Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Raoul]

I completely understand why people don’t want Greenwood back. That’s fair.

But the constant underrating of his talent and ability is just so off the mark.

Two factors seem to have skewed fans’ perception of him.

-Getafe are a shite team. He hadn’t kicked a ball for 18 months. The way he’s performing for them is pretty commendable. Despite it having taken months for him to reclaim his fitness.

-Yes in his last few displays for United, he had the tendency to be inconsistent and selfish, as any teenage footballer would do.

His ability to finish with both feet is one of the rarest abilities in football.

There are only three players who have ever scored 30+ goals for Manchester United as teenagers in the history of this club. Mason is one. George Best and Norman Whiteside are the others. That’s it. That’s the list. That’s the company he’s in.

He may or may not be worth the trouble bringing him back and reintegrating him back into the team, but he certainly has the potential to score 200+ goals for United and be one of their leading goal scorers in history. We are absolutely talking about an elite level of talent. I cannot understand why that is even up for debate.

That’s the only reason the club is even in a conundrum. Else the decision to let him go is such an easy one.

All fair points. I agree that he's been surrounded by low quality talent at Getafe, which for someone who was out of the game for 18 months, isn't ideal. He's still managed a very good (but not great) season given the circumstances.

As for the Best/Whiteside comparison, I wouldn't put much stock in that given that players aren't guaranteed to improve after fast starts as teenagers. The likes of Kluivert and Owen also had very good starts as teenagers and barely improved their goal output beyond that in their 20s, before spiraling into precipitous decline.

Ultimately, this will be a business decision by SJR of whether he can justify losing a generational talent with his entire career ahead of him when balanced against the controversy of bringing him back to the club during a critical period of transition.

 

[Raoul]

@red.knight , @Scanny ,@Doracle , @Raoul ,@NZT-One , and of course, @Gar&Nachos?

No one has you on ignore buddy. Don't take it personally if someone doesn't respond.

 

[MancunianAngels]

I think you’re massively underrating him in this scenario though. Both previous form and his Getafe stint where he has shone in a pretty shite side and been the standout player despite a long time out of the game.

I guess we’ll see but I think he’ll end up at one of the Spanish big three after this season due to the talent you’re underestimating.

Again, think a bit deeper.

The biggest reasons why people want him back are because yes, he has the potential to be world class but also because he's an academy player.

If you were looking at his career now as an outsider, you'd be hesitant to spend decent money on him.

Of course, the overriding factor in anyone being interested in him is that he's good at football, and at age 22, signing him for 40m could be one a very good investment given he hasn't reached his professional peak and could remain with the buying club for a decade or more.

40 million could also be a spectacular waste of money and he might be playing in the MLS in 3 years.

All I'm saying is that whilst the potential is there, his career could still go in a downward spiral very quickly. Signing him is a risk.

 

[Raoul]

40 million could also be a spectacular waste of money and he might be playing in the MLS in 3 years.

All I'm saying is that whilst the potential is there, his career could still go in a downward spiral very quickly. Signing him is a risk.

Unless he has lost his ability to play football, the risk is very low, especially if the wages of a new contract are reasonable. He's on 75k now, so even a doubling of that would be very low risk given his ability.

 

[NZT-One]

@red.knight , @Scanny ,@Doracle , @Raoul ,@NZT-One , and of course, @Gar&Nachos?

Mate I am really sorry that you have made the experience you've made. Honestly, if I could, I'd use magic to get rid of every bit of suffer there is.

That being said - posts like yours add no real value to the debate (at least not from my perspective). Feels more like you are just stirring a bowl of waste and fish for conflict. Again, I am really sorry that you made such experiences and I can totally see that a case like this can and will remind you of that. But don't be angry at other people that they have a different perspective than you, other people have made different experiences, different traumas. Very few debates get better when people bring their personal stuff into it.

Lets leave it at that. I think it is safe to say that almost anybody knows your stance. Its legit to have it and to promote it. But not because it is so grand on a moral scale. But because peoples opinions deserve respect alltogether.

 

[Lash]

Mate I am really sorry that you have made the experience you've made. Honestly, if I could, I'd use magic to get rid of every bit of suffer there is.

