The analogy obviously doesn't work because prisoners aren't already employed by large globally recognized companies with a brand and image to protect.
Mason Greenwood (Please post respectfully)
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I would love him to return because of the player he is and I don’t trust this club in the window. But I don’t think he should and it’s best for all involved that we make the right decision and get rid.
You are right, but I also think it is a little more than that. If the player in question were a full back, I think people wouldn't want him to stay because we have other options. The fact he is a goalscorer, and a ridiculously talented player, when we have basically played the season without a good striker, explains a lot too. And I get that. You put someone of his talent in at No 9 for the past few weeks or months and we probably get 10 more points and possibly an FA Cup.
agree.
I'm doing the same as you, looking at the most likely explanation, in my own opinion of course, and going with that. Where we differ is probably that I think if they could, despite how difficult it would have been, the CPS would have continued even without key witnesses because it was a high profile case and it's the new evidence that tipped them over the line.
It may well be a cop out. I'm treading carefully for obvious reasons. You've seen some posters almost delve into conspiracy already.
I'm doing the same as you, looking at the most likely explanation, in my own opinion of course, and going with that. Where we differ is probably that I think if they could, despite how difficult it would have been, the CPS would have continued even without key witnesses because it was a high profile case and it's the new evidence that tipped them over the line.
I would guess that the club is talking to all the stakeholders as well as forming its own view. If almost everyone isn't saying there's no way he can come back, I'd be astonished. Frustrating as it is to lose an obvious talent, I think we just have to move on. Where he ends up is his own business.
This point has already been addressed. With a lesser player, the club wouldn't have the same dilemma on its hands because the positives of keeping him on would be heavily outweighed by the drawbacks of it. Of course the polling would reflect that.
We've finally found Jimmy Two Times from Goodfellas
I assumed that the "new evidence" was just that they are still in a relationship and are expecting a child and that she probably was no longer willing to co-operate as a witness and therefore it was just dropped as there was no realistic expectation of conviction.
Not the same thing as being found innocent. A lot of people won't have heard the audio I guess, I found it to see what this was all about and it would make me feel rather uncomfortable having him back, certainly because as far as I know he has never made any kind of statement expressing regret over his actions has he? Couple that with some of the other stories about his behaviour and the thing with the England squad and it paints a picture of a very immature young man with a highly suspect attitude. He didn't seem that way when he was on the pitch for United though to be fair.
I think he would be a distraction for the team and a focal point for taunting opposition fans if he were to be integrated back into the squad and its probably not a good idea.
Not the same thing as being found innocent. A lot of people won't have heard the audio I guess, I found it to see what this was all about and it would make me feel rather uncomfortable having him back, certainly because as far as I know he has never made any kind of statement expressing regret over his actions has he? Couple that with some of the other stories about his behaviour and the thing with the England squad and it paints a picture of a very immature young man with a highly suspect attitude. He didn't seem that way when he was on the pitch for United though to be fair.
I think he would be a distraction for the team and a focal point for taunting opposition fans if he were to be integrated back into the squad and its probably not a good idea.
Voted yes as a 20/21 year old should be afforded a second chance.
However, the return of Mason should be subject to strict conditions, including mandatory therapy and making his contract subject to a condition that any misconduct will result in summary dismissal.
However, the return of Mason should be subject to strict conditions, including mandatory therapy and making his contract subject to a condition that any misconduct will result in summary dismissal.
Why? Because it's difficult to talk about? Because some people think differently to others? Not talking about it is utterly pathetic.
It doesn't sit right that people will excuse stuff because of their talent but would refuse others who are still quite talented the same forgiveness.
Even if we discuss purely MG footballing qualities he will be of little use to us next season. Both Tony and MG should have already played their last game for us, of course for different reasons.
I am torn:
On one hand he was a teenager when these things are alleged to have happened and I am not condoning it in any way but does he not deserve a second chance because whilst i certainly did not do anything akin to what he did but i certainly made some questionable choices when i was a teenager and then the charges were dropped.
Then those photos and stuff are out there and it's pretty damning stuff and it's hard to get over the alleged crimes and the precedent that might set for other young players and what it means for the club reputation
Whatever happens with Greenwood he'll need a rhinos skin to play in England again imo
We also as a club have a statue of a know women abuser right outside the east stand
On one hand he was a teenager when these things are alleged to have happened and I am not condoning it in any way but does he not deserve a second chance because whilst i certainly did not do anything akin to what he did but i certainly made some questionable choices when i was a teenager and then the charges were dropped.
Then those photos and stuff are out there and it's pretty damning stuff and it's hard to get over the alleged crimes and the precedent that might set for other young players and what it means for the club reputation
Whatever happens with Greenwood he'll need a rhinos skin to play in England again imo
We also as a club have a statue of a know women abuser right outside the east stand
This topic was literally read-only for months.
That could work, but it would also need to be accompanied by some sort of PR campaign involving Greenwood issuing some sort of public apology.
