Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Rito]

You need more than goals to be better than Messi, he's also playing a totally different position to Ronaldo and Ronaldo will begetting much more chances

Messi is not going to score lots of goals this world cup his position is too deep and he doesn't have the same movement around him he has at Barca

If Messi scores more than 3 goals it will be a good run for him

Ahh, here comes the classic "messi has intangibles which only proper football fans will understand" logic. 4 goals in 1.5 matches against 0 goals and a missed penalty, but hey, "Messi is more than goals". Ronaldo is dragging the very average Portugal side pretty much on his own, but somehow, Messi is better.
Some are actually suggesting that Ronnie has a better support system, when the Portugal MF and defense are getting overrun by fecking Morocco

 

[Zen]

I highly doubt Barca would drop to midtable without Messi, they'd figure out a way to play no so dependent on him and theres great talent there. But there would probably be a title challenge on from week 2 of last year, and they most certainly wouldn't go 37 games undefeated. I'd say he's currently worth about 15-20pts above replacement...in the classic American sabermetric! Probably more than anyone else in league terms, but how make the estimation for CL I don't know. Since Ronaldo's value is higher there.

Not sure it's tremendously different for Argentina, but then again, they've come into World Cups being loaded with talent my whole life, and only made it to the final or even past the semi's when built insanely around Messi, so who knows.

 

[Vialli_92]

He just can’t. Ronaldo’s physicality allows him to be an out and out striker. If Messi could, Argentina would. Messi’s size helps him in other aspects of the game of course.

He needs movement around him, he can play anywhere in midfield or attack, at Argentina he won't be of much use to them up the pitch because their tactics simply don't suit him

He's very unorthodox so he doesn't fit in to normal teams like Ronaldo can without any difficulty, As I said I think if he manages to score more than 3 WC goals it will be a good return for him

 

[wub1234]

Both Portugal and Argentina have a snowball in hell's chance of winning this tournament. They're both extremely mediocre. Messi basically dragged Argentina to the Copa America finals two years ago, and this team is significantly worse than that one. And Portugal won the Euros with a combination of disciplined defence, penalty shoot-outs, an extremely fortunate draw (they played Croatia, Poland and Wales in the knockout stages), and sheer luck. I will be extremely surprised if either of them gets anywhere near the final. Messi would have to play out of his skin for Argentina to do anything, but their defence is just appalling. It's hard to see how they will cope when they play decent teams.

Portugal are probably marginally better in practical terms because they at least know how to defend, but they looked like a very moderate team against Morocco. They were basically outplayed against Spain; that game created a completely false impression of their level. If you take away the dubious penalty and the best keeper in the world throwing one in, they basically created nothing. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer, but he offers nothing creatively, so as Portugal get to the latter stages he will inevitably do nothing, as he did during the Euro knockout stages and CL final, as he won't get any supply. Nice for him to get a few tap-ins now.

Argentina must win their group, otherwise they will run into France and almost certainly lose.

 

[Daysleeper]

Portugal are a very jammy team but get results in the end, Argentina lack an semblance of cohesiveness.

 

[Vialli_92]

Both Portugal and Argentina have a snowball in hell's chance of winning this tournament. They're both extremely mediocre. Messi basically dragged Argentina to the Copa America finals two years ago, and this team is significantly worse than that one. And Portugal won the Euros with a combination of disciplined defence, penalty shoot-outs, an extremely fortunate draw (they played Croatia, Poland and Wales in the knockout stages), and sheer luck. I will be extremely surprised if either of them gets anywhere near the final. Messi would have to play out of his skin for Argentina to do anything, but their defence is just appalling. It's hard to see how they will cope when they play decent teams.

Portugal are probably marginally better in practical terms because they at least know how to defend, but they looked like a very moderate team against Morocco. They were basically outplayed against Spain; that game created a completely false impression of their level. If you take away the dubious penalty and the best keeper in the world throwing one in, they basically created nothing. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer, but he offers nothing creatively, so as Portugal get to the latter stages he will inevitably do nothing, as he did during the Euro knockout stages and CL final, as he won't get any supply. Nice for him to get a few tap-ins now.

