind of thinking. I agree with getting MG out - the public information is that MG said misogynistic things that have no place in society.

To say that he will reoffend sooner or later - I categorically reject that people can't experience remorse, receive support, and change. It is difficult to do, but not impossible. I'd rather live with hope for a brighter future than cynically view the world and people in it as irredeemable.

 

[Red in STL]

They only way this had a chance of happening was by publicly releasing their full report including the other evidence that they have found.

Any evidence that they have seen that is not currently public is almost certainly the evidence that the CPS has shown them, if that is the case then they cannot legally disclose that information publicly

 

[Doracle]

Thats not true.
There is a third option, charges being dropped is not a declaration of innocence, its a declaration that there is not enough evidence to convict.
In some cases that may mean innocence and in some cases it may not

I'm not saying Greenwood is guilty by the way, just pointing out what you're saying is incorrect

If there isn’t sufficient evidence then in the eyes of law you are innocent. That’s the only way a civilised country can operate.

 

[arnie_ni]

Was it her herself who released the video and pics or someone else? I can't recall.

 

[arnie_ni]

Any evidence that they have seen that is not currently public is almost certainly the evidence that the CPS has shown them, if that is the case then they cannot legally disclose that information publicly

If the CPS can show them, why can't it be shown to everyone else?

 

[Cassidy]

If there isn’t sufficient evidence then in the eyes of law you are innocent. That’s the only way a civilised country can operate.

Never said that was not true.
Its not a declaration of innocence as the OP said though, the 2 things are clearly different.

 

[golden_blunder]

Was it her herself who released the video and pics or someone else? I can't recall.

Her

 

[TheGame]

I can't stand by this kind of thinking. I agree with getting MG out - the public information is that MG said misogynistic things that have no place in society.

To say that he will reoffend sooner or later - I categorically reject that people can't experience remorse, receive support, and change. It is difficult to do, but not impossible. I'd rather live with hope for a brighter future than cynically view the world and people in it as irredeemable.

So you've seen the pictures and heard the recording and that's all you've concluded he said?

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Thats not true.
There is a third option, charges being dropped is not a declaration of innocence, its a declaration that there is not enough evidence to convict.
In some cases that may mean innocence and in some cases it may not

I'm not saying Greenwood is guilty by the way, just pointing out what you're saying is incorrect

But then Manchester United have now had access to far more information than anyone on this forum and they have stated in writing that there was enough evidence to show that he didn’t do it, not that there wasn’t enough evidence to take to court.

 

[Cassidy]

If the CPS can show them, why can't it be shown to everyone else?

Its already been explained, the anonymity of the victim has to be maintained by law

 

[Redlambs]

Was it her herself who released the video and pics or someone else? I can't recall.

Apparently her in the early hours of the morning. Nothing has disputed that and Greenwood's statement seems to confirm it.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Got an email from the boss

​ Dear GB Now that we have concluded and announced the outcome of the club's investigation into Mason Greenwood, I want to be direct and transparent with our fans about the process and the reasons for our decision. This was an internal disciplinary investigation between employer and employee which would ordinarily take place outside of the public eye. Given the public nature of the allegations and Mason's profile, I acknowledge that this was not an ordinary situation, but I felt it important that we still follow due process and, so far as possible, avoid media comment until I had made a definitive decision. When audio footage and imagery was posted online in January 2022, my feelings were of shock and concern for the alleged victim. Her welfare, wishes and perspective have been central to the club's approach ever since, as have the club’s standards and values. While we immediately concluded that Mason should be suspended pending investigation, we were also conscious of our duty of care towards him and the importance of making a decision based on full information. Until February this year, this was a matter for the police and the Crown Prosecution Service. It was only when charges were dropped that the club discussed the allegations with Mason and others involved in the case. Our investigation sought to collate as much evidence as possible to establish facts and context. This was not a quick or straightforward process for a variety of reasons. It was essential for us to respect the rights and wishes of the alleged victim. Also, we have limited powers of investigation which meant we were reliant on third party cooperation. Timings have also been influenced by my desire to minimise the impact of the investigation on our men's and women's teams, as well as our Lionesses. I acknowledge that this gave more time for speculation, but the alternative would have been to compromise due process or create untimely disruption. While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with. I am restricted as to what I can say for legal reasons, including the alleged victim's ongoing right to anonymity, but I am able to share the following with you which should give you some insight into the complexity of this case:​ The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022. We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online. The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings. Last week the media reported that we had decided to reintegrate Mason and that elements of a plan to do so had been leaked to them. Reintegration was one of the outcomes we considered and planned for. For context, over the course of the past six months several outcomes have been contemplated and planned for, and my view has evolved as our process progressed. While the ultimate decision rested with me, I was taking various factors and views into account right up until the point of finalising my decision. While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with, Mason’s accepted that he has made mistakes which he takes responsibility for. I am also mindful of the challenge that Mason would face rebuilding his career and raising a baby together with his partner in the harsh spotlight of Manchester United. Further, this case has provoked strong opinions, and it is my responsibility to minimise any distraction to the unity we are seeking within the club. Although we have decided that Mason will seek to rebuild his career away from Manchester United, that does not signal the end of this matter. The club will continue to offer its support both to the alleged victim and Mason to help them rebuild and move forward positively with their lives. Thank you for your continued support,​

​ Richard Arnold Chief Executive Officer​

He called you GB? what a lad!

