4. Olympics is not an international trophy. It is composed of mostly young players and weak teams.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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I love how we praise losing now. Never have I ever heard in a debate "ya well he made it to more finals and lost them all so he's the best"
*All while playing for a far superior national team for most of his career.
*All while playing for a far superior national team for most of his career.
He’s top goalscorer though, and have the best performance of the tournament.
Ronaldo has a more decorated career and will go down as the better of the two (assuming Messi doesn't win a world cup). It's like the whole LeBron vs. MJ argument. LeBron has more natural talent (Messi) but MJ worked harder and had more success (Ronaldo).
It started just 10 posts above yours with someone critizising Messi for not reaching any finals, then people pointed out that he's actually been in more finals than Ronaldo. The (intentional) ignorance and need to twist what the other side is saying in this thread is absolutely hilarious.
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To be fair - Messi has talent of growth hormone Injections. Pretty much just steroids taken whilst he was a kid
Yep not that all natural.To be fair - Messi has talent of growth hormone Injections. Pretty much just steroids taken whilst he was a kid
Youre very good at misrepresenting and twisting what people say on here (mind you, youre not the only one). No one is saying Leo is the best because he made more finals. The point is that he has been heavily criticised for not scoring in those finals. Cristiano on the other hand, has made nearly as many finals, and hasnt scored in any of them. Yet, no criticism. We were told by the same brigade that he's the most clutch player in history, and that he always shows up when needed fir Portugal (unlike Messi). Double standards.
I must say, the Messi homers have gone awfully quiet
Except two of them who are obsessed by Ronaldo in a negative wayI must say, the Messi homers have gone awfully quiet
Alternative take: Your post is a perfect example why most people can't be bothered posting in here much.I must say, the Messi homers have gone awfully quiet
I must say, the Messi homers have gone awfully quiet
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No matter how many things Ronaldo wins, he will always be second to Messi in these sorts of polls because he doesn't have the individual ability that Messi possesses.
Let's not pretend Messi is some plucky bridesmaid. He's won 24 trophies in his career, if you don't count super cups. Ronaldo has only won 22 and he's a few years older than Messi.
Messi has won the Champions League four times, only 11 players in history have won more Champions Leagues than Messi and they all played for Real Madrid except Maldini and Costacurta. Messi and Ronaldo are both incredibly successful, so it comes down to who is the better player on the pitch.
Messi Argentina wins:
- U20 worldcup 2005, also won the best player award
- Olympic gold medal, chosen (with Riquelme) as the standout playrs of the tournament
Ronaldo Portugal wins:
- Euro16, not even in the top 5 best players of the tournament
- Mickey Mouse nations league, didn't even participate with Portugal until this last week (best player in tournamnet and Portugal: bernardo Silva)
So yeah, for an individual thread where we discuss who's the better player, let's be blinded by team wins!!
P.S: while ronlado was winning the euro2016 with Portugal with two goals and three assists and exteme luck going to the latter stages finishing third in a mighty group with iceleand, Hungary and Austria, Messi was scoring 5 and assisting 5 in an 18 goals rout by Argentina in just 4 and half matches in copa 16 - injured for first matrch- , but we only remember him missing that penalty!
- U20 worldcup 2005, also won the best player award
- Olympic gold medal, chosen (with Riquelme) as the standout playrs of the tournament
Ronaldo Portugal wins:
- Euro16, not even in the top 5 best players of the tournament
- Mickey Mouse nations league, didn't even participate with Portugal until this last week (best player in tournamnet and Portugal: bernardo Silva)
So yeah, for an individual thread where we discuss who's the better player, let's be blinded by team wins!!
P.S: while ronlado was winning the euro2016 with Portugal with two goals and three assists and exteme luck going to the latter stages finishing third in a mighty group with iceleand, Hungary and Austria, Messi was scoring 5 and assisting 5 in an 18 goals rout by Argentina in just 4 and half matches in copa 16 - injured for first matrch- , but we only remember him missing that penalty!
You cant say Messi has won 4 cl with only a handful winning more as a positive when its a v Ronaldo thread and Cristiano himself is in that higher bracket!
Messi really needs another CL win to his name IMO.
You don't get the point, eh? or just cherry picking words.
It's very painfull for CR fans. Please stop.