That being said - posts like yours add no real value to the debate (at least not from my perspective). Feels more like you are just stirring a bowl of waste and fish for conflict. Again, I am really sorry that you made such experiences and I can totally see that a case like this can and will remind you of that. But don't be angry at other people that they have a different perspective than you, other people have made different experiences, different traumas. Very few debates get better when people bring their personal stuff into it.

Lets leave it at that. I think it is safe to say that almost anybody knows your stance. Its legit to have it and to promote it. But not because it is so grand on a moral scale. But because peoples opinions deserve respect altogether.

Problem is, no one is actually engaging with the posters experience in relation to this situation.

Everyone says, "I am sorry and understand why you feel that way", but then stop short of actually saying what they actually mean - which is they don't really care, because they want him back.

 

[brontelicious]

Problem is, no one is actually engaging with the posters experience in relation to this situation.

Everyone says, "I am sorry and understand why you feel that way", but then stop short of actually saying what they actually mean - which is they don't really care, because they want him back.

Stop being sanctimonious and moralising at us with your sanctimonious moralising.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Problem is, no one is actually engaging with the posters experience in relation to this situation.

Everyone says, "I am sorry and understand why you feel that way", but then stop short of actually saying what they actually mean - which is they don't really care, because they want him back.

I did say what I actually meant, and it immediately upset someone. When there are guard dogs in the thread, its difficult to engage in meaningful conversations.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

So reading that Murtough and Hargreaves have been on a tour of Barcelona, Madrid, and Getafe this week. Surely trying to offload this guy to one of them. That would be a nice parting gift from Murtough.

 

[Lash]

I did say what I actually meant, and it immediately upset someone. When there are guard dogs in the thread, its difficult to engage in meaningful conversations.

I'm not really sure how you were trying to engage in meaningful conversation, but you at least said what you meant. I personally don't agree with what you said at all, but at least you're not feigning like you care.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Again, think a bit deeper.

The biggest reasons why people want him back are because yes, he has the potential to be world class but also because he's an academy player.

If you were looking at his career now as an outsider, you'd be hesitant to spend decent money on

I don’t need to look or think any deeper.
The main reason anyone wants to have him in their football team is because he is an immense talent and goalscorer.
You say yourself that he has the potential to be world-class and teams like Manchester United will pay 65 million + for players like Højlund, who hadn’t done a smidgen of what Greenwood has due to potential.

I have no doubt the Barcelona and Atletico Madrid are looking at him, and that tells you everything you need to know because he wasn’t one of their academy players. 40 million buys you feck all today, so getting someone with that talent would absolutely interest everyone, and I’d argue we (fans & club) are way more likely to not want him due to what happened under our watch. Better still for them is that they all have an opportunity to bargain that price down, something that without his baggage would never be remotely possible that’s why Liz get him on very very cheap wages for a player like him.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I'm not really sure how you were trying to engage in meaningful conversation, but you at least said what you meant. I personally don't agree with what you said at all, but at least you're not feigning like you care.

I was trying to be direct, I realize it could easily come off as rude, so if @Peter van der Gea was offended then I apologize. I genuinely thought the poster was more upset and/or confused at not getting replies, so given the nature of their previous debates, I answered how i felt was the reason.

 

[Raoul]

So reading that Murtough and Hargreaves have been on a tour of Barcelona, Madrid, and Getafe this week. Surely trying to offload this guy to one of them. That would be a nice parting gift from Murtough.

Luckhurst and Romano seem to think the Barca trip was a nothing burger.

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[Raiden Shogun]

United trying to palm this guy off to a top La Liga club I guess, I can see him ending up in Italy at one of the Milan clubs. Don't think Barca would touch him with a barge pole.. it's one thing for him to go relatively under the radar in Spain at Getafe but once he joins a big club, the bad PR is going to swarm said club. Doubt Barca femení would be too thrilled either if he represented the club.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

They were hoping they could get away with saying next to nothing and hiding behind the couple now wanting privacy.

Bingo.

But as it turned out, they had underestimated the likely degree of scrutiny they might be subjected to if they did welcome Greenwood back.

