Michael Carrick - Middlesbrough Manager

[Abraxas]

We don’t talk about VdG because ETH controls everything. The only reason we spoke so much about Carrick/McKenna is Ole hung them out to dry and even supposedly refused extra coaches when offered.

That's exactly the point. Under ETH there is zero doubt about who is in control and who is responsible for the football we play. A manager that manages and has authority at the club. He wouldn't even think about outsourcing a footballing philosophy to a bloody coach on a fraction of the wage and who has a fraction of the responsibility, because he knows they're just an extension of him and ultimately that can't save him or bring us success. I'm fairly sure he would find it embarrassing to ever suggest that after poor performances what we saw is van der Gaag's or McLaren's coaching.

To then say what we see on the pitch is Carrick's coaching is in complete contradiction of this fairly obvious idea that managers are tasked with overall responsibility. What we saw is the mess Ole created. A bunch of players with little respect for the manager, no footballing direction, scattergun transfers that weren't good enough. That's why I'm kind of confused that you say it "makes sense" to suggest that what we saw was Carrick's coaching when actually what we saw was about way more than that.
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[tomaldinho1]

That's exactly the point. Under ETH there is zero doubt about who is in control and who is responsible for the football we play. A manager that manages and has authority at the club. He wouldn't even think about outsourcing a footballing philosophy to a bloody coach on a fraction of the wage and who has a fraction of the responsibility, because he knows they're just an extension of him and ultimately that can't save him or bring us success. I'm fairly sure he would find it embarrassing to ever suggest that after poor performances what we saw is van der Gaag's or McLaren's coaching.

To then say what we see on the pitch is Carrick's coaching is in complete contradiction of this fairly obvious idea that managers are tasked with overall responsibility. What we saw is the mess Ole created. A bunch of players with little respect for the manager, no footballing direction, scattergun transfers that weren't good enough. That's why I'm kind of confused that you say it "makes sense" to suggest that what we saw was Carrick's coaching when actually what we saw was about way more than that.
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I get what you're saying and, of course, the vague direction came from Ole. I say vague because from what we can gather as fans he basically said build me a pressing attacking team and then they would figure out how to do that - not particularly fair on either of them. My point is simply that Ole confirmed they were in charge of training and so whatever we saw on the pitch was directly coming from their training - they had lots of issues to deal with and lots of egos but I think it's air to say from what we saw they weren't ready to be leading training for a club trying to compete it the CL. I do, however, hope they get there in their careers.

 

[philnguyen1994]

Already on West Ham's radar to replace Moyes according to the Times. West Ham fans seem open to the idea:

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Seems consistent with Boro's loan manager Neil Maddison, who also works as a commentator on BBC Tees. Out of nowhere on Saturday, he said something along the line of "Our biggest challenge to promotion this season is to keep hold of Carrick from Premier League clubs", which caused some concerns among Boro fans on their boards and Twitter.

Personally, can't see why Carrick would rush into a relegation dogfight with West Ham right now when Boro is within reach of automatic promotion, or at least the favourite to win the play-offs. Seems a loyal honourable man who's settled up North.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

Why would he give up next season in the Premiership to manage West Ham in the Championship?

 

[united_99]

I never liked West Ham. I know Carrick came through their youth system, but I hope he stays away from them.

 

[philnguyen1994]

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He committed to Boro till the end of the season ... but it sounds like if Boro misses out on promotion (unless they nick 2nd from Sheff Utd, the play-offs can be a bit of a lottery) and West Ham stays in the PL, he'll be tempted.

 

[top1whoisman]

Four points off from automatic promotion to the PL with Sheff Utd losing again and Boro turning a 0-1 at HT to a 3-1 win.

 

[philnguyen1994]

3-1 away win at Swansea to cut the gap to 2nd to 4 points (Sheff Utd no longer has a game in hand)

Spoiler: Super Michael Carrick

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The weather conditions were rubbish and their final balls were a bit sloppy at times but came away with a fairly comfortable win in the end after conceding a goal from a freak deflection.

 

[Sunny Jim]

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He committed to Boro till the end of the season ... but it sounds like if Boro misses out on promotion (unless they nick 2nd from Sheff Utd, the play-offs can be a bit of a lottery) and West Ham stays in the PL, he'll be tempted.

regardless of the speculation, what a classy response

 

[SlothIsLove]

Hope they got the 2nd place and he stays with them for a few seasons at least.

 

[Samid]

Hope the madman pulls off automatic promotion.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Great day for him with Sheffield United losing, and yet another Boro win.

