Some context: the CPS have a notoriously poor record for converting domestic abuse charges. It’s been in steady decline for a decade but over the last 2 years, it halved. Which by any metric is disturbing drop as crime doesn’t magically stop happening at that rate anywhere. Source - https://amp.theguardian.com/society...ales-halved-since-2015-while-offences-doubledSo: have the police ever said why they didn’t prosecute, or did the United investigators ever say what they found out, or did the girlfriend/wife ever say how what we all saw and heard was not what we all saw and heard?
Same reason as Ronaldo among others. Never close to being proven ultimately so a lot forget/move on.Changing the subject slightly but why is this guy so revered in the sporting arena after what he did??
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...kobe-bryant-nba-star-rape-claim-case/11912250
Becuase there is so many people are claimed moral high ground and they think they are better and knew more than police, judge and his girlfriend herself.We should be considering bring him back, If his girlfriend can forgive him, I mean the actual person who the crime was committed on, why won't you as a person forgive and move on!?
United never explained the information they claimed to have that wasn't public. I'm skeptical it exists.
As for the police, wasn't there someone who changed their testimony meaning there was a lack of evidence?
ThanksSome context: the CPS have a notoriously poor record for converting domestic abuse charges. It’s been in steady decline for a decade but over the last 2 years, it halved. Which by any metric is disturbing drop as crime doesn’t magically stop happening at that rate anywhere. Source - https://amp.theguardian.com/society...ales-halved-since-2015-while-offences-doubled
And in many cases, the victim drops charges and goes back to the abuser. This is an unfortunate reality and something deeply psychological and sociological. In most of these cases, women need the steady income to keep their kids under a roof. Now in Greenwood’s case, turns out his girlfriend became pregnant. Mason was charged in Oct 2022 and the charges dropped in Feb 2023 due to lack of evidence and the victim dropping out. Baby born in July 2023. The allegations however were brought up in Jan 2022.
This indicates that despite Mason being charged by the CPS, they engaged in relations and that eventually produced a baby. Was the abuse continuing? Or were they consensually engaging?
It’s very messy. Mason was horrible for what he did. Mason seems to have turned over a new leaf with the same person. Both can be true.
What comes next? I think we need to hear directly from his girlfriend regarding what happened. That will decide public opinion on this.
Because a lot of people who bring this up knew next to nothing about Bryant while he was alive & quite frankly didn’t care to do the research until he died. They now read these articles & crusade for something they didn’t genuinely have an interest in. This information was in the public sphere for nearly 2 decades before his death. This was not buried & was often referred to as the ‘Denver incident’ when he was discussed so seeing this brought up upon his death seemed strange. Anyone who had even a fleeting interest in Bryant so much as to search his name & click on his Wikipedia could/would/should have read about the incident.Changing the subject slightly but why is this guy so revered in the sporting arena after what he did??
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...kobe-bryant-nba-star-rape-claim-case/11912250
No longer being willing to testify and retracting earlier witness statements are two different things. She did both, but I don't know if it was at the same time.No idea. It only came out when the case was dropped that the witness, who wasn't named but almost certainly is her had retracted her statement some time earlier.
Very good postMason Greenwood is assumed innocent as it stands, and there simply isn't enough evidence to prove otherwise. At the moment at the very least. Noone is ever proven innocent, innocence is always assumed until proven otherwise.
The we can't be sure nothing has been proven argument is the backbone of a fair trial. If you can't be sure prove it. It you can't prove it, move on.
The argument is that by the laws of the land he hasn't been found guilty of any crime, so why are alot of people acting like he has, and actively trying to stop him from re-starting his career?
Another good oneThis is such a bad and harmful argument. You can't take away the right of one man to be presumed innocent because of conviction rates of other cases out of context. Is your solution to automatically give a guilty verdict because other cases haven't ended in a prosecution?