Someone (they should get a medal, someone with half a brain) convinced them it was a bad idea.

Point being: this didn't happen because United were afraid of Rachel Riley. It happened because their "investigation" is worth feck all. It didn't amount to anything they could possibly use in a scenario where the club came under fire for bringing Greenwood back.

 

[Rood]

I meant from the perspective of the board, if they all decided he should move on in the summer based of the public reaction, why would that change now?

Because the public reaction will change if the club do a better job of explaining the details of the internal investigation and get an interview

 

[brontelicious]

Because the public reaction will change if the club do a better job of explaining the details of the internal investigation and get an interview

Again, any interview is essentially meaningless if there is no scrutiny during the interview. People will know if it is PR guff.

Same goes for doing 'a better job of explaining the details of the investigation'.

If it's Mason's voice threatening rape (it is) then there's no better way of explaining anything.

He's got to go.

 

[brontelicious]

Luckhurst and Romano seem to think the Barca trip was a nothing burger.

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I'd imagine Barca realised they too will receive a backlash for signing this type of player, especially after a club legend was recently banged up for similar.

 

[Leftback99]

United trying to palm this guy off to a top La Liga club I guess, I can see him ending up in Italy at one of the Milan clubs. Don't think Barca would touch him with a barge pole.. it's one thing for him to go relatively under the radar in Spain at Getafe but once he joins a big club, the bad PR is going to swarm said club. Doubt Barca femení would be too thrilled either if he represented the club.

Yep. Don't see you going anywhere near him. There will be no big money deal for him that posters are dreaming of when we get rid.

 

[Raoul]

I'd imagine Barca realised they too will receive a backlash for signing this type of player, especially after a club legend was recently banged up for similar.

Unlikely given there hasn't been a backlash at Getafe. They are of course a smaller side, but also play in the same league as Barca.

A more plausible explanation is there was never a discussion with Barca about the player to begin with, which would be backed up by the reporting of Luckhurst, Romano, and Jacobs.

 

[Scanny]

@red.knight , @Scanny ,@Doracle , @Raoul ,@NZT-One , and of course, @Gar&Nachos?

?

 

[Scanny]

@red.knight , @Scanny ,@Doracle , @Raoul ,@NZT-One , and of course, @Gar&Nachos?

you quoted me on a post about the Sam Kerr thread and assumed I was someone who didn’t think racism was racism whatever the race involved.
I absolutely do think Sam Kerr made a racist comment if what is rumoured she said is true.

I didn’t even know there is an ignore button so there you go again making another assumption.

also - I don’t owe anyone a conversation or reply.

I’ve bothered with this reply as your assumptions about me have pissed me off tbh.

 

[brontelicious]

Unlikely given there hasn't been a backlash at Getafe. They are of course a smaller side, but also play in the same league as Barca.

A more plausible explanation is there was never a discussion with Barca about the player to begin with, which would be backed up by the reporting of Luckhurst, Romano, and Jacobs.

I don't disagree.

Getafe is not an 'international' club in the same sense Barcelona are, nor do they have a world-class women's department. Barca'd factor in such before moving for him.

Bellingham calling him a rapist in the recent match. Imagine that in El Clasico.

Likely never on.

 

[Lash]

Because the public reaction will change if the club do a better job of explaining the details of the internal investigation and get an interview

Maybe, I just can't imagine the details were particularly convincing or they would have just released them to begin with.

An interview might help, but again, it will depend how open and transparent it is. If he does his dance around the "mistakes he made", I don't see how it does anything to quell anyone's suspicions.

 

[Vidooq]

Chris Wheeler thinks that we were in Spain over 40m talks for Greenwood.

 

[Raoul]

Chris Wheeler thinks that we were in Spain over 40m talks for Greenwood.

Is that the Daily Mail piece ? If so, it also says "The United duo were then pictured in Madrid later in the evening following further meetings there. United sources assure Confidential that the talks were simply routine to share intelligence and explore potential deals without any specific focus on Greenwood"....