 

[Lee565]

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He committed to Boro till the end of the season ... but it sounds like if Boro misses out on promotion (unless they nick 2nd from Sheff Utd, the play-offs can be a bit of a lottery) and West Ham stays in the PL, he'll be tempted.

Knew this was coming, hope he stays clear, west ham just like Everton are one of those clubs that never do any managers any favours as they have underlying fundamental issues that see them constantly floating around the relegation zone every other season

 

[andersj]

Knew this was coming, hope he stays clear, west ham just like Everton are one of those clubs that never do any managers any favours as they have underlying fundamental issues that see them constantly floating around the relegation zone every other season

Agree!

I really think a big club could come in for de Zerbi this summer. Carrick should wait for that job. I think that would be a club that suits him.

(But replacing de Zerbi if they lose both Mac Allister and Caicedo will be tough.)

 

[CM]

He's really making a good stab of chasing down automatic promotion. It'd be nice to see him achieve it but if not I'm sure Carrick will have interest from Premier League teams in the summer.

 

[Skills]

I hope he gets them promoted. He'll bank a lot of credit doing it

 

[Revaulx]

If West Ham want to appoint an Old Boy I hope they go for Lampard rather than Carrick.

 

[reddev3]

I think he's going to nick 2nd, I looked at Sheffield Utd's fixture list earlier and it's pretty tough. Sheffield utd's next 3 games are Sunderland A, Blackburn H and then Norwich A. They also have Burnley A left to play where as Middlesborough have to play them at home.

Middlesborough only have one hard away game left and that's Luton which isn't until the 2nd to last game of the season where they vey may well be in second place and flying by then.

 

[always_hoping]

When Michael Carrick took over, Middlesbrough were 21st. Now only 4 points off 2nd.

 

[top1whoisman]

When Michael Carrick took over, Middlesbrough were 21st. Now only 4 points off 2nd.

15-1-4 in 20 league matches. 75% win rate, 2.3 points per game, 45:20 goal difference.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

God I hope he stays away from West Ham. A sh*t show of a club.

 

[1988]

Think he'd be best of staying at Boro for a season or two more. I feel like many younger managers bite more than they can chew when moving to bigger clubs somewhat early. There's still a lot of experience to gain at Boro.

But who am I to say, I clean stairs for a living.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Didn‘t Roy Keane have a similar huge turnaround at Sunderland? (going from bottom end to play off position)

Interesting to see both him and McKenna doing so well. No doubt they’ll be getting bigger opportunities that will be stupid to turn down on paper but may be bad decisions long term in terms of a managerial career if they grab them.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

Delighted to see it working out for him and McKenna. Ridiculous criticism of them both when they were here from people who couldn't possibly be in a position to judge them.

 

[WelshManc]

When Michael Carrick took over, Middlesbrough were 21st. Now only 4 points off 2nd.

Almost identical to Cooper at Forest last season.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

Middlesbrough have scored 3+ goals in their last 6 out of 7 games. Pretty impressive.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Would be so great if he can manage it. But I do hope he makes the right moves over the next few years. Sometimes managers jump at making the next step only to be saddled by a bad club dynamic.

 

[DJ_21]

Hope he gets promoted with Middlesbrough and stays with them for at least a season in the prem to gain more experience. He’ll get a nice warm welcome at OT.

 

[next_number_seven]

Would be so great if he can manage it. But I do hope he makes the right moves over the next few years. Sometimes managers jump at making the next step only to be saddled by a bad club dynamic.

100%.
I think they jump too quickly at the first big job offer. Better to work your up over time.
Lampard is case in point.

Rooney is actually managing his career quite well.
ETH is textbook career progression.
Martin O'Neill did similar. Fergie also.

If Carrick gets Boro promoted and keeps them up a few years, then he could go for a Villa or Everton type job.
Then if he does well there for few years, then he might be ready for a big job.

 

[next_number_seven]

He was an extremely clever player so I'm not surprised he's doing well.

He made very few mistakes in possession.
I wouldn't say he was a limited player but he made the most of his talents.

 

[philnguyen1994]

Just smashed Preston 4-0. Very comfortable home win, despite their opponent being on a 7-match unbeaten run till today. The gap to 2nd is 3 points, but Sheff Utd has a game in hand, they're playing in the FA Cup this weekend instead.


Fair play to Preston fans who had their "Gentry Day" all wearing bowler hats and staying till the end to watch their team get battered.