If the audio evidence is the slam dunk some people are stating it is, the CPS could have pressed ahead knowing they'd be prosecuting a high profile target. It would be great PR. The reason they didn't was clearly because they knew the whole audio was not enough for a guilty conviction, despite what those who have less experience, intelligence and evidence say.
I disagree. Between 10-33% of victims do go back to their accusers, so whilst it is uncommon it does happen. I haven't seen any stats which show what proportion go on to suffer more DV in those relationships (although any number is obviously too many), nor whether those individuals were happy or safe having done so, so wouldn’t want to speculate whether that was the right or wrong decision for them.
I'd hazard a guess that factors which lead to greater return to DV abusers would be people who are in more vulnerable situations, such as addiction, lack of economic/ housing freedoms/ possibilities or custodial challenges. But that would be entirely speculative and unless there is any evidence to the contrary, I’d be more comfortable assuming there is no specific reason that explains why up to a third of DV victims go back to someone who has abused them.
That he should never play for United again.It’s up for debate. People are suggesting punishment of some sorts, what’s your take?
Guildford Four, Birmingham Six, Timothy Evans, to name but a few. Andrew Malkinson, just lately has been proven innocent and released from prison after decades.Noone is ever proven innocent
Evan Rachel WoodChanging the subject slightly but why is this guy so revered in the sporting arena after what he did??
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...kobe-bryant-nba-star-rape-claim-case/11912250
Probably applies to Iron Mike as well.....strange days indeed.Evan Rachel Wood
“He was a sports hero. He was also a rapist. And all of these truths can exist simultaneously."
Says it all really
I don't think anyone is acting like Greenwood is in jail, so no one is acting like he has been found guilty.Mason Greenwood is assumed innocent as it stands, and there simply isn't enough evidence to prove otherwise. At the moment at the very least. Noone is ever proven innocent, innocence is always assumed until proven otherwise.
The we can't be sure nothing has been proven argument is the backbone of a fair trial. If you can't be sure prove it. It you can't prove it, move on.
The argument is that by the laws of the land he hasn't been found guilty of any crime, so why are alot of people acting like he has, and actively trying to stop him from re-starting his career?
I'm uncomfortable with saying we the public need to hear directly from his girlfriend (Fiance?). If the partner has taken him back, both families are happy that they are together and Manchester United are satisfied with what they have seen then that should be enough.Some context: the CPS have a notoriously poor record for converting domestic abuse charges. It’s been in steady decline for a decade but over the last 2 years, it halved. Which by any metric is disturbing drop as crime doesn’t magically stop happening at that rate anywhere. Source - https://amp.theguardian.com/society...ales-halved-since-2015-while-offences-doubled
And in many cases, the victim drops charges and goes back to the abuser. This is an unfortunate reality and something deeply psychological and sociological. In most of these cases, women need the steady income to keep their kids under a roof. Now in Greenwood’s case, turns out his girlfriend became pregnant. Mason was charged in Oct 2022 and the charges dropped in Feb 2023 due to lack of evidence and the victim dropping out. Baby born in July 2023. The allegations however were brought up in Jan 2022.
This indicates that despite Mason being charged by the CPS, they engaged in relations and that eventually produced a baby. Was the abuse continuing? Or were they consensually engaging?
It’s very messy. Mason was horrible for what he did. Mason seems to have turned over a new leaf with the same person. Both can be true.
What comes next? I think we need to hear directly from his girlfriend regarding what happened. That will decide public opinion on this.
Such prosecutions just about never proceeding when the complainant withdraws their cooperation because it makes reaching the required "beyond a reasonable doubt" almost impossible to achieve.This isn't necessarily true. Though they could have gone ahead with prosecution they could also have ran the risk of the witness being a hostile witness which could harm the chances of prosecution and thus despite what the extended audio may have been (even if more of the same) they may have weighed up how likely it is they would have succeeded in court and dropped it due to that.
