Most overrated 'world class' player?

RedRonaldo

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In terms of individual ability, or the season? it depends how you're rating it. Often the Balon D'or is more weighted to performance.

Cannavaro won it the year he won the WC, but was he the best player? no.
In terms of both. I mean, I think he was not even top 3-5 midfielder in the world during the year he won Ballon D’or, if we look at his performance over the whole season.
At least Cannavaro won the WC as Italy best player, so I understand where it’s coming from. But Modric didn’t win the WC, they got beaten badly by France in 2-4 scoreline. He was only amazing mostly during group stages, so I never understand why he won it.
 

Polar

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Dani Alves belongs on the list, but is too high in my opinion.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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But Modric didn’t win the WC, they got beaten badly by France in 2-4 scoreline. He was only amazing mostly during group stages, so I never understand why he won it.
Because he was playing for Croatia.

The standard for winning a Balon D'Or while playing for Croatia can't possibly be win the World Cup, a trophy that is largely won by the same countries every time.
 

RedRonaldo

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Because he was playing for Croatia.

The standard for winning a Balon D'Or while playing for Croatia can't possibly be win the World Cup, a trophy that is largely won by the same countries every time.
I know theres lots of politic in it. But it didn’t convinced me at all:

WC - motm in few games mostly at group stages.
CL - 7.02 avg rating, 0 motm
La Liga - 7.28 avg rating, 0 motm

It’s really not so Ballon D’or worthy kind of year for any player by any standard.
 

OK_computer

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No he's not, are you high? Cafu, Carlos Alberto, Thuram or Bergomi to name a few were better. And Alves' last years with Juventus and PSG do not justify inclusion in that list (but arguably his years with Sevilla do).
Thuram was not better than Alves. Alves was one of the best attacking wingbacks in the history but unlike Marcelo he was also very good in defence. I never liked the guy, but he is easily among the best in history.
 

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It's always surprised me how much Terry is rated over Ferdinand by people. Not much between them.
Ferdinand was the more gifted but Terry had the superior mentality. Put Terry's determination, leadership and positional sense into Ferdinand and you basically have the greatest defender of all time. I think Terry gets the nod for a lot of people because even though he didn't have the pure talent that Rio did, he was consistently world class for a remarkably long time. They were both wonderful, wonderful players though and I completely understand why some people choose Rio.

One obvious name missing on that list though is Lampard.
 

roonster09

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Ferdinand was the more gifted but Terry had the superior mentality. Put Terry's determination, leadership and positional sense into Ferdinand and you basically have the greatest defender of all time. I think Terry gets the nod for a lot of people because even though he didn't have the pure talent that Rio did, he was consistently world class for a remarkably long time. They were both wonderful, wonderful players though and I completely understand why some people choose Rio.

One obvious name missing on that list though is Lampard.
Positional sense? Rio had that at superior level compared to Terry. Terry was a monster at header though.

Both excellent CBs.
 

GatoLoco

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Those players I’ve mentioned, at the very least they all rank higher than Modric in Ballon D’or in each of specific year I’ve listed above. Sure you could disagree and think all of other midfielders are overrated instead, and Modric is clearly better than them all. But I tend to agree with the list, or at least 80% of it. I just never rate Modric as the best midfielder in the world for extensive period of time like some of you do. Yes he is one of the best midfielder out there for few good years, and was among the elites (maybe top 5-10 in most other period of time) but that’s about it. I’ve seen a lot of him, especially 2018, actually Real Madrid midfield was not that good that year, they got dominated by many weaker teams in midfield for many games I’ve seen, with Modric playing. I am not sure if some of you could still remember that, but I could.
First of all, players merits should be ranked taking seasons as references. You start competitions around September and end them in May or later if there is a Euros or WC.

Second, if you use average marks to back your points you have to acknowledge 7.84 is a ridiculously high one in CL for Modric in 2013/14, especially for a player in his position. If a player gets 7.84 in 11 games, that means for him to overcome a 6 (everyone has quiet games) he will need his fair share of excellent marks in the majority of the rest of games.

Third, the fact you had to mention Modric in 2018 in a team that was declining that year when the player started to excel at Madrid in September 2013 is funny to say the least.
 

Kentonio

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Positional sense? Rio had that at superior level compared to Terry. Terry was a monster at header though.

Both excellent CBs.
I wasn't trying to say Rio's was poor or anything, but I think Terry's was better. For me that's a big part of the reason why he was able to compete at Rio's level despite not having Rio's superior natural talent.
 

RedRonaldo

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First of all, players merits should be ranked taking seasons as references. You start competitions around September and end them in May or later if there is a Euros or WC.

Second, if you use average marks to back your points you have to acknowledge 7.84 is a ridiculously high one in CL for Modric in 2013/14, especially for a player in his position. If a player gets 7.84 in 11 games, that means for him to overcome a 6 (everyone has quiet games) he will need his fair share of excellent marks in the majority of the rest of games.

Third, the fact you had to mention Modric in 2018 in a team that was declining that year when the player started to excel at Madrid in September 2013 is funny to say the least.
What so funny about mentioning Modric getting very low avg rating in 2018?

