Messi is better than maradona....

Jopub said:
Hang on where do you get that from ?

where do I say that?

And don't scuttle off and disappear - where did I say that ?

You were bigging it that we were "pwned" by Barca only two days after they completely and utterly globally dismantled, dissected and fking humiliated you.

How fking stupid is that :lol:
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not as stupid as still be licking my wounds after over a year

19
 
MacMUFC said:
I've heard my relatives say Best was better too, which just leaves my head spinning tbh. I dont know, its way too difficult to compare players from different eras and thats the truth, because its impossible to find an answer; too many varying factors.
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Spot on, it is impossible to compare, but i would say that Messi reminds me more of Best than he does Maradona. Maradona was as skilful as any player i have seen, he could do amazing things with the ball at his feet. But imo he was much more a midfield maestro than a goalscoring winger.

Best and Messi have similar explosive acceleration, close control and finishing ability, although i have to point out that Best was quicker over long distances, 2 footed, could defend and tackle like a midfielder and was also a very good header of the ball.

Best's only weakness really was off the pitch rather than on it, there was nothing he couldn't do on a football pitch. (apart from train i suppose). ;)

If you get chance check out this goal against Fort Lauderdale in 1981, when he simply waltzes through a mass of defenders using balance and skill rather than pace. What some people may not realise is that Best was actually 35 at this point, hardly trained, was way past his prime and all after 15yrs of living a party lifestyle that made Ronnie Wood look like Cliff Richard! Amazing talent!

YouTube - ‪George Best: Greatest NASL Goal Ever‬‏
 
marcosdeto said:
jopub is an arsenal fan that still crying over messi raping the gunners six times in the last four games they played
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yeah I know all the gooners are still touchy about that. But I honestly thought when he mentioned Stoke, he could have picked Bolton or whatever mediocre team that is more anti-football than playing the match.

I respect your points that you feel the English weather would not be a factor. But that is why these discussions are interesting. I always think of Spain as being a less unwelcoming place to play the game.
 
Red Dreams said:
yeah I know all the gooners are still touchy about that. But I honestly thought when he mentioned Stoke, he could have picked Bolton or whatever mediocre team that is more anti-football than playing the match.

I respect your points that you feel the English weather would not be a factor. But that is why these discussions are interesting. I always think of Spain as being a less unwelcoming place to play the game.
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i know, i'm just teasing him, he wont back off so i'll laugh at him and his stupid assumptions

anyway, is ridiculous to think that messi only played against teams only interested in playing football and under normal weather conditions

and as someone pointed out earlier, the cold weather is not as bad as the hot one to play football

i'd like to see van persie playing in the 45 degrees of sevilla sun :smirk:
 
marcosdeto said:
i know, i'm just teasing him, he wont back off so i'll laugh at him and his stupid assumptions

anyway, is ridiculous to think that messi only played against teams only interested in playing football and under normal weather conditions

and as someone pointed out earlier, the cold weather is not as bad as the hot one to play football

i'd like to see van persie playing in the 45 degrees of sevilla sun :smirk:
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I will hold my hands up and say I dont particularly watch Spanish football..unless the big two are involved. Even then I prefer the all out action of the Prem.

But I do remember the likes of Ronaldo and Ruud when they went to Spain, scoring a lot more goals than they did here. Correct me if I am wrong. To me that meant an 'easier' league??
 
i dont know, ronaldo and messi scored a shitload of goals, but the third top scorer only did it 20 times, and many of them were from penalty kicks, so i think that maybe is not a matter of an easy league, but of sensational players

how about villa, ibrahimovic and henry that didn't increas their goal tally?
 
Van Nistelrooy scored 21 in 28 starts in his last season here, 25 in 36 starts in his first season there. 16 in 22 and 4 in 6 in his next two.
 
Brwned said:
Van Nistelrooy scored 21 in 28 starts in his last season here, 25 in 36 starts in his first season there. 16 in 22 and 4 in 6 in his next two.
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not much of a difference, uh? ronaldo scored 42 goals with us, so he can be in an easier league or just improving

anyway, the point is that messi wouldnt make it against stoke in a cold winter night

that thought is keeping messi awake at nights, he thinks and thinks and thinks,

and still cant understand how someone could say something that moronic
 
This thread was interesting at one point of time. Now it seems to have gone down the way of all the other comparison threads.
 
Red Dreams said:
I will hold my hands up and say I dont particularly watch Spanish football..unless the big two are involved. Even then I prefer the all out action of the Prem.

