[lawliet354]

Tbf one of Carrick's weakness is he sometimes wilt under pressure, when you compare him to Xabi Alonso or Busquets, clearly both of them are superior under pressure, you almost cannot force them to make mistake, but I do think Carrick's defensive ability, mainly his positional awareness is better than both of them


I just think 3 of them is super good, while the two of them are better attacking wise, I think that Carrick is better defensively but compared to Busquets and Xabi, I think his passing under pressure is not on par, however I still think Carrick's one of the best midfielder on this era though

 

[Jaybomb]

Carrick should never be compared to Busquets or Alonso.

Hes doing a good job for us at the minute and hes been a great servant but I hold him up there with the likes of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker. Good players on their day but never world class like Busquets, etc.

Right now hes an important player for us though.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Scott Parker

 

[Bestie07]

Carrick should never be compared to Busquets or Alonso.

Hes doing a good job for us at the minute and hes been a great servant but I hold him up there with the likes of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker. Good players on their day but never world class like Busquets, etc.

Right now hes an important player for us though.

He shouldn't be compared to the Spanish two but shouldn't be compared to Barry and Parker either. He's comfortably better than those two and has got the trophies to show for it as well.

 

[Isotope]

Club legend, I don't think you can dispute this. Perhaps disputable where he ranks among the all-time greats but he's definitely a legend for us.

His importance to United success under Fergie's late regime (especially in Europe) is indisputable. Not to mention that he's rarely injured, and an ultimate pro on and off the field.

One thing he's in common with Keano: finding replacement like for like for both are extremely difficult. If he's as 'average' as few people suggest, it shouldn't be that hard, eh?

 

[Varun]

Carrick should never be compared to Busquets or Alonso.

Hes doing a good job for us at the minute and hes been a great servant but I hold him up there with the likes of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker. Good players on their day but never world class like Busquets, etc.

Right now hes an important player for us though.

You can't really say "up there" if you're placing him alongside Barry and Scott fecking Parker.

 

[AgentP]

Seious question - Has Carrick always been this good since we signed him or has he improved a lot in the last 4-5 years?

 

[kunal18]

http://mufclatest.com/its-carrick-you-know-its-hard-to-believe-its-not-scholes/

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— Twitter API (@user) date

Well this has been mentioned a lot this season , but i remember i did a similar stat in LVG's first season with us and the odds were similarly stacked in Carrick's favour (odd that he was played CB for the first few matches),and im sure if we look at every season since he has been with us the numbers will be pretty much like that

 

[CG1010]

Carrick should never be compared to Busquets or Alonso.

Hes doing a good job for us at the minute and hes been a great servant but I hold him up there with the likes of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker. Good players on their day but never world class like Busquets, etc.

Right now hes an important player for us though.

This is beyond retarded in my opinion. He isn't just a good player on his day but has consistently been an integral player for a multiple PL and CL winning team. I remember many opposition fans and players said that he was the key to United playing well. He had his weakness against relentless pressing which a very good team could exploit but that was rare. Fergie's last season PL was achieved mainly through RVP and Carrick. And post-Fergie era, he has been the most important player at the club IMO - and the statistics back that up!

 

[Infordin]

A bit unfair. Alonso may well be better but I think you have to take in to consideration the difference in quality between the teams Carrick has had to play compared to the Real and Bayern teams Alonso has played.

When Alonso was firing balls at Ronaldo, Ozil, di Maria and Benzema, Carrick was working with Young, Valencia, Rooney, Javier Hernandez and Welbeck.

His midfield partners since 2011 have been Cleverly, Anderson, Jones and over the hill Giggs and Scholes. He finally got a midfield partner in 13-14 when Moyes brought in Fellaini(!)

Xabi Alonso was already a midfield genius at Real Sociedad. Before his move to Liverpool, he was playing alongside players that you have probably never heard of, in a squad far weaker than even Manchester United's squad in Fergie's last season.

Xabi Alonso was voted Spanish Player of the Year in 2003, when playing for Real Sociedad, at the age of just 21/22.

A Barca fan more than most should know how good players can look even better when they are surrounded by the right talent.

Indeed, but not great players on a great team often stick out like a sore thumb. Carrick's inability to deal with teams pressing him for the ball would have made him a liability if he played for Barcelona or Spain. One of Alonso and Busquet's greatest traits is that they are always able to pass their way out of pressure. In similar situations, Carrick would either hoof the ball (loss of possession), constantly pass it backwards (no penetration), or worst of all, give the ball away (making the team extremely vulnerable on the counter).

Carrick was indeed a very good player, but Alonso and Busquets are both great players and a level above.

