I agree actually. and Higuain wouldn't get to play against Belgium if it wasn't for Messi
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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I made a mistake. I looked at the stat the included Messi's goals for Argie youth team.
Again, it's about how great an indvidual was at thier peaks at the biggest, most important tournament in Football, not how successful they've been in terms of trophies.
I don't know, I think I would have peak Messi 2012 over any other footballer in history. A player who can break goalscoring records, dribble an entire defense and play a defense splitting pass is pricelesss.
But I think overall in what they offer their teams, I have them about equal. We wouldn't have had this discussion for so many years if they weren't, but Messi's technical ability is on another level.
The Messi and CR7 fanboys try to downplay the importance of the World Cup "because it's only held evey four years" and big up the CL, are just despeate to come up with excuses to gloss over their failures at the big daddy of football tournaments. If we're going to play this game, lets start saying the diamond league in athletics is more important than winning Olympic Gold. If Messi and CR7 had done the business in World Cup finals, then i have no doubt they'd put that as proof of how great they are. Furtermore, the CL isn't even as widely competitive as that level of euro football it once was. Italian league is nowhere near the quality it once was. Until last season, the Dutch teams have been crap. Portugal's have been pretty average. France has become a one team league. German league has nothing like the strength in depth it once had. Decent Turkish clubs are now shite and no threat at all from eastern europe. What you have are two players in probably the two biggest clubs in the world, sweeping up at an overrated level of club football. Graham Hick's of football.
I find this argument so boring. I think we can all agree that if Ronaldo and Messi had dominated a WC it would put them undisputedably up there with Pele and Maradonna, but club football makes up 90% of a players career therefore paints a better picture of a players career. If Messi like Ronaldinho had a short peak and won a WC and maybe 2-3 years at his peak level would you consider him a greater player just because he had that world cup? I find being the best in the world and scoring almost a goal per game for a decade way more impressive. Messi's scored over 50 goals in his last season and dominated all attacking stats and nobody bads an eyelid because we are so used to it. Messi has maintained Luiz Ronaldo's peak at club level for 10 years.
Your first point has some merit, but the one about the CL lacking quality is simply laughable.
You used to get only a handful of teams capable of winning the thing back in the EC days because let’s face it, the 2nd-4th placed English, Spanish, etc sides are miles better than the champions of the smaller leagues.
Still the best player ever.
Maybe for Barca, but not for Argentina.
Messi had few chances to win the Copa and failed. Now, he’s blaming the referees. He should stop whining.
The scenes if Ronaldo blamed corruption for his failures.
I can't even imagine.
It's funny that he's complaining about unfair treatment in the third-place match even though it had nothing to do with Brazil. Next year, the Copa America will be in Argentine... watch out, Leo, because people will claim that it's set up to get you winning it!
This entire Copa has been an absolute sh*tshow
Doesn’t mean Argentina deserved to be in the final, Brazil were more clinical but the officiating has been historically bad for several teams
It really isn't 'historically' bad at all. People just like to go along with narratives.
Not even the best of his generation let alone ever.
Hahahaha almost everyone who matters thinks he’s comfortably the best of his generation.
He already has and it got so little traction that you don't even remember it.
"It is difficult because a lot of people did not want us to win and Barcelona would have been out of it.
"Maybe they don't want Real Madrid to win this Liga. I've been here for five years, so I know how a lot of things are and I hope to win it regardless of this.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...-referee-for-real-madrids-defeat-by-barcelona
Plenty more examples out there as well
Lulz
whingerJust imagine for a second Ronaldo had been the one giving the interviews Messi’s given during this Copa America. Remember all the hate we got in Euro 2016 for Ronaldo being a terrible loser when he said Iceland played like a small team?
When most players complain about ref mistakes they usually have the conscience of being a bit cautious with their words. Messi truly just went all out, directly calling conmebol corrupt and saying that the tournament is rigged in Brazil’s favor is as harsh as it gets really.
Not that it matters and I actually like to see him show this side of him for once instead of trying to keep his Saint media image but it’s pretty hilarious to see him complaining about conmebol corruption when conmebol corruption led to him having 2 home Copa Americas in his prime and 4 in 6 years, giving him way more chances than he should have had to save his international legacy.
When most players complain about ref mistakes they usually have the conscience of being a bit cautious with their words. Messi truly just went all out, directly calling conmebol corrupt and saying that the tournament is rigged in Brazil’s favor is as harsh as it gets really.
