We play with 3 midfielders so we should have 3 midfielders as depth. Why do people hate depth?
McTominay and Fred, do we need both?
- Thread starter pacifictheme
- Start date
People don't hate depth. People hate fake depth that consists of players being not good enough even for that.
Judging from the injury records of the last several seasons, I think it's to be expected that the midfielders missing at least some six months between them. That's when Fred and McT comes in.
Also we need to rotate more as is. Bruno for example was a spent force at the end of last season due to being overplayed.
Yeah when I made this topic it wasn't about hating depth. You are right we need depth in the squad, but my question was around whether or not Fred and mctominay are good enough or the right sort of players to be that depth.
VDB signing suggests that at least for Fred, no he is not.
I still think we have other issues that need addressing first though, lingard and Pereira for example.
Of course we need both, it’s called squad depth and is something people have been moaning about. So now we finally have some depth in midfield people are questioning whether we need Fred and McT?
Aha, a topic title reader.
If there's a game we need to win, Bruno's going to be playing unless he's injured.
So if we put ourselves in the same win or death situation as this season's run in, he can expect to be playing 3 games a week.
The last contract given to McTominay probably made him unsellable for the next few years.
If anyone leaves, unfortunately, it will be Fred who still has some value. My bet is he will stay this window and will be sold next year.
If anyone leaves, unfortunately, it will be Fred who still has some value. My bet is he will stay this window and will be sold next year.
I agree with what Noodle posted just before this topic got bumped. In the run up to the Covid break, Fred & McTominay looked a better balanced midfield behind Bruno than Pogba & Matic did in the games after it.
Its quite a conundrum really, because as much as everyone loves to think that our midfield would be Bruno & Pogba + 1, there is certainly a possibility that our best midfield does not include Pogba. I do not post that as a Pogba hater and nor do I state that to be a fact, but it is certainly a possibility.
Its quite a conundrum really, because as much as everyone loves to think that our midfield would be Bruno & Pogba + 1, there is certainly a possibility that our best midfield does not include Pogba. I do not post that as a Pogba hater and nor do I state that to be a fact, but it is certainly a possibility.
We do need both, rumours of interest in Fred from Turkey.
Should only allow him to leave if we have a DM in mind or Thiago ready to join.
Should only allow him to leave if we have a DM in mind or Thiago ready to join.
If you put it like that then yeah I am in agreement with you. For now they will do.
It's a very unimaginative and uncreative team which features Luke Shaw and AWB as your full backs, and McTominay and Fred as your midfielders.
Probably quite fitting of the United way after Alex Ferguson, while our rivals across the city are setting up a team to score a 100 league goals a season.
Solskjaer recognises that with his intense pressing style and defensive fullbacks not only do we need numbers in midfield we need quality in depth.
We seem to have a healthy balance and blend in there now. Sancho and a centre back and we are well on our way. The recruitment and strategy now seems to be excellent.
We seem to have a healthy balance and blend in there now. Sancho and a centre back and we are well on our way. The recruitment and strategy now seems to be excellent.
It's not going to happen though, Ole won't put Pogba on the bench when he's fully fit. It took Pogba about 60 minutes to take his position back when he was coming from a very long injury and has barely played all season. This was after this supposedly great form of the other midfielders.
He does have this style and throughout the season it’s been evident, he’s even got martial to run his socks off. He also quoted he wants United “to be the hardest working team in the league”.
It may have not been evident after lockdown and that’s because the squad were out on there feet. He knows he needs quality and we are getting it.
With a reaction score of 11 in 30,000 messages however your response is understandable.
What's with the recent McTominay hate? He's had an injury and as a young player he's bound to be a bit inconsistent.
At worst, he's a good rotation option.
At worst, he's a good rotation option.
The reaction score is points accumulated in the newbie section. You don't get them once you're in the big leagues.
Now that VDB is sealed, I think the question is not around Fred and Mc Tominay, but more about Pereira and Lingard.
Inevitably one of these two will leave.... Unfortunately... or not
Inevitably one of these two will leave.... Unfortunately... or not
Yeah its an odd one for sure. I think the real issue is whether Pogba can play alongside another box to box player or not. The conventional thinking was that Pogba has to play alongside a DM so he can wander and influence the game and still get cover. Problem is that makes a very awkward since it means he can't play alongside Fred, McTominay or VDB. It means we would end up benching Pogba every time we benched Matic, which is obviously not great when Matic might only be good for 30-ish games this season.
However his performance alongside Fred in the Europa game against Sevilla suggests that maybe it can work after all. We might still want a specialist DM in some games, but there's a big difference between needing one in 10ish games a season and needing one in 30+ games a season. If he can work alongside Fred, then perhaps he can work alongside McTominay or VDB too. That opens the door to a lot more potentially effective combinations.
Of course we need them.
