Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Rhyme Animal]

Given that I'm yet to meet one matchgoing Manchester United fan that isn't appalled by the fact that we considered bringing him back, frankly most I speak to are annoyed by the fact that he's only been loaned out rather than sold, or given a free transfer. And some of those people have some pretty wildly controversial opinions at times that they don't mind sharing so if they thought bringing Greenwood was an option I don't get the impression they'd whisper it. So I'd say you are wildly incorrect here.

Are you a matchgoer? I'm intrigued to hear what makes you so sure matchgoers would welcome him back. Have you spoke to those around you?

Very odd this.

Genuinely every single Utd fan I’ve spoken to in real life has said ‘bring him back’.

That includes people from very different backgrounds, ages and social levels - from blue collar workers up to folk in education and business, none of whom know each other.

Also around 15 match going fans I know (family and friends in Manchester) also have all said ‘bring him back’, these people are mainly older (Mums / Dads / Grandparents) but are mixed in wealth and gender and ethnicity.

The responses have varied from daft, dodgy stuff like ‘she set him up’ which I had said to me by a lad working in Tesco’s as we chatted Utd, to more balanced, ‘I don’t know the full picture and am not comfortable making judgment on him’.

But all of them have essentially said ‘bring him back’, genuinely.

I was talking to a couple in Greece about this last night, they thought nothing of it, his girlfriend was also very relaxed about it, said she thought it was overblown.

Yeah basically this, this is what I’ve received when I’ve brought it up with people in real life.

Many of these people are far from ‘lads who just want Utd scoring goals’.

 

[mu4c_20le]

This thread brings out the worst of people on here...and the misogynists

Not sure about misogynists but there are definitely people who care more about punishing the player than what's best for the victim, that it feels more vindictive than moral.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Proof of 100% in the clear with regard to any possible crime committed hardly ever exists for any crime, let alone something like this.

Fair enough, poor choice of words on my part.

What I mean is that I doubt Arnold actually is 100% (or close enough) convinced that there's really nothing there that could come back and bite the club in the arse.

So, given that, the media reaction/public reaction made United abandon the original plan (which was to simply ease him back into the first team - I completely agree that this was the original plan).

To be clear, if he had been 100% (or close enough) convinced, he would've worded that statement slightly differently and he wouldn't have considered the immediate reaction sufficient reason to let a potentially very valuable asset go.

I doubt that Arnold even knows the content of the full audio, for one thing. And if he does, I doubt he was pleased when he heard it.

This is - obviously - just speculation on my part (unless anyone should think otherwise).

 

[Em765]

I was talking to a couple in Greece about this last night, they thought nothing of it, his girlfriend was also very relaxed about it, said she thought it was overblown. Same with media in Greece. I get the feeling it's like this in Spain too with the Getafe example?
Are the main reactions coming from the UK where woke/political correctness is more present in society, I wonder.

100 %.
Cancel culture has always existed in a way but in the woke form is a pretty new phenomenon. Its strong but authoritarian at the same time and still not fully worked out.
The thing about it is that there is no path to forgiveness or rehabilitation. Once you are deemed unacceptable you are essentially written off.

Other countries and cultures do it much better, even within Europe.
Scandinavian countries are good at rehabilitating people, southern countries have a more relaxed attitude etc.
Anglo culture is becoming this very rotten thing IMO and this is one example. There is no forgiveness none ever no rehabilitation. Its just so culturally wrong to just write people off like that. There needs to be some reflection about that.
Greenwood can never ever be seen as a normal person in England and same goes for his wife too I think.
Especially given they were 20 at the time, its just wrong.

 

[Raoul]

I was talking to a couple in Greece about this last night, they thought nothing of it, his girlfriend was also very relaxed about it, said she thought it was overblown. Same with media in Greece. I get the feeling it's like this in Spain too with the Getafe example?
Are the main reactions coming from the UK where woke/political correctness is more present in society, I wonder.

This is probably the case with a vast majority of United fans.

Consider that a majority of United's global fanbase (90% as of the last survey) are in emerging markets - with significantly more fans in Asia than other continents. This story is is largely a thing in the UK. Most others see Greenwood through a football lens that is similar to how Getafe fans see him.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

I was talking to a couple in Greece about this last night, they thought nothing of it, his girlfriend was also very relaxed about it, said she thought it was overblown. Same with media in Greece. I get the feeling it's like this in Spain too with the Getafe example?
Are the main reactions coming from the UK where woke/political correctness is more present in society, I wonder.