Because Portugal won the nations league? I didn't even know it existed. Messi will probably win Ballon'dor again because he dominated La liga and was CL topscorer.I must say, the Messi homers have gone awfully quiet
Messi with 20+ goals more than CR this season. 10+ more assists. Top scorer in the league, top scorer in the CL. CR not winning the CL. All this probably equals Messi’s 6th Ballon. A decent Copa from Messi and it’s as good as done.
I like how many of those who prefer Cristiano because of team accomplishments always use these LeBron, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady comparisons as if everybody would automatically know what they mean. I've got no clue what made those athletes special and I honestly don't care, but it shows from which sports culture those who make these kind of arguments are coming from. This is not basketball, baseball or American football we are talking about, you can't measure the performance of a football player in stats as accurately as you can in those domains. Football features far more intangibles and a single individual has far lesser impact on the outcome of a match let alone a season. In a football match, a play that doesn't even have a metric can be the most decisive action of all. Trying to measure a player's quality in goal stats and trophy tallies is merely a testament of a very limited understanding of the game.
One could say: Soccer fans prefer Cristiano, football fans prefer Messi
Did anybody see Ronaldo's reaction when Bernardo was named Player of the Tournament? The leader!
Football is the beautiful game, and the judgement of its players will always reflect that. That is why players who display beauty will be viewed in a favourable light. Ronaldo does produce beautiful moments but his essence isn’t beautiful football the way it is to the likes of Messi. That is why he will struggle to get the love Messi gets.
Zidane is regarded as one of the greatest players of all time but his stats are not all that impressive considering the hype. What is the foundation of his reputation? Beauty. An artist of the game like no other player.
No matter how many trophies, how many insane last minute goals, Ronaldo will always have that barrier of beauty to contend with. But then again, what is beautiful today isn’t necessarily beautiful tomorrow. So maybe Ronaldo is changing that perception as we speak, and the legacy he is forging will reshape that intangible part of football; beauty.
Zidane is regarded as one of the greatest players of all time but his stats are not all that impressive considering the hype. What is the foundation of his reputation? Beauty. An artist of the game like no other player.
No matter how many trophies, how many insane last minute goals, Ronaldo will always have that barrier of beauty to contend with. But then again, what is beautiful today isn’t necessarily beautiful tomorrow. So maybe Ronaldo is changing that perception as we speak, and the legacy he is forging will reshape that intangible part of football; beauty.
It would be cool is Messi and Ronaldo could just duke it out in a boxing match. Obviously Ronaldo is a atheletic beast, but Messi is a midget who can throw some punches in the balls.I like how many of those who prefer Cristiano because of team accomplishments always use these LeBron, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady comparisons as if everybody would automatically know what they mean. I've got no clue what made those athletes special and I honestly don't care, but it shows from which sports culture those who make these kind of arguments are coming from. This is not basketball, baseball or American football we are talking about, you can't measure the performance of a football player in stats as accurately as you can in those domains. Football features far more intangibles and a single individual has far lesser impact on the outcome of a match let alone a season. In a football match, a play that doesn't even have a metric can be the most decisive action of all. Trying to measure a player's quality in goal stats and trophy tallies is merely a testament of a very limited understanding of the game.
One could say: Soccer fans prefer Cristiano, football fans prefer Messi
I don't really understand all this about Ronaldo having a better career. They have more or less similar trophy haul with Ronaldo having a extra Cl and a Euro while Messi has more league trophies. If winning La Liga is so easy, why has it been so difficult for Real to win it, even with a team of Ronaldo and tons of galacticos?
I think a large chunk of the Ronaldo fans in this thread are Americans, who are culturally prone to lionise good looks, athleticism and fetishise stats so I guess it makes sense that they prefer Ronaldo.I like how many of those who prefer Cristiano because of team accomplishments always use these LeBron, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady comparisons as if everybody would automatically know what they mean. I've got no clue what made those athletes special and I honestly don't care, but it shows from which sports culture those who make these kind of arguments are coming from. This is not basketball, baseball or American football we are talking about, you can't measure the performance of a football player in stats as accurately as you can in those domains. Football features far more intangibles and a single individual has far lesser impact on the outcome of a match let alone a season. In a football match, a play that doesn't even have a metric can be the most decisive action of all. Trying to measure a player's quality in goal stats and trophy tallies is merely a testament of a very limited understanding of the game.