As midfielder, De Bruyne got 7.97 avg rating last season with City, now this is something I’d expect a Ballon D’or winning midfielder to be capable of doing.

If we go back to Real Madrid in 2018 CL winning squad:

- Ronaldo 8.12
- Caravajal 7.53
- Casemiro 7.36
- Marcelo 7.29
- Bale 7.21
- Benzema 7.20
- Nacho 7.19
- Ramos 7.10
- Vazquez 7.08
- Varane 7.07
- Modric 7.02
- Kroos 7.01

Yes, he is ranked at 11th in his own team.

If we go to Real Madrid in 2018 league campaign:

- Ronaldo 7.94
- Casemiro 7.49
- Bale 7.49
- Kroos 7.47
- Hakimi 7.34
- Modric 7.29

Much better, ranked at 6th in his own team.

Season 18/19?
In CL, Modric is rated at 6.93, ranked at 10th in his own team
In league, Modric is rated at 7.03, ranked at 5th in his own team

Funny observation is, since Ronaldo has left he managed to move up 1 place, so much consistency.

What do we see there? He was consistently Real Madrid 5th-6th best player in their league campaign, and 10th-11th best player in their CL campaign, from year 2017 to 2019. So it pretty much cover all of his Ballon D’or winning period.

Extremely underwhelming.


Surely season 13/14 could be possibly be one of his best season. He was rated at 7.83 in Real CL campaign (ranked 2nd), and at 7.31 in Real league campaign (ranked 8th). Well not that impressive overall actually, but still a great CL campaign for him.

Season 16/17? 4th in CL, 7th in league at Real Madrid.

I could go on and on, but it’s clear he is having a hard time getting into top 5 in his own team most of the time.

And the so called Ballon D’or winner and best midfielder in the world since 2013?

Overrated.
 
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thepolice123

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Alves was slighty better offensively but, Cafu was far better defensively than him.
Alves was not slightly better offensively. If you ask me, in terms of offensive output from a fullback, Alves and Marcelo are in a tier of their own.
 

LawCharltonBest

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John Terry.

Not saying he wasn't good. But he kept winning defender of the year when Vidic and Ferdinand were much better than him.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Marcelo was the left back for the Real Madrid team that won 4 CL's in 5 years, and was instrumental in all of them campaigns, so he was pretty nailed on to be in the FifPro team for them 4 years, it's not surprising that he managed to get into 2 more.
 

Cascarino

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Ferdinand was the more gifted but Terry had the superior mentality. Put Terry's determination, leadership and positional sense into Ferdinand and you basically have the greatest defender of all time. I think Terry gets the nod for a lot of people because even though he didn't have the pure talent that Rio did, he was consistently world class for a remarkably long time. They were both wonderful, wonderful players though and I completely understand why some people choose Rio.

One obvious name missing on that list though is Lampard.
This is basically how I see it. Ferdinand was more versatile with his pace so more comfortable in a high line, and especially in his earlier days was very good on the ball and bringing it out from the back. I think towards the end career injuries limited him
doing that so he was more likely to go long
but still a superb player. He was a very classy player and a different type tp

I think Terry didn’t have the same class on the ball (although his long range passing has always been an underrated part of his game imo) but he was brilliant at the pure art of defending. He wasn’t that slow over the first few yards tbh but when dealing with lightning quick attackers I was always impressed at how he handled them, he obviously knew his own limitations and had perfected game around them.

It’s a shame Terry was a cnut because he and Rio were about a perfect duo as you could get at the back.
 

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None of these 19 are decidedly overrated. But should I point to anyone, it will be Modric or Kroos
 

tomaldinho1

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Thuram was not better than Alves. Alves was one of the best attacking wingbacks in the history but unlike Marcelo he was also very good in defence. I never liked the guy, but he is easily among the best in history.
Yh I'd agree - Alves was pretty much a complete wing back. Nightmare to play against because he was actually class defensively as well.
 

Grylte

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Wow, this thread is full of people who clearly don't understand football.

Marcelo, Modric, Dani Alves overrated? :lol:

Some of the names mentioned here, makes me not take this thread seriously.

Just skimmed through, but i saw Bergkamp and Cannavaro mentioned, and figured i'd just ignore this thread :P
 

JPRouve

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I couldn't remember who I thought was overrated by a lot of people a few years ago, it's Varane. For years people have overrated him, giving him a bunch of qualities that he didn't have but somehow when he finally showed something in 2018, a lot of people couldn't see it.
 

berbatrick

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they persisted with some big names a bit too much (casillas, iniesta both well past their prime), and vidic/rio should have made it for 2007/8/9, but other than that it's fine.
 

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Dani Alves at 8 times seems a bit too high. Most of it is because of so many so-so RBs in last 10-15 years.
 

Suedesi

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That's quite a lot of nothing.

