Messi could do the business no doubt but would he be as good as he has been for Barca?
especially for people who take hgh
I don't see how you can make a case for Ronaldo being shite at internationals.
so did Argentina. their last copa win was almost 30 years ago. they also didn't progress past the WC quarters for 30 years. both of them clearly improved their national teams, but never to the point they could beat the best.
Relatively speaking. Ronaldo is arguably the best player ever. Results aside he could ve done better I'd say. Goes doubly for Messi who just looks lost for Argentina.
It takes luck to win the thing, it doesn't take luck to perform there.
Funny how you go from laughing at the idea of Messi being the best player in the CL to saying he was one of the best in about 8 seconds. Name 5 players who were better than him in the CL this season and prepare for everyone to laugh at you without having to immediately backpedal.Seriously? You’re going with best player in the CL?
Portugal at the Euros... Ronaldo made debut in 2003
Portugal losing in QF 1996 means they were 5th and Portugal losing in QF (2008) means they were 7th?
Firstly. You laughed when i said that Leo was the best player in the CL. Now you're backtracking and saying he was one of the best. Thats the danger of being hyperbolic in your response.
Good question - which I don't know the answer to unfortunately.
2008 Portugal lost to eventual runners up too. They lost to Germany who went to finals.
I have never really given the final positions much thought beyond the top 4.
What? We most definitely could beat the best. We were the toughest opponent to the best national team of the century in Spain. They beat us through an offside goal in 2010 and on penalties in 2012.
There is not really a lot of evidence of that though. Ronaldo has played for the top teams in every league United, Real and Juventus. You can only go by the fact that he still scores goals for portugal but that its it. I don't think Messi in 2012 would be the beast who scored over 90 goals without being in that Barca team, but put 24 old Messi in most teams as a forward I still think he'd rip plenty of teams apart, because of his insane dribbling ability and long range shooting. He's more than capaple than creating chances for himself, but it's true you can't really pump crosses into because he's a midget. It's true that Ronaldo's international record is slilghty better, but Messi is also the all time scorer for Argentina despite not winning a trophy.
I thought his hattrick vs Spain in the last WC was pretty good TBH.
yet you never did. I don't really care about the effort you put into it since no-one is questioning that, the fact is that you've lost every time you faced Germany or Spain in key match and that's fine. you also lost to the same (actually older) Uruguay and Chile sides Argentina lost to (and Messi was mocked for). the only trully top side you did beat, at least I considered them to be top side even then, were France in that final but since we're talking about Ronnie/Messi doing it, it's irrelevant in that particular context since Ronaldo was out.
well, precisely because of the narrative that Ronaldo doesn't need absolute quality behind him to beat the best they expect him to do it. also, Portugal isn't Scotland or Poland.
Some of his best performances ever came in international football and at tournaments.
I think people are mistaking disfunctional system with just different system. he didn't play a single, fixed position his whole career and Barca haven't been playing the same system during all these years. Messi in current Argentina, who can't do shit regardless of opponent, isn't the standard Messi otherwise he wouldn't be their all time top scorer.
We beat Spain in 2004 and drew in 2018. Lost via an offside goal in 2010 and on penalties in 2012.
well, if we are going to include Spain 2004, England "golden generation", us (Croatia), and that Dutch sides as top national sides, then Uruguay and Chile are also top sides. pretty much every NT is top team in that case. Portugal too, which means Ronaldo also played for top national team. so where's the problem? why shouldn't people expect him to do Maradona/R9/whatever in that case?
You're such a funny guy
Not really. I just actually followed the Portuguese national team and remember the games, unlike 99% of people here talking about the Portuguese national team.You're such a funny guy
2019 v Switzerland ... to be honest I think it was our neighbour's very own Bernardo Da Silva who was absolutely brilliant for you in that game. Ronaldo scored the goals but this man caused absolute havoc and fully deserved his player of the tournament award.
To win your first trophy for your country ever, as a captain and talisman for the team. Silver boot, team of the tournament - pretty much guarantees you legendary status for your country.
well, you obviously didn't do your homework with the Argies since you're trying to make it look like Messi debuted in 1990., right after Maradona and not in 2004. you're also presenting as a fact where Argentina will be in 20 years even though they haven't won anything since 1993 (Copa). after that, they've had 3 straight losses in quarterfinals at Copa and when it comes to WC, they've lost two times in quarters and one time they didn't even past the group stage. they were going nowhere in those days yet you seem convinced they're going back straight to Maradona days after Messi retires. if he could only hurry up a bit, eh? don't get me wrong, I know why you're doing it and I find it funny, personally.