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[top1whoisman]

A big one tonight, as Boro host Burnley. Live on Sky 20:00 BST. Sheff Utd play bottom of table Wigan earlier today.

Burnley 84 (38 matches played)
Sheff Utd 73 (38)
- - -
Boro 67 (39)
Luton 67 (39)
Millwall 61 (39)
Blackburn 61 (38)
- - -

 

[adexkola]

100%.
I think they jump too quickly at the first big job offer. Better to work your up over time.
Lampard is case in point.

Rooney is actually managing his career quite well.
ETH is textbook career progression.
Martin O'Neill did similar. Fergie also.

If Carrick gets Boro promoted and keeps them up a few years, then he could go for a Villa or Everton type job.
Then if he does well there for few years, then he might be ready for a big job.

Again this is nonsense.

 

[next_number_seven]

Again this is nonsense.

It's not.

 

[united_99]

Again this is nonsense.

Yep, it absolutely is nonsense.
Moyes managed a mid table club for a decade and still took the league winners to 7th place.
Zidane and Guardiola in comparison had relatively little experience and still did very well immediately.
There are so many different ways to management and different clubs and situations require different skill sets.
There’s absolutely no guarantee that a newcomer would fail and an established manager would automatically do well.

 

[next_number_seven]

Yep, it absolutely is nonsense.
Moyes managed a mid table club for a decade and still took the league winners to 7th place.
Zidane and Guardiola in comparison had relatively little experience and still did very well immediately.
There are so many different ways to management and different clubs and situations require different skill sets.
There’s absolutely no guarantee that a newcomer would fail and an established manager would automatically do well.

There's no guarantees either way but I think in general football managers are better working their way up out of the limelight before taking a high pressure job. Zidane and Pep are anomalies.

Fergie, Wenger, Rafa, Jose, Ten Hag, Klopp, Tuchel, Howe etc all worked their way up

Moyes did an excellent job at Everton but simply wasn't suited to United. That was his level. This is known as "The Peter Principle", he was promoted beyond his level of competence.

You don't want to be learning on the job in a high profile, high pressure job.

 

[Sylar]

If it remains will be 1 win in 4, shame as it looks like automatic promotion is out of touch. Will need to pick up some momentum for the playoffs

 

[Ahmer Baig]

Carrick win manager of the month. Congratulations. Well deserved.

 

[OrcaFat]

There's no guarantees either way but I think in general football managers are better working their way up out of the limelight before taking a high pressure job. Zidane and Pep are anomalies.

Fergie, Wenger, Rafa, Jose, Ten Hag, Klopp, Tuchel, Howe etc all worked their way up

Moyes did an excellent job at Everton but simply wasn't suited to United. That was his level. This is known as "The Peter Principle", he was promoted beyond his level of competence.

You don't want to be learning on the job in a high profile, high pressure job.

Well, yeah, sort of. The Peter Principle is where people are promoted from a role in which they have excelled into a more senior role which requires fundamentally different skills in which they have no competence. When Moyes came to us it was the same role but in a different “company” where expectations were higher and his existing incompetencies were exposed.

Learning on the job is essential and the question is whether you can learn fast enough to meet expectations which are generally higher at the big clubs, of course.

The likes of Middlesbrough will sack you too which is something to bear in mind. Probably there’s an argument for taking the best job you can get whilst you’re on the up because you will be in a downturn soon enough.

 

[next_number_seven]

Well, yeah, sort of. The Peter Principle is where people are promoted from a role in which they have excelled into a more senior role which requires fundamentally different skills in which they have no competence. When Moyes came to us it was the same role but in a different “company” where expectations were higher and his existing incompetencies were exposed.

Learning on the job is essential and the question is whether you can learn fast enough to meet expectations which are generally higher at the big clubs, of course.

The likes of Middlesbrough will sack you too which is something to bear in mind. Probably there’s an argument for taking the best job you can get whilst you’re on the up because you will be in a downturn soon enough.

Sean Dyche and Tony Pulis are brilliant with low budget, hard to beat teams but are probably not suited to teams that are expected to win most games.

If they were promoted above this, it would be in essence the same job but really it's a different role, requiring different skills.

I think this is what occurred to Moyes although I think he had earned the right to manage at a higher level.

Being a football manager requires quite a broad range of specific skills such as communication, psychology, coaching, tactics, identifying talent, managing a budget, managing a team of coaches and other analysts, medical knowledge.

It takes time to develop these skills. Footballers live in a bubble and although knowledgeable, still have a lot to learn about management.

I don't think it's a coincidence that so many top level managers actually never played at a high level.