Siorac
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- Sep 1, 2010
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And not 5 in total: we would have won 5 CL trophies just in those two finals.Mcfred is the best midfield duo ever. If they had played in that 2 UCL final against Barca. We have won 5 UCL.
And not 5 in total: we would have won 5 CL trophies just in those two finals.Mcfred is the best midfield duo ever. If they had played in that 2 UCL final against Barca. We have won 5 UCL.
They should have been turned into depth this season and then one of them sold next. From how this window has gone they will be both still part of the squad next season.
If Eriksen isn’t suited either, then he doesn’t have to do that either. We are literally in the middle of a window. Yes, we want De Jong. Fine, go and get him then. But if you cannot, there is no reason to settle on makeshift midfields when we are in the fecking summer window. He must have a plan a, then b, all the way down to fecking z that prevents him from going through the season with McTominay as his first choice option. And if he does not, and it is only viewed as a necessity to change on the basis that he can get Frenkie De Jong and Frenkie De Jong only - then he has no support from me. Simple as. His work in the window is highly questionable as it is.
Now he’s after Marko fecking Arnautovic because he’s worked with him before. He has 3 more weeks for me under observation and if I don’t see any changes, for the first time ever, you will see me be the very first to lead the ETH out campaign. I’m not even going to just ‘give him a chance’ to change something as fundamental and obvious as this that I have seen failing for too many years now. I won’t go through another season hoping that somehow McFred can be ‘coached’ into being of the requisite standard.
Quite frankly, if Ten Hag had anything about him, he should have sold McTominay immediately when he arrived. If he is too nice to even drop him, I’m done with him from the very start. His position on Maguire already concerned me anyway. But my patience doesn’t extend to this midfield.
He should've realised McTominay and Fred weren't good enough from watching the video analysis of our matches last season, as well as watching them in training.Even though I can't argue with the points you made regarding signing better midfield players and not fielding feckin' Scott McTominay in a starting 11 as a CM, I'll still urge you to be a bit more patient, because I think (more like hope tbh) that Ten Hag sees today's game, his first competitive game as a United Manager, as a lesson and understands that McTominay & Fred aren't good enough to play, especially McTominay who brings zero value as Central Midfielder.
The new "there's no value in the market" bullshit."only the right players"
Literally anyone is better than McFred.
That's what worried me about ETH, we have years worth of content/data/evidence that shows McT and Fred aren't suited for that particular disposition, never mind the easy eye test that wouldn't even take more than 2-3 games of last season. I don't understand why such easy decision as not to play them both at the same time is something that's hard to do for managers. What's going on ?It wasn't a McFred midfield. It was a FreTominay midfield.
For some reason, Fred was played at the base where he was out-of-position, and McTominay was played as an AM where he's also unsuited.
EtH played them the wrong way around, and only rectified it in the second half when he took Fred off and dropped McTominay back.
I'm thinking Ten Hag thought his system could mask their awfulness. The preseason made him believe that, and now he got to witness how awful they were under his system.He should've realised McTominay and Fred weren't good enough from watching the video analysis of our matches last season, as well as watching them in training.
There is evidence McFred are a relegation level midfield. Let's compare them to other midfields in the league. I may miss some names but the names I will list are those I can remember who will get first team minutes in midfield.
McFred were just about average in Ole counter ball, in this possession set up they'll give away double figures turnover every game which is disastrous. We need as many press resistant players as possible all over the pitch if there's any chance of ETH system working out.
Zidane is one player he can throw into that role, but it might just be too early.
If i was ETH next game I'll be going with a midfield of Eriksen VDB with Zidane at the base. Its either that or just go back to counter ball, because no chance of playing possession football with Mcfred and Bruno loosing their shit every time they are under the slightest pressure.
McFred and Bruno have no maturity in possession, how did ETH miss this?This is a good point, when we were all about counter attacking all they had to do was break up play or occasionally burst forward with pace, which suited their strengths. The way Ten Hag wants us to play will expose their weaknesses.
They aren't good enough, end of story.If McFred plays they should be at the base and close to each other in a double defensive oriented B2B setup. This has been fairly effective for us in the past. It's when managers try to be too clever leaving Fred in deep role and pushing his partners high (be it McTominay, but we've also seen it with van de Beek in pre-season) - things go south.
McTominay average position is higher than Eriksen, far away from Fred:
This is not debatable mate.They aren't good enough, end of story.
No need for an essay.Christ some people are obsessive - you probably know more about what I have written on here than I do!
I made it quite clear in the above post that its not a personal attack on McTominay or Fred. It's about us going into yet another season with them starting as the CM partnership. It's more of a show of dissent against the management/Board.
It is unacceptable that Manchester United haven't signed a CM player for what, 4/5 seasons? That's not McT or Fred's fault, it's all on the people who run the club
What people were doing to Pogba and Maguire was attacking them personally, scapegoating them as individuals.
And by the way...on the subject of Maguire...he was probably our best player yesterday
So going back to counter ball then?This is not debatable mate.
But we are stuck with them for the time being. And we need to figure out how to use them, because we're not bringing two/three new midfielders this window anyway.
Good start would be to analyze how in the past this duo was effective enough to be first-choice over Matic-Pogba for example. As poor as they are on individual level they could be a semi functional midfield pair if used right.
Dropping Bruno for Eriksen would definitely help as well.
He should've realised McTominay and Fred weren't good enough from watching the video analysis of our matches last season, as well as watching them in training.