The CPS would presumably be who decided to discontinue the prosecution (District Attorney's office is likely the US equivalent).So: have the police ever said why they didn’t prosecute, or did the United investigators ever say what they found out, or did the girlfriend/wife ever say how what we all saw and heard was not what we all saw and heard?
Mistakes?Remember aledgely mistakes were made that this couple are trying to work through to rebuild their lives, they deserve to be left alone to do so.
Bad post.We should be considering bring him back, If his girlfriend can forgive him, I mean the actual person who the crime was committed on, why won't you as a person forgive and move on!?
Bad post.Becuase there is so many people are claimed moral high ground and they think they are better and knew more than police, judge and his girlfriend herself.
Also, The brand of United is a attention grabber, you can receive a tons of like & sharing when you release your opinion about United (espcially against United) even you knew nothing or only read from news or somebody.
Let's see our new owner whether having a ball to let Mason back.
Bad post.Another good one
I don't know what happened between the couple and i am wise enough not to pretend to know. You on the other hand seem know exactly and have made your own conclusion.Mistakes?
Woopsy. I accidentally threatened to rape you. My bad.
I don’t think you can dispute that he did threaten to rape her. It’s there in public for all to hear.I don't know what happened between the couple and i am wise enough not to pretend to know. You on the other hand seem know exactly and have made your own conclusion.
If they were planning to flip him for a profit then why not? They’ll never be in a position to sign someone like this ever again.Getafe's record transfer cost 12 million euros. It is very unlikely that they offered 40 million pounds for Mason Greenwood.
Yep, football ever day of the week is about 'whataboutism'. Its absolutely hilarious as thats what we spend half the time doing on here. We also celebrate our achievements from the past but for you lets not mention in this context, cause it was in the 70's.Peak whataboutism. A player from the 70s was a drunk with form for DV, albeit not as bad as Greenwood as far as we know, so let's forget Greenwood's behaviour. Nice one.
Freudian slip?Yep, football ever day of the week is about 'whataboutism'. Its absolutely hilarious as thats what we spend half the time doing on here. We also celebrate our achievements from the past but for you lets not mention in this context, cause it was in the 70's.
Even more peak, you grade it 'not as bad as Greenwood'. Ask the wives of Best how bad it was, especially the one that its alleged arm was broken during an argument.
Even more, ask Best son who witnessed some of it.
Bad as it appears, Greenwood remains unsubstantiated, the other is an admission from Best himself.
Great...
Victimless prosecutions are more common now than they once were. Especially in serious cases. This is in response to the fact a large number of victims of domestic abuse withdraw or refuse to support a prosecution.The CPS would presumably be who decided to discontinue the prosecution (District Attorney's office is likely the US equivalent).
The complainant withdrawing her cooperation, plus "new evidence", which hasn't been confirmed, but is rumoured to be family or friends making subsequent statements to the police. Of course I have no way to confirm or deny this as it is just stuff flying around on Twitter.
The complainant withdrawing cooperation is almost always enough to get a prosecution withdrawn in criminal cases I believe.
I don't know what happened between the couple and i am wise enough not to pretend to know. You on the other hand seem know exactly and have made your own conclusion.
Yep, it does. We all at times compartmentalise our view. Off topic but not too dissimilar to Michael J, some still listen to his music but others refuse to, given the allegations. Some believe he's done it but separate the artist from the alleged crimes against children.Evan Rachel Wood
“He was a sports hero. He was also a rapist. And all of these truths can exist simultaneously."
Says it all really
Nah, just typo...Freudian slip?
This isn't about football per se. It is about not wanting someone like Greenwood being associated with an entity we are associated with.Yep, football ever day of the week is about 'whataboutism'. Its absolutely hilarious as thats what we spend half the time doing on here. We also celebrate our achievements from the past but for you lets not mention in this context, cause it was in the 70's.
Even more peak, you grade it 'not as bad as Greenwood'. Ask the wives of Best how bad it was, especially the one that its alleged arm was broken during an argument.