VDB was brought as creative cover for the #10 role - essentially replacing Lingard/Pereira and relegating Mata to a minimal role
He was also brought to provide creativity from the #6 role - in case Pogba gets injured. He can also play as a #8.
#10 - Bruno, VDB
#6/#8 (offensive/B2B) - Pogba, VDB, McT
#6 (defensive/holding) - Fred, Matic
Given our injury record and the need to manage Matic’s fitness, this is excellent depth. Not to mention this season is going to be intense.
VDB was brought as creative cover for the #10 role - essentially replacing Lingard/Pereira and relegating Mata to a minimal role
He was also brought to provide creativity from the #6 role - in case Pogba gets injured. He can also play as a #8.
#10 - Bruno, VDB
#6/#8 (offensive/B2B) - Pogba, VDB, McT
#6 (defensive/holding) - Fred, Matic
Given our injury record and the need to manage Matic’s fitness, this is excellent depth. Not to mention this season is going to be intense.
I would not sell Scott at worst he is more than good enough for 6th choice midfielder. He is also very good at coming off the bench when we are a couple of goals up and putting some calm in the midfield to control the game.
Yes. Pereira and Lingard could be sold first
Fred can play the Matic role, Matic cannot play every 3 days... So yes we need need Fred.
McTominay we need for the big games, like we used to use Fletcher, he will give us legs and energy in the midfield. A squad player like him is crucial.
McTominay we need for the big games, like we used to use Fletcher, he will give us legs and energy in the midfield. A squad player like him is crucial.
I have no problem with us selling Fred at some point in the future; perhaps in a year or two. To date, he has offered almost nothing in the defensive third of the pitch and likewise in the attacking third. Virtually all his contribution comes in the middle third of the pitch, winning some tackles, a few interceptions, making a lot of unadventurous passes.
Given his age, his size, and that he has now had a long run of games in his 2nd year at the club, I don't see him improving much on what we've seen so far.
McTominay is different in that it is easy to see his value in terms of the goals he has scored and the headers he wins inside our penalty area. Of course he needs to improve other aspects of his game but I expect him to be a useful player for us for the next few years.
Given his age, his size, and that he has now had a long run of games in his 2nd year at the club, I don't see him improving much on what we've seen so far.
McTominay is different in that it is easy to see his value in terms of the goals he has scored and the headers he wins inside our penalty area. Of course he needs to improve other aspects of his game but I expect him to be a useful player for us for the next few years.
That's an odd criticism to level at a central midfielder.
I hate the idea that winning headers in our penalty area is "valuable" for a midfielder. It should approximately be the 15168267th item on the list of our priorities for a central midfielder.
We've got
DM: Matic, Fred
Deep lying playmaker/B2B, Pogba, McT
AMC: Bruno, VDB, Periera, Mata
The good news is that VDB can play as DLP and AMC + Mejbri seems to have a great future for us. The bad news is that Matic is growing old.
In my opinion we should
a- sell Periera and Mata. If we can add a RW and a STK then sell Lingard as well
b- start giving games to Mejbri. VDB and Fred/McT work ethic allows us to play Mejbri in lesser games
c- start training Fred and McT as a DM. Make it obvious that this is the only first team position available to them cause there's no chance in hell that they can seriously compete for a first team place against the likes of Bruno, Pogba and VDB.
DM: Matic, Fred
Deep lying playmaker/B2B, Pogba, McT
AMC: Bruno, VDB, Periera, Mata
The good news is that VDB can play as DLP and AMC + Mejbri seems to have a great future for us. The bad news is that Matic is growing old.
In my opinion we should
a- sell Periera and Mata. If we can add a RW and a STK then sell Lingard as well
b- start giving games to Mejbri. VDB and Fred/McT work ethic allows us to play Mejbri in lesser games
c- start training Fred and McT as a DM. Make it obvious that this is the only first team position available to them cause there's no chance in hell that they can seriously compete for a first team place against the likes of Bruno, Pogba and VDB.
Of course we need both, every player needs to feel that they are droppable. (I'm looking at you here Dave)
As an example, Bruno needs to see Donny VDB smashing it in training and know that if he delivers less than 100% on the pitch he'll be on the bench next week.
Same for Matic and Pogba. Fred and Scott should be there every day putting pressure on them at training, working hard at the gym, giving everything when they get a chance on the pitch.
As an example, Bruno needs to see Donny VDB smashing it in training and know that if he delivers less than 100% on the pitch he'll be on the bench next week.
Same for Matic and Pogba. Fred and Scott should be there every day putting pressure on them at training, working hard at the gym, giving everything when they get a chance on the pitch.
Of course we should
OP forgot the /s.
Every successful club has a deep bench. One thing holding us back is the drop off in quality between our starting XI and our bench options in some positions. McFred are near starting quality, exactly the level of player we need on the bench.