  • Copa América (2): 2007, 2019
  • FIFA Confederations Cup (2): 2009, 2013
  • FIFA World Youth Championship (1): 2003
  • FIFA U-20 World Cup Bronze Ball: 2003
  • Copa América Most Valuable Player: 2019
  • Copa América Team of the Tournament: 2019
Cafu won 2 World cups, last one as captain - end of conversation :-)

He also won 2 Copa Americas and a FIFA Confed cup but who cares
 

harms

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Cafu won 2 World cups, last one as captain - end of conversation :-)

He also won 2 Copa Americas and a FIFA Confed cup but who cares
I’m not comparing him to Cafu who, for me, is the best right back of all-time. I’m replying to someone who said that Alves didn’t won anything with Brazil — he did, and he even won Copa Americas MVP along the way.
 

Suedesi

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I'll leave this here - it's another Ballon D'Or Dream Team published by France Football.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_d'Or_Dream_Team

All-time Right Backs:
NationalityPlayerYearsClub with most appearancesBest result at Ballon d'Or
Italian​
Giuseppe Bergomi
1980–1999​
Inter Milan (757)​
–​
Brazilian​
Cafu
1989–2008​
São Paulo (255)​
15th in 2002
Brazilian​
Carlos Alberto
1963–1981​
Santos (445)​
Not eligible[note 1]
Brazilian​
Djalma Santos
1948–1970​
Palmeiras (498)​
Not eligible[note 1]
Italian​
Claudio Gentile
1972–1988​
Juventus (417)​
–​
German​
Manfred Kaltz
1971–1990​
Hamburger SV (724)​
–​
German​
Philipp Lahm
2002–2017​
Bayern Munich (517)​
6th in 2014
Dutch​
Wim Suurbier
1964–1982​
Ajax (279)​
–​
French​
Lilian Thuram
1991–2008​
Parma (228)​
7th in 1998
German​
Berti Vogts
1965–1979​
4th in 1975


This list seems about right - I've name checked Bergomi, Cafu, Carlos Alberto, Lahm and Thuram as being better than Alves, seems like I missed Santos, Gentile, Kaltz, Vogts and Suurbier as well

:cool: :cool: :cool:
 

Suedesi

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I’m not comparing him to Cafu who, for me, is the best right back of all-time. I’m replying to someone who said that Alves didn’t won anything with Brazil — he did, and he even won Copa Americas MVP along the way.
Fair enough then, my bad.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Ferdinand was the more gifted but Terry had the superior mentality. Put Terry's determination, leadership and positional sense into Ferdinand and you basically have the greatest defender of all time. I think Terry gets the nod for a lot of people because even though he didn't have the pure talent that Rio did, he was consistently world class for a remarkably long time. They were both wonderful, wonderful players though and I completely understand why some people choose Rio.

One obvious name missing on that list though is Lampard.
No
 

ericPSG

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Who do we miss here?

Zlatan?
Robben?
Piro?
Messi and CR7 taking 2 out the 3 forward spots most of the time make it hard for other forwards

Ribery, Robben, Benzema, Neymar etc... could have made more appearances in another decade
 

Chekov

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Cristiano Ronaldo is a bit overrated in my opinion. Great goal-scorer and thats basically it. Gerd Muller also was a great goalscorer but no one compares him with players like Messi, Cruyff and Maradona.
 

Chesterlestreet

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This list seems about right - I've name checked Bergomi, Cafu, Carlos Alberto, Lahm and Thuram as being better than Alves, seems like I missed Santos, Gentile, Kaltz, Vogts and Suurbier as well
It wouldn't be insane to include D. Alves in an all-time top 10 list of right backs based on his qualities and achievements.

In some cases (looking at the list above), it would be apples and oranges - almost: to claim that someone like Gentile was better, on the whole, than Alves is highly problematic. Gentile was a very limited player in comparison - a defensive specialist, you could say.

All in all - no, Alves clearly (for me) is not the best right back in history. But top ten (and possibly more worthy of a top ten place than Gentile) - sure, that isn't far fetched.
 

jesperjaap

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Casillas wasn't the best keeper in the world 5 years on the bounce, same as Neuer.
Definately a good shout, a very good keeper, but not world class even for me. Feel similar about Hugo Lloris who actually reminds me a bit of Casillas
 

jesperjaap

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Easy.

Zlatan.

He markets himself really well. People lap it up..
Always thought he was over rated until he went to PSG. Probably a lot of that has to do with how piss poor he always was in Europe against English sides
 

jesperjaap

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Wasn't Cannavaro a shit show himself? Looked way past it at Madrid
Absolutely not, he was a fantastic defender, better than Nesta for me, who was also excellent but I think got a bit overhyped at the same time as he was such an elegant defender on the ball. He was getting on at Madrid but no centre back could have excelled in that side at the time the way they played. Entertaining side to watch but they wre so poorly organised without the ball
 

Gibb11

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Absolutely not, he was a fantastic defender, better than Nesta for me, who was also excellent but I think got a bit overhyped at the same time as he was such an elegant defender on the ball. He was getting on at Madrid but no centre back could have excelled in that side at the time the way they played. Entertaining side to watch but they wre so poorly organised without the ball
how about at Inter?