Nails it!
Meulensteen: How do you solve a problem like Paul Pogba?
- Thread starter #07
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yeah, you're right. I was trying to make it a bit more obvious.
Xavi would have become a back pass genius in this team, exchanging passes with our CB's the whole game.
To be fair Messi struggling would equate to a +25 goals season instead of +40. It's not for you but I genuinely wonder if people are serious when they bring Messi into the conversation because he is a forward and probably the best ever. If people were to make a comparison Modric at Tottenham would be a better example and I will be honest I don't remember the games where he dragged Tottenham by himself, they never finished higher than 4th with a very comparable team to the one we currently have.
Would you have been so bullish or sacked Hazard off when he finished 10th with Chelsea and was unable to score until April in the league in 2015-16 or when they finished 5th last season? There’s a pretty good chance Pogba with United is going to have finished ahead of Chelsea in the last two seasons and I’m not sure many would say that Hazard’s teammates are poorer than Pogba’s.
Sanchez’s final two seasons at Arsenal saw them fail to qualify for the CL for the first times since 1997. Since Sanchez left Arsenal they’ve already improved and certainly not regressed.
You’ve got to seriously spin Chelsea’s and Arsenal’s recent seasons to depict them as being indebted to a single world class individual carrying them to remarkable feats.
Maybe I’ve completely misunderstood your post.
Edit: Misunderstood!
Last edited:
Yep, you could say that. His point has gone absolutely flying past your head.Have Arsenal really improved since Sanchez though @TMDaines? I mean, Arsenal finished 3rd in his first season, 2nd in his second season and 5th in his final full season.
How have they done since then?
Last edited:
I don't really follow, Sanchez wasn't alone during these years. During the first and second years Cazorla, Koscielny and Ozil were playing at a high level, while Giroud was relatively prolific.
Have Arsenal really improved since Sanchez though @TMDaines? I mean, Arsenal finished 3rd in his first season, 2nd in his second season and 5th in his final full season.
How have they done since then?
That was his point @JPRouve. His final comment gave it away: "You need world class teammates to not put out average performances for 2 months straight."
Playing with better players makes you better.
I'd replace "some" with pretty much "all".
In Pogba's first season we somehow got away with playing him in a 2 man midfield thanks to Ander. And this season, Pogba's most productive season, his good form came in a midfield 3 with Matic and Ander next to him. We need someone who works selflessly for the team like Ander to do the defending and hard work Pogba doesnt do when we dont have the ball.
If we dont have that player we might as well sell Pogba this summer because he wont be anywhere near as good next season and now would be the time to cash in if we ever sell him.
I'm pretty sure that it was sarcasm but maybe I missed something.
Aguero works harder closing players down than Pogba does in half his games. So no, producing going forward is not an excuse not to work for the team when we dont have the ball. City wouldnt be where they are with their players taking a vacation when they dont have the ball.
In some games Pogba does do his part. There are other games where he doesnt. For example he didnt bother tracking back against PSG on their opening goal. He was our furthest forward player and Martial, Rashford and Lingard jogged back a little bit. Pogba didnt bother doing even that
Aye, maybe I missed it, now you've made me doubt myself.
What's certain is, Sanchez looked better next to his Barca teammates, and then next to Cazorla, Koscielny and Ozil who were playing at a high level. Since Sanchez and Cazorla left Özil looks half the player, at United Sanchez looks half the player. For Juventus Pogba looked incredible, at United it's much harder.
Playing with better players helps everyone.
If you want to fix Pogba it's easy - just unsubscribe from his social media accounts. Once he sees his followers abandoning him I can guarantee his agent will panic then order him to start performing again
Eden Hazard at Chelsea, Dani Parejo at Valencia. And thats this season - Pogba's best.
Struggling for Messi would be 20 goals and 6 assists
Pogba is better in Fifa than real life and that probably pulls the wool over people's eyes.
If Real bid we should bite their hand off providing it's at least the same amount we paid for him with transfer fee inflation included.
The arguments people are making here are silly. "Sign Eriksen and he'll work with Pogba", no he won't, Eriksen will probably have to do all the running for him and we'll need to sign Kante as well
If Real bid we should bite their hand off providing it's at least the same amount we paid for him with transfer fee inflation included.