 

[roonster09]

His importance to United success under Fergie's late regime (especially in Europe) is indisputable. Not to mention that he's rarely injured, and an ultimate pro on and off the field.

One thing he's in common with Keano: finding replacement like for like for both are extremely difficult. If he's as 'average' as few people suggest, it shouldn't be that hard, eh?

You can't really say "up there" if you're placing him alongside Barry and Scott fecking Parker.

This is beyond retarded in my opinion. He isn't just a good player on his day but has consistently been an integral player for a multiple PL and CL winning team. I remember many opposition fans and players said that he was the key to United playing well. He had his weakness against relentless pressing which a very good team could exploit but that was rare. Fergie's last season PL was achieved mainly through RVP and Carrick. And post-Fergie era, he has been the most important player at the club IMO - and the statistics back that up!

Scott Parker

He shouldn't be compared to the Spanish two but shouldn't be compared to Barry and Parker either. He's comfortably better than those two and has got the trophies to show for it as well.

Can't believe people still fall for it, his posts on English players are beyond laughable and it's not just Carrick.

 

[Jib]

I think that he's a bit overrated. Pogba doesn't play better with Carrick. He plays better with any decent CDM ( Herrera and Fellaini aren't ).
We should compare Carrick to Marchisio rather than Alonso, Busquets or Pirlo...

 

[Manny]

Indeed, but not great players on a great team often stick out like a sore thumb. Carrick's inability to deal with teams pressing him for the ball would have made him a liability if he played for Barcelona or Spain. One of Alonso and Busquet's greatest traits is that they are always able to pass their way out of pressure. In similar situations, Carrick would either hoof the ball (loss of possession), constantly pass it backwards (no penetration), or worst of all, give the ball away (making the team extremely vulnerable on the counter).

Have disagree with most of this.

What great team has Carrick played in where he stuck out like a sore thumb? Sore thumbs are Valdes and Mascherano. Carrick, our only signing in 06, helped us to our first league title in 4 years, our first semi in the CL in 5 years and started one of the strongest periods in the clubs history. Rather impressive considering two big players in Keane and van Nistelrooy had just left. Carrick was integral to that rebuild, the very opposite of a sore thumb.

Accusations of "hoofing the ball" and "giving the ball away" are well wide of the mark too, and "only passing backwards/sideways" is a myth by casual observers that is debunked time and again with stats.

Your emphasis on him not handling a press and suggesting he is not being able to play out of trouble, along with you being a 20 year old Barca fan, makes me wonder if you've watched the 09 CL final too many times and just formed your opinions from that.

 

[Zoo]

Xabi Alonso was already a midfield genius at Real Sociedad. Before his move to Liverpool, he was playing alongside players that you have probably never heard of, in a squad far weaker than even Manchester United's squad in Fergie's last season.

Xabi Alonso was voted Spanish Player of the Year in 2003, when playing for Real Sociedad, at the age of just 21/22.


Indeed, but not great players on a great team often stick out like a sore thumb. Carrick's inability to deal with teams pressing him for the ball would have made him a liability if he played for Barcelona or Spain. One of Alonso and Busquet's greatest traits is that they are always able to pass their way out of pressure. In similar situations, Carrick would either hoof the ball (loss of possession), constantly pass it backwards (no penetration), or worst of all, give the ball away (making the team extremely vulnerable on the counter).good player but I do think he has

Carrick was indeed a very good player, but Alonso and Busquets are both great players and a level above.

I always think that people overplayed Carrick's inability to deal with heavy pressing because of those finals against Barca, the second one at Wembley his midfield partners were Giggs then Park in what essentially was a 442 and so there was little chance against that Barca trio. Carrick's defensive reading and positioning was far superior to Alonso who often needed a Mascherano or Khedira next to him to do the yard work and hard running, and many times Alonso was reduced to the role of a hatchet man particularly in the Classico's where he was one of the main reasons the games often turned into a farce. Alonso was a good player but I do think a bit overrated and lets not forget he wasn't always great at Liverpool and at one point Benitez wanted to discard him for Gareth Barry. I don't think he is a level above.

 

[CG1010]

Can't believe people still fall for it, his posts on English players are beyond laughable and it's not just Carrick.

Ah okay, will remember then. It must be said that Carrick is hardly a 'typical' English midfielder though. Its ridiculous that their national team didn't play him that much.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

I don't think Carrick plays alot of one touch plays, I'am sorry but I don't see that. He also spends a fair bit of time on the ball before he passes it. And when he passes it in one touch it is very often a backpass or sidepass that doesn't move the ball or team forward at all.