 

[holdsteady]

Muppetiers and Phil Brown stated a swap for Balde would suit both clubs well with FFP concerns and all

 

[Lash]

Muppetiers and Phil Brown stated a swap for Balde would suit both clubs well with FFP concerns and all

I would take that deal. I imagine they'll want to value them similarly as well, which helps everyone.

Edit: just seen he's bloody injured, not another one!

 

[golden_blunder]

Muppetiers and Phil Brown stated a swap for Balde would suit both clubs well with FFP concerns and all

Would certainly meet the “young left back” criteria

 

[NZT-One]

Problem is, no one is actually engaging with the posters experience in relation to this situation.

Everyone says, "I am sorry and understand why you feel that way", but then stop short of actually saying what they actually mean - which is they don't really care, because they want him back.

Just FYI, your assumptions here are mostly wrong. I have no specific opinion about MG, if he stays or if he leaves, both is fine for me. This thread is supposed to be about Greenwood, isn't it? So is it really an indicator of some... I don't know - weird suspicious behaviour if people do not engage in debates about personal experiences of specific users? I have no issues to admit that all the personal experiences of the other Redcafe users aren't something I particularly care much about. I expect that to be the modus operandi for most users on here. I don't care and I don't expect any other user to care about me. We all have made experiences, some more good ones than bad ones, some really worse ones than others. I am sorry to hear that but my perception of the world is that whether I care or don't care or act as if I care or don't act as if I care - it isn't going to change anything. So I try to not get involved too deeply.

I find this thread to be interesting for some societal aspects, not in a judgemental way, I think it is interesting that seemingly many people really take such things personal. Just as interesting as the whole issue in itself and I wonder how it pans out. Personally I don't really see a way for the player back to us, not in todays society - and that is not me saying I think that is a good or a bad thing.

I genuinely thought the poster was more upset and/or confused at not getting replies, so given the nature of their previous debates, I answered how i felt was the reason.

I thought your reply was correct, that was excactly what my perception of the situation was as well.

 

[Lash]

Just FYI, your assumptions here are mostly wrong. I have no specific opinion about MG, if he stays or if he leaves, both is fine for me. This thread is supposed to be about Greenwood, isn't it? So is it really an indicator of some... I don't know - weird suspicious behaviour if people do not engage in debates about personal experiences of specific users? I have no issues to admit that all the personal experiences of the other Redcafe users aren't something I particularly care much about. I expect that to be the modus operandi for most users on here. I don't care and I don't expect any other user to care about me. We all have made experiences, some more good ones than bad ones, some really worse ones than others. I am sorry to hear that but my perception of the world is that whether I care or don't care or act as if I care or don't act as if I care - it isn't going to change anything. So I try to not get involved too deeply.

I find this thread to be interesting for some societal aspects, not in a judgemental way, I think it is interesting that seemingly many people really take such things personal. Just as interesting as the whole issue in itself and I wonder how it pans out. Personally I don't really see a way for the player back to us, not in todays society - and that is not me saying I think that is a good or a bad thing.


I thought your reply was correct, that was excactly what my perception of the situation was as well.

Ok maybe you don't want him back, but my assumption that you don't care was proved to be correct.

 

[NZT-One]

Ok maybe you don't want him back, but my assumption that you don't care was proved to be correct.

Yes, thats why I said, your assumptions are mostly wrong. Out of interest, do you think, it is a negative thing that I don't care? or only that I do so so openly? (genuine question)

 

[Lash]

Yes, thats why I said, your assumptions are mostly wrong. Out of interest, do you think, it is a negative thing that I don't care? or only that I do so so openly? (genuine question)

No, I prefer you now said it openly, that was my point before.

I personally think you should care, but if you're adamant to not care, in the context of discussing Greenwood, I'm probably not going to engage as I think you're missing a massive part of what his actions have caused.

 

[NZT-One]

No, I prefer you now said it openly, that was my point before.

I personally think you should care, but if you're adamant to not care, in the context of discussing Greenwood, I'm probably not going to engage as I think you're missing a massive part of what his actions have caused.

I know we are reaching an almost philosophical level here but what would it change whether I care or not? I am also not sure how you connect the Greenwood case with the experiences of a specific user on here - in the aspect of the past posts.

