Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Bebestation]

People were scared of Ronaldo moving to Man City...

Why is that?

They know why.. because Guardiola has the ability to have Man City completely controlling the match with complete possesion and no contest - with Ronaldo just scoring all the goals.

Basically what Messi was for Barcelona all through out his career.

Absolutely a level down outside of that type of possession club and struggling to do things vs Nice FC..

Why is that? Not because Messi has suddenly turned old 3 months after a season he won the Balon D'or for - its Because PSG do not control the ball like Barcelona do.

No surprise the bigger trophies went down as the 'quality of possesion' went down when Xavi retired...reduced.. then iniesta retired..reduced.

Just a cherry on top of a cake.

However suddenly a cherry on top of a French Beef bourguignon doesn't look as good.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

When did you start watching football? He absolutely did play those roles in 2008 and 2009. Not every game but he did for the vast majority. United played a pretty flat 4-4-2 with Rooney partnering Berbatov or Tevez upfront. Ronaldo had license to roam but his average heat maps was still on the wing.

Apparently, much longer than you have. If you think he was playing as a traditional winger in 2009, you weren't watching.

 

[MrEleson]

Again, Messi was his team's primary scorer despite playing deeper than Ronaldo. We have seen Ronaldo play higher up the pitch than Messi ever has against City, and he has been nowhere near as good.

Ronaldo in his conventional winger days didn’t play further forward than Messi in his false 9 days, that’s factually incorrect.

 

[Gehrman]

Ronaldo is the better player easily this season. Messi seems to has declined but I'm not sure how much of it is due to Pochettino's tactics because he's not the only one in psg playing like his lesser self

Certainly. Ronaldo definitely has a better 2021-2022 season so far.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Ronaldo in his conventional winger days didn’t play further forward than Messi in his false 9 days, that’s factually incorrect.

Then he wasn't a conventional winger. Because he did play higher up the pitch. So you're wrong.

 

[MrEleson]

Apparently, much longer than you have. If you think he was playing as a traditional winger in 2009, you weren't watching.

Very clearly not. He played both on the right and the left wing. But still most of his games those years were from the right. He was probably not a traditional winger in the proper sense of the word but he wasn’t playing like he did in his Madrid years. He was a winger with license to roam. He certainly wasn’t his team’s most advanced player in most games. Maybe only the CL semis and final he played that role.

 

[MrEleson]

Then he wasn't a conventional winger. Because he did play higher up the pitch. So you're wrong.

Prove that he played higher up than Messi in his United days.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Very clearly not. He played both on the right and the left wing. But still most of his games those years were from the right. He was probably not a traditional winger in the proper sense of the word but he wasn’t playing like he did in his Madrid years. He was a winger with license to roam. He certainly wasn’t his team’s most advanced player in most games. Maybe only the CL semis and final he played that role.

Messi wasn't the most advanced player on the pitch for Barcelona either. The question is whether Messi played further up on the pitch. And you're wrong, again. As usual.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Prove that he played higher up than Messi in his United days.

Prove that he played as a traditional winger. It's your claim. I'll be waiting.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

So Messi, who doesn't play in the Premier League and never has, is on another level statistically against Manchester City than Ronaldo is?

You have taken the field of statistics out to the shed and shot it.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

You have taken the field of statistics out to the shed and shot it.

Sure thing.

 

[Oly Francis]

Why is that? Not because Messi has suddenly turned old 3 months after a season he won the Balon D'or for - its Because PSG do not control the ball like Barcelona do.

Tha'ts not the reason.

1) He was pretty bad last season as well up until december, without COPA or moving from Barcelonan then he began to stack goals and assists
2) It's pretty obvious to anyone who watches the games that he still doesn't look 100% in shape, he's slower than usual has a hard time finding his exact role on the pitch. It's far more complicated to adjust to a new club when you're a playmaker.

 

[MrEleson]

Messi wasn't the most advanced player on the pitch for Barcelona either. The question is whether Messi played further up on the pitch. And you're wrong, again. As usual.