You are all describing the Carrick of 4 years ago. This Carrick that I have been seeing the last years, he spends a fair bit of time on the ball, he very often passes it safely backwards or sideways, which doesn't move us any closer to goal. When he plays a ball forward, it certainly isn't fast and one touch as he takes his sweet time to do it and they also aren't defence splitting because if they were he would have alot more assists on his name in the last years than he has. Again the man has 3 assists spread over 3 and a half years. If he would be playing anything like how people are describing him, that output should typically be 4 or 5 times higher over such a long period of time. No he does what he can and I credit him for being such a good servant to the club but his time has been long up and right now he just brings control to the game but a cost of lacking speed and penetration. Not that Carrick is the onlyone guilty of this, our defenders sucking at build up play is also a big reason for this.

It feels like you talk about Carrick as if he were a number 10 as opposed to a no 6.

He's always going to play more safe passes in that role than forward ones, it's the same for any player in that role. Same goes for one touch play, that really only comes into play when you've reached inside the final third and not in your own half/around the halway line where it becomes a risk. Compare him to Busquets or Alonso or any other of the most renowned no 6 and they won't average more than a handful assists a year over all competitions in better teams where they're also playing more than Carrick.

 

[darioterios]

I always think that people overplayed Carrick's inability to deal with heavy pressing because of those finals against Barca, the second one at Wembley his midfield partners were Giggs then Park in what essentially was a 442 and so there was little chance against that Barca trio. Carrick's defensive reading and positioning was far superior to Alonso who often needed a Mascherano or Khedira next to him to do the yard work and hard running, and many times Alonso was reduced to the role of a hatchet man particularly in the Classico's where he was one of the main reasons the games often turned into a farce. Alonso was a good player but I do think a bit overrated and lets not forget he wasn't always great at Liverpool and at one point Benitez wanted to discard him for Gareth Barry. I don't think he is a level above.

Completely agree with you pointing out the examples people rely on when pointing out about this Carrick's flaw. Mostly they revert back to these two finals, considering you were pressed by three of the absolute best midfielders. Did Pirlo not struggle in Euro final against Spain's midfield? Furthermore, how many times has Park Ji-sung been praised here for being able to press Pirlo? Did Alonso also not struggle playing in El Clasico? For Busquets, I think one need look no further than the recent loss 3-1 against City to see how hard he found to cope with City's pressing. I find it strange when people always play this card against Carrick when the actual case is anyone will have difficulty.

 

[thepolice123]

Carrick is at least Alonso's level, some of the posts here are ridiculous.

Defensively Carrick's the superior player and he has the better short passing. Alonso has more mantle and takes more responsibility on the ball but he struggles a lot against tricky attacking midfielders.

 

[Loublaze]

Seious question - Has Carrick always been this good since we signed him or has he improved a lot in the last 4-5 years?

Yes he has. He was overshadowed by Fletcher when he (Fletcher) finally started looking like a United player after 06 and he was also dismissed by some because he wasn't as aggressive as the player many were hoping he'd replace (Roy Keane). Carrick was God-like when United beat Roma 7-1 in 2007. He was solid that first season (06-07) and in all three seasons when United won three back to back titles. His struggles have come mostly from time on the sidelines due to injury.

 

[Mike09]

I always think that people overplayed Carrick's inability to deal with heavy pressing because of those finals against Barca, the second one at Wembley his midfield partners were Giggs then Park in what essentially was a 442 and so there was little chance against that Barca trio. Carrick's defensive reading and positioning was far superior to Alonso who often needed a Mascherano or Khedira next to him to do the yard work and hard running, and many times Alonso was reduced to the role of a hatchet man particularly in the Classico's where he was one of the main reasons the games often turned into a farce. Alonso was a good player but I do think a bit overrated and lets not forget he wasn't always great at Liverpool and at one point Benitez wanted to discard him for Gareth Barry. I don't think he is a level above.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one. Carrick isn't bad in high pressing. How can a midfield who's been playing a key part in 442 formation under Sir Alex is in the category of "inability to deal with high pressing". As a midfield the only weakness of Carrick is that he doesn't have pace but he covered that weakness with great positioning and ability to read the game well. Being in the category of a player who can't handle high press and weak physical are false in my view. Carrick is an 189cm midfielder and knows how to play one touch passing while under pressure.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Yes he has. He was overshadowed by Fletcher when he (Fletcher) finally started looking like a United player after 06 and he was also dismissed by some because he wasn't as aggressive as the player many were hoping he'd replace (Roy Keane). Carrick was God-like when United beat Roma 7-1 in 2007. He was solid that first season (06-07) and in all three seasons when United won three back to back titles. His struggles have come mostly from time on the sidelines due to injury.

