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Meulensteen: How do you solve a problem like Paul Pogba?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yeh no problem.
This.
Its not a coincidence that Pogba has been at his best when Matic has decided to put in a shift, and actually seem like the player he was three years ago. We seriously need a new DM more than anything. Problem is that there is not that many players out there like Busquets or Fernandinho. Or a younger Javi Martinez. Neves might become that player, but I am not sure that he is ready to carry United in what is the most important position in the team. He would still be my first choice this summer though.
The actual big problem with Pogba, is that he must be the best player in the world by far, who needs certain other players round him.
Other top world class players make the others better, we seem to constantly have a battle of who to put in around him.
It's not the End of line Rooney argument, but it's along those lines!
Other top world class players make the others better, we seem to constantly have a battle of who to put in around him.
It's not the End of line Rooney argument, but it's along those lines!
Sign 7 other world class players and put him in the side as just a passer like Kroos
Meh. I'd rather sell him. At least 3 quarters of the time here he has been just another player like Lingard in terms of contribution.
Meh. I'd rather sell him. At least 3 quarters of the time here he has been just another player like Lingard in terms of contribution.
How do you solve a problem like Pogba?
Sell him to Barca, or Juv or any team that has the most possession in the league and watch him shine. Or build a entire team around him so we are that team with all that possession...He will never be the player people want him to be or thinks he is unless hes playing for the best team, make what you will of that..
Sell him to Barca, or Juv or any team that has the most possession in the league and watch him shine. Or build a entire team around him so we are that team with all that possession...He will never be the player people want him to be or thinks he is unless hes playing for the best team, make what you will of that..
Matic, Herrera and Pogba is fine. Problem is our attackers and FBs. If Pogba is locked,we are doing feck all.
Fabinho, Milner,Hendo and Genie is hardly world class but their attack and full back are so perfect that it complement well.
Fabinho, Milner,Hendo and Genie is hardly world class but their attack and full back are so perfect that it complement well.
There is no pogba problem.
Some cohesive football will help. Too many players doesn't even do the basics and we'rre taking about some imaginary pogba problem. He's the only one that looks like a footballer most of the weeks.
Some cohesive football will help. Too many players doesn't even do the basics and we'rre taking about some imaginary pogba problem. He's the only one that looks like a footballer most of the weeks.
United needs a true 8 who can contribute more going forward with and without the ball. Herrera has the tenacity and intelligence and usually legs to play up and down the right channel and sit next to the 6 or deepest central midfielder when defending/staying compact.
But Pogba isn't considered a central midfielder under Ole, he's an attacking player. The issue with that, is if you mark the deep central midfielder, keep Pogba in front of you or marked (which pushes him further away from opposition goal), United have to punt the ball forward or go wide...and teams continue to defend inside and out against United.
Part of the issue is just how the team matriculates the ball up the pitch. It seems like it's the responsibility of only a couple of players instead of a team effort to get the ball up the pitch (Shaw or Young) on the flanks and Pogba through the middle, but then Pogba is the key player in the attacking third to unlock the defense.
That's where Herrera/the 8, the right side flank player (Young), need to provide creativity/service that Pogba can't always do himself because he (Pogba) needs to be a target himself in and around the box.
But Pogba isn't considered a central midfielder under Ole, he's an attacking player. The issue with that, is if you mark the deep central midfielder, keep Pogba in front of you or marked (which pushes him further away from opposition goal), United have to punt the ball forward or go wide...and teams continue to defend inside and out against United.
Part of the issue is just how the team matriculates the ball up the pitch. It seems like it's the responsibility of only a couple of players instead of a team effort to get the ball up the pitch (Shaw or Young) on the flanks and Pogba through the middle, but then Pogba is the key player in the attacking third to unlock the defense.
That's where Herrera/the 8, the right side flank player (Young), need to provide creativity/service that Pogba can't always do himself because he (Pogba) needs to be a target himself in and around the box.
If your outlet is Young/Valencia then that is a big part of the problem.
And when I see the sign that points one way
The lot we used to pass by every day
Just walk away Rene
You won't see me follow you back home...
The lot we used to pass by every day
Just walk away Rene
You won't see me follow you back home...
Problem is our CBs too, shite at playing with any ounce of composure.
I actually thinking our midfield is the one ok part of our team, it’s our defence especially that ensures we often get dominated by better sides.
Meulensteen is a Jose lover.
We could play football
Like it's meant to be
Have some proper midfielders
With great creativity
Herrera is currently far better than Mctomminay. A few good games from Scott and all of a sudden he's better than Ander? Absolute most reactionary fanbase in the world.
I remember when Januzaj was going to tear it up too.
Rene is a bit of a rent-a-quote these days, for United
Shows a certain lack of class at times
Shows a certain lack of class at times
You're not wrong. I've been impressed with Shaw this season, so would probably have LB down as not a problem position, when he's available. I also think Lindelof is developing into a decent CB, albeit with some reservations. I'm far less confident about every other fecking position on the pitch!
Pogba's had me tearing my hair out for most of his United career but if we had his quality in every other player in our XI (warts an' all) we'd be a hell of a lot better than we are right now.
Name a player of his calibre playing with teammates with the level we have here.
Good point
Pogba is the best midfielder in the world so not possible to name a player of his calibre
Sad thing is that you believe it
So, Paul plays alright in Juventus with good players around him.
Paul.plays alright in the France team with good players around him.
Paul plays like shit in Man United with what players around him?