I’m wrong? Show me. Messi didn’t play deeper than United Ronaldo.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

I’m wrong? Show me. Messi didn’t play deeper than United Ronaldo.

The burden of proof is on you. I'm still waiting.

 

[MrEleson]

The burden of proof is on you. I'm still waiting.

You were the first to make the claim that Ronaldo played more advanced.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

You were the first to make the claim that Ronaldo played more advanced.

You made the earlier claim that Ronaldo played as a conventional winger. I'm waiting for you to prove it.

 

[Gehrman]

Tha'ts not the reason.

1) He was pretty bad last season as well up until december, without COPA or moving from Barcelonan then he began to stack goals and assists
2) It's pretty obvious to anyone who watches the games that he still doesn't look 100% in shape, he's slower than usual has a hard time finding his exact role on the pitch. It's far more complicated to adjust to a new club when you're a playmaker.

Dunno if i'm wrong but he seems be playing as a nr. 10 at PSG.

 

[Bebestation]

You made the earlier claim that Ronaldo played as a conventional winger. I'm waiting for you to prove it.

Looked at the online results board vs Nice

Mbappe - Messi - Di Maria
​

 

[Sinbad the sailor]

Cristiano's Messi-related inferiority complex with some of his quotes through the years:

November 2008: "I’m the best player in the world, the second best player in the world and the third best player in the world. There are some more good players in the level behind me like Kaká, Torres and maybe Messi a bit, but I did all it takes to be the best."

July 2009: "I’m happy to be the most expensive player in the world. I worth 96M, others worth 0, perhaps. The price that was paid for me shows the difference."

February 2011: "I’m not going to answer the question, everyone already knows that I’m better than Messi."

September 2011: "They whistle me (on 'Messi, Messi' whistles to him in Spanish stadiums) because I’m better than their player. They’re envious. Those who does this are idiots. Everyone who likes football, likes Cristiano Ronaldo the most."

June 2012, after being whistled & eliminated from Euros 2012: "You know where Messi was in those heights in South America last year? Do You know what he did? Do You know or you don’t? He was eliminated in Copa America in his own country. I think that’s worse, don’t you?"

December 2012: "I should’ve won the last 3 Ballon d’Ors, but it doesn’t depend on me."

February 2013: "It doesn’t surprise me that Messi didn’t vote for me in the Ballon D’or, we know the reason." Ronaldo never voted for Messi, while Messi did in some years.

August 2014 regarding to winning UEFA’s best player: "If I didn’t win this award it wouldn’t surprise me, because nothing surprises me anymore after what happened with the Ballon d'Or in the prior years."

When Messi won his 5th Ballon d'Or in 2015, Cristiano said: "For me the European Golden Shoe is better than Ballon d'Or because it's won by your goals and not by votes. It's the best award out there" Cristiano had more Golden Shoes that time. Today Messi has 2 more than him. 6 Golden Shoes.

January 2017, during Fifa Best award ceremony: "I’m sorry for certain Barcelona people not being here, that’s speaks for itself, but I understand that." Note: Barcelona had a crucial away game the next day. Also Cristiano boycotted most of the ceremonies he lost.

December 2018: "Maybe Messi misses me. I played in England, Spain, Italy, Portugal, in the national team, while he is still in Spain. Maybe he needs me more. For me, life is a challenge, I like it, and I like to make people happy. I would like him to come to Italy one day." Former teammate Ryan Giggs stated: "Ronaldo is obsessed with being Messi, there are no two ways about it. Cristiano's latest comments about Lionel Messi prove I'm right. 'I did it in England, I did it in Spain, I'm going to do it in Italy. I did it with Portugal.' He thinks that will be his argument 'Am I better than Messi' ?"

September 2019: "I want to win more Ballon d'Or than Messi. I deserve it. I think I have to have 6 or 7 or 8 to be above him."

Speaking to L'Equipe, Cristiano’s sister Katia Ronaldo said: "We don't want to talk about Messi inside the house. His name is banned."