I think his peak though was in Fergie's last season. Had a minor dip in the two years prior then before proceeding to have what IMO is one of the best seasons a United CM has had in the PL era.

 

[Raees]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one. Carrick isn't bad in high pressing. How can a midfield who's been playing a key part in 442 formation under Sir Alex is in the category of "inability to deal with high pressing". As a midfield the only weakness of Carrick is that he doesn't have pace but he covered that weakness with great positioning and ability to read the game well. Being in the category of a player who can't handle high press and weak physical are false in my view. Carrick is an 189cm midfielder and knows how to play one touch passing while under pressure.

It is not a myth at all. The reason why United drifted into playing prehistoric and zombie like football was that post Barca, many teams started focusing on keeping possession, pressing high and we were way behind the curve on that front as our midfielders struggled to handle the pressure.. and it meant we couldn't play free-flowing possession football in certain games. I remember a side like Swansea, constantly being a thorn in our side because they would take the game to us and focus on Carrick. He was always got at whenever we played at anfield for example.

One of the biggest issues we had was Carrick struggled to pass the ball forward whenever he was pressed high up the pitch. The loss of Scholes as a partner, exposed Carrick's inability to deal with tight situations on the ball.. under LVG, he started to improve again in this regard, but definitely at his peak.. Carrick could collapse like a pack of cards when pressed in the right way.

It isn't just the Barca games, I remember against AC Milan away from home in 06/07 we got blown away and he was unable to handle the tempo of the game there too - although he wasn't the only one.

 

[Raees]

Carrick is defensively superior to Xabi Alonso, and I would argue he is as solid a CDM as you can get in a defensive sense. The only midfielders I'd put ahead of him in this regard is De Rossi, Mascherano.. possibly Busquets.

On the ball, he is a better passer than Mascherano.. but behind De Rossi, Busquets and Xabi Alonso.

In terms of bringing the ball out from the back, on the ball skills, and ability to deal with high press he is not as good as any of them, even Mascherano is superior to him in carrying the ball out, he's a better dribbler.

Carrick has been a great servant for us, but he is a tad overrated and at times underrated by our fans.

He's nowhere near a Keano in any aspect of the game, Keano was a legend a beast..comparisons to the genius of Pirlo are ridiculous too but he's no Tiago fecking Mendes/Scott Parker/Barry - that is disrespectful.

 

[darioterios]

Carrick should never be compared to Busquets or Alonso.

Hes doing a good job for us at the minute and hes been a great servant but I hold him up there with the likes of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker. Good players on their day but never world class like Busquets, etc.

Right now hes an important player for us though.

I know going by your defence of Schneiderlin you may not have a favorable view of those who don't seem the action type like Carrick. But Gareth Barry and Scott Parker, just no...

 

[berbatrick]

, Alonso was press resistant, less likely to lose the ball or misplace a pass. Alonso was also less likely to disappear or be marked out of a game. Alonso could shield the ball better than Carrick. Alonso was more technically gifted than Carrick.

Disappeared in his first few clasicos, completely over-run by Bayern in Jose's second season*, and stood out in a bad way in Spain's 4-2-3-1 forcing them into a uniformly slow tempo as compared to Barca's very mobile and technically perfect 3.


*Edit: also destroyed by Dortmund in the 4-1.

 

[Mike09]

It is not a myth at all. The reason why United drifted into playing prehistoric and zombie like football was that post Barca, many teams started focusing on keeping possession, pressing high and we were way behind the curve on that front as our midfielders struggled to handle the pressure.. and it meant we couldn't play free-flowing possession football in certain games. I remember a side like Swansea, constantly being a thorn in our side because they would take the game to us and focus on Carrick. He was always got at whenever we played at anfield for example.

One of the biggest issues we had was Carrick struggled to pass the ball forward whenever he was pressed high up the pitch. The loss of Scholes as a partner, exposed Carrick's inability to deal with tight situations on the ball.. under LVG, he started to improve again in this regard, but definitely at his peak.. Carrick could collapse like a pack of cards when pressed in the right way.

It isn't just the Barca games, I remember against AC Milan away from home in 06/07 we got blown away and he was unable to handle the tempo of the game there too - although he wasn't the only one.

I could say the same thing on Pirlo who might have an inability to pass the ball forward while under pressure based on "1 or 2 games" against Park Ji Sung. Seriously. 1 to 5 games in more than 10 years career isn't enough to call a player can't handle high pressure. AC Milan at that time had a crazy team as well especially their midfield too.