Doesn't need to be, we can have Eriksen dropping into midfield and helping with ball distribution and progression. Just because our previous managers opted for forward line detached from midfield doesn't mean it will stay that way under Ten Hag. At least we now have Eriksen who can help midfield unlike Bruno.So going back to counter ball then?
Even though I can't argue with the points you made regarding signing better midfield players and not fielding feckin' Scott McTominay in a starting 11 as a CM, I'll still urge you to be a bit more patient, because I think (more like hope tbh) that Ten Hag sees today's game, his first competitive game as a United Manager, as a lesson and understands that McTominay & Fred aren't good enough to play, especially McTominay who brings zero value as Central Midfielder.
Agreed. Every area needs improving, but I believe in this window, 2 central midfielders have to be the priority. McFred are so far off the required standard it's unbelievable. And the lack of players in this position, barring a couple of youth players, is very concerning. We at least have options for most other positions, albeit not amazing ones.I know the whole McFred thing, yes they were shite but if people think signing two midfielders solves the teams problems, they are dreaming. There are problems all over this team which have zero to do with the McFred including a certain Bruno. I’m not convinced with either full backs, seen nothing in Rashford and I think the pressure is getting to Sancho who looks nothing like the player on tour. I think this has become more mental than physical, and the shirt weighs too heavy for the majority of the current side….
No need for an essay.
I was just calling you out on your hypocritical BS.
I think we can get something out of Fred, and its unfair he gets lumped together with Mctominay, if Fred is used as a box to box he's decent. Sign a new midfielder and go with new midfielder sitting at the base Fred box to box and Eriksen.Doesn't need to be, we can have Eriksen dropping into midfield and helping with ball distribution and progression. Just because our previous managers opted for forward line detached from midfield doesn't mean it will stay that way under Ten Hag. At least we now have Eriksen who can help midfield unlike Bruno.
We need a CM that's for sure, but unless we sign two midfielders, those two will get plenty minutes this season.
If McFred plays they should be at the base and close to each other in a double defensive oriented B2B setup. This has been fairly effective for us in the past. It's when managers try to be too clever leaving Fred in deep role and pushing his partners high (be it McTominay, but we've also seen it with van de Beek in pre-season) - things go south.
McTominay average position is higher than Eriksen, far away from Fred:
Garner is another he should use.Why not play Zidane instead of McT? I mean.....kid can't play worse that Mctalentless
I think we can get something out of Fred, and its unfair he gets lumped together with Mctominay, if Fred is used as a box to box he's decent. Sign a new midfielder and go with new midfielder sitting at the base Fred box to box and Eriksen.
We don't need two midfielders doing the job of one.
Why not play Zidane instead of McT? I mean.....kid can't play worse that Mctalentless
Did I just read a poster said McT was decent?You for real?
Fred was awful, could have cost the team two goals.
McT was actually decent.
It is bizarre. Bissouma went to Spurs for 30m, Palhinha went to Fulham for 20m. There were relatively cheap players that were attainable this window.This has been the case for at least three seasons now. Our answer to the problems caused by having a lacklustre midfield always seems to be buying another centre back.
I don't want any more centre backs brought in now until the midfield and De Gea have been replaced. They have been the two constants throughout our defensive play looking shaky.
Sangare has signed an extension to his contract now, also.It is bizarre. Bissouma went to Spurs for 30m, Palhinha went to Fulham for 20m. There were relatively cheap players that were attainable this window.
That is our problem. Most players are best suited to a low block counterattacking tactic. Maguire, AWB, Shaw, Bruno, McFred and Rashford. Maybe only Sancho and Eriksen are suited to play possession football. We will get killed on the counter this season when Rashford or McFred lose possession 5 times a game.So going back to counter ball then?
Great postThere is evidence McFred are a relegation level midfield. Let's compare them to other midfields in the league. I may miss some names but the names I will list are those I can remember who will get first team minutes in midfield.
1. City - KDB, Rodri, Gundogan, Bernardo, Phillips.
2. Liverpool - Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, Keita, Milner, Jones.
3. Chelsea - Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic, RLC, Gilmour.
4. Arsenal - Partey, Xhaka, Elneny, Lokonga.
5. Spurs - Hojbjerg, Bentancur, Bissouma, Skipp, Winks.
6. West Ham - Rice, Soucek
7. Brighton - Caicedo, Mwepu, Lallana, Macallister
8. Villa - Kamara, Mcginn, Luiz, Ramsey
9. Wolves - Neves, Dendoncker, Moutinho
10. Leicester - Ndidi, Tielemans, Dewsbury-Hall, Mendy, Choudhury.
11. Brentford - Janelt, Jensen, Onyeka, Norgaard, Damsgard.
12. Palace - Milivojevic, Doucoure, Will Hughes, Schlupp, Mcarthur.
13. Southampton - JWP, Romeu, Diallo, Lavia
14. Everton - Doucoure, Allan, Onana
15. Leeds - Roca, Klich, Adams
16. Newcastle - Guimaraes, Willock, Joelinton, Longstaff
17. Fulham - Cairney, Palhinha, Reed.
18. Forest - Colback, O'Brien, Mangala.
19. Bournemouth - Billing, Pearson, Cook, Tavernier.
Out of the 19, i'd say there's only about 3 or 4 midfields that they are comparable to. Forest, Bournemouth, Palace, maybe Brentford. The rest are clearly better. That is the midfield that is unchallenged as the starting midfield at a club of the stature of Manchester United.