But I do remember the likes of Ronaldo and Ruud when they went to Spain, scoring a lot more goals than they did here. Correct me if I am wrong. To me that meant an 'easier' league??
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I would point out Fernando Torres who took the piss in the Prem in his first 2 seasons but was only above average at Atletico but then..



Chelsea..
 
marcosdeto said:
not much of a difference, uh? ronaldo scored 42 goals with us, so he can be in an easier league or just improving

anyway, the point is that messi wouldnt make it against stoke in a cold winter night

that thought is keeping messi awake at nights, he thinks and thinks and thinks,

and still cant understand how someone could say something that moronic
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you seem to be obsessed with that Stoke thing, move on, it's clear that Messi is brilliant enough to be too good for any defence, as long as the referee protects him from brutal fouls and challenges
 
Boss said:
Protect him how?

Jump in the way of them?

Act as a shield?
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Relax Boss. He just means as long as the ref does a good job and clamps down on overtly rough tackling. If he doesn't then it can get out of hand and you get 'a Carragher'.
 
marcosdeto said:
oooh! no!!!!! you used the houllier!!!

wtf i'm talking about? thats rich from a guy that says someting about stoke in winter :lol:, care to explain it again?
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Fkme you're thick, can you read? two pages ago I said this

"My Stoke (could be the old Middlsbro etc Bolton under Big Sam etc etc) comments were a little tongue in cheek but I will stand by them"

It was a general point about the difference of climate and respective opposition in these two leagues which in my view affect the ability of the
top strikers to get goals or perform at their best

You dont have to agree, you certainly don't have to embark on a barrage of telling me how my life has collapsed since Messi scored 4 against us a year and a half ago - it did'nt. In fact I have'nt thought about it once, only since you started banging on about it in this thread.

We've been smashed up by Barca more than once (just like you have) and apart from being disappointed I've utterly loved watching and admiring them whilst they did it

You take it to ludicrous levels of personal criticism. Messi is a great great player best of this generation and as he approaches the levels of history's greatest there will be conflicting views and for me he's not there with Maradona and I've given my reasons as to why

I think he plays in a less physical and more open league
With more protection from the officials than Maradona contended with

I think he plays in a far better team than Maradona did which helps massively often handing goals on a plate

Of course as Iv'e said he's great enough to take full advantage of that and show us his fantastic ability week in week out

However for all that you could argue his exploits in a lesser team, his national side have been dire (bit Cantona as it happens)

Something that Maradona did not inflict upon his national side often winning matches turning around poor sides and performances and illustrating just what a collossus he was when under the utmost pressure - something as yet we've never seen from Messi and until that particular aspect of his career changes drastically he will forever be in Maradona's shadow

Now get over it stop being a twat, going on about "19 this 19 that" irrelevant games Messi played in over a year ago against Arsenal and stick to the point
 
Treble said:
dizzy cow?
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Yes that's my nickname.

So back to the discussion.

A ref can't change what a player wants to do.

He can only blow the whistle.

How would he protect Messi from brutal fouls and challenges?

He receives them week in week out in laliga, where there seems to be a new myth that it's far less psysical over there.
 
Boss said:
Yes that's my nickname.

So back to the discussion.

A ref can't change what a player wants to do.

He can only blow the whistle.

How would he protect Messi from brutal fouls and challenges?

He receives them week in week out in laliga, where there seems to be a new myth that it's far less psysical over there.
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If the referee follows the rules of the game and shows yellow/red cards when necessary then Messi would be unstoppable for Stoke defenders. That was my point.
 
agree with most of Jopubs points - Maradonna by a distance, but.....Messi still has his career in front of him so it's too early to say.

I wonder if Messi could go to a crap club like Napoli were and single-handedly win them the title in an era of top Italian standards/teams? I think Maradonna had a bit more than merely his skill - he had the inspiration to lift a whole team who were otherwise ordinary.

That photo of around 5/6 Dutch players confronting Maradonna says it all about the fear he put into opponents. Great image......and I'm not a fanboi. In fact, I thought he was a bit of an arsehole but possibly the greatest ever, and brilliant as he is, Messi isn't yet in the frame when it comes to other contenders. Probably will be though.
 
Denis' cuff said:
agree with most of Jopubs points - Maradonna by a distance, but.....Messi still has his career in front of him so it's too early to say.

I wonder if Messi could go to a crap club like Napoli were and single-handedly win them the title in an era of top Italian standards/teams? I think Maradonna had a bit more than merely his skill - he had the inspiration to lift a whole team who were otherwise ordinary.

That photo of around 5/6 Dutch players confronting Maradonna says it all about the fear he put into opponents. Great image......and I'm not a fanboi. In fact, I thought he was a bit of an arsehole.
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This sort of image can be made of Messi every game he plays.