Wake up ffs.
Paul.plays alright in the France team with good players around him.
Paul plays like shit in Man United with what players around him?
Wake up ffs.
Even Scholes said Messi would struggle herePogba is the best midfielder in the world so not possible to name a player of his calibre
Sad thing is that you believe it
He's 26, not young anymore.
He’s not even playing like shit, you can still see his class even when he’s having an off game.
There’s really all he can do, Xavi would’ve looked even worse in this team.
The discontent with Pogba comes from so much of our hope and prayers being utterly reliant on him, and him alone. Because he so much better than everyone else, the scrutiny for every mis-step taken is multiple times higher than it should be or would be in a team with equally able players all tasked to do the job in the team they were recruited for.Good point
In a top class team, one player will pick up the baton from another and afford them off days, or days where they aren't at their absolute best; we've had that for over two decades here with the majority of Fergie's teams, and pretty much all players in the bracket of talent Pogba has, have it wherever they are playing their club football, too.
The exasperation with Pogba is grossly misaligned to the point of parody. If people would actually take a few step backs and look at the landscape of football across all leagues, and its history, having a player so above his team-mates is the anomaly, and having one that consistently carry others to such an extensive degree as Pogba is expected to happens but a few times per decade. The scrutiny Pogba is under is preposterous.
Does that post even make sense to you?Pogba is the best midfielder in the world so not possible to name a player of his calibre
Sad thing is that you believe it
26 isn’t young? He joined us when he was 22/23?
He was at Juve as a teenager or thereabouts. The point being made was about his role and responsibility at Juve. He wasn’t expected to be the driving force when you had Pirlo and Vidal who were world class.
At Utd he’s expected to be the fulcrum of the side with only one decent midfielder partnered; Herrera. And he’s hardly world class.
Oh boy, here come the Messi comparisons. Messi actually dribbles past 3 players and slots it into the bottom corner. Pogba starts a dribble, does a shimmy, loses the ball and waves his hands about.
Messi could play in the Championship and score a goal a game.
I appreciate Rene for the work he has done here, but ever since he tried to claim credit for SAF's work I havent really taken him seriously. Good youth coach thats about it.
Just a goal? His average for La Liga and the UCL is ridiculous.
As evidenced by the superfluous performance and output for Argentina vis-a-vis his club side. Right.
I didn't want to go too far, because obviously talents like Messi and Pogba can't play to their normal levels with shite players
You're failing at the basics here. International football is not the same as club football. You barely get to train and build patterns, you are going off very little in international football.
A championship team that focuses on getting Messi the ball as much as possible would piss the league. He'd easily score a goal a game based on the level of players he is facing.
Messi wouldn’t last 10 minutes away to Millwall, mate.
That's not why Messi's output isn't the same. Or are you actually putting forth the contention that it's international football that's the issue, for real?
Herrera played 3 years with Pogba...and Pogba was the best player in the world during 2 months were Rashford, Martial and Lingard were running a lot in front of him...but yeah we should give the credit to the spanish fraud.
I was talking about McTominay being a good replacement for Matic. We desperately need to sign someone as an upgrade to Herrera or we’ll just keep getting by on mediocrity.
It's quite harsh to say that. All he really needs is a functional midfield, and he can play his part in that. But he can't do it all by himself which is basically what he's been expected to do since we signed him.
Pretty much every top team of the last 20 years or so has had at least two players (often more) who share the duties between them to control the team around and create the chances. Normally one will play a bit deeper and do more of the general controlling the tempo and the team's shape, and the other will play a bit more forward and create more of the chances. But they have a large overlap where they help each other out. Our own two great teams have had Keane and Scholes (with help from Beckham), then Carrick and Scholes (with help from Rooney and Giggs). Not even counting the teams that Pep has been managing (he takes it to an extreme), the other great Real, Juve, Bayern, etc teams will almost always have at least two playmakers working together.
Meanwhile, we've got Pogba. Ultimately he's relied on to do it all himself as there is no other player in the squad remotely close to good enough in that aspect.
Wanting a three man midfield that is well balanced between playmaking and defensive duties amongst the three of them isn't really needing to build the midfield around Pogba. Pretty much any other midfielder we would want to sign will need the same thing. It's just a balanced functional midfield. But it's something we haven't had since he's joined us.
Remember though that Pirlo and Vidal left a season earlier than Pogba, and from my understanding that last season without them was his best.
Let's not also forget how much easier a composed and dominant ball playing back 4 make life for any midfielder. That Juventus side had Bonucci and Chiellini, Evra... oh and they had Tevez up top.
Pogba needs a better defence much more than he needs a midfield built around him, I'd argue every single one of our players needs that too. If you don't have that, too often you'll be dominated.
McTominay's best games have generally been when he's been playing more of the Herrera role, rather than the Matic role. It's Matic that we desperately need to replace ASAP as his legs are gone defensively and he's not good enough when on the ball to compensate. If we do that properly we can go another year with Herrera/McTominay (maybe Fred?) giving us the work horse in the midfield.
In saying that, I do feel there is an unfortunately strong possibility that Pogba won't be here next season, in which case we'll basically have to rebuild the entire damn thing.
Spare a thought for Alexis Sanchez, who has not only faded into obscurity at United, but his performances for Arsenal have also been forgotten. Also Hazard who has been carrying Chelsea for years. These players do not exist because they carried their mediocre teams, and we know thats not possible. You need world class team mates to not put out average performances for 2 months straight.