Just fyi and I would find it ok, if you decide not to go into that any further, but I don't think any of us here KNOW what MGs action have caused. We can only assume but drawing conclusion from one case to another isn't exactly producing objective facts, isn't it? You might be right, I may miss a massive part of what his actions have caused but there is also a chance that somebody else adds a massive part that potentially isn't really there. You know what I mean? We are all mostly guessing and assuming here, based on some reports, some articles. My point is, on the same level you find it irritating that I might be so "unresponsive" to that, I could find it irritating that some people are as activated as they seemingly are. Do you understand, what I mean? And just for the record, I have absolutely no intention to label one or the other as right or wrong or good or bad. It is genuinely interesting how staunch some positions in this thread are, on both sides. And, ironically, both sides consider themselves as moral - one side as being supportive of the victim, the other side as being supportive of redemption and due legal processes.

 

[Lash]

I know we are reaching an almost philosophical level here but what would it change whether I care or not? I am also not sure how you connect the Greenwood case with the experiences of a specific user on here - in the aspect of the past posts.

Just fyi and I would find it ok, if you decide not to go into that any further, but I don't think any of us here KNOW what MGs action have caused. We can only assume but drawing conclusion from one case to another isn't exactly producing objective facts, isn't it? You might be right, I may miss a massive part of what his actions have caused but there is also a chance that somebody else adds a massive part that potentially isn't really there. You know what I mean? We are all mostly guessing and assuming here, based on some reports, some articles. My point is, on the same level you find it irritating that I might be so "unresponsive" to that, I could find it irritating that some people are as activated as they seemingly are. Do you understand, what I mean? And just for the record, I have absolutely no intention to label one or the other as right or wrong or good or bad.

Well yeah, we're straying into ethics, but without re-writing the whole thread:

I hope you think the recording is objectively wrong, I hope you would understand how that would affect someone who's survived from similar experiences, I think you should ally yourself with someone expressing those experiences and views rather than saying - don't really care, I'm here to just discuss Greenwood and football.

You have to engage with both In my opinion, I don't think you should just gloss over a glaringly obvious point when discussing Greenwood.

 

[Raoul]

Well yeah, we're straying into ethics, but without re-writing the whole thread:

I hope you think the recording is objectively wrong, I hope you would understand how that would affect someone who's survived from similar experiences, I think you should ally yourself with someone expressing those experiences and views rather than saying - don't really care, I'm here to just discuss Greenwood and football.

You have to engage with both In my opinion, I don't think you should just gloss over a glaringly obvious point when discussing Greenwood.

If there's one thing that's certain about this thread, its that attempting to convince others to change their opinion is usually a waste of time. People are simply going to view this issue through varying lenses and perspectives, which only heightens the futility of attempting to convince "the other side" they're wrong.

 

[Utd heap]

Who is posting about this cnut now!!??

Have a fecking beer lads. Get in there

 

[Lash]

If there's one thing that's certain about this thread, its that attempting to convince others to change their opinion is usually a waste of time. People are simply going to view this issue through varying lenses and perspectives, which only heightens the futility of attempting to convince "the other side" they're wrong.

I wasn't trying to change anyone's opinion, but agreed, it does seem to be.

As @Utd heap points, there are beers to be drunk.

 

[Wibble]

Mate I am really sorry that you have made the experience you've made. Honestly, if I could, I'd use magic to get rid of every bit of suffer there is.

That being said - posts like yours add no real value to the debate (at least not from my perspective). Feels more like you are just stirring a bowl of waste and fish for conflict. Again, I am really sorry that you made such experiences and I can totally see that a case like this can and will remind you of that. But don't be angry at other people that they have a different perspective than you, other people have made different experiences, different traumas. Very few debates get better when people bring their personal stuff into it.

Lets leave it at that. I think it is safe to say that almost anybody knows your stance. Its legit to have it and to promote it. But not because it is so grand on a moral scale. But because peoples opinions deserve respect alltogether.

I totally disagree. The perspective of someone harmed by domestic/sexual abuse is highly relevant as the pro-Greenwood brigade don't even acknowledge it most of the time.

 

[Fridge chutney]

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