You're just so fecking tribal about this subject. Well obviously not just you, it's both sides in this thread, but there's more to the universe than just black and white mate. It's okay if someone doesn't agree Ronaldo has the best national team career in the history of competitive sports.
Tribal? When you make just factually wrong statements like the one you did of course that reaction is the only thing possible. What else am I supposed to reply to that? It’s like me coming here arguing Heskey is a better player than Messi only to act outraged when someone laughs at it.You're just so fecking tribal about this subject. Well obviously not just you, it's both sides in this thread, but there's more to the universe than just black and white mate. It's okay if someone doesn't agree Ronaldo has the best national team career in the history of competitive sports.
For what it's worth, if Ronaldo was Dutch I would be completely convinced he was the best national team player ever, so feck it. Just, take a chill pill or something. And about the Dutch and 2012 in particular, we were also humiliated by the fearsome Dennis Rommedahl. We were really really fecking shite. Even worse than Ronaldo
Ronaldo was obviously miles better than Bernardo Silva in that game.
Our goalscorers?? Which goalscorers?
I’m not sure I understand your point here. You’re saying we won Euro 2016 because of our balanced squad and our strong depth as opposed to teams such as Spain and Germany?? Eliseu, Bruno Alves and Vieirinha were our back up defense, Éder was our only striker, Quaresma our creative option off the bench..
We were shite in 2012. We just were. Huntelaar was angry that he wasnt wasnt getting any games and the groups raport with Van Marwijk had deteriorated massively. Denmark wasnt a strong team. We were sunk by Dennis fecking Rommedahl. The Ajax player that wasnt good enough to do well at Ajax in the Dutch league. Apart from the Spain game we were also shite in 2014. We had an easy draw and only scored one goal from open play in the knock out stages. Also, obliterated is a stretch, it was 2-1 and we were pretty much out either way. Our last genuinely great national team was the 1998-2000 team. And in 2010 we had a magical Sneijder with the worlds cnutiest midfield block of Vn Bommel and De Jong kicking everyone to pieces.
and we were so bad we got to the WC knockouts and won the Nations League too in the following years. Greece 2.0 as advertised, it was all luck despite getting fecked over by the refs all across the tournament.My original post was that both Messi and Ronaldo have been relatively poor for their national team. Relatively being the key word. Surely you can admit that Ronaldo's greatest achievements are from his club career? He didn't play the final in 2016 and in any other tournament in history they would've been out at the group stages. That's hardly rivalling Maradonna in 86. No one's saying Ronaldo has been shite for Portugal (Admittedly I did a bit to wind you up in my last post), but he hasn't won as much as he could have. and it's great that he's had many good games, but without cups that doesn't count for anything. Or do you think Messi has had a great international career for making so many finals and being so close to winning trophies and even being voted player of the tournament in 2014? No, you don't think so, so why change the metrics for Ronaldo.
The irony of you telling me that is hilarious.
He did nothing apart from being the worst team since Greece at winning the Euros? Seriously... what? He was a legend for us 10 years before Euro 2016 even happened... How else do you want me to reply to that other than call it completely not true? Besides, is being the worst team since Greece at winning the Euros meant to be an insult? Only Spain won it in the meantime
The problem here is you judge Ronaldo’s national team results as if he was born Brazilian or German instead of Portuguese.
R9 gets excused for winning next to nothing in club football because of his teams but then in international football we’re supposed to forget one played next to Nani and Postiga while the other had Rivaldo and Ronaldinho.
Tend to agree with this sentiment. I feel as if he is the perfect product of a system that is designed exactly for that specific type of player. The system how Barca play is tailor made for a player that's got the skills Messi has got which IMO makes him look even better than he is.
On the other hand you can also say that Messi has proven his versality from being a explosive RW, to being a false 9 to being attacking midfield maestro while breaking all records in each position. Personally I'd say that is proof of his GOAT material alone.
Ronaldo’s biggest achievements come from his club career because he’s played with better teams from club than country, not because he’s played any worse.
No one said it did. Lots of grey area between ‘poor’ and ‘Maradona 86’ though.
Isn’t that true for literally everyone?
Of course it counts for something. Come on... or is Cruyff’s international career mediocre?
The metrics are the same, the expectations aren’t. I don’t believe Argentina getting to a Copa America final is any sort of big achievement at all or that it can in any way be compared to us reaching a Euros final. Especially so when it’s pretty much turned into a yearly tournament.