Argentina must win their group, otherwise they will run into France and almost certainly lose.

Yeah A semi final for either would be a miracle

 

[Vialli_92]

Ahh, here comes the classic "messi has intangibles which only proper football fans will understand" logic. 4 goals in 1.5 matches against 0 goals and a missed penalty, but hey, "Messi is more than goals". Ronaldo is dragging the very average Portugal side pretty much on his own, but somehow, Messi is better.
Some are actually suggesting that Ronnie has a better support system, when the Portugal MF and defense are getting overrun by fecking Morocco

Again, goals don't make you better than Messi

 

[Suhail]

https://footballarguments.wordpress...er-of-all-time/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Good read

 

[altodevil]

https://footballarguments.wordpress...er-of-all-time/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Good read

Great article.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Absolute fecking madness the way people think the debate has been comprehensively swung by THREE GAMES from the WC group stages. Of course “absolute fecking madness” more or less sums up this whole omnishambles of a thread.

 

[The_Midfielder]

People forget the importance of handling pressure.. From the players I have watched, its Ronaldo and Zidane that have the most ability to handle pressure.. Messi doesnt have it.. hence missing out on big moments.. penalty misses during the Copa America, now the World cup..

 

[Dembeza]

https://footballarguments.wordpress...er-of-all-time/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Good read

Is the writter a Barcelona fan?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

... as Portugal get to the latter stages he will inevitably do nothing, as he did during the Euro knockout stages and CL final, as he won't get any supply. Nice for him to get a few tap-ins now.

Brilliant layoff back across goal to set up Quaresma in the round of 16 then scored the opener, found Nani with a magical pass for the second and put in a MOTM performance against Wales.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

People forget the importance of handling pressure.. From the players I have watched, its Ronaldo and Zidane that have the most ability to handle pressure.. Messi doesnt have it.. hence missing out on big moments.. penalty misses during the Copa America, now the World cup..

You say that as though Messi hasn't handled pressure and delivered on the big stage before. He has, plenty of times. Conversely, Ronaldo isn't infallible and has also been known to miss penalties on big occasions. Which is a strange omission coming from a fan of Manchester United.

 

[Rito]

Suddenly people are awakening to the unimportance of group games.

Messi won the fecking golden ball in 2014 by getting 4 goals in the group games and then one assist from 2nd round to the finals, but then again, parameters are different for Ronaldo and Messi.
Not even bringing in the UCL where Ronaldo has comfortably outscored messi in the knock out stages.

On another note, how this wum1234 gets away with absolute nonsensical posts is beyond me.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Footballing Maradona>Messi>Pele>Ronaldo​

Peak Messi>Maradona>Pele>Ronaldo

Consistency Messi>Ronaldo>Pele>Maradona
Longevity Ronaldo>Messi>Pele>Maradona
Big Moment Ronaldo>Maradona>Pele>Messi
Achievement Pele>Ronaldo>Messi>Maradona
Legacy Pele>Maradona>Ronaldo>Messi
​

 

[breakout67]

https://footballarguments.wordpress...er-of-all-time/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Good read

Shite read

1) Accused CR of only contributing goals and nothing else
2) Said he had 'very questionable' decision making until his early 30s

I rank Messi above Ronaldo, but there's a clear dishonesty from some people when assessing Ronaldo. They act as if half of his career didn't exist and he only started playing when he was declining physically.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

357 delusional souls.

 

[Reiliano]

It is an absolute luxury to be a passenger in a semi finals and finals and have your teammates be good enough to bring home the trophy. Ronaldo was great in CL’s but if he has an off game there are other players who can make up for it. If Messi merely has an average game against good competition Barca are finished

You mean the man who holds the record for most goals scored in champions league quarter finals, semi finals and finals?

Yeah... Good argument there buddy

 

[Pogue Mahone]

357 delusional souls.

Hmmm... right now there’s 357 votes each.

EDIT: that’s the joke, isn’t it?

 

[altodevil]

Hmmm... right now there’s 357 votes each.

