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Meulensteen: How do you solve a problem like Paul Pogba?
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Not according to the caf. The consistent drop off in his absence is a coincidence.
Our best midfielder
The more time passes since Meulensteen's time at Old Trafford, the less respect I have for his opinions. He seems to have a high opinion of himself but has achieved feck all since he came out from under Fergie's wing. The stuff about Hererra is just stupid. It's as though he only started watching United in 2019.
EDIT: And even if he did start watching in 2019, surely to feck he saw Spurs absolutely bossing central midfield against Pogba/Hererra in the second half of our one nil win, without any specialist central midfielders on the pitch!
EDIT: And even if he did start watching in 2019, surely to feck he saw Spurs absolutely bossing central midfield against Pogba/Hererra in the second half of our one nil win, without any specialist central midfielders on the pitch!
You first need to decide what you want from him.
Do you want him to get forward and score goals and assists (he's on track for 15+ each this season) or do you want him to stay back. There's no winning for Paul Pogba - when he does the latter he's at fault because we're not scoring goals so what is the point of this 90m player. If he gets forward he's not a true midfielder.
For me, we win games when Pogba attacks the box. He's probably the second best goal scorer and by far the best assist maker in the team. I would personally prefer it if we can create opportunities for him to repeatedly get in the box - and for that we need to increase the threat from the right, and as Rene says someone like Herrera to compensate for the imbalance it creates. But that is not down for me to decide.
Do you want him to get forward and score goals and assists (he's on track for 15+ each this season) or do you want him to stay back. There's no winning for Paul Pogba - when he does the latter he's at fault because we're not scoring goals so what is the point of this 90m player. If he gets forward he's not a true midfielder.
For me, we win games when Pogba attacks the box. He's probably the second best goal scorer and by far the best assist maker in the team. I would personally prefer it if we can create opportunities for him to repeatedly get in the box - and for that we need to increase the threat from the right, and as Rene says someone like Herrera to compensate for the imbalance it creates. But that is not down for me to decide.
He's right, but what we need next to Herrera is a Carrick type player. A player who can find Pogba when in between the lines. As good as Herrera is at winning the ball, he is a really safe player.
A midfielder of say:
Pogba (Advanced Playmaker) Pjanic (Deeplying Playmaker) Herrera (Ball winner)
It would be similar to that of the midfield Pogba played with at Juventus where Pirlo was the deeplying playmaker and Vidal was the box to box ball winner.
We really should be trying our best to keep hold of Herrera.
A midfielder of say:
Pogba (Advanced Playmaker) Pjanic (Deeplying Playmaker) Herrera (Ball winner)
It would be similar to that of the midfield Pogba played with at Juventus where Pirlo was the deeplying playmaker and Vidal was the box to box ball winner.
We really should be trying our best to keep hold of Herrera.
Wouldn’t we
Just be perfect with players of that ilk?
The problem is Pogba needs the midfield built around him so he can fully show his worth. The problem with that is he might up and feck off any summer, so what’s the point
Vidal actually often played further forward than Pogba for Juventus. But back then, Pogba wasn't expected/required to score as many goals as he is here.
Herrera isn't the answer because he's inconsistent himself. We need to focus on signing an upgrade of Herrera and Matic too if affordable. If not McTominay is a good replacement.
Buy Kante, he hates it at Chelsea anyway.
The midfield at Juventus was never built around Pogba nor was the midfield for France.
The Juventus midfield was built around Pirlo and Vidal. Pogba and Marchisio just complemented it really well.
What you mean is he wasnt setup to score as many goals as he is here.
Obviously we have Pogba, who on his day, is one of the best around, in my opinion.
In Herrera, whilst not as good going forward as Vidal, he is just as solid defensively.
What we really lack is a deeplying playmaker. We didn't replace Carrick and it shows.
Players like Verratti, Pjanic, Kroos, Neves, etc could come in and play that role.
He was a novice TBF. Remember how young he still is
Looks like he's not our player come the summer, so certainly not the answer. Would appear he's agreed to join PSG.
I thought about Juve when I posted. My answer is that that midfield was exceptional, and if we had a Pirlo dictating then I’ve no doubt Pogba would shine
If Conte/Allegri played a midfield diamond then Vidal would play behind the forwards, with Marchisio coming in to do the leg work. Either way, the balance was always there. We lack balance.