Not that it matters and I actually like to see him show this side of him for once instead of trying to keep his Saint media image but it’s pretty hilarious to see him complaining about conmebol corruption when conmebol corruption led to him having 2 home Copa Americas in his prime and 4 in 6 years, giving him way more chances than he should have had to save his international legacy.
Would have had some more respect for his decision to not accept that medal if he refused Golden Ball for the 2014 world cup as well.
Ouch
tbf, it's not like people are defending him (Messi) or anything. I've read only 2 or 3 articles about that and most are calling him a bitter loser anyway and that's only in my country. neither him neither Ronaldo are loved that much atm. I also think people are actually fed up with them a bit.
This moaning about the referees isn’t a good look for him at all.
Apples and Oranges
You never used to be allowed to collect your medal if you had been sent off in a final. Did they change that rule?
Yeah, back in 2007, when Leo had barely 10 caps with Argentina, CONMEBOL were already worried about Leo's legacyJust imagine for a second Ronaldo had been the one giving the interviews Messi’s given during this Copa America. Remember all the hate we got in Euro 2016 for Ronaldo being a terrible loser when he said Iceland played like a small team?
When most players complain about ref mistakes they usually have the conscience of being a bit cautious with their words. Messi truly just went all out, directly calling conmebol corrupt and saying that the tournament is rigged in Brazil’s favor is as harsh as it gets really.
Not that it matters and I actually like to see him show this side of him for once instead of trying to keep his Saint media image but it’s pretty hilarious to see him complaining about conmebol corruption when conmebol corruption led to him having 2 home Copa Americas in his prime and 4 in 6 years, giving him way more chances than he should have had to save his international legacy.
https://web.archive.org/web/2009020...ebol.com/articulos_ver.jsp?id=61729&slangab=S
It's just a big galactic and historical fraud, starting from Spain conquering America, then Argentina declaring their independence from Spain in 1816 (not any other date, they predicted Leo messi peaking circa 2016), then they kept the longest con ever creating the first Copa America in their centenary inviting other countries.
Skip to 1986, when CONMEBOL decided to keep their rotation system, advance further to see them change from a biannual format in the 80's and 90's, to a triennial just as Messi started showing promise in our youth ranks, and a quadrennial as he hit his peak, just to schedule two copa americas in 2015 and 2016, second centenary of Argentina's independence which set on motion the first Copa America (cheeky bastards).
And then, the absurd idea of matching to the Euro calendar so teams like Brazil don't have to play in the 2019 Copa, 2020 Olympics, 2021 Confederations, 2022 Wold Cup and 2023 Copa America anymore, leaving guys like Vinicius JR without vacations for almost 5 years.
A big farce started by some Italian guy (Leo's ascendants) asking for money to our Catholic Monarchs, who by joining in marriage merged the kingdoms of Castilla and Aragon (Barcelona).
Just like Zarco and Teixeira were blown away just so they could find Madeira, to raise there someone who could bloody win Portugal an international title.
Why am I not surprised nobody in here even mentioned how ridiculous the red card was? And that Argentina indeed was fecked by the referee against Brazil doesn't seem to care anybody.
Just imagine the reactions when a similar thing had happened to Ronaldo and Portugal. Cal? would probably start an online petition, call the game the 'scandal of whereeverthestupidgametookplace' and use that term in arguments for years to come.
But instead the general tenure is: "Haha, Messi complains about corruption. Stupid whinger! Crybaby! Ronaldo GOAT. Real winner."
But yeah, this board is plagued by a 'Messi brigade'. Poor reasonable CR7 supporters.
Just imagine the reactions when a similar thing had happened to Ronaldo and Portugal. Cal? would probably start an online petition, call the game the 'scandal of whereeverthestupidgametookplace' and use that term in arguments for years to come.
But instead the general tenure is: "Haha, Messi complains about corruption. Stupid whinger! Crybaby! Ronaldo GOAT. Real winner."
But yeah, this board is plagued by a 'Messi brigade'. Poor reasonable CR7 supporters.
Where the hell did I say they did it because of Messi? What the actual feck. You’re insane
If you think there was no corruption involved in Argentina hosting the 2020 Copa America when it’s nowhere near their turn and in having 4 Copa Americas in 6 years when the reasoning for the 2020 Copa America even existing is supposedly wanting to match it with the Euros despite the last one being in 2016 already in the same year as the Euros then you can think whatever you want.
Looking forward to seeing how you distort that into a weird rant after actually believing I’m saying Messi walked with sunglasses, a top hat and a suitcase full of cash into the conmebol headquarters to bribe their president.
Why are you surprised that there's generally a bit more affection shown towards one of our former players, who also happens to be one of our best ever, than a spindly twat from Barcelona?