EDIT: that’s the joke, isn’t it?

You could argue it's the half or so on either side who change their mind after one game.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Hmmm... right now there’s 357 votes each.

EDIT: that’s the joke, isn’t it?

 

[Moby]

You need more than goals to be better than Messi, he's also playing a totally different position to Ronaldo and Ronaldo will begetting much more chances

Messi is not going to score lots of goals this world cup his position is too deep and he doesn't have the same movement around him he has at Barca

If Messi scores more than 3 goals it will be a good run for him

This bullshit is easily put to bed by the fact that Messi took 11 shots with no result and a penalty miss while Ronaldo netted 3 goals in 4 shots. Saying Ronaldo gets more chances on goal than Messi is hilariously incorrect. Not that it is surprising to see this kinda opinion from Messi's sister.

 

[Rito]

This bullshit is easily put to bed by the fact that Messi took 11 shots with no result and a penalty miss while Ronaldo netted 3 goals in 4 shots. Saying Ronaldo gets more chances on goal than Messi is hilariously incorrect. Not that it is surprising to see this kinda opinion from Messi's sister.

Messi is more than goals, or shots taken

 

[Moby]

Messi is more than goals, or shots taken

Or penalties missed and everything else that he couldn't do well and hence it doesnt count for his fans.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

You say that as though Messi hasn't handled pressure and delivered on the big stage before. He has, plenty of times. Conversely, Ronaldo isn't infallible and has also been known to miss penalties on big occasions. Which is a strange omission coming from a fan of Manchester United.

These are Ronaldo fans. United are secondary at best. They rarely post on any other subject.

I can still see Ronaldo crying face first on the floor after missing the a penalty in the CL final for us. If that’s handling pressure then no one has any chance.

 

[Daysleeper]

You mean the man who holds the record for most goals scored in champions league quarter finals, semi finals and finals?

Yeah... Good argument there buddy

He’s a great player but very very few teams if any can afford their best goal scorer to be a passenger in the most crucial stages of a tournament like the semi final and final of CL or the final of the Europa and still win. That is definitely a luxury.

He’s shown up in many big games but even when he doesn’t like in the 2014 and 2016 CL and Euro final his teams still win

 

[Zehner]

Didn't see the first Argentina game and just watched a compilation of Messi's performance. Again, I can't understand why he gets critiized for such games for the national team. Sure, he didn't score and he should've converted the penalty but honestly, he had so many good passes, dropped deep in order to initiate attacks and had many good and efficient dribbles. It is just beyond me how you can blame a player after such a performance. It is like he gets only appreciated if he scores which isn't fair to a player who offers so much more to a game of football than the last contact before the ball passes the line..

 

[MJJ]

These are Ronaldo fans. United are secondary at best. They rarely post on any other subject.

I can still see Ronaldo crying face first on the floor after missing the a penalty in the CL final for us. If that’s handling pressure then no one has any chance.

Missed a penalty against barca as well but I dont think that was handling pressure. More a poor penalty taker, he scored in the final, quarters and was voted the fans man of the match in the final.

 

[Revan]

Footballing Maradona>Messi>Pele>Ronaldo​

Peak Messi>Maradona>Pele>Ronaldo

Consistency Messi>Ronaldo>Pele>Maradona
Longevity Ronaldo>Messi>Pele>Maradona
Big Moment Ronaldo>Maradona>Pele>Messi
Achievement Pele>Ronaldo>Messi>Maradona
Legacy Pele>Maradona>Ronaldo>Messi
​

Maradona has never ever had a season as good as any of top 5 Cristiano's seasons. So, unless by peak you mean his 1986 WC performances, it is very unfair to put him ahead of Ronaldo in that category.

Mostly agree with your rating though, although in legacy it would be Pele > Ronaldo = Messi > Maradona for me, especially considering that the legacy of Messi and Ronaldo is still being written.

 

[2mufc0]

Missed a penalty against barca as well but I dont think that was handling pressure. More a poor penalty taker, he scored in the final, quarters and was voted the fans man of the match in the final.

Yeah he's got better at them, missed quite a few for us.