 

[Raees]

I could say the same thing on Pirlo who might have an inability to pass the ball forward while under pressure based on "1 or 2 games" against Park Ji Sung. Seriously. 1 to 5 games in more than 10 years career isn't enough to call a player can't handle high pressure. AC Milan at that time had a crazy team as well especially their midfield too.

It isn't just 1-5 games though, if it was the criticism wouldn't be as bad. Once Scholes retired, well once his powers waned.. teams would post Barca, press us alot and we struggled in a number of games. We just couldn't impose a passing game on the opposition consistently.. which is why that infamous noodle thread of zombie passing was created.

Have you forgotten the last few years of Fergies reign and the Moyes era when we really struggled to play fluent passing football. Carrick was a huge feature as to why we struggled because he lacked the nimbleness on the ball to be 'press-resistant'.. he struggled even against normal teams let alone being man-marked by a Park Ji sung.

Being marked by Park was a compliment to Pirlo that he had to be stopped from dictating the tempo. He struggled to impose his game, but how many games have you seen Pirlo be chased by the opposition and he just weaves his way through.. his on the ball skills are majestic. He lacked that little yard of athleticism which Xavi and Scholes had, which made them impossible to press no matter how hard you try but he was still an absolute legend and tiers above a Carrick as a DLP.

 

[Mike09]

It isn't just 1-5 games though, if it was the criticism wouldn't be as bad. Once Scholes retired, well once his powers waned.. teams would post Barca, press us alot and we struggled in a number of games. We just couldn't impose a passing game on the opposition consistently.. which is why that infamous noodle thread of zombie passing was created.

Have you forgotten the last few years of Fergies reign and the Moyes era when we really struggled to play fluent passing football. Carrick was a huge feature as to why we struggled because he lacked the nimbleness on the ball to be 'press-resistant'.. he struggled even against normal teams let alone being man-marked by a Park Ji sung.

Being marked by Park was a compliment to Pirlo that he had to be stopped from dictating the tempo. He struggled to impose his game, but how many games have you seen Pirlo be chased by the opposition and he just weaves his way through.. his on the ball skills are majestic. He lacked that little yard of athleticism which Xavi and Scholes had, which made them impossible to press no matter how hard you try but he was still an absolute legend and tiers above a Carrick as a DLP.

Go watch this at the first three clips the opposition players went towards him to gave him pressure and Carrick was still able to handle the pressure and made a pass.

Just because Carrick always find his own free space to make himself more comfortable doesn't mean he can't handle high pressing.

I think it's still a compliment being stopped by Gatutso/Pirlo/Seedorf or Barca trio midfield.

 

[darioterios]

It isn't just 1-5 games though, if it was the criticism wouldn't be as bad. Once Scholes retired, well once his powers waned.. teams would post Barca, press us alot and we struggled in a number of games. We just couldn't impose a passing game on the opposition consistently.. which is why that infamous noodle thread of zombie passing was created.

Have you forgotten the last few years of Fergies reign and the Moyes era when we really struggled to play fluent passing football. Carrick was a huge feature as to why we struggled because he lacked the nimbleness on the ball to be 'press-resistant'.. he struggled even against normal teams let alone being man-marked by a Park Ji sung.

Being marked by Park was a compliment to Pirlo that he had to be stopped from dictating the tempo. He struggled to impose his game, but how many games have you seen Pirlo be chased by the opposition and he just weaves his way through.. his on the ball skills are majestic. He lacked that little yard of athleticism which Xavi and Scholes had, which made them impossible to press no matter how hard you try but he was still an absolute legend and tiers above a Carrick as a DLP.

A question that needs to be asked is: Since when have United had a functioning midfield like the current one, all those years? If you don't have partners who can also support, then of course your opponents will need to target you and only you. Pirlo, Alonso, Busquets... have all had premier partners to help them in midfield. Tell me whom with Carrick since Scholes and maybe when FLetcher was still 100%?

Being marked by Park was a compliment to Pirlo's importance to the team, it's a different story to whether he was able to handle that press or not. For any points you raise to defend Pirlo, those exact points can be used to support Carrick.

 

[Raees]

Go watch this at the first three clips the opposition players went towards him to gave him pressure and Carrick was still able to handle the pressure and made a pass.

Just because Carrick always find his own free space to make himself more comfortable doesn't mean he can't handle high pressing.

None of those clips prove he can handle pressing, he is facing forward in all those clips and is carrying the ball forward. Look even if you did find a useful youtube, I watch nearly every united game every season so it isn't a judgement made on a handful of games, it is a gripe I have had with him for years.

Look at the clip below and tell me if Carrick would be able to carry out this level of footwork.. his footwork is distinctly average.