It's mainly because of how the story broke at the time it came out.
The fact that a video and photos were released showing the violence makes it much more unforgiveable and makes his position at United, England and playing in England untenable.

If exactly the same thing had happened in Greece or Spain with a Greek or Spanish player there would likely be a similar response.

For example in 2011 [Irrelevant point] crashed a car whilst drunk that killed one of the passengers, he then had to move away to England to start afresh.

 

[ZupZup]

Very odd this.

Genuinely every single Utd fan I’ve spoken to in real life has said ‘bring him back’.

Just anecdotally, most United fans I know were ok with him returning.

I have a season ticket as do four good mates. Every one of us had no issue with him returning. Obviously, I am aware of United fans who feel the opposite way… but the idea that there aren’t many United fans who would be ok with his return doesn’t ring true to my own experience.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

However im curious at what level he can be at after so long not playing or training

Yeah, same.

He looks like someone who seriously needs to - as the old cliche goes - "bulk up" for one thing.

Looks like my ten year old nephew could charge him right the feck into the stands shoulder to shoulder.

 

[Artimities]

Has anybody heard how things are going for him at his new club? I am assuming he has not played for them yet?

 

[golden_blunder]

Yeah, same.

He looks like someone who seriously needs to - as the old cliche goes - "bulk up" for one thing.

Looks like my ten year old nephew could charge him right the feck into the stands shoulder to shoulder.

Yep skinny and lost muscle tone. I know he was training alone but did the club not give a comprehensive handout of types of training to keep him in some kind of shape?

 

[TsuWave]

100 %.
Cancel culture has always existed in a way but in the woke form is a pretty new phenomenon. Its strong but authoritarian at the same time and still not fully worked out.
The thing about it is that there is no path to forgiveness or rehabilitation. Once you are deemed unacceptable you are essentially written off.

Other countries and cultures do it much better, even within Europe.
Scandinavian countries are good at rehabilitating people, southern countries have a more relaxed attitude etc.
Anglo culture is becoming this very rotten thing IMO and this is one example. There is no forgiveness none ever no rehabilitation. Its just so culturally wrong to just write people off like that. There needs to be some reflection about that.
Greenwood can never ever be seen as a normal person in England and same goes for his wife too I think.
Especially given they were 20 at the time, its just wrong.

Good Lord. The word “woke” really has been bastardised

Crazy to see people attaching vague - usually negative connotations to it - and just using it to rage at the clouds.

“Argh cancel culture and the woke lot!”

Meanwhile Greenwood is at Getafe breaking shirt sales records and having his name sung before his debut

 

[cafecillos]

I was talking to a couple in Greece about this last night, they thought nothing of it, his girlfriend was also very relaxed about it, said she thought it was overblown. Same with media in Greece. I get the feeling it's like this in Spain too with the Getafe example?
Are the main reactions coming from the UK where woke/political correctness is more present in society, I wonder.

Had this couple listened to the recording and/or seen the pictures?

I have to admit I'm starting to get seriously pissed off at the implication that feeling some aversion to the situation the audio and pictures point to is being "woke", PC gone mad and all the other centrist bingo card shite.

 

[mu4c_20le]

100 %.
Cancel culture has always existed in a way but in the woke form is a pretty new phenomenon. Its strong but authoritarian at the same time and still not fully worked out.
The thing about it is that there is no path to forgiveness or rehabilitation. Once you are deemed unacceptable you are essentially written off.

Other countries and cultures do it much better, even within Europe.
Scandinavian countries are good at rehabilitating people, southern countries have a more relaxed attitude etc.
Anglo culture is becoming this very rotten thing IMO and this is one example. There is no forgiveness none ever no rehabilitation. Its just so culturally wrong to just write people off like that. There needs to be some reflection about that.
Greenwood can never ever be seen as a normal person in England and same goes for his wife too I think.
Especially given they were 20 at the time, its just wrong.

While I wouldn't paint an entire nation or culture with the same brush, there are certainly no shortage of people who would bring up the photos and transcript whenever his name is trending. Imagine being the victim and trying to move on with life and having to see those from time to time, just because some people want to score points. It's mad. Fortunately they are in the minority, though very vocal. I don't believe the entire anglo culture is like this.