One could say: Soccer fans prefer Cristiano, football fans prefer Messi
They are also prone to use horrific words like homer, clutch and 3PEAT
That's not even remotely true. The only sport what you're saying about that makes sense is for basketball. I spend plenty of time on all sports and can certainly tell you an individual has far more impact in a "soccer" match than it does in an american football game. There are so many more intangibles that you mention in that sport than in football that it clearly shows you have little understanding of the sport at whole. Secondly, I'm saying their viewed the same was a LeBron vs. MJ, not mentioning the sport itself. Ronaldo has won bigger, more important competitions across Europe while Messi has choked in many big games/situations (similar to LeBron). My point is that the debate between the two exists and there isn't a correct answer to which one is better and in football it's certainly true. I see arguments for both (in basketball you have to be a complete LeBron homer to even argue he was better than MJ at this point).I like how many of those who prefer Cristiano because of team accomplishments always use these LeBron, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady comparisons as if everybody would automatically know what they mean. I've got no clue what made those athletes special and I honestly don't care, but it shows from which sports culture those who make these kind of arguments are coming from. This is not basketball, baseball or American football we are talking about, you can't measure the performance of a football player in stats as accurately as you can in those domains. Football features far more intangibles and a single individual has far lesser impact on the outcome of a match let alone a season. In a football match, a play that doesn't even have a metric can be the most decisive action of all. Trying to measure a player's quality in goal stats and trophy tallies is merely a testament of a very limited understanding of the game.
One could say: Soccer fans prefer Cristiano, football fans prefer Messi
I don't even like Ronaldo but I still think he's better than Messi, and yes, Americans are attracted to successful people, not sure how that's a bad thing.I think a large chunk of the Ronaldo fans in this thread are Americans, who are culturally prone to lionise good looks, athleticism and fetishise stats so I guess it makes sense that they prefer Ronaldo.
They are also prone to use horrific words like homer, clutch and 3PEAT
You don't know about Michael Jordan and LeBron James?
Americans are attracted to the image of success more than anything. They prefer the loud guy thumping his chest more thant quiet guy in the corner. Which ironically is why most of the world thinks they're overdramatic cnuts.
This is obviously a gross generalization of 700 million(?) People, but feck it.
This is obviously a gross generalization of 700 million(?) People, but feck it.
You are right that's why Steph Curry was the unanimous MVP.
Who's Steph Curry? Im kidding he's that Golden State person. But I guess he's quiet?
He's the easiest contradiction you can think of to the argument you just made.
C'mon... Ronaldo would be rolling around on the ground for a count of about a hundred before any actual contact was made
I did say I was generalizing
My first thought as well.You don't know about Michael Jordan and LeBron James?
See, I said these self-evident LeBron/Jordan comparisons hint at the sports culture you grew up with, one that's completely obsessed with "clutchness", titles, statistics and what not. And this is what explains why you access this discussion that differently to most of us. Maybe you're right and American football and basketball also feature many intangible plays. As I said, I do not really care because I don't follow those sports, but if it is like you described all this stat mongering doesn't do them justice in the same way it doesn't do football justice. And this very school of thought is what leads to the conclusion that Ronaldo is the better player despite clearly being the inferior footballer. And that's why all this mental gymnastics occur ("he's the most clutch player ever", "CL GOAT", "Messi is the better player but Ronaldo the greater one", etc.).
You don't know about Michael Jordan and LeBron James?
Obviously I do know them because otherwise I couldn't have mentioned them. I've just got no clue about their playing style, title cabinet and story since I watch almost zero basketball. I know them in the same way I know Michael Phelps, Sean White, Lews Hamilton or Tiger Woods. Hell, I'd struggle to name even two positions played in basketball or American football.
Oh, and I watched Space Jam of course.
17% of those people have lost their fecking minds.
Yeah let's add credibility to a poll which has 17% of the population voting for Hazard and van dijk.
I'd say 47%
Where is the individual ability away from home since last 4 years? Does it only count when playing at camp nou with his Barcelona team mates who he has a strong influence in picking?
They are used erroneously.You don't know about Michael Jordan and LeBron James?
Ignore the armchair psychology nonsense. Jordan was a better player than LeBron, full stop. Better defender, better scorer, better performer in the playoffs. More season MVPs, more final MVPs. His "clutchness" has nothing to do with it.
A better debate would be Kobe vs LeBron. And that's where the nonsense over clutch comes in. Because without that factor, LeBron has a strong argument to being the better player.
Once you start wading into all this nonsense about being more "clutch", then it shows you're on thin ice. Because evidence for being more "clutch" is cherry picked.
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