Ronaldo is so ridiculously thin-skinned and insecure. So arrogant he can’t fathom another player being greater than him.

He’ll never win another Ballon D’Or, and he knows it. Drives his crazy. Will never surpass Messi in Ballon D’Or or Golden Shoes. And it kills him.

You know all this would be funny if he wasn't a grown man nearing his 40s. His sister always takes shots at messi as well. Funnily enough messi had never mentioned christiano in a negative way. Next level insecurities man

 

[Daysleeper]

This thread has been absolute gold these last few pages. God, I love this

 

[Gehrman]

People were scared of Ronaldo moving to Man City...

Why is that?

They know why.. because Guardiola has the ability to have Man City completely controlling the match with complete possesion and no contest - with Ronaldo just scoring all the goals.

Basically what Messi was for Barcelona all through out his career.

Absolutely a level down outside of that type of possession club and struggling to do things vs Nice FC..

Why is that? Not because Messi has suddenly turned old 3 months after a season he won the Balon D'or for - its Because PSG do not control the ball like Barcelona do.

No surprise the bigger trophies went down as the 'quality of possesion' went down when Xavi retired...reduced.. then iniesta retired..reduced.

Just a cherry on top of a cake.

However suddenly a cherry on top of a French Beef bourguignon doesn't look as good.

No shit the team got worse once they retired and Messi got older. I for one am shocked. . Their transfer and management strategy turned out to be a disaster.

 

[mariachi-19]

That dysfunctional team finished Premier League, "the hardest league on the planet" in your own words, 2nd last year, and 3rd in 2020, was a team on the rise prior to Ronaldo's arrival in "the hardest league on the planet". That dysfunctional team has also one of the top 3 most expensive squads in Europe.

By the way, many call PSG as a dysfunctional team as well. PSG finished "farmers league" Ligue 1 2nd last year, so was definitely not a "far and away the most dominant team" prior to Messi's arrival.

Declining Messi just won a Ballon D'or at age 34 after dominating La Liga as usual & Copa after 2019 whereas last time Ronaldo won it was 5 years ago and will probably never see the podium again. Tbh, the mental gymnastics in your post is something else..

You should focus your efforts on reading and comprehension.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Looked at the online results board vs Nice

Mbappe - Messi - Di Maria
​

Talk about a waste of a post

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

This thread has been absolute gold these last few pages. God, I love this

It's beautiful

 

[RedRonaldo]

I've made no arguments. I have presented a fact, to which you have no response but to digress.

It’s more of a case of you presenting part of fact to suit your own agenda, and dodging the ones which doesn’t.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Just isn't as impressive as the most golden shoes because it doesn't show how many times you were the best scorer on the planet, or you're goalscoring peak.

You could be a lesser player and an inferior scorer and play long enough to have more cumulative goals. That's a longevity argument, and it's a fair one.

If it’s that simple, lots of inferior players would have scored more goals than Pele. But truth is, only Ronaldo does that.

Take a moment away from your own bias, think about that.

 

[cyberman]

Tha'ts not the reason.

1) He was pretty bad last season as well up until december, without COPA or moving from Barcelonan then he began to stack goals and assists
2) It's pretty obvious to anyone who watches the games that he still doesn't look 100% in shape, he's slower than usual has a hard time finding his exact role on the pitch. It's far more complicated to adjust to a new club when you're a playmaker.

I’d also argue that being in a better team isn’t doing him any favours. He should be a lot better but not to the extent he was when being the only show in a shit Barca. He shouldn’t be given the ball every time, he shouldnt be the first pick out in the box. He’s 34, this is just probably just below his ceiling as a performer at this stage with 50 percent of the season being miles below the elite.
It’s like Ronaldo, 14 goal involvements in 16, all 10 CL points down to him, all scored when either losing or drawing. If Utd were playing well he would be taken off as a sub a lot more and rotated. He shouldn’t have so many clutch moments so early in the year. He could play the same way for City and have less impressive stats but it builds the rep due to the shit nature of the team.
Messi will be better for PSG as the season progresses but it’s not going to be the massive leap that’s expected imo

 

[cyberman]

If it’s that simple, lots of inferior players would have scored more goals than Pele. But truth is, only Ronaldo does that.