 

[Daysleeper]

Didn't see the first Argentina game and just watched a compilation of Messi's performance. Again, I can't understand why he gets critiized for such games for the national team. Sure, he didn't score and he should've converted the penalty but honestly, he had so many good passes, dropped deep in order to initiate attacks and had many good and efficient dribbles. It is just beyond me how you can blame a player after such a performance. It is like he gets only appreciated if he scores which isn't fair to a player who offers so much more to a game of football than the last contact before the ball passes the line..

Ronaldo also suffered a lot against Iceland. Going up against a parked bus is always a nightmare. Hopefully Croatia gives more space up

 

[Riverized157]

Both Portugal and Argentina have a snowball in hell's chance of winning this tournament. They're both extremely mediocre. Messi basically dragged Argentina to the Copa America finals two years ago, and this team is significantly worse than that one. And Portugal won the Euros with a combination of disciplined defence, penalty shoot-outs, an extremely fortunate draw (they played Croatia, Poland and Wales in the knockout stages), and sheer luck. I will be extremely surprised if either of them gets anywhere near the final. Messi would have to play out of his skin for Argentina to do anything, but their defence is just appalling. It's hard to see how they will cope when they play decent teams.

Portugal are probably marginally better in practical terms because they at least know how to defend, but they looked like a very moderate team against Morocco. They were basically outplayed against Spain; that game created a completely false impression of their level. If you take away the dubious penalty and the best keeper in the world throwing one in, they basically created nothing. Ronaldo is a great goalscorer, but he offers nothing creatively, so as Portugal get to the latter stages he will inevitably do nothing, as he did during the Euro knockout stages and CL final, as he won't get any supply. Nice for him to get a few tap-ins now.

Argentina must win their group, otherwise they will run into France and almost certainly lose.

What are you talking about? He scored one and assisted for the other against Wales in the Semi Final. The goal from Quaresma against Croatia was an open goal tap in from Ronaldo shoot and he scored his penalty against Polonia. As for the Champions he had scored in every final he played previous to that one (all four!!!) and he also is the player with more goals ever in the competition and also with more goals from the quarter finals onwards... you must leave in some parallel reality or something... the guy just scored an hattrick against arguably the best national side in the world... it doesnt get any difficult of geting any supply then playing against Spain...

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I don't want to debate as these were off the top of my head and I might change my mind tomorrow (and I am already editing my picks as I think of more)

Footballing/Technique Cruyff > Messi > Zico > Maradona > Platini​

Peak R9 Fenomeno > Messi > Maradona > Beckenbauer > Cruyff

Consistency Pele > CR7 > Di Stefano > Beckenbauer > Messi
Longevity Pele > CR7 > Di Stefano > Stanley Matthews > Maldini
Big Moment Maradona > Pele > Beckenbauer > R9 Fenomeno > Zidane
Achievement Pele > Beckenbauer > Di Stefano > Zidane > CR7

​

 

[shamans]

Absolute fecking madness the way people think the debate has been comprehensively swung by THREE GAMES from the WC group stages. Of course “absolute fecking madness” more or less sums up this whole omnishambles of a thread.

This is the World Cup . 10 or so games can literally cement ones legacy as the GOAT so I don’t think it’s madness

 

[Charles Miller]

I dont think there's a best player in the history. Its impossible to know if those genius of the past would have the same impact today even with the correct preparation.

The best players that i watched were
1 - Maradona
2 - Peak Ronaldo.

It doesn't mean that i would pick them to my team over Messi and Cr7. If it make any sense.

 

[MrEleson]

Cruyff > Messi > Zico > Maradona > Platini

How does Zico have more technique than Maradona?

 

[Wiltord02]

I would say Ronaldo is a much better/ more clinical goal machine but Messi is the better all round player.

 

[harms]

Is the writter a Barcelona fan?

Sergio Xaviniesta? What gave it away?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

How does Zico have more technique than Maradona?

Personal preference, Don't want a debate as I said but I've watched a lot of both in the 80s and few friends and I always thought Zico was just slightly more skilled technically but Maradona was more big game player

Also this