Thought it was from Niall at first

 

[Cassidy]

But then Manchester United have now had access to far more information than anyone on this forum and they have stated in writing that there was enough evidence to show that he didn’t do it.

I do not disagree with your statement, my statement is still correct

 

[Doracle]

Her

Her father said her account was hacked. In any event, I don’t think this line of queries should be explored.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Richard Arnold wrote "While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with."

I appreciate that, I have read the statement, but it comes across to me as a stopping short of an actual declaration of his innocence. Just my reading of their choice of language.

 

[Hackman2210]

Car crash of a post

Really Withnail? In what way? Car crash of a decision if you ask me.

 

[Redlambs]

But then Manchester United have now had access to far more information than anyone on this forum and they have stated in writing that there was enough evidence to show that he didn’t do it, not that there wasn’t enough evidence to take to court.

Whilst also stating he did do something/things.

That's an important part as it suggests that whatever the explanation of the evidence, he definitely did something. He confirms that too.

 

[yumtum]

No club in the UK will touch him, these are different times

We'll have to put a pin in it, but in my opinion, he will.

 

[pocco]

Yeah, there were apparently loads of posts and it was well known how mutually toxic the relationship was. I think the United statement intimates that.

Here are a couple of the forum posts. I've edited out the girl invoved's name:

1

2

There were 15 screenshots on Reddit. Orla Sloan, the girl they mention a few times, was the girl who was recently in court for stalking Mason Mount.

Thank god none of that will be associated with the club before it catches the public eye.

 

[arnie_ni]

Her

Such a odd state of affairs all around. If I didn't do what I was accused of and it ruined my career. I'd have jumped ship. Can't connect the dots on this at all. From all parties POV

 

[Hackman2210]

£75k per week for 80 weeks = £6m

For context, the average yearly salary is £30k per annum, let's be generous and triple it to £90k.

Would still take you 66 years to earn that and he's now going to play football elsewhere for similar amount.

"Scrapheap"

Yes but we've turned him into a Pariah. All the money in the world wont give him his reputation back. Its more than just greenbacks my friend.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

What level of mental gymnastic? Some of you make no sense, why would someone that doesn't want Greenwood at United legislate on whether he should play for someone else?

When you decide that you don't want to be associated with someone, do you also tell every parties that have nothing to do with you whether they should associate with someone you don't care?

If it’s on the basis of something ‘bigger than football’ & a large part of the messaging [bar 2 flimsy statements] has come from an external source leaking information from outside the institution then yes I’d expect the furore to endure once said person left because it’s not about Manchester United, it’s about ‘more than’.

Put it this way. . .

I would ask, what is it that makes you not want Greenwood to play for United? Bit Rhetorical as we all know the answer.

I’d then ask, given the answer why are you okay with him playing football at all?

I’m not asking people to legislate where he plays, I’m actually saying the opposite. This whole thing for many hinges on the victim, as I think it should too, so him playing for United or elsewhere is to me irrelevant.

There was a decent argument made in the other MG thread about how United position themselves as ‘better than’ so shouldn’t need to scrape the barrel for talent. I could get that. What I don’t get are people acting like him not playing here but literally being available to the rest of world football is a win for United. Distance doesn’t rewrite history.

 

[Hester_manc]

Can we expect that the same thing will happen to Antony?

 

[Red in STL]

Thats not true.
There is a third option, charges being dropped is not a declaration of innocence, its a declaration that there is not enough evidence to convict.
In some cases that may mean innocence and in some cases it may not

I'm not saying Greenwood is guilty by the way, just pointing out what you're saying is incorrect

And just to add, if further new evidence comes to light he could still be charged using that evidence as well as the already existing stuff if the CPS thinks they can get a conviction

 

[Roboc7]

It would make sense to send him out on loan for a year.

Then he should have every right to choose whether he wants to continue at Manchester United or leave permanently. After all, according to the statements, it was a mutual decision between him and our CEO.

Winning/performing well tends to gloss over everything when it comes to sports.

Selling him now would be an absolute disaster and we wouldn't get anywhere near a proper fee, not to mention Greenwood no doubt would go on to score goals wherever he ends up.

Is it so mental to give a young lad a second chance? Especially after he has publicly admitted to his mistakes and is striving to be better.

The feeling for me is we've left him out to the wolves. So much for protecting our own. fecking cowards.

Why do people keep referring to him being such a big financial asset or his transfer fee. Has no relevance to whether he should stay or not. If you are concerned about his welfare and being thrown to the wolves, giving him a second chance and protecting one of your own why are you also concerned about how much he is sold for.

His value as a financial asset went a long time ago, it will always be tarnished and there is no ‘proper fee’ for him.