 

[VivaObertan]

Given that I'm yet to meet one matchgoing Manchester United fan that isn't appalled by the fact that we considered bringing him back, frankly most I speak to are annoyed by the fact that he's only been loaned out rather than sold, or given a free transfer. And some of those people have some pretty wildly controversial opinions at times that they don't mind sharing so if they thought bringing Greenwood was an option I don't get the impression they'd whisper it. So I'd say you are wildly incorrect here.

Are you a matchgoer? I'm intrigued to hear what makes you so sure matchgoers would welcome him back. Have you spoke to those around you?

Every match going fan I know, including myself, isn't against him coming back

 

[Em765]

Good Lord. The word “woke” really has been bastardised

Crazy to see people attaching vague - usually negative connotations to it - and just using it to rage at the clouds.

“Argh cancel culture and the woke lot!”

Meanwhile Greenwood is at Getafe breaking shirt sales records and having his name sung before his debut

Umm yes that is precisely the point.
Getafe is in Spain. Spain isnt England.
My point is that woke culture, cancel culture etc is an anglo phenomenon.
My whole point is that in Spain and elsewhere Greenwood and his wife can be normal people whereas in England they are stigmatized and excluded in many ways for life and its a cultural problem. There needs to be a path to forgiveness and rehabilitation.

Greenwood can go on to become the best person in the world, give 100 % of his salary to charity etc etc etc but he will always be seen as yucky because of what happened in England.
Ironically his wife too.

 

[Raoul]

Has anybody heard how things are going for him at his new club? I am assuming he has not played for them yet?

Early reports are he's doing quite well. He's been warmly received by the fanbase, has dined with Getafe's President and has apparently sold more shirts than any other player in Getafe history despite never having kicked a ball for them.

Getafe play Osasuna on Sunday so one would imagine he is likely to see some action.

He's also apparently pals with Jude Bellingham, who plays in the same city, which should help him out.

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[TsuWave]

Umm yes that is precisely the point.
Getafe is in Spain. Spain isnt England.
My point is that woke culture, cancel culture etc is an anglo phenomenon.
My whole point is that in Spain and elsewhere Greenwood and his wife can be normal people whereas in England they are stigmatized and excluded in many ways for life and its a cultural problem. There needs to be a path to forgiveness and rehabilitation.

Greenwood can go on to become the best person in the world, give 100 % of his salary to charity etc etc etc but he will always be seen as yucky because of what happened in England.
Ironically his wife too.

What is woke culture?

 

[Cascarino]

Umm yes that is precisely the point.
Getafe is in Spain. Spain isnt England.
My point is that woke culture, cancel culture etc is an anglo phenomenon.
My whole point is that in Spain and elsewhere Greenwood and his wife can be normal people whereas in England they are stigmatized and excluded in many ways for life and its a cultural problem. There needs to be a path to forgiveness and rehabilitation.

Greenwood can go on to become the best person in the world, give 100 % of his salary to charity etc etc etc but he will always be seen as yucky because of what happened in England.
Ironically his wife too.

Rubiales?
Regarding the bolded, what do you mean by that?

 

[MancunianAngels]

It's now woke for fans to be at best, uneasy about someone with video evidence of them abusing their partner playing for United again. Madness. Its PC gone mad!

Also amusing seeing people using their friendship groups with presumably similar social/political views to themselves as a barometer of support for Greenwood coming back. Not one person I know voted for the Tories in 2010 so clearly we've not had 13 years of them destroying the country. Just been a bad dream.

 

[Jazz]

Good Lord. The word “woke” really has been bastardised

Crazy to see people attaching vague - usually negative connotations to it - and just using it to rage at the clouds.

“Argh cancel culture and the woke lot!”

Meanwhile Greenwood is at Getafe breaking shirt sales records and having his name sung before his debut

My goodness I'm so relieved to see this pointed out! 'Woke' has feck all to do with anything it's associated with today. It's being used by some people and institutions to convey extreme negativity. A propaganda tool really. Really sad folks don't know this.