Every successful club has a deep bench. One thing holding us back is the drop off in quality between our starting XI and our bench options in some positions. McFred are near starting quality, exactly the level of player we need on the bench.
I'm going to paint ye all a picture...
It's late November 2020. The games are coming thick and fast. Our midfield is in a bit of a crisis. Matic has just done his ACL and is out for the rest of the season, Pogba hasn't played in 6 weeks after picking up a knock in the CL, and Bruno has just started 14 games on the trot and is badly in need of a rest.
Meanwhile, Van de Beek has struggled adapting to the rigours of the Premier League and has already had a few shaky performances in his young United career. He needs some help as he starts the next must win PL game...However we loaned Fred to Galatasaray back in September so Pereira starts alongside Scott and Donny.
We lose 1-0 at home to West Brom.
It's late November 2020. The games are coming thick and fast. Our midfield is in a bit of a crisis. Matic has just done his ACL and is out for the rest of the season, Pogba hasn't played in 6 weeks after picking up a knock in the CL, and Bruno has just started 14 games on the trot and is badly in need of a rest.
Meanwhile, Van de Beek has struggled adapting to the rigours of the Premier League and has already had a few shaky performances in his young United career. He needs some help as he starts the next must win PL game...However we loaned Fred to Galatasaray back in September so Pereira starts alongside Scott and Donny.
We lose 1-0 at home to West Brom.
We got the 4 main midfield players Bruno Pogba VDB and Matic. 3 of these will play 90% of the time bar injury i would imagine. We then have Fred McTom Periera and Lingard. I think at least 2 will go. Pereira and Lingard will probably be the first through the door, provided we can get a buyer and persuade them to go.
McTom just signed a new contract and is a player from the youth, so cant see him leaving.
Fred cost £52 mill and for this he should have been a nailed on starter. The fact it took him a season to start playing above average was a disgrace. If Periera of Lingard cant be shoved out the door, I think he will be gone.
We will probably promote another youth player as well over the season in some games, Mejbri maybe.
McTom just signed a new contract and is a player from the youth, so cant see him leaving.
Fred cost £52 mill and for this he should have been a nailed on starter. The fact it took him a season to start playing above average was a disgrace. If Periera of Lingard cant be shoved out the door, I think he will be gone.
We will probably promote another youth player as well over the season in some games, Mejbri maybe.
This is exactly what should happen, even mata is on his last legs,
Ole needs to be willing to take bruno out(and others). I think people say Bruno refuses to not play because he wants to always give his all for the team... If Bruno doesn't want to come out, Ole has to make him.
Fred will see a lot of minute and I'm willing to bet he might play more games than Matic. Going by how Ole ended the season he clearly intends to play Fred as the deep lying midfielder and likes him for his energy. Ole wants to implement the press and going by the Sevilla game, he has something on his hands.
The one who'll struggle to see game time in meaningful games unless injuries occur is McTominay. Ole initially tried him in that deeper role and it didn't work in any level, then he tried Fred and he showed some good things in our last 2 games. If we want to fully transition into a proper pressing team, Ole will use Fred instead of Matic and I see him playing quite a lot this season.
The one who'll struggle to see game time in meaningful games unless injuries occur is McTominay. Ole initially tried him in that deeper role and it didn't work in any level, then he tried Fred and he showed some good things in our last 2 games. If we want to fully transition into a proper pressing team, Ole will use Fred instead of Matic and I see him playing quite a lot this season.
The reaction to Fred is a strange one. I thought he'd completely transformed his career here. Had some brilliant matches prior to lockdown and we could see how useful he'd be to us - especially as a squad player, no less in one struggling with depth. Then comes the return, has two bad matches(maybe even halves) and people completely forget how good he was at times last year. Not only do they forget his performances, they also forget the injuries and performances of his colleagues that led to him getting such a prolonged opportunity to redeem himself.
Every top team needs 2 players for each position.
United play 3 in the midfield so we need 6 players who can compete each other for the role.
Pogna
Bruno
VdB
Fred
McT
Matic
Same should be the case in our defense and attack.
United play 3 in the midfield so we need 6 players who can compete each other for the role.
Pogna
Bruno
VdB
Fred
McT
Matic
Same should be the case in our defense and attack.
Fred is much more useful against the bottom half than mctominay. Surely he and matic are both cover for themselves. Madness that the club will even consider selling Fred given we have no other competent deep lying playmaker other than matic?
the way I see it van de beer is cover for pogba and Bruno. He can play CAM and CM. He will take mctominays minutes more than Free who plays deeper for us.
the way I see it van de beer is cover for pogba and Bruno. He can play CAM and CM. He will take mctominays minutes more than Free who plays deeper for us.
Was it not just recently that he had a great game against Sevilla? Our attackers let us down and now we have forgotten how useful he is to the team. In a possessive and counter attacking team Fred is useful while mctominay is only useful in a counterattacking team.