Including with our players in the CL final.

I doubt Maradona won it with Napoli single handedly, I'm sure he had some sort of influence.

Could Maradona go to a top club Barca and become their greatest player? You have to remember many players in history do better at a smaller club and fail to shine at the big ones.

Could he have the best goal to game ratio in Europe? Score in two Champions League finals against the greatest club in the world?

Shall we just assume it's a given because he's Maradona?

You have to also ask yourself.

I don't think Messi will ever have the charisma of Maradona though, they seem to be polar opposites when it comes to personality.
 
Messi isn't Robinho, or even Ronaldo, he doesnt just start huffing and puffing, waving his arms around like a spoiled Brat, walk off the pitch etc when things arent going his way. Messi just loves to play football, if he was playing on a cold night in fecking Stoke (ffs easily the most rediculous argument levelled at almost any player) he'd relish it because he simply loves to play the game.

So the fact he's made mince meat out of some of the worlds very best defenses including in my opinion the very best in Manchester Uniteds he would still somehow struggle agaisnt Stoke on a windy night?

I actually remember a game against i think it was Espanyol a couple seasons back that would NEVER have been allowed to take place in England due to the state of the pitch and the heavy rainfall. Messi scored the winner that day.
 
Boss, I've not heard you object to the phrasing "protection from referees" any of the ten thousand other times it's been mentioned on the forum.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Messi isn't Robinho, or even Ronaldo, he doesnt just start huffing and puffing, waving his arms around like a spoiled Brat, walk off the pitch etc when things arent going his way. Messi just loves to play football, if he was playing on a cold night in fecking Stoke (ffs easily the most rediculous argument levelled at almost any player) he'd relish it because he simply loves to play the game.

So the fact he's made mince meat out of some of the worlds very best defenses including in my opinion the very best in Manchester Uniteds he would still somehow struggle agaisnt Stoke on a windy night?

I actually remember a game against i think it was Espanyol a couple seasons back that would NEVER have been allowed to take place in England due to the state of the pitch and the heavy rainfall. Messi scored the winner that day.
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Pretty much my thoughts Frankly. Here is a player that is nearly being mentioned seriously in the same breath as Maradona and people are debating whether he'll have time on the ball on a windy night in fecking Stoke-on-Trent? Messi will eat Wilkinson, Shawcross and the other hoof specialists for breakfast. Everyone would try taking him out instead of taking the ball off him and that's the sort of thing Messi thrives on (as Vidic found out on the weekend). You can't take him out because he's strong for a short guy and is just too agile on his feet.
 
Denis' cuff said:
agree with most of Jopubs points - Maradonna by a distance, but.....Messi still has his career in front of him so it's too early to say.

I wonder if Messi could go to a crap club like Napoli were and single-handedly win them the title in an era of top Italian standards/teams? I think Maradonna had a bit more than merely his skill - he had the inspiration to lift a whole team who were otherwise ordinary.

That photo of around 5/6 Dutch players confronting Maradonna says it all about the fear he put into opponents. Great image......and I'm not a fanboi. In fact, I thought he was a bit of an arsehole but possibly the greatest ever, and brilliant as he is, Messi isn't yet in the frame when it comes to other contenders. Probably will be though.
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Jopub point is that there's no way messi will be as good as maradona

that's the whole point of the argument

and stoke in winter

my point is that messi is not in that level yet, but he might

and stoke in winter has nothing to do with a players level
 
marcosdeto said:
Jopub point is that there's no way messi will be as good as maradona

that's the whole point of the argument

and stoke in winter

my point is that messi is not in that level yet, but he might

and stoke in winter has nothing to do with a players level
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Why the fk I bother ...but here goes

Until Messi does something seriously better at international level he will never be close to Maradona. EVER

(I'll type it up with space in between the words if you want me to)

Messi has also had the easier time, an easier time in respect of physicality no longer allowed in the game and this is only my opinion but I feel he gets to play in the best of conditions with the best team, which I feel is something Maradona also missed

I'm tiring of saying this in so many different ways

For me a player needing to go regularly 5/6 times a year) to the Stokes, Boltons, Middsbros of this this world in February needs a few more balls about them than those playing at 18.00 on a cool Saturday evening in the dying Spanish sun.

If you have played football in these kind of conditions you'd know and accept this.

