Bloody hell. Then Pep is better than Fergie too right?I'm not denying in the short term he's a great manager
But to say stuff like "without buying the biggest names" when he's spent millions on Etoo, Ozil, Drogba, Ballack and Schevchenko.
I'm also disputing the fact if he could manage a team long term.
Do you think Pep is the best manager in the world at the moment? He's been more succesful than Mourinho in the last two years.
People keep bringing up Mourinho's trophies, so I'm saying is Pep the best manager in the world, as he's been the most successful.Bloody hell. Then Pep is better than Fergie too right?
And has he won more than Mourinho? Mourinho did a treble and league, as did Barcelona, despite the latter having a much better team.
And no of course Pep is not the best manager in the world. Silly thing to suggest.
I actually do believe your 'short term' criticism of Mourinho is valid to a point. Problem is, it is the ONLY criticism you can have against him. That's why I believe he's clearly one of the best. Barring having not done it with ONE club year after turning after turning their fortunes around, it's hard to criticize him.People keep bringing up Mourinho's trophies, so I'm saying is Pep the best manager in the world, as he's been the most successful.
The point is, when looking at trophies won, you leave out many factors which influence this.
When Inter won two leagues in a row under Mourinho, was it a great achievement? When Chelsea won the league under Mourinho, was it a great achievement?
For me his outstanding success, comes down to his two champions League wins. They really are something to be proud of. Yet his first for Porto came in a deceptively easy run and some help from the referee v us. His trophy for Inter was a great achievement no doubt.
However I do not think those two achievements put him in the greatest managers around today. I think in the short term he is a great manager, but doubts hang over him for me in the transfer market and continuing success.
Look at Rafa Benitez. If you take his first two years at a club, he has a great record. He'd have a champions league with a poor Liverpool side, an FA Cup and a La Liga with Valencia. Those four years combined at Valencia and Liverpool would make him a great manager. Unfortunately at both Valencia and Liverpool he seemed to take both teams backwards. Liverpool got progressively worse, and he left them in a very bad shape.
Mourinho has never stayed at a club longer than two and a bit seasons. When given funds he can certainly motivate his players, and he can certainly buy good players when he has massive funds (even if he does also buy a lot of poor players). When he has left his clubs after two seasons (Chelsea, Inter and Porto) they have had less money, and have suffered in the immediate aftermath.
If coming to United I have no doubt in the first few seasons with a lot of money he could help us to win trophies. I do however doubt he'd be able to work under the constraints managers like Ferguson and Wenger obviously work under, and I wonder if the short term success might hinder United in the long run.
Whilst I am impressed with his ability to do it at multiple jobs, I think he's walked into three leagues, and at all three, anything below second would have been seen as a massive misstep in management. I don't think he's had a particually hard task since he left Porto.I actually do believe your 'short term' criticism of Mourinho is valid to a point. Problem is, it is the ONLY criticism you can have against him. That's why I believe he's clearly one of the best. Barring having not done it with ONE club year after turning after turning their fortunes around, it's hard to criticize him.
The problem with your criticism of him is that you're assuming it's easy to keep winning things at different clubs and so much tougher at one club. He made his choice to travel the world winning everything there is to win in the footballing world and then settle down at a club for a long period. He's almost achieved the first one. Are you telling me there are many managers who could do that? (yes I just highlighted my own post to show the significant part!)
There's obviously a reason no other manager in recent years has done what he's done. And he's never walked into a super team like Pep has. Which is why I don't regard Guardiola as anywhere near the worlds top managers. He's had a good start but a very fortunate start as well.
Alright, so which managers would have:Whilst I am impressed with his ability to do it at multiple jobs, I think he's walked into three leagues, and at all three, anything below second would have been seen as a massive misstep in management. I don't think he's had a particually hard task since he left Porto.
I think there are many managers who would have had a simlar level of trophies if they'd had the jobs Mourinho has had. For me even though Wenger has had a worse few years, I prefer him as a manager.
They got help from the refs pretty much throughout that tournament.For me his outstanding success, comes down to his two champions League wins. They really are something to be proud of. Yet his first for Porto came in a deceptively easy run and some help from the referee v us. His trophy for Inter was a great achievement no doubt.