I can understand that, I can even understand if that affects one's judgement as it's quite obviouslythe case with many here. However, liking someone more because he's got a past at your favourite club doesn't mean you have to throw every bit of objectivity away and become absolutely toxic towards his rival. But maybe that's just me. I exemplarily hate Bayern Munich but I'd felt stupid and childish if refused to admit that they're one of the 3 best teams in the world under Heynckes and Guardiola or had belittled the class of someone like Robben or Ribery.
I don't need to distort the reality, that's your job.Where the hell did I say they did it because of Messi? What the actual feck. You’re insane
If you think there was no corruption involved in Argentina hosting the 2020 Copa America when it’s nowhere near their turn and in having 4 Copa Americas in 6 years when the reasoning for the 2020 Copa America even existing is supposedly wanting to match it with the Euros despite the last one being in 2016 already in the same year as the Euros then you can think whatever you want.
Looking forward to seeing how you distort that into a weird rant after actually believing I’m saying Messi walked with sunglasses, a top hat and a suitcase full of cash into the conmebol headquarters to bribe their president.
The 2020 Copa wasn't in the schedule, it was a "spur of the moment" decission after seeing how the current schedule might conflict with a bunch of teams, could lead to Brazil or Argentina fielding another C squad in the future like happened in ¿2007?.
So, the CONMEBOL had to find suitors to host the event in 2 years time. USA was their first option but the nations didn't like it. AFAIK only two nations offered to host it, Colombia and Argentina, so CONMEBOL split it for them. Where did you want them to play?
Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Venezuela, Uruguay and Peru can't match the infrastructure of Colombia and Argentina.
Venezuela are on the fringe of civil war.
Brazil and Chile have already hosted in the last 4 years.
Nowhere their turn? What are your alternatives, make everyone travel to Mexico? British Antarctica? The Stanley Stadium in the Falklands?.
If they were so interested in building the hype around Messi's last bullet for an international title, they could at least have the idea of playing the final in Argentina, instead of Colombia
Otamendi and Armani should have been sent off vs Paraguay, Qatar had a penalty not given and then Venezuela had a blatant one not given in the quarters at 1-0 after a Foyth foul. Where was the outrage for that? Only when Argentina was on the wrong side of the calls did we even hear about ref mistakes... but yes, they’re the victims everyone’s against despite Messi being the darling of football and most people here wanting them to win.
Literally no one argued it was the right call, everyone agrees it’s a bullshit red. It’s a completely meaningless game and decision though, you want pages of discussion on it? I didn’t think the Zehner and Ishdalar love cult could get any more pedantic but you guys always pull it off.
Pretty sure even the most ardent of Ronaldo fans will admit that Messi is still at the very least, second best of this generation of players.
Messi's had a whinge about a tournament being rigged against him, which is hilarious, and shows a tremendous ego. It's got nothing to do with whether people prefer Ronaldo.
All that doesn't matter. It wasn't even mentioned, instead the reactions in here are absolutely toxic and polemic. You can be dead sure that if a similar thing happened to Cristiano, I'd be pointing that out. This just exposes the agenda lots of people in here have. They don't even try to be a liitle bit objective. Childish and cringeworthy, especially since most of them who don't even care if it was just or injust but happily roast Messi now like criticizing 'the Messi brigade' for their arrogance and subjectivity.
You literally just pretended me saying conmebol’s corruption gave Messi extra chances to win the tournament meant they purposefully created the tournament because of him.
Then went on a massive rant on it where you name dropped the sailors that found Madeira. Yeah, it’s my job alright.
So they wanted to prevent what happened in 2007 but somehow they didn’t see that in 2007? They saw it over 10 years later, makes sense.
They couldn’t simply wait 5 years until 2024 either given we just had 3 in the past 5 years. Come on... they did it because it gets them more money, simple as that.
Copa América hosts are in alphabetical order precisely to not have countries being hosts too often, the idea is to have every country as host before repeating it. Infrastructure isn’t the priority or else we’d have Brazil hosting it every other tournament. Colombia could host it by themselves. Plenty of other South American countries could host it.
It's not at all. However some of the decisions in that semis make you think refs blatantly favored Brazil.
The rest is Messi reacting out of emotion, just like when he decided to retire the first time. He is a bit soft
you know why we didn't remember this stuff about Ronaldo? Because we don't care. CR fanboys are always looking what Messi is doing. They can't get over it.
Instead of hosting the 2020 Copa they could've officiate properly and give Argentina the 2 pen and send Alves off if they wanted tp help Messi.
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