 

[FCAES_7]

So Greenwood was proven not guilty or charges were dropped, his accuser went back to him and are building a life together but still some United fans want to crucify him!!!! That's crazy look at how he is received in Spain and the support he is getting, I'm really starting to believe that the biggest problem in the club after the Glazers are the fans..it's like we never defend our players we can't wait for something negative to happen just to start spitting on the club it's mindblowing. Like no other fanbase in the world attack there club as much as us. I for one hope he does very well at Getafe and comes back to United he is an amazing talent

 

[Raoul]

So Greenwood was proven not guilty or charges were dropped, his accuser went back to him and are building a life together but still some United fans want to crucify him!!!! That's crazy look at how he is received in Spain and the support he is getting, I'm really starting to believe that the biggest problem in the club after the Glazers are the fans..it's like we never defend our players we can't wait for something negative to happen just to start spitting on the club it's mindblowing. Like no other fanbase in the world attack there club as much as us. I for one hope he does very well at Getafe and comes back to United he is an amazing talent

Its perfectly normal for fans to have different views on this topic. Its a discussion forum so everyone doesn't have to agree about this or any other issue, and that's perfectly ok.

 

[TsuWave]

My goodness I'm so relieved to see this pointed out! 'Woke' has feck all to do with anything it's associated with today. It's being used by some people and institutions to convey extreme negativity. A propaganda tool really. Really sad folks don't know this.

Facts. It has been turned into a dogwhistle.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Yep skinny and lost muscle tone. I know he was training alone but did the club not give a comprehensive handout of types of training to keep him in some kind of shape?

They should have. At least after the charges were dropped and the club - by all accounts - at least seriously considered reinstating him. That's many moons ago now.

Given how we've operated generally for years now, though - feck knows.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it turned out they just said: "Hey, look - just try to stay in some kinda shape in case this thing blows over, 'kay? Not too much fast food and do a jog every now and then. We'll call you, sonny. And oh, er...don't do anything stupid either. You know what we mean, right? Good lad, talk soon."

 

[FCAES_7]

Its perfectly normal for fans to have different views on this topic. Its a discussion forum so everyone doesn't have to agree about this or any other issue, and that's perfectly ok.

Yes 100% it's ok to have a different opinions on various topics, but when it comes to us it gets extreme, and I'm talking about how our players gets treated on there Social Media the atmosphere around the club from our fans is rarely supportive except from away match goers where they give the best support. Maybe cause we the biggest club in the UK so negativity sells not sure to be honest

 

[L1nk]

Other problems at the club, match day tomorrow, and somehow Mason Greenwood who isn't even at the club is still top of the forum. People really need to let go for gods sake

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Yeah, same.

He looks like someone who seriously needs to - as the old cliche goes - "bulk up" for one thing.

Looks like my ten year old nephew could charge him right the feck into the stands shoulder to shoulder.

At least he'll be playing in La Liga, where having muscle mass is mostly optional

 

[adexkola]

Also amusing seeing people using their friendship groups with presumably similar social/political views to themselves as a barometer of support for Greenwood coming back.

As opposed to seeing people using their friendship groups with presumably similar social/political views to themselves as a barometer of support for Greenwood not coming back?

I forget what it's called in psychology but it's a flaw people on both sides of this issue are guilty of. Projecting the views of themselves and their immediate circle onto an entire population without more objective data

 

[Chesterlestreet]

What is woke culture?

As I understand it, it's mainly about too many "ethnic minority" actors getting prominent parts in Hollywood productions.

It also has something to do with women taking over the world.

 

[RVN1991]

Umm yes that is precisely the point.
Getafe is in Spain. Spain isnt England.
My point is that woke culture, cancel culture etc is an anglo phenomenon
My whole point is that in Spain and elsewhere Greenwood and his wife can be normal people whereas in England they are stigmatized and excluded in many ways for life and its a cultural problem. There needs to be a path to forgiveness and rehabilitation.

Greenwood can go on to become the best person in the world, give 100 % of his salary to charity etc etc etc but he will always be seen as yucky because of what happened in England.
Ironically his wife too.

What's woke about not wanting to cheer on people who beat on women? Spain is also where black players routinely get racially abused so not really the moral standard in European football are they? Or is opposing monkey chants towards players a woke concept as well?

 

[Red_Aaron]

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By all accounts Jude is an outstanding young man, let's hope they stay close and he can have a positive impact on Mason

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I forget what it's called in psychology but...

Projecting the views...