The arguments people are making here are silly. "Sign Eriksen and he'll work with Pogba", no he won't, Eriksen will probably have to do all the running for him and we'll need to sign Kante as well
Another silly argument
If we were going to surround the squad in galacticos it would've been done before now. Instead of the nearly men Lukaku, Sanchez, Pogba and De Gea
You could say that about any player in the league to be fair providing they work hard.
If we were going to surround the squad in galacticos it would've been done before now. Instead of the nearly men Lukaku, Sanchez, Pogba and De Gea
Obviously I meant misunderstood!
Have Arsenal really improved since Sanchez though @TMDaines? I mean, Arsenal finished 3rd in his first season, 2nd in his second season and 5th in his final full season.
How have they done since then?
That 2nd was with 71 points, which is a ludicrously low amount needed to do that. 70 probably won’t be enough for 4th this year and that’s not at all unusual. I meant improved this season relative their last, given they have a good chance of a European final. They’ve certianly not regressed.
He's always going to have his fanboys who bring in the merchandising or advertising or sponsor money
For the good of the team we need a rebuild and I would sell him like Liverpool sold Coutinho and invest it better.
He's apparently asking for a wage rise when he's been rubbish for more than half the season.
Can you imagine him doing that in a real United side with Beckham, Ronaldo, Keane or Scholes or even Rooney? No neither can I. Same goes for De Gea.
Roy Keane and Paul Scholes are world class midfielders who have won titles in this league and I trust their previous comments about Pogba
For the good of the team we need a rebuild and I would sell him like Liverpool sold Coutinho and invest it better.
He's apparently asking for a wage rise when he's been rubbish for more than half the season.
Can you imagine him doing that in a real United side with Beckham, Ronaldo, Keane or Scholes or even Rooney? No neither can I. Same goes for De Gea.
Roy Keane and Paul Scholes are world class midfielders who have won titles in this league and I trust their previous comments about Pogba
Eriksen cost about a third of the money and has better stats and probably better running stats too. Probably a better presser.
We could buy
Kante: 50m (if Chelsea are willing to sell, which they probably aren't )
Neves: I don't know, people usually laugh at my price for him
Saul: 80M
And then we'd have the best midfield in the league.
Kante: 50m (if Chelsea are willing to sell, which they probably aren't )
Neves: I don't know, people usually laugh at my price for him
Saul: 80M
And then we'd have the best midfield in the league.
And Eriksen has 1 year left on his contract so we might be able to get him for 35-40M (if he wants to come here, again, unlikely)
I don’t want a player who sucks ass when mediocre players are around him. I want a player makes mediocre players around him better. Pogba is not that player. Never will be. For god fecking sake you don’t need a fecking world class midfield to a job against Wolves and Everton now do you?
It wasn't just aimed at you. You are one of many posters making the same or similar points.
As for the bolded above, it is nonsense. The Spurs midfield 3 was Winks, Alli and Eriksen. That is pretty much their first choice midfield (maybe Dier for Winks). 2 England internationals and probably their 2nd best player. Sissoko, who has had a really good season for Spurs, also played in the first half (the one United dominated).
I am not for one minute saying that Herrera is the missing piece of the jigsaw and that they'll win 8-0 if he plays at the weekend. But because of what he brings to the midfield and the style of play Ole wants to play, the team is far better with him in it. It was obvious how key he was at the start of Ole's reign and just as obvious since he's been injured.
Losing him this summer will be a big blow. Matic's form has been deteriorating all season, defensively he's been poor and his legs seem to have completely gone. Fred has improved but gets caught on the ball as the deepest midfielder regularly and is defensively suspect. Pogba's form is wildly inconsistent. McTominay and Pereira try their best but aren't first team quality just now.
Herrera is the one reliable player in that midfield. He's no superstar and United should be able to sign midfield players with more quality. But they have far more pressing priorities.
As for thinking back a little bit further. Herrera won United's player of the season when he played next to Pogba in that "not fit for purpose" midfield.