No doubt he would. That’s what we need
France’s midfield isn’t as good but their defence and forwards make up for it.
Pogba's problems at United have almost nothing to do with who we partner him with in midfield. At least not in the manner that Meulensteen is talking about anyway.
He's absolutely right. Herrera is far from perfect and he is definitely not a midfield playmaker but with the lack of mobility (Matic) and being arsed (Pogba) in United's midfield he is absolutely vital.
Herrera's main qualities are his leadership, intelligence and mobility. What amuses me about this place is posters who criticise the team's lack of effort, mobility and leadership and then say that Herrera isn't missed at all.
But the fact that United under Ole have a fantastic record with him in the team means nothing because surely everyone remembers those one or two games where (although United won) the other team had a few shots. Imagine not dominating the midfield for 90 minutes away at the Champions League semi finalists. He's rubbish. Let's play McTominay instead.
Herrera's main qualities are his leadership, intelligence and mobility. What amuses me about this place is posters who criticise the team's lack of effort, mobility and leadership and then say that Herrera isn't missed at all.
But the fact that United under Ole have a fantastic record with him in the team means nothing because surely everyone remembers those one or two games where (although United won) the other team had a few shots. Imagine not dominating the midfield for 90 minutes away at the Champions League semi finalists. He's rubbish. Let's play McTominay instead.
Herrera's absence has been one of the factors that have underpinned our recent poor performances
That would work so nicely. Truth.
I'm guessing that's aimed at me, for my comment about the Spurs game?
Just for the record, in terms of specialist central midfielders, Hererra, Pogba and Matic were fighting a midfield battle against Harry Winks and Harry Winks alone for the whole of the second half in that game. A second half in which we had our arses handed to us from start to finish. With Spurs running through our midfield for fun.
But sure, Hererra is the player we need to get the most out of Pogba. Makes perfect sense.
And this is the "short-term 2019 memories only" version of this discussion. If we strain our grey matter a little bit harder, we should be able to just about remember fecking umpteen other games with a central midfield featuring Pogba and Herrera that was clearly not fit for purpose. What's happening here is the standard - injured player becomes world class/missing piece of jigsaw in his absence - crap that we see on here time and time again. Then said player returns, we all realise he's actually not as good as we thought and we're actually still a bit crap. Rinse and repeat. Groundhog fecking Day.
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I agree with that. But not just Herrera. Pogba does much better with runners all around him. Bring in a quality forward like Mbappe who is always willing to run and that would massively improve Pogba’s performances. Problem is that when he doesn’t have those runners, he looks way out of his depth.
Brilliant, mate. Absolutely brilliant!
Herrera is brilliant, it’s baffling how little he’s rated here.
Not really. I am sure even McTominay would say his technique is not as good as Pogba's.
Fred and mctominay have played well though. I think the midfield has been the least of our problems when Matic don't play. The movement and quality from our attackers have been the biggest problem why we don't score recently and then De Gea has been the biggest reason why we have conceded a lot. I also think Pogba has done well in our last few games.
I think pogbas defensive effort have been fine. He struggled a bit against West Ham funny enough since we had a fairly open team then with only two central midfielders.
Herrera has been missed, but not the big reason why our attackers and De gea all have lost form.
I think pogbas defensive effort have been fine. He struggled a bit against West Ham funny enough since we had a fairly open team then with only two central midfielders.
Herrera has been missed, but not the big reason why our attackers and De gea all have lost form.
He only was speaking about Pogbas best games ffs calm down. Hes not saying Herrera is perfect, just Pogba plays better with him in the side.
Well said, couldn't agree more.
Remember how Moulensteen
wouldn’t shut up when Moyes was here and some people fell into thinking he knows what he’s saying, then it turned out he’s shite at Fulham and look at his career since.
Who cares what he says?
wouldn’t shut up when Moyes was here and some people fell into thinking he knows what he’s saying, then it turned out he’s shite at Fulham and look at his career since.
Who cares what he says?
