Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Nope, not what I said.

Seems to be what you're implying somewhat though.

I honestly don't see any defense for that audio. None. And I wouldn't buy any 'role-play' rebuttals either personally.

 

[Spaghetti]

Why would anyone want him to be guilty though?

No idea. Influenced by non-United fans, I suppose, who are using the situation as a stick to his United with.

 

[Pexbo]

This place will be glorious when he has his first 25 goal season.

He could sign for City and have a 70 goal season and it would still be the correct decision.

 

[JulesWinnfield]

Objection: Supposition and Conjecture

No. Its the facts. And the judge even questioned why the police were ignoring him repeatedly breaching bail conditions:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/mason-greenwood-bail-police-ignored-29122334

Even if you somehow believe he's the victim of a elaborate conspiracy, the police massively botched the safeguards needed for a case like this.

Let's go hypothetical, If you were in a domestic violence relationship, how safe would you feel if the system doesn't even try stop the person your accusing from being in contact with you? How much faith would you have in that system?

 

[gajender]

Why?

Alternately you could just ignore the thread and move on with your life.

In all seriousness irrespective of Where you stand on this , its the best advice one can follow lets just move on with your Life .
Everybody is so firmly entrenched in their point of view that a nuanced discussion or debate is hardly possible on this topic without it disintegrating into farce .

 

[Spaghetti]

Seems to be what you're implying somewhat though.

I honestly don't see any defense for that audio. None. And I wouldn't buy any 'role-play' rebuttals either personally.

If you don’t want to listen to possible explanations then that’s your choice. Even United said that they don’t believe the posts to be what he was accused of. But you will probably call that bullshit too.

As I said before, going from my personal experience, I could see it as role play. It was a long recording. She could have got out of the bed if she wanted to.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

No idea. Influenced by non-United fans, I suppose, who are using the situation as a stick to his United with.

I don't think any United fan wants him to be guilty though. Most of us here had him as one of our best prospects ever. We all wanted to see him develop and progress. Most here thought he'd break Rooney's record 1 day.

 

[dumbo]

Am I right when saying charges weren't dropped because he was found innocent but because the victim became unwilling to corporate?

From the CPS statement: “a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction”.

At a hearing at Manchester & Salford Magistrates’ Court on October 17, 2022, the court had heard that the complainant had made allegations against Greenwood following an ABE (achieving best evidence) interview — a video-recorded interview with a vulnerable or intimidated witness where the recording is intended to be played as evidence in court at a later date — in January of that year. She then provided a retraction statement in April 2022, meaning she had withdrawn her support from the investigation.

https://theathletic.com/4790552/2023/08/21/greenwood-man-united-u-turn/

 

[Moston Red]

This thread has turned into a dumpster fire, reading some of the most abhorrent shite. Lock the thread and ban talk of it off the site.

Agreed, not just for the content, but we all need to forget about MG and move on. There’s so many negative things going on at the moment at least we can chalk this one off.

 

[Withnail]

Well its simple mate. If a person is abusive to you its a break up. You do not continue the relationship. Greenwood is obviously stupid but she is not Tina Turner by any means.

Unfortunately, that isn't how abusive relationships generally go.

There are some links from another post if you're interested in educating yourself on the topic:

Myths About Domestic Abuse
https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/myths/

11 Reasons Why People in Abusive Relationships Can’t “Just Leave”
https://www.joinonelove.org/learn/why_leaving_abuse_is_hard/

Why People Stay: It's not as easy as simply walking away
https://www.thehotline.org/support-others/why-people-stay-in-an-abusive-relationship/

13 Overlooked Reasons Why Women Stay In Abusive Relationships
https://themendproject.com/why-women-stay-in-abusive-relationships/

 

[Spaghetti]

I don't think any United fan wants him to be guilty though. Most of us here had him as one of our best prospects ever. We all wanted to see him develop and progress. Most here thought he'd break Rooney's record 1 day.

Then it’s difficult to comprehend why people are choosing to invent stories and ignore possible explanations.

 

[Baneofthegame]

I find it strange how the club said they don’t believe he’s guilty of the alleged crimes charged to him.