Take a moment away from your own bias, think about that.

He’s only scored so many goals because he’s been so elite for so many years is literally the argument that you’re replying to.

 

[Gehrman]

If it’s that simple, lots of inferior players would have scored more goals than Pele. But truth is, only Ronaldo does that.

Take a moment away from your own bias, think about that.

Messi will surpass pele in goals soon as well. In fewer games.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Well he has a very strong case to be claimed as the greatest ever in CL, and greatest ever goalscorer in football.

Pele and Maradona, 2 of the greatest ever, doesn’t really “behave” any better in GOAT discussion over the past few centuries. They both have long history of bigging up themselves while undermining the others.

Agree with what you say about Ronaldo here. Also a fair point about Pele and Maradona. The difference is that they didn’t behave that way when they were playing. The jealousy towards others came out mostly after they had retired and were old men and annoyed at the publicity others were getting. Ronaldo is already on that train. Obviously social media didn’t exist in their day, but a lot of the childish statements attributed to CR have been in interviews, which definitely did exist in Pele and Maradona’s day.

I’ve always said that I think Pele is the GOAT because he has the best skill set and the best resume IMO. But maybe Messi is in fact the best ever, simply because all the others constantly take shots at him and he never takes shots at them. This is very revealing and shows that they are jealous of him and see him as a threat to their legacies. He doesn’t see any of them as a threat to his legacy.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He’s only scored so many goals because he’s been so elite for so many years is literally the argument that you’re replying to.

Which means he is the greatest, at least in this regards.

 

[cyberman]

Which means he is the greatest, at least in this regards.

It means his record since turning 30 is legendary on its own. 342 in 370 games. That’s not just longevity, that’s other worldly.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Messi will surpass pele in goals soon as well. In fewer games.

Sure, that’s why I totally agree Messi is GOAT too. But that doesn’t means Ronaldo isn’t one. He is the first ever footballer to reach 800 goals in top level, it’s great achievement in its own right.

Just think about that, a player would need to score 40 goals per year in top level, for 20 years straight, in order to reach that figure. I think every football fans should pay a little respect on this, even his haters.

 

[Gehrman]

Sure, that’s why I totally agree Messi is GOAT too. But that doesn’t means Ronaldo isn’t one. He is the first ever footballer to reach 800 goals in top level, it’s great achievement in its own right.

Just think about that, a player would need to score 40 goals per year in top level, for 20 years straight, in order to reach that figure. I think every football fans should pay a little respect on this, even his haters.

I think it's an incredible achievement. And I do consider Ronaldo one of the greatest.

 

[NasirTimothy]

People were scared of Ronaldo moving to Man City...

Why is that?

They know why.. because Guardiola has the ability to have Man City completely controlling the match with complete possesion and no contest - with Ronaldo just scoring all the goals.

Basically what Messi was for Barcelona all through out his career.

Absolutely a level down outside of that type of possession club and struggling to do things vs Nice FC..

Why is that? Not because Messi has suddenly turned old 3 months after a season he won the Balon D'or for - its Because PSG do not control the ball like Barcelona do.

No surprise the bigger trophies went down as the 'quality of possesion' went down when Xavi retired...reduced.. then iniesta retired..reduced.

Just a cherry on top of a cake.

However suddenly a cherry on top of a French Beef bourguignon doesn't look as good.

And the quality of the trophies Ronaldo won went down when he lost Modric, Kroos and Casemiro as his midfield. All the way down to 9th place (currently 7th) in the Premier League (with a team that finished second the season before) despite a whole bunch of new signings.

PSG also finished second last season and bought a whole new load of players. They’re currently 12 points clear at the top of Ligue Un.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Except a 6th of 7 balón dor

That award has zero credibility anymore, just ask Lewandowski.

