Meulensteen: How do you solve a problem like Paul Pogba?

[vidic blood & sand]

So you have nothing and simply made it up?

Was the dressing room right under Moyes and LVG? Is the dressing room different and was the team performing?

You'd have to assume that Pogba would want some serious assurances about how ambitious the club is, because at the moment it's looking unlikely we're going to compete with the top teams unless we seriously invest. This season we added Fred to the squad. If Pogba wants to play and compete with the best, he'll be looking to leave.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

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Anyone who thinks he'd just walk into and stay in a Pep and Klopp team without a significant adjustment to his movement and work rate is absolutely delusional and not worth debating with. On the wider point, there isn't enough discussion about the wider English League being in a unique space that puts players like Pogba (6'4", slow, likes space when he dribbles) at a massive disadvantage. The pace is much quicker than other leagues, the physicality aspect over the last three years he clearly has huge problems with.

He's starting at disadvantage just by playing in the Premier League to begin with because his attitude and work rate aren't compatible with what it needs to be a complementary and productive player. Plus United itself has a history of hard running, fight and power (which he has). There is more that Pogba has to come to the table with when it comes to fixing the issues next season and improving our league position.

 

[Bestietom]

So you have nothing and simply made it up?

Was the dressing room right under Moyes and LVG? Is the dressing room different and was the team performing?

I made it up. Do you know anything about football. Pogba is not performing and everyone else can see it. You may be a fellow countryman of his but you cannot make excuses for him. I won't get into this with you as It seems a waste of time.

 

[JPRouve]

You'd have to assume that Pogba would want some serious assurances about how ambitious the club is, because at the moment it's looking unlikely we're going to compete with the top teams unless we seriously invest. This season we added Fred to the squad. If Pogba wants to play and compete with the best, he'll be looking to leave.

That's a different point to claiming that is a bad apple or that he doesn't want to be here. I mean do you want players that don't care about the ambition of their team and are just happy to take a paycheck until they retire? Also what you are saying is fair to the point where you say that about most players in the team, at least most players that have some ambition, collective and personal.

 

[JPRouve]

I made it up. Do you know anything about football. Pogba is not performing and everyone else can see it. You may be a fellow countryman of his but you cannot make excuses for him. I won't get into this with you as It seems a waste of time.

You make claims that you can't support and now try to dodge simple questions. And who exactly in this team is performing and performing better than Pogba?

 

[Yakuza_devils]

It’s not about being “good”, it’s about being effective.

Even those who denigrate Pogba have to admit he is a “good” player - even Keane and Souness admit his talent. In fact, most people accept he’s actually “world-class”, whatever that means. It’s about whether he is effective - is he actually producing on the pitch, consistently enough, and what conditions are necessary for both him and players like him, to do so? What level of teammates, what level of coaching, what sort of tactical plan/philosophy, are needed?

Managers have always built their teams around players. Pogba is no different. He is struggling in this side - just as peak Scholes, or peak Keane, or peak Giggs would have struggled. They would have been less effective than they could have been surrounded by better teammates.

That is the point. Pogba could be (and I daresay, will be when he joins a better team in the summer) far more effective surrounded by better quality teammates. He certainly is trying - he’s been our best player by some distance this season. He’s clearly a couple of levels better than anyone else in the squad - blaming him for not carrying this squad further up the table is ludicrous, as are the Hazard comparisons. Hazard has a far better set of teammates. Pogba has actually done well this season, and I doubt he’s going to accept this mediocrity any longer. Top players want trophies. He’s off, and who can blame him?

You could say the same about any other player. Of course any player will play better or be more effective if they were surrounded by quality players in the team. Case in point, Cleverly used to play for us in midfield and was considered as "effective" because he was surrounded by world class players.

We are not asking Pogba to be like Ronaldo or Messi or to lesser extend Neymar, Mbappe, Aguero, B. Silva and etc that can lift a team. We just want him to show more commitment for a start by shutting his mouth about RM. Then, show more fight and grit when the chips are down.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Anyone who thinks he'd just walk into and stay in a Pep and Klopp team without a significant adjustment to his movement and work rate is absolutely delusional and not worth debating with. On the wider point, there isn't enough discussion about the wider English League being in a unique space that puts players like Pogba (6'4", slow, likes space when he dribbles) at a massive disadvantage. The pace is much quicker than other leagues, the physicality aspect over the last three years he clearly has huge problems with.

He's starting at disadvantage just by playing in the Premier League to begin with because his attitude and work rate aren't compatible with what it needs to be a complementary and productive player. Plus United itself has a history of hard running, fight and power (which he has). There is more that Pogba has to come to the table with when it comes to fixing the issues next season and improving our league position.