Because to the extent that a second chance / forgiveness is a factor here, it's one factor of many that have to be considered.
I'd be interested in knowing the views that do want him back - are you influenced by us having struggled through half a season with sick note Tony and ineffective WW
If we sign say Harry Kane, would you still want MG back?
If we sign say Harry Kane, would you still want MG back?
Fair enough. My thoughts are that it would likely undermine the case and it would be far too easy for the defence to talk it away but understand your point of view and where we differ.
Won't somebody think of the goals!
It’s not really how it works. Let’s say you worked as a manager at S&P 500 company and there’s clear evidence of your wrongdoings. Will you get another managerial job at S&P 500 company a year after that?
I’m really sorry to hear that. Hope that she’s moving on with her life.
I just think that my initial reaction would be very different to her dads reaction
I agree. As long as everyone is respectful of others opinions (without having to agree with them) that’s the whole point of chat rooms. Pretending that nothing has happened is weird!
I don't want him back regardless of the team form and I'm pretty sure we can replace him if we spend our money wisely.
MG would be surplus to requirements if we signed Kane imo, especially with Rashford still here and the possibility that we also bring in Hojlund.
I voted no, because as is clearly evidenced in this thread alone it is a massively divisive subject that the club can do without.
He should be given another chance by a club who can accept the alleged behaviour, rehabilitation has to exist or there is no incentive to change and recidivism would be epidemic.
We as a club cannot afford this distraction in my opinion. It will be horrendous for the team too in every fixture he played.
He should be given another chance by a club who can accept the alleged behaviour, rehabilitation has to exist or there is no incentive to change and recidivism would be epidemic.
We as a club cannot afford this distraction in my opinion. It will be horrendous for the team too in every fixture he played.
Who is saying he can’t ever work again or has no future? No doubt he will latch on somewhere else once he is released.
Yes, it's definitely one of the many factors I consider in all this.
If we had City-level funds and talent, I'd have a lot less pause about letting him go to Juve for 15m or whatever cut-rate fee he'd command.
For no solid reason honestly.
The topic was discussed on other forums/platforms and people lived.
Things can be worded carefully so there's no admission of guilt, I think it's fair to say none of us know the full details, but I do believe there should be a path to redemption, what that would be I have no idea but at the club level everyone, including the women's team, needs to be on board with it
I haven't voted on this because I don't have the facts and I'm not judging anyone without them
On balance, no. I do feel the club are gearing up to bring him to pre season.
No, I was mostly referring to the victim blaming, which appears to have now been deleted.
Certainly if we do choose to banish him I hope our academy uses his story as an example of wasting talent and opportunities
The club minded him so carefully as well I can remember he wasn't allowed to do interviews, almost shielded.
Wonder where he'd go if we do get rid? I keep thinking City would but surely not?!
The club minded him so carefully as well I can remember he wasn't allowed to do interviews, almost shielded.
Wonder where he'd go if we do get rid? I keep thinking City would but surely not?!
No, as a matter of principle. I couldn’t care less about the goals he might score.
Very disappointing that so many of our fanbase would welcome back Mason. Not guilty doesn't mean he's innocent. He is guilty and a piece of shit of a human being. If United welcome him back I will seriously reconsider my allegiance to this club
I am really not for it - but at the same time it really annoys me that we will pay his wages for 18 months - and then he is free to go to any club who will accept him. So the only loser in this is us. I think the fair thing to do is to ask the players - have an anonymous vote. If practically all the players say yes - we should take him back. If several players say no (wont even have to be a majority) - we should let him go. If he causes a problem with the group by being back - we should not have him
It reminds me somewhat of when the Plymouth Argyle goalkeeper was sentenced to prison for several years because he killed two children drink driving.
When he was released from prison he continued his career and there was outrage.
On that occasion, I was actually in favour of him continuing - in the same way as any other tradesman returning to work after serving his time.
However with Greenwood, I'm not in favour of keeping him. I can't seem to reconcile the difference between the two cases, other than Greenwood hasn't been to prison, but then, he hasn't even had a trial. I guess if anything else, it'd be terrible for United's brand to keep him on, but that's not really my main concern.
Really not sure. But I believe highly in the concept of «legal certainty» (if that is the phrase in english?). I dont think I, or any fan, should put a sentence on him. This appear to me to be complex. The idea of him not playing again due to it «looking bad for the brand» is really not something that is very important to me.
If he is guilty, he deserves a lot tougher penalty than not being able to play for Man Utd again. But if that is not certain in a legal sense, I find it really difficult to be the one who rule his future. And I do think it must be the same for anyone in the management of Man Utd.
If he is guilty, he deserves a lot tougher penalty than not being able to play for Man Utd again. But if that is not certain in a legal sense, I find it really difficult to be the one who rule his future. And I do think it must be the same for anyone in the management of Man Utd.
There's a bit of room between "I don't want him playing for Man United" and "I don't want him to be able to get any job ever".
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