 

[Gehrman]

And the quality of the trophies Ronaldo won went down when he lost Modric, Kroos and Casemiro as his midfield. All the way down to 9th place (currently 7th) in the Premier League (with a team that finished second the season before) despite a whole bunch of new signings.

PSG also finished second last season and bought a whole new load of players. They’re currently 12 points clear at the top of Ligue Un.

It's almost like it's a team game. It's incredible. I can remember when we replaced Ronaldo and Tevez with Michael Owen and Antonio Valencia. And we replaced Ferdinand and Vidic with Phil Jones and Smalling. Sure we won stuf won Fergie was here, but the moment he left it's been downhill for almost a decade now.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Agree with what you say about Ronaldo here. Also a fair point about Pele and Maradona. The difference is that they didn’t behave that way when they were playing. The jealousy towards others came out mostly after they had retired and were old men and annoyed at the publicity others were getting. Ronaldo is already on that train. Obviously social media didn’t exist in their day, but a lot of the childish statements attributed to CR have been in interviews, which definitely did exist in Pele and Maradona’s day.

I’ve always said that I think Pele is the GOAT because he has the best skill set and the best resume IMO. But maybe Messi is in fact the best ever, simply because all the others constantly take shots at him and he never takes shots at them. This is very revealing and shows that they are jealous of him and see him as a threat to their legacies. He doesn’t see any of them as a threat to his legacy.

For Maradona and Pele case, perhaps it’s because they didn’t play in same era and sharing the same platform. Imagine if both Pele and Maradona were playing in same era, and both of them being outspoken character, the toxic of these discussions would be unbearable during their playing days too.

It’s true Ronaldo has always been jealous of Messi, and he has been more outspoken about it too. Messi though, has been generally less outspoken, perhaps it’s because he truly see himself as best ever, and doesn’t see anyone as a threat. But if you ask me, I think it’s more to do with his laid back personality. He hate losing to Ronaldo too, and I think 5-5 has really pushed him to working towards his 7-5, even though he has been abit lucky winning this time.

 

[Gehrman]

For Maradona and Pele case, perhaps it’s because they didn’t play in same era and sharing the same platform. Imagine if both Pele and Maradona were playing in same era, and both of them being outspoken character, the toxic of these discussions would be unbearable during their playing days too.

It’s true Ronaldo has always been jealous of Messi, and he has been more outspoken about it too. Messi though, has been generally less outspoken, perhaps it’s because he truly see himself as best ever, and doesn’t see anyone as a threat. But if you ask me, I think it’s more to do with his laid back personality. He hate losing to Ronaldo too, and I think 5-5 has really pushed him to working towards his 7-5, even though he has been abit lucky winning this time.

Messi admitted that it got to him when Ronaldo matched him for Ballon D'ors.

 

[Gehrman]

Agree with what you say about Ronaldo here. Also a fair point about Pele and Maradona. The difference is that they didn’t behave that way when they were playing. The jealousy towards others came out mostly after they had retired and were old men and annoyed at the publicity others were getting. Ronaldo is already on that train. Obviously social media didn’t exist in their day, but a lot of the childish statements attributed to CR have been in interviews, which definitely did exist in Pele and Maradona’s day.

I’ve always said that I think Pele is the GOAT because he has the best skill set and the best resume IMO. But maybe Messi is in fact the best ever, simply because all the others constantly take shots at him and he never takes shots at them. This is very revealing and shows that they are jealous of him and see him as a threat to their legacies. He doesn’t see any of them as a threat to his legacy.

Messi isn't the best ever because he doesn't take shots at anyone. I think the fact that most prolific players, pundits and managers who didn't manage Ronaldo or play with him, tend to call Messi the best in the world and often the greatest ever means he feels confident in his own stature. And of course knowing what he's done on the pitch. Messi is a freak in terms of talent though, but he doesn't have the genetics of Ronaldo, so it might well be that Messi will legimately be finished soon(I thought he was finished in the beginning of last season), possibly at 35, while Ronaldo might keep scoring in Europe untill he's 40. The recency bias might sway the experts opinon.