 

[Mike09]

None of those clips prove he can handle pressing, he is facing forward in all those clips and is carrying the ball forward. Look even if you did find a useful youtube, I watch nearly every united game every season so it isn't a judgement made on a handful of games, it is a gripe I have had with him for years.

Look at the clip below and tell me if Carrick would be able to carry out this level of footwork.. his footwork is distinctly average.

This is what went wrong.
Is a midfielder judged by a skill of their footwork? Clearly the clips that I showed you are actually showing that Carrick can handle high pressure. Players went to give him pressure and the clips showed that he was still able to make the pass without losing it. You don't need a high level of footwork to be a midfielder who can handle a high pressure. There are many ways to handle pressure from the opposition players without losing the ball and it's not just playing with your feet with high level of footwork.

Well I watched all United games not just nearly. Look mate, you were the first one who mentioned a few games of when Carrick couldn't handle high pressure game with no proof. I showed you clips for proof.

 

[led_scholes]

Carrick has been an integral part for us for 10 years. I do recall that between 2009 and 2011 he was struggling a lot. But in his defense he was paired either with an aged Paul Scholes or with Darren Gibson. I think Scholes' departure helped him because he was given his preferable role of DLP. It doesnt matter if he is on par with Alonso or just a level beneath him. What matters is that we have to find a replacement at least as good as him to ensure Pogba's freedom.

 

[Raees]

This is what went wrong.
Is a midfielder judged by a skill of their footwork? Clearly the clips that I showed you are actually showing that Carrick can handle high pressure. Players went to give him pressure and the clips showed that he was still able to make the pass without losing it. You don't need a high level of footwork to be a midfielder who can handle a high pressure. There are many ways to handle pressure from the opposition players without losing the ball and it's not just playing with your feet with high level of footwork.

Well I watched all United games not just nearly. Look mate, you were the first one who mentioned a few games of when Carrick couldn't handle high pressure game with no proof. I showed you clips for proof.

Your clips haven't proved anything? The first clip is Carrick playing a pass while surrounded by players, well yes. Carrick is reknowned for his passing.. who doubted that... the second clip is him running into space while facing forwards, and the third clip.. he is in acres of space, so where is this magnificent footwork under pressure that you speak of.

Look having played CDM - trust me when I say, footwork is very important in that role especially in the modern game where focused pressure to stop teams from playing out via their DM is very important. You don't need the footwork of a winger - although the very best like Verratti have exceptional ball skills, but you do need to have some tricks in your locker to avoid being closed down.

Being very comfortable on the ball, allows you to have the confidence to shield the ball, get around the guy who is pressing you and being able to create your own space to make the forward pass. Guys like Busquets, Verratti are geniuses in that regard.. you can't press them because their footwork is too good. I've seen Busquets pull off 360 spins, when he is being put under pressure and still keep the game moving forward.


Video of Pirlo's dribbling skills, another level to Carrick.

If you think footwork is not important in midfield, you either don't pay enough attention to the game or you haven't played in midfield. If you are a coward on the ball in midfield, and you always pass back or sideways under pressure, your team will struggle to get a foothold of the game and they can impose their game on you.

Obviously Carrick isn't a complete donkey in this regard, he is a champions league class DM but he is definitely lacking in the footwork respect compared to the world class DM's of the past 10 years and the clips you showed don't prove that he can consistently throughout a game, handle a press.. turn his man and keep the game moving forward. Even Fletcher was better than him in this regard, he was more comfortable in tight spaces and wouldn't pass back under pressure.

People confuse Carrick's brilliant passing ability for being comfortable on the ball. Being able to spot and execute a pass is one thing, but being able to carry the ball under pressure while your back is to goal and you've just recieved a pass from your CB's is a different skillset. It is the skillset which separated Scholes from guys like Gerrard/Lampard.. who when put in centre mid where space can be congested, didn't know how to create time on the ball.. he had more silkiness on the ball and better awareness in tight spaces.

Since LVG came, he has actually gained in confidence under pressure but there is no doubt at his physical prime, he was not great under a press.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Your clips haven't proved anything? The first clip is Carrick playing a pass while surrounded by players, well yes. Carrick is reknowned for his passing.. who doubted that... the second clip is him running into space while facing forwards, and the third clip.. he is in acres of space, so where is this magnificent footwork under pressure that you speak of.

Look having played CDM - trust me when I say, footwork is very important in that role especially in the modern game where focused pressure to stop teams from playing out via their DM is very important. You don't need the footwork of a winger - although the very best like Verratti have exceptional ball skills, but you do need to have some tricks in your locker to avoid being closed down.