Why would you not bring him back other than because of the PR nightmare it would cause.

For the record I didn’t think he should come back.

 

[JPRouve]

Then it’s difficult to comprehend why people are choosing to invent stories and ignore possible explanations.

Which stories have been invented? On this page the only invented story is the one inventing a potential role play situation aka your possible explanation.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Then it’s difficult to comprehend why people are choosing to invent stories and ignore possible explanations.

What story was invented?

I think 95% of people here would scoff at the role-play explanation for the audio.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Anyone else really interested to know what Gabby Agbonlahor thinks about this.

No.

 

[SirScholes]

Seeing as the club, the team and the sponsors were against Greenwood coming back I'm going to assume none of these mentioned will stay around if qatar take us over or that they will never be associated with the Saudi league in the near future........

How would the club not stay around if it was bought

 

[Wibble]

Please direct me towards the official statement which states That he would not be playing for the Club Ever again you won't find any and Even if they actually did that that they still can't guarantee it in future there could be change of Ownership , Different management Greenwood becomes World Class player elsewhere and had his Image rehabilitated you never know I wouldn't be making any definitive statements .

" All those involved, including Mason, recognise the difficulties with him recommencing his career at Manchester United. It has therefore been mutually agreed that it would be most appropriate for him to do so away from Old Trafford"

They don't use the word ever specifically but .....

 

[BootsyCollins]

Well its simple mate. If a person is abusive to you its a break up. You do not continue the relationship. Greenwood is obviously stupid but she is not Tina Turner by any means.

I cant grasp how many people who actually think like this.
I am putting it down to ignorance just to save myself from going mad.

Have you ever spoken to someone who has been abused? Its not just to leave, many stays put. That does NOT means they are a willing victim or the abuse not taking place.

So no, its not "simple mate". Its actually very complex.

 

[UTD_Since_1978]

I don't think any United fan wants him to be guilty though. Most of us here had him as one of our best prospects ever. We all wanted to see him develop and progress. Most here thought he'd break Rooney's record 1 day.

I thought he was a better striker than Rashford.

 

[adexkola]

I think it was probably right that it was open for discussion, but we've likely reached a point where almost everyone who wants to has stated their opinions, and read others' views. So yeah, I agree, this thread (and this issue) would benefit from having an end-point.

No need. The Messi v Ronaldo discussions are still ongoing. It's real easy to mute discussions you feel have run their course.

 

[Chief123]

Maybe it’s actually Mason himself who wants to move on…?

I can’t remember if it was @JagUTD or @Chief123 who floated that idea, but the more I read the statements the more I think it’s a very real possibility…

It’s interesting that Mason’s statement sounds the most final and basically bids farewell to Utd while sounding fairly clear on the matter, while Utd’s and Arnold’s is very vague really and very odd - declaring him innocent and using phrases that make it unclear whether he’s actually properly leaving Utd.

It could well be that Mason and his partner have had enough of the way it’s been handled and also seen the backlash and thought, ‘nah, we’re out’.

Also the state of the club might not be that alluring IF he’s getting offers from other top clubs.



I’d say that’s a certainty given that the club clearly specifies that those clips are ‘part of a much longer recording’ and claims they don’t paint the whole picture.

Given how vague much of the club and Arnold’s statements are, they make it that clear though and even use the word ‘innocent’ in both statements, rightly or wrongly.

Yep I posted it. I’ve only felt it since yesterday with how the statement has come out.

This is just personal opinion, but I just think Greenwood probably saw the backlash (in particular from utd fans which he might not have expected). He may have thought the pressure of both home and away fans against him constantly was probably too much for him and his family. Especially when the alternative is to still play football in another country and barely get bothered about it.

 

[Denis79]

So many people defending MG.... Good lord....

It's football, many things are more important than football.

Some of these people are the same ones who absolutely despise players like Rashford in the match thread. That is ironic.

 

[Spaghetti]

Which stories have been invented? On this page the only invented story is the one inventing a potential role play situation aka your possible explanation.