I laugh at any hypothetical prices people chuck on players without a known release clause, because unless their manager has come out and said they're available for £X then it's undoubtedly been plucked from the deepest depths of their arse.
if herrera is the answer then we are asking the wrong questions.
he is better than a number of the other midfielders we currently have but not worth the number he reportedly is after.
overpaying other players wouldn’t justify overpaying herrera. the real issue is how we let him get to the last 2/3 months of his contract in the first place.
considering most want/believe pogba is off i don’t see the point in paying a player £200k to cover his arse if he’s not here.
more than anything if he doesn’t want to be here enough to accept our offer he should be thanked & allowed to leave. overpaying sánchez doesn’t justify the current squads demands.
he is better than a number of the other midfielders we currently have but not worth the number he reportedly is after.
overpaying other players wouldn’t justify overpaying herrera. the real issue is how we let him get to the last 2/3 months of his contract in the first place.
considering most want/believe pogba is off i don’t see the point in paying a player £200k to cover his arse if he’s not here.
more than anything if he doesn’t want to be here enough to accept our offer he should be thanked & allowed to leave. overpaying sánchez doesn’t justify the current squads demands.
It is really doubtful when a player can only be good when playing alongside a certain player. This sounds like excuses.
If you are good you are good. No ifs and buts. Pogba level have been fluctuating with the almost the same set of players in the team
If you are good you are good. No ifs and buts. Pogba level have been fluctuating with the almost the same set of players in the team
Chelsea have better players than us. Sarri incorrectly utilising them does not detract from that. Can't comment on Parejo as I've not watched Valencia this season. I don't know what your last sentence is supposed to mean.
Supposed to be "...with Michael Carrick" and should add Zlatan to that list.
Herrera second.
That season 16/17 with two man midfield of Herrera and Pogba works, eventhough the chemistry is off, it is for sure well balanced.
The following seasons, midfield duo Pogba-Matic is so bad, but mid trio Pogba-Matic-Herrera is a lot better.
Then again, I don't remember Pogba played so bad when McTom is playing holding midfield role so.. but they weren't given much opportunity to play together.
Herrera second.
That season 16/17 with two man midfield of Herrera and Pogba works, eventhough the chemistry is off, it is for sure well balanced.
The following seasons, midfield duo Pogba-Matic is so bad, but mid trio Pogba-Matic-Herrera is a lot better.
Then again, I don't remember Pogba played so bad when McTom is playing holding midfield role so.. but they weren't given much opportunity to play together.
200k for Herrera would be fine in todays market. Giving him a four or five-year contract would not.
Problem: Pogba is expected to be Later day Paul Scholes who could run the show, Goal scorer like Lampard and run around like Kante all at once.
They want Pogba to be a 2013 Gareth Bale
Solving the "problem" with Pogba will only be done by bringing better players into the team. He's the only creative player we have. He's class and he wants and deserves to be playing with other class players. Simple as that! If he's carving out chances for the likes of Lukaku week in week out for example and getting zero in return then it's not surprising he loses his motivation.
'What to do to get the best out of Pogba'
Probably the most discussed topic in world football in the last three years.
Probably the most discussed topic in world football in the last three years.
It’s not about being “good”, it’s about being effective.
Even those who denigrate Pogba have to admit he is a “good” player - even Keane and Souness admit his talent. In fact, most people accept he’s actually “world-class”, whatever that means. It’s about whether he is effective - is he actually producing on the pitch, consistently enough, and what conditions are necessary for both him and players like him, to do so? What level of teammates, what level of coaching, what sort of tactical plan/philosophy, are needed?
Managers have always built their teams around players. Pogba is no different. He is struggling in this side - just as peak Scholes, or peak Keane, or peak Giggs would have struggled. They would have been less effective than they could have been surrounded by better teammates.
That is the point. Pogba could be (and I daresay, will be when he joins a better team in the summer) far more effective surrounded by better quality teammates. He certainly is trying - he’s been our best player by some distance this season. He’s clearly a couple of levels better than anyone else in the squad - blaming him for not carrying this squad further up the table is ludicrous, as are the Hazard comparisons. Hazard has a far better set of teammates. Pogba has actually done well this season, and I doubt he’s going to accept this mediocrity any longer. Top players want trophies. He’s off, and who can blame him?
Pogba is the bad apple that we need to get rid of. Then we need 2 Warriors and a Playmaker in the middle.
What is the basis for that claim?
Anyone can see that he doesn't want to be here by the performances he is putting in, and he will do anything to get the transfer he wants to Real.
Keane, Neville, Carragher, Scholes, all can't be wrong. The dressing room has to be right for a team to perform.
SAF solved it. Ole can do the same thing, but this time get some dosh.
So you have nothing and simply made it up?
Was the dressing room right under Moyes and LVG? Is the dressing room different and was the team performing?