There is more to football than Pep or Klopp.

Zidane is perfect example of a player that wouldn't fit the stereotypical Klopp/Pep player but he's still one the best players to ever play the game.

 

[Ekeke]

Chelsea have better players than us. Sarri incorrectly utilising them does not detract from that. Can't comment on Parejo as I've not watched Valencia this season. I don't know what your last sentence is supposed to mean.

I mean this is Pogba's best season and these 2 players are playing as well as he has.

Chelsea dont have better players than us. Even with Mourinho's terrible tactics we came 2nd with this pool of players and then we added Fred.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I mean this is Pogba's best season and these 2 players are playing as well as he has.

Chelsea dont have better players than us. Even with Mourinho's terrible tactics we came 2nd with this pool of players and then we added Fred.

It's starting to look more and more like we came second because of Mourinho's terrible tactics.

 

[shahzy]

He's absolutely right. Herrera is far from perfect and he is definitely not a midfield playmaker but with the lack of mobility (Matic) and being arsed (Pogba) in United's midfield he is absolutely vital.

Herrera's main qualities are his leadership, intelligence and mobility. What amuses me about this place is posters who criticise the team's lack of effort, mobility and leadership and then say that Herrera isn't missed at all.

But the fact that United under Ole have a fantastic record with him in the team means nothing because surely everyone remembers those one or two games where (although United won) the other team had a few shots. Imagine not dominating the midfield for 90 minutes away at the Champions League semi finalists. He's rubbish. Let's play McTominay instead.

Agreed. The point isnt that Herrera is a massively great and amazing player the point is a midfield needs a guy who mops up (Herrera, Busquests that type of player), a guy who passes between the lines (Xavi, scholes, Pjanic, Kroos. We don't have one of these and haven't since Carrick), a guy who is more attacking and gets between the lines (Iniesta, Pogba etc). The point is that this balance needs to be there and the players need to know their roles within a midfield trio. When Herrera is there, there is balance to the midfield somewhat and that is what allows Pogba to play the furthest up of the midfielders and play better. Without a player like Herera, Pogba is asked to play deeper in a position he can play but not to the same level as he can when he's the furthest forward. We are in a weird position where by we are asking Pogba to play both as the furthest forward and help back defensively and this is resulting in him stuck in the middle between those positions and thus playing way worse than before.

I just wish people would see this as the real issue. Not Pogba as a player, but the balance. And if he still plays shit and not to the people who don't want him here's liking, then fair enough sell him but until the moment where we have a balanced midfield then we really should not be selling him unless he asks to leave.

 

[Fortitude]

I mean this is Pogba's best season and these 2 players are playing as well as he has.

Chelsea dont have better players than us. Even with Mourinho's terrible tactics we came 2nd with this pool of players and then we added Fred.

Chelsea clearly have better players than us, 2nd does not trump 1st. Subsequent managerial mires doesn't change the quality of personnel - their players have achieved more in the league and would do so again with a PL-able manager at the helm. Of course, ageing is a factor here, and they mightn't be what they were, but apart from De Gea, Shaw and our striker, their players have a stronger, proven case for a combined xi than ours. We added Fred.. you omit we lost Zlatan and Fellaini. How many would argue we came off better for doing so?

Pogba is in a dysfunctional side, not built around him, or should I say, when it was, he thrived - Hazard is an everything conduit for Chelsea with an entire side built around him to get the best they can out of him. The conditions are not the same.

It doesn't make a good case against if Pogba's output is what it is in averse conditions as opposed to the optimal platform of total deference afforded to Hazard.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

There is more to football than Pep or Klopp.

Zidane is perfect example of a player that wouldn't fit the stereotypical Klopp/Pep player but he's still one the best players to ever play the game.

Pep and Klopp represent the 20+ point pinnacle in styles that we are trying to catch up to. I'm not sure what Zidane has to do with any of this, rather bizarre and disingenuous deflection of attention to the nuts and bolts of the discussion. I guess we can chalk another one up on the list of excuses "but Zidane was great!"

 

[BringKlebersonBack]

You could say the same about any other player. Of course any player will play better or be more effective if they were surrounded by quality players in the team. Case in point, Cleverly used to play for us in midfield and was considered as "effective" because he was surrounded by world class players.

We are not asking Pogba to be like Ronaldo or Messi or to lesser extend Neymar, Mbappe, Aguero, B. Silva and etc that can lift a team. We just want him to show more commitment for a start by shutting his mouth about RM. Then, show more fight and grit when the chips are down.

Well, he wants to leave, so responding to questions about Real Madrid seems reasonable. He’s fighting when he’s on the pitch - it’s obvious when you watch him. He wants to win.