Even more, ask Best son who witnessed some of it.
Bad as it appears, Greenwood remains unsubstantiated, the other is an admission from Best himself.
Great...
When I heard that audio I was shocked as anyone else, especially given that his partner presented a form of context which implied that he threatened to rape her and also physically assaulted her.I don’t think you can dispute that he did threaten to rape her. It’s there in public for all to hear.
what’s not known is context
Because it's too risky and therefore doesn't make any sense.If they were planning to flip him for a profit then why not? They’ll never be in a position to sign someone like this ever again.
Hes a 100m player imo
If we're retrospectively asking questions of those affected by domestic violence perhaps we need to ask them if the violence that if they encountered was to become public how would they expect the club/fans/media to react to this? Maybe the club knew? Maybe this violence was also dismissed/explained by historic violence? All instances of domestic violence/sexual assault such as the Mason Greenwood situation should be used as an opportunity to stop future attacks, just because they were missed in this past doesn't mean Mason gets a pass, he got exposed for doing something horrendous, if his treatment by fans/media/club seem disproportionate to previous similar abusers then personally I'm not in the least bit arsed, what matters is that domestic abuse and sexual violence is called out, always.Yep, football ever day of the week is about 'whataboutism'. Its absolutely hilarious as thats what we spend half the time doing on here. We also celebrate our achievements from the past but for you lets not mention in this context, cause it was in the 70's.
Even more peak, you grade it 'not as bad as Greenwood'. Ask the wives of Best how bad it was, especially the one that its alleged arm was broken during an argument.
Even more, ask Best son who witnessed some of it.
Bad as it appears, Greenwood remains unsubstantiated, the other is an admission from Best himself.
Great...
This.But despite Greenwood breaching court ordered bail conditions to have sex with his alleged victim of coercion, attempted rape and actual bodily harm I’m sure there’s many a poster willing to ignore he broke the law to have sex with his victim that resulted in her being pregnant and the case being dropped 3 months later at the time of which they would be having an early pregnancy scan.
That’s all just co-incidence…
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Its all about football!!! If it wasnt, it doesnt generate this interest. Someone like Greenwood?This isn't about football per se. It is about not wanting someone like Greenwood being associated with an entity we are associated with.
Seems Greenwood and his girlfriend have a life. They shouldn’t decide on their lives, everyone else should.If her family are protecting Greenwood and have sent her to another country with him, they are as culpable as he is.
This is also gross negligence by Manchester Utd PLC.
Yes agree but as already said 1000x, that only works if hes done it. What we believe it to be true is one thing but where does that stop with regard to our actions?If we're retrospectively asking questions of those affected by domestic violence perhaps we need to ask them if the violence that if they encountered was to become public how would they expect the club/fans/media to react to this? Maybe the club knew? Maybe this violence was also dismissed/explained by historic violence? All instances of domestic violence/sexual assault such as the Mason Greenwood situation should be used as an opportunity to stop future attacks, just because they were missed in this past doesn't mean Mason gets a pass, he got exposed for doing something horrendous, if his treatment by fans/media/club seem disproportionate to previous similar abusers then personally I'm not in the least bit arsed, what matters is that domestic abuse and sexual violence is called out, always.
As is baseless speculation. By all accounts all parties are comfortable with the decision United has taken.If her family are protecting Greenwood and have sent her to another country with him, they are as culpable as he is.
This is also gross negligence by Manchester Utd PLC.
Yup. That does not scream “this is all a misunderstanding and there is a perfectly sanitary explanation for this”.This.
The thing that was the sketchiest to me was the moment her father released the statement the next day.
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Not a good look at all. “She didn’t want it released”, “Their relationship has not been good for the last few months” ??? This is so poor and screams abuse.
You don’t go to the papers straight away when your daughter was allegedly abused. You take your time and try to understand her in the first place.