Being very comfortable on the ball, allows you to have the confidence to shield the ball, get around the guy who is pressing you and being able to create your own space to make the forward pass. Guys like Busquets, Verratti are geniuses in that regard.. you can't press them because their footwork is too good. I've seen Busquets pull off 360 spins, when he is being put under pressure and still keep the game moving forward.


Video of Pirlo's dribbling skills, another level to Carrick.

If you think footwork is not important in midfield, you either don't pay enough attention to the game or you haven't played in midfield. If you are a coward on the ball in midfield, and you always pass back or sideways under pressure, your team will struggle to get a foothold of the game and they can impose their game on you.

Obviously Carrick isn't a complete donkey in this regard, he is a champions league class DM but he is definitely lacking in the footwork respect compared to the world class DM's of the past 10 years and the clips you showed don't prove that he can consistently throughout a game, handle a press.. turn his man and keep the game moving forward. Even Fletcher was better than him in this regard, he was more comfortable in tight spaces and wouldn't pass back under pressure.

People confuse Carrick's brilliant passing ability for being comfortable on the ball. Being able to spot and execute a pass is one thing, but being able to carry the ball under pressure while your back is to goal and you've just recieved a pass from your CB's is a different skillset. It is the skillset which separated Scholes from guys like Gerrard/Lampard.. who when put in centre mid where space can be congested, didn't know how to create time on the ball.. he had more silkiness on the ball and better awareness in tight spaces.

Since LVG came, he has actually gained in confidence under pressure but there is no doubt at his physical prime, he was not great under a press.

Spot on by one of my favourite posters, in terms of footwork ability on the ball Pirlo is a couple levels above Carrick and Alonso is a level above also, thats exactly why Gerrard could sometimes look stiff in that position despite his good technical ability, didn't have the foot work or low centre of gravity of a Scholes to truly evade opponents, with a jink or natural foot placement, also why he slipped against Ba, Scholes had a more continental feel to the game and while Carrick does posses some traits like that in particularly his passing, lest forget Gerrard in 13/14 was splitting defences for fun with his passing, Lampard too an underrated passer of the ball, if you look at some of his best assists is remarkable, yet none of them had that touch and close control that the likes of Scholes Pirlo Xavi had and therein lies the difference.

Carrick is a level below Alonso for me, if he had grew up in Spain he would have been every bit as good and an education at West Ham is as good of an education you could get in English football, but saying that he's more comparable to a Tiago Motta(not mendes) than he is Alonso who is one of the greatest midfielders of his generation.

 

[admrf]

I think he is doing his job really well at his role within the team. In a team who wants to dominate the game and play the ball in the opposition's half, a good CDM is a must. In the attacking phase, the CDM must be able to see the space in the first place and initiate the attack from the middle. His passing ability must excel as well and I think Carrick obviously has that ability. Not to mention, now he is rich with experience and learning, trained with and playing in Fergie attacking football (post-Keano) and alongside Scholes. He was also there during the transition of Giggs into CM position in 08 which I think gave him many dynamic experiences in the midfield area during that season. At this stage, it is easy for other players in the team now to trust him and fully respect him.

Back to the current situation; while Carrick is on the pitch and we are on the ball, the other the CM, Herrera and Pogba for instance, can also have more freedom to move and create spaces. I see Herrera often drifts to the right while Pogba to the left. When the team is not on the ball, I believe he is still capable of doing the required job to help the defense, i.e. reading games, steal the ball. Although at 35, we cannot expect him to play full 90 with 2 games per week I suppose. I do not doubt his physical condition - when he was 30, he even could still score an awesome dribble run counter attack goal vs QPR

With respect to footwork, I think it is a special ability that can make you a distinguished CDM. Although, to do that role in the current system, it is not a must-have ability in my opinion.
The problem now is that there is still not a good back-up choice for him to play the same role in the current system. According to me, ideally Basti is able to fulfill that role. But I do now know if Mou will put him there - question mark is also given to the other players whether they respect him or not. Meanwhile, in my opinion - Schneiderlin does not have enough training and the experience of playing in a dominant and attacking side - he may be prone to mistake if we put him there. Furthermore, he does not have the ability that Carrick has during the attacking phase. Herrera may be good but I think he is more suitable in the RCM role now. Other candidate may be Blind, he is an undoubtedly an intelligent player with pretty good passing ability and decent defense awareness. However, somehow I still think sometimes he is just lazy and easy to give up. He should learn to put more effort to the team at any costs - maybe a little bit above Herrera then it would be great. Also, if he can pull of a combination of amazing vision and his passing, he may be the best try that we can do based on what we have now.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

Your clips haven't proved anything? The first clip is Carrick playing a pass while surrounded by players, well yes. Carrick is reknowned for his passing.. who doubted that... the second clip is him running into space while facing forwards, and the third clip.. he is in acres of space, so where is this magnificent footwork under pressure that you speak of.