But you seem to think you're a bit of a comedian with the 'Stoke' obsession - keep going, give us all a laugh
 
Jopub said:
Why the fk I bother ...but here goes

Until Messi does something seriously better at international level he will never be close to Maradona. EVER

(I'll type it up with space in between the words if you want me to)

Messi has also had the easier time, an easier time in respect of physicality no longer allowed in the game and this is only my opinion but I feel he gets to play in the best of conditions with the best team, which I feel is something Maradona also missed

I'm tiring of saying this in so many different ways

For me a player needing to go regularly 5/6 times a year) to the Stokes, Boltons, Middsbros of this this world in February needs a few more balls about them than those playing at 18.00 on a cool Saturday evening in the dying Spanish sun.

If you have played football in these kind of conditions you'd know and accept this.

But you seem to think you're a bit of a comedian with the 'Stoke' obsession - keep going, give us all a laugh
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right, this is what you said:

Jopub said:
Erm .......no actually he is'nt better than Maradona

Having seen them both from the start of their careers he wont be either.
He at least needs to make an impact wearing that Argentina shirt. I'm not saying he has win world cups etc etc but he really has to perform much better for his country than he has up to now

Btw Maradona plied his trade when defences were king. Very different game to the more open attacking space driven game we now have on offer.

I love Messi but again I do question the strength of the Spanish league as well.

I really believe the bottom 6 of la Liga would not get out of our Championship league

He wont go there but I'd be interested to see how he coped for ten months in either Italy or even here at Stoke on a cold February night week after week

Not dissing his abilities but you have to honestly admit he's in a league that best shows his gifts and allows him to do as he wants
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and that's why the fk you bother because you are trying to explain your first post
 
I bet Shawcross, Wilkinson et al would fry in the consistent 25-30 degrees heat of southern Spain. The pansies.
 
Jopub said:
Why the fk I bother ...but here goes

Until Messi does something seriously better at international level he will never be close to Maradona. EVER

(I'll type it up with space in between the words if you want me to)

Messi has also had the easier time, an easier time in respect of physicality no longer allowed in the game and this is only my opinion but I feel he gets to play in the best of conditions with the best team, which I feel is something Maradona also missed

I'm tiring of saying this in so many different ways

For me a player needing to go regularly 5/6 times a year) to the Stokes, Boltons, Middsbros of this this world in February needs a few more balls about them than those playing at 18.00 on a cool Saturday evening in the dying Spanish sun.

If you have played football in these kind of conditions you'd know and accept this.

But you seem to think you're a bit of a comedian with the 'Stoke' obsession - keep going, give us all a laugh
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I actually agree with most of the post, Jopub. But regarding the point about Stoke, I think marcos also repeatedly pointed out that in some area of Spain, the weather and condition are not easier than Stoke on a February night. And frankly I see no reason why a player as talented as Messi would not got the better of players of Shawcross and Huth quality just because the weather and the pitch isn't perfect.
 
reelworld said:
I actually agree with most of the post, Jopub. But regarding the point about Stoke, I think marcos also repeatedly pointed out that in some area of Spain, the weather and condition are not easier than Stoke on a February night. And frankly I see no reason why a player as talented as Messi would not got the better of players of Shawcross and Huth quality just because the weather and the pitch isn't perfect.
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the thing about stoke i use it to make fun of him, the main reason of my disagreement with him is that he said that messi will never be at the same level as maradona

wich i find imposible to predict
 
Rooney says Messi is the best player ever. Wonder what Cal? has to say to that.
 
marcosdeto said:
right, this is what you said:
and that's why the fk you bother because you are trying to explain your first post
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I have to explain nothing - that is my opinion and for the most part I've backed it up with concrete and valid points

reelworld said:
I actually agree with most of the post, Jopub. But regarding the point about Stoke, I think marcos also repeatedly pointed out that in some area of Spain, the weather and condition are not easier than Stoke on a February night. And frankly I see no reason why a player as talented as Messi would not got the better of players of Shawcross and Huth quality just because the weather and the pitch isn't perfect.
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With respect, weather and conditions to play football in in Spain are rarely as bad as we have here. Its rare that you will get the weather we have in Dec Jan February in Spain especially in the north

More to the point the type of teams we often get here the Boltons (the Allardyce type) Blackburn under Hughes, the Stoke (Pulis) of the Cup Final allied to these conditions on a regular basis ( which do not exist to the same degree in Spain ) IMO make it difficult for quality players to perform. They do perform but it tends to take them a few seasons to get to grips with it.

I dont think there are many teams that play like that in Spain that happily park the bus and smash lumps out of you and for me I'd say Messi has a bit of an easier time there that he would here. He'd probably get to grips with it, he'd have to but I think it would take a bigger effort out of him than hitting 50 goals against what are often imo sides making up the numbers out in the sun

Just a valid opinion and not one that nobody should get suicidal over :D
 
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