That's what it's called. Projection. You attribute your own qualities (like, say, being prejudiced) to someone else, being oblivious to the fact (that you are actually just as bad yourself).

It's an interesting phenomenon.

 

[Redplane]

By all accounts Jude is an outstanding young man, let's hope they stay close and he can have a positive impact on Mason

*That we currently know of...* dun dun dun
Real players and the club have had way more controversial events than United so lets see if he can steer clear of that

 

[JB7]

Very odd this.

Genuinely every single Utd fan I’ve spoken to in real life has said ‘bring him back’.

That includes people from very different backgrounds, ages and social levels - from blue collar workers up to folk in education and business, none of whom know each other.

Also around 15 match going fans I know (family and friends in Manchester) also have all said ‘bring him back’, these people are mainly older (Mums / Dads / Grandparents) but are mixed in wealth and gender and ethnicity.

The responses have varied from daft, dodgy stuff like ‘she set him up’ which I had said to me by a lad working in Tesco’s as we chatted Utd, to more balanced, ‘I don’t know the full picture and am not comfortable making judgment on him’.

But all of them have essentially said ‘bring him back’, genuinely.



Yeah basically this, this is what I’ve received when I’ve brought it up with people in real life.

Many of these people are far from ‘lads who just want Utd scoring goals’.

We must hold very different circles then I suppose.

 

[adexkola]

That's what it's called. Projection. You attribute your own qualities (like, say, being prejudiced) to someone else, being oblivious to the fact (that you are actually just as bad yourself).

It's an interesting phenomenon.

Thanks very much, exactly.

 

[Red00012]

Given that I'm yet to meet one matchgoing Manchester United fan that isn't appalled by the fact that we considered bringing him back, frankly most I speak to are annoyed by the fact that he's only been loaned out rather than sold, or given a free transfer. And some of those people have some pretty wildly controversial opinions at times that they don't mind sharing so if they thought bringing Greenwood was an option I don't get the impression they'd whisper it. So I'd say you are wildly incorrect here.

Are you a matchgoer? I'm intrigued to hear what makes you so sure matchgoers would welcome him back. Have you spoke to those around you?

Not sure who you’ve spoken to but I’d say 80% of my match going mates want him back

 

[Rhyme Animal]

We must hold very different circles then I suppose.

Yeah, the thing is most of these people aren’t my friends, they’re just random Utd fans that I’ve chatted to. Some of them are people I wouldn’t wanna hang out with, some of them are people I would.

I always wear a Utd pin badge (Glazers Out) on my jacket and so any other Utd fan I encounter will start talking Utd with me, and the Greenwood issue is a big talking point.

In other instances it’s been people delivering shopping, sometimes non Utd fans but footy fans - they always say the same thing in varying degrees of eloquence, ‘bring him back’, ‘it’s unfair’ etc.

In my family, where there’s lots of match goers, it honestly ranges from Daily Mail reading, old boomers to life long left leaning feminists with doctorates (my auntie) and again all of these people say ‘bring him back’ after the case was dropped.

Even within my family, these aren’t really my friends.

It has surprised me, given the split within redcafe.

In all honesty it’s felt quite surreal tbh.

Also the overwhelming support he’s getting on Getafe’s media posts are all from Utd fans - Getafe don’t even have that many fans globally.

These are Utd fans buying Getafe shirts and liking their posts and supporting him.

You may not like it, but that’s the reality.

 

[Ish]

Very curious and interested to see how he performs when he’s back, how long it takes him to gain match sharpness and if he’s ever able to get back to previous levels.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

It was Getafe. Pretty funny given what was on the reverse side of the shirt.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...s-beef-La-Liga-teams-new-Burger-King-kit.html

Definitely not the best Getafe marketing campaign. Anyone else remember their, well, skin flick?

 

[Canuckred64]

As I understand it, it's mainly about too many "ethnic minority" actors getting prominent parts in Hollywood productions.

It also has something to do with women taking over the world.

To be honest this situation has nothing to do with "woke". There is not a for and against side when it comes to abusing women. There is only an against. Some of those who are against Greenwood ever playing for United may indeed be "woke" on other issues, but their "wokeness" has little or nothing to do with their position on the the Greenwood situation.

As a Christian and a Conservative , I certainly have an opinion on "woke", but this thread is about Mason Greenwood , on what he was accused of and whether he should play for United again, not on the "woke" phenomenon.