Yes. We are all making them up. We don’t know the truth. I’m making things up in a positive way.

 

[TsuWave]

Am I right when saying charges weren't dropped because he was found innocent but because the victim became unwilling to corporate?

Yes, but something people often overlook is that the CPS said “a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction”. And the club also mentioned evidence not available in the public domain - to ascertain they don’t believe him guilty of what he was originally accused of.

 

[Raven]

It’s really interesting actually! Twitter want him hung drawn and quartered, Facebook pretty unanimously want him brought back, Daily Mail comments generally on the side of he should be forgiven!

In this situation the ones screaming the loudest tend to be the do-gooders, holier than though, never made a mistake in their lives types.This type of person likes to appear that way to cover up their own faults and raise their consonance levels!

I suspect that there are a silent majority that believe he should be given another chance/ given the opportunity to become a better person- but daren’t say so due to the pit bulls waiting to jus never d,mp all over them for expressing a view!

If not condoning rape and domestic abuse makes me a holier than thou do-gooder that's never done anything wrong, I'm pretty happy with that.

 

[adexkola]

In all seriousness irrespective of Where you stand on this , its the best advice one can follow lets just move on with your Life .
Everybody is so firmly entrenched in their point of view that a nuanced discussion or debate is hardly possible on this topic without it disintegrating into farce .

I can link many discussions on the Caf that have disintegrated into farce.

Most of us have said all that is needed to be said on either side, but some may still want to yap their gobs, and I say let them. If I'm tired I'll mute the discussion and pop over to the Current Events forum

 

[Spaghetti]

What story was invented?

I think 95% of people here would scoff at the role-play explanation for the audio.

Maybe they don’t want to hear explanations.

Everything is invented. We don’t know the truth. The only people who were involved, and a 6 month investigation, say that the online posts were not what he was accused of. Therefore, we don’t know what happened, so every post is invented. Some will take a positive (hopeful) angle and some the opposite.

 

[gajender]

" All those involved, including Mason, recognise the difficulties with him recommencing his career at Manchester United. It has therefore been mutually agreed that it would be most appropriate for him to do so away from Old Trafford"

They don't use the word ever specifically but .....

As things currently Stands I don't see him playing for United Ever Again even if its not categorically stated as such , but in future who knows things can change .

 

[alexanderplatz]

Glad we reached the right decision but it was a shambles to get there. Also happy I don’t have to feel conflicted any time I’m watching the team. Legally there wasn’t enough to convict but politically there was enough there that still wasn’t explained. The club is for all and it’s bigger than one player. Putting aside the horrible accusations ultimately he let everyone down and can only blame himself. I’m sorry it didn’t work out but I wouldn’t have wanted it to after hearing those tapes

 

[Sky1981]

I find it strange how the club said they don’t believe he’s guilty of the alleged crimes charged to him.

Why would you not bring him back other than because of the PR nightmare it would cause.

For the record I didn’t think he should come back.

Because it's the logical thing to do. As it stands there could be 30-70, 40-60, 50-50 sets of fans that are entrenched in 2 polarizing extremes.

Coming out with "MG is a cnut and we don't want nothing to do with him" would alienated the 30, 40, or 50 or whatever % so does "We support MG because he's not found guilty" will alienated the other sets of fans.

They made it tip toeing to give some room to not offend any sets of fans to the fullest.

NOthing to see here

 

[JPRouve]

Yes. We are all making them up. We don’t know the truth. I’m making things up in a positive way.

No you are just making things up on your own.

People who listened to the audio and have a negative opinion about it didn't invent the audio, they didn't imagine it either.

 

[Judas]

Well its simple mate. If a person is abusive to you its a break up. You do not continue the relationship. Greenwood is obviously stupid but she is not Tina Turner by any means.

This level of ignorance and lack of understanding is terrifying. So many adults are so uneducated on this subject.

 

[Spaghetti]

No you are just making things up on your own.

People who listened to the audio and have a negative opinion about it didn't invent the audio, they didn't imagine it either.

Everyone can see things and hear things and interpret them in a different way. This is not an Orwellian society.