Look having played CDM - trust me when I say, footwork is very important in that role especially in the modern game where focused pressure to stop teams from playing out via their DM is very important.

If you think footwork is not important in midfield, you either don't pay enough attention to the game or you haven't played in midfield.

For a person who claims to have played as CDM you show little understanding of the kind of press a DM has to face and the kind of skill set that a player spending most of his time shielding the defence needs to have as compared to someone playing higher up the pitch. You make it sound like the press is uniform over all the areas of the pitch.

The closer to your own goal you play the lesser of a dribbling skill you need to be able to beat players and get out a compex situation. That's why you see goalkeepers and defenders getting better of onrushing opposition players with a simple feint of shouder nearly 99℅ of the time. If you wilt under pressure and give away the ball that 1% of time and opposition ends up scoring 70% of times out of that miniscule 1%, it doesn't really make a player not world class in his position. Defenders, CDMs, Goalkeepers get pressed by what one player? And that too when they have most of their own players available for a pass. It is not like they are stood near penalty area where every inch of grass is being contested.

Now, having said that, of course it is a major plus if your CDM can dribble and has a bag of tricks to turn to when on the verge of losing the ball and exposing the defence. But that is exactly what a player with the first touch ability of Carrick avoids. By saving that extra second after having to received the ball with correct foot and having turned in the right direction, he or any proper CDM nearly always avoid having to use dribbling skills. And even if he does get caught, he doesn't need to be able to do step overs or 360s to get out of there. A simple shoulder feint and a quick release will do. Which is what Carrick does so well that you think he lacks dribbling ability.

You give examles of Busquets and Pirlo!! It is like saying you need a good passer of the ball to be a great defender because Pique, Puyol can do it when players like Vidic, Terry etc could easily be better on their day despite keeping their game limited to getting the ball out of the danger and hoofing it out of their half mindlessly. The core qualities, the absolute necessary ones, the ones that bring you plaudits and make you game changer are still the basic ones. Rest of the attributes you have acquired are simply an added bonus and won't help you dominate a game from such positions. Maybe prove of use once every 50 games but something you need to call upon during each and every game? Nope.

Pirlo, with the kind of touch he has, could probably pull off ten consecutive around the worlds while Carrick may not be able to do two. I don't see how that is a barometer for comparison of their defensive capabilities. It just makes Piro a more complete player. Something Carrick or any other CDM doesn't really need to know to excel at his job. Does it occur to you that maybe Carrick is so strong in his fundamentals he doesn't really let himself dwell on the ball long enough to be crowded out and be exposed for his weaknesses over and over again? Sure you can find clips of him losing the ball due to lack of his dribbling ablities. But tell you what the man has been playing for over 6-7 years now and your clip won't even be 2 minutes long. THAT, my friend, is what makes a good CDM, not his ability to dribble out of pressure or the fact that he can't do a 360 like senor Busquets can.

 

[buckooo1978]

Carrick has all the ability to be at the top of his game alongside players like Xavi or Alonso in that role

The thing that sets those players apart from Carrick for me is self-confidence - with a wand of a foot Carrick should have been scoring 5-10 goals easily each season and taking more responsibility

Id suggest listening to Graham Hunter's excellent interview with Carrick for an insight into Carrick and his own self-belief - as I recall he talks about being happy to give the ball to Scholes and let him have responsibility rather than do it himself

Carrick has had a 8/10 career at United - I cant help but feel with more confidence, being more dynamic and grabbing games by the scruff he could easily be a 9 if you get my meaning

 

[devilish]

Pirlo should be compared to Scholes (in his late period of his career) not with Carrick.

 

[SambaBoy]

Carrick should never be compared to Busquets or Alonso.

Hes doing a good job for us at the minute and hes been a great servant but I hold him up there with the likes of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker. Good players on their day but never world class like Busquets, etc.

Right now hes an important player for us though.

I don't think Carrick and Alonso's careers were that different, I agree both were not on the same level as Busquets.

Alonso's career is overrated, he was on his way out of Liverpool but then had one really good season and left for Madrid. Fair play, he was very good for Madrid at times but Carrick has also been top class for us. It's close between the two of them IMO.

 

[Cassidy]

I don't think Carrick and Alonso's careers were that different, I agree both were not on the same level as Busquets.

Alonso's career is overrated, he was on his way out of Liverpool but then had one really good season and left for Madrid. Fair play, he was very good for Madrid at times but Carrick has also been top class for us. It's close between the two of them IMO.

Not because he wasn't good, the manager was just an idiot