We need to model our midfield towards that Juventus midfield Pogba was part of or a midfielder that resembles forward thinking managers. At United we have no one that fits the characteristic of a deep lying playmaker. Even though Fred has done well as a classic destroyer, football has progressed from that and we see the likes of City, Arsenal, Barcelona, Chelsea and so on deploying smart cdm.
Neves and Tonali should be on our list of players we need to get this summer. I feel Ole is tactically inept, and he would go for someone like Declan Rice and not understand what we actually need in our midfield.
Neves/Tonali
Fred/McTominay - Pogba/Gomes/Andreas
This midfield will get the best out of Pogba. Preferably I would rather keep Herrera and play him as the rcm, but Fred and Mctominay has showed, they are very good ball winners.
Neves and Tonali should be on our list of players we need to get this summer. I feel Ole is tactically inept, and he would go for someone like Declan Rice and not understand what we actually need in our midfield.
Neves/Tonali
Fred/McTominay - Pogba/Gomes/Andreas
This midfield will get the best out of Pogba. Preferably I would rather keep Herrera and play him as the rcm, but Fred and Mctominay has showed, they are very good ball winners.
Comparing him to Yaya and Berbatov is a bit of a slight. Probably true though as he so often plays the game at his own pace, hanging onto the ball too long or not responding to losing the ball.
It's not that we need to build a team to get the best out of Pogba it's that we need to build a team that copes with having a luxury player.
It's not that we need to build a team to get the best out of Pogba it's that we need to build a team that copes with having a luxury player.
Is that even true, though? All we can say for certain, based on what we've seen under Ole, is that Pogba's best games have been against weak opposition. The fact Hererra also played in those games doesn't tell us a whole lot tbh. Just like it doesn't tell us much when we're losing to top teams with a lineup that doesn't happen to feature Hererra.
If anyone can give examples of Pogba playing really well - against quality opposition - with Hererra in the team then I'd be more likely to accept Muelensteen's point.
EDIT: Although, yeah, fair enough. It's definitely possible that Pogba plays better with Hererra in our starting line-up than he does with the alternatives. If only because Hererra is better than the alternatives. Which isn't saying much.
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No caf knows that Rene knows nothing. Herrera is crap and need to get sold. We need passionate people like Jones and Smalling in the team.
Fair enough and your maybe right. But if you were to pick Utds best midfield 3 or 4 surely them 2 would feature together? There is nobody else.
My 3 midfielders would be Pogba Herrera Mctominay.
Mctominay sitting herrera breaking up play and Pogba (doing virtually nothing
) spraying passes and getting forwards.I just want these players to play for each other and move the ball quickly. Pogba invites so much pressure because he doesn't release the ball early enough, a lot of times others dont help with their movements but that's no excuse for allowing yourself to be surrounded by 3 opposition players.
We are utterly shite from top to bottom, that is a fact that must be accepted. Over the next 3 windows it has to be 10 in and 10 out because outside of 3 or 4 players there is nothing.
We should keep a player of Pogba's undeniable ability but we are not in a position to play these silly games with him. If he wants out so be it, that money would easily buy 2 players that would make us a lot better then we are now. Or Ed could give it to Bale because man buns are trending.
It's so depressing knowing that any talented player we have wants out while the dross in the squad and our highest paid player are happy to fly under the radar and contribute fecking nothing.
We are utterly shite from top to bottom, that is a fact that must be accepted. Over the next 3 windows it has to be 10 in and 10 out because outside of 3 or 4 players there is nothing.
We should keep a player of Pogba's undeniable ability but we are not in a position to play these silly games with him. If he wants out so be it, that money would easily buy 2 players that would make us a lot better then we are now. Or Ed could give it to Bale because man buns are trending.
It's so depressing knowing that any talented player we have wants out while the dross in the squad and our highest paid player are happy to fly under the radar and contribute fecking nothing.
I actually just added an edit to my reply. Your initial explanation of Rene's point was actually fair enough. Pogba probably does play better with Hererra in the team than he does without him. I shouldn't really have disagreed.Fair enough and your maybe right. But if you were to pick Utds best midfield 3 or 4 surely them 2 would feature together? There is nobody else.
My 3 midfielders would be Pogba Herrera Mctominay.
Mctominay sitting herrera breaking up play and Pogba (doing virtually nothing