United’s long investigation says that he did not do what he was accused of. We are all speculating. Just because you don’t like the possible justifications doesn’t mean that my interpretations are the only ones invented, not does it mean they are less valid.

 

[NicolaSacco]

No need. The Messi v Ronaldo discussions are still ongoing. It's real easy to mute discussions you feel have run their course.

I think it's better to stop them altogether, but respect that you disagree.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Was that proven? Thought the charges were also dropped as with Greenwood. As with RvP also.

Apologies if incorrect, I genuinely always thought that was the deal with both cases.

Thought it involved a couple, the women got him into bed and then accused him of rape and they were going to make a lot of money from the press coverage. It was a set up if I remember rightly. Then SAF put a ban on them having their own Christmas parties. After that they could only have them if their partners went as well.

 

[Ekeke]

Because it's the logical thing to do. As it stands there could be 30-70, 40-60, 50-50 sets of fans that are entrenched in 2 polarizing extremes.

Coming out with "MG is a cnut and we don't want nothing to do with him" would alienated the 30, 40, or 50 or whatever % so does "We support MG because he's not found guilty" will alienated the other sets of fans.

They made it tip toeing to give some room to not offend any sets of fans to the fullest.

NOthing to see here

Utd are beholden to their fans. Not 1 player. Theres no reason to lie to the fans for 1 player. If they dont think he's innocent they didnt need to say anything either way. They clearly imply that they think hes innocent with the statement and the idea that hes innocent but we cant be bothered to try and convince people or change minds, etc is extremely weak. If the club truly believe hes innocent, despite the self report with his own verbal statement in the recordings then they should explain it.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Utd are beholden to their fans. Not 1 player. Theres no reason to lie to the fans for 1 player. If they dont think he's innocent they didnt need to say anything either way. They clearly imply that they think hes innocent with the statement and the idea that hes innocent but we cant be bothered to try and convince people or change minds, etc is extremely weak. If the club truly believe hes innocent, despite the self report with his own verbal statement in the recordings then they should explain it.

Or the club are saying what Greenwood's camp wants them to say in a statement so he agrees to leave the club with no fuss/legal action.

Otherwise they would have just said nothing, which is a far, far easier approach.

 

[Withnail]

Objection: Supposition and Conjecture

These are facts. We know he broke his bail conditions to see her on multiple occasions prior to her getting pregnant, withdrawing her statement and asking them to drop the case.

 

[Sky1981]

Utd are beholden to their fans. Not 1 player. Theres no reason to lie to the fans for 1 player. If they dont think he's innocent they didnt need to say anything either way. They clearly imply that they think hes innocent with the statement and the idea that hes innocent but we cant be bothered to try and convince people or change minds, etc is extremely weak. If the club truly believe hes innocent, despite the self report with his own verbal statement in the recordings then they should explain it.

Because they can't. The legal and moral implications of it does not fit a football club.

They can't say "We've looked at the additional evidence and found him Guilty"

That'll create a responsibility to report them to the police (i think), nor can they say "He's not guilty" because that too means they withheld an evidence that can clear their star player of any false accusation.

My guess is MU investigations is just a 3 man panel asking MG what really happened.

I don't believe for once MG have the evidence that could clear his name and refusing to come up with it

And with all this, saying the wrong thing could lead to lawsuit, even if its the right thing to do. Saying MG was guilty has a very big burden of proof coming from his Employer it's easy to sued

 

[L1nk]

Everyone can see things and hear things and interpret them in a different way. This is not an Orwellian society.

United’s long investigation says that he did not do what he was accused of. We are all speculating. Just because you don’t like the possible justifications doesn’t mean that my interpretations are the only ones invented, not does it mean they are less valid.

Right, they say that he didn't do what he was accused of but provide no evidence to support this, it's just their word. Where as the pictures and audio that first kicked this off are out in the open for the world to see and hear and for people to draw their own conclusions on. If United truly believed he was innocent and did nothing wrong they should have had the guts to backup their convictions in the face of backlash, if that is what they truly believed and had evidence of ofcourse.