I think winning the CL with his two clubs were outstanding tasks showing he's a great manager. However I don't think any other trophies he's won have been that great. Look at the United team he was against at the time. Inter should have walked that league, and almost threw it away.Alright, so which managers would have:
Won the CL with Porto
Won the league with Chelsea so fast and that too back to back and SO comfortably
Won the treble with Inter
Wenger's record in Europe even when he had some incredible Arsenal teams suggests he wouldn't. And if there are others who would have, why haven't they? If anything the fact that his teams take such a nosedive and become such pale shadows of when he was in charge is a testament to how good he was.
So he's a great manager but not one of the best in the world right now? Look at how his teams fall apart once he leaves. There's a certain something the others who replace him can't quite bring to the table. His players are always terribly attached to him and speak of him in only he highest regard.I think winning the CL with his two clubs were outstanding tasks showing he's a great manager. However I don't think any other trophies he's won have been that great. Look at the United team he was against at the time. Inter should have walked that league, and almost threw it away.
We'll see if he can overcome Barca. At the moment it looks unlikely.
Mourinho has won more trophies than Guardiola?People keep bringing up Mourinho's trophies, so I'm saying is Pep the best manager in the world, as he's been the most successful.
I'd say his Inter ones weren't 'great' achievements no, in fact he very nearly lost it in his second season after being in what seemed an unassailable position in the new year. His League titles with Chelsea where he tore up the record books in his first season were great achievements, yes. His league titles in Portugal were a great achievement. Ask yourself how he got into the position to be offered the managerial job at Porto? He wasn't just handed it, he did an excellent job at his previous clubs and his talent was spotted.The point is, when looking at trophies won, you leave out many factors which influence this.
When Inter won two leagues in a row under Mourinho, was it a great achievement? When Chelsea won the league under Mourinho, was it a great achievement?
Easy run? They had a group containing Real Madrid and Marseille, and in the knockout rounds faced Manchester United, a Lyon team with the likes of Juninho, Malouda, Essien, Elber, Diarra, Govou. The Lyon team circa 2004 was an extremely good one. They then faced Deportivo, who finished 3rd in La Liga in 02/03 and finished 6 points off the title in 03/04. That Depor team was a very good one. They then faced a good Monaco team in the final. Was it as tough as our run in 1999? No, it wasn't, but it wasn't an easy run by any means. Not for a team like Porto.For me his outstanding success, comes down to his two champions League wins. They really are something to be proud of. Yet his first for Porto came in a deceptively easy run and some help from the referee v us. His trophy for Inter was a great achievement no doubt.
All that is a fair point, and none of us can be sure whether Mourinho would be suited to a long term managerial role and whether he can build team after team. Whoever takes over from SAF when he leaves will have a massive job on their hands and there will be risk involved with whoever the Glazers and Gill go for, so the best we can do is minimise that risk. The first few years after Fergie leaving are crucial IMO.However I do not think those two achievements put him in the greatest managers around today. I think in the short term he is a great manager, but doubts hang over him for me in the transfer market and continuing success.
Look at Rafa Benitez. If you take his first two years at a club, he has a great record. He'd have a champions league with a poor Liverpool side, an FA Cup and a La Liga with Valencia. Those four years combined at Valencia and Liverpool would make him a great manager. Unfortunately at both Valencia and Liverpool he seemed to take both teams backwards. Liverpool got progressively worse, and he left them in a very bad shape.
Mourinho has never stayed at a club longer than two and a bit seasons. When given funds he can certainly motivate his players, and he can certainly buy good players when he has massive funds (even if he does also buy a lot of poor players). When he has left his clubs after two seasons (Chelsea, Inter and Porto) they have had less money, and have suffered in the immediate aftermath.
If coming to United I have no doubt in the first few seasons with a lot of money he could help us to win trophies. I do however doubt he'd be able to work under the constraints managers like Ferguson and Wenger obviously work under, and I wonder if the short term success might hinder United in the long run.
In his first season he was up against an Arsenal side that had just gone the previous season unbeaten, games against Manchester United only account for 6 points. No we weren't at the best we've been but Arsenal were.I think winning the CL with his two clubs were outstanding tasks showing he's a great manager. However I don't think any other trophies he's won have been that great. Look at the United team he was against at the time. Inter should have walked that league, and almost threw it away.
We'll see if he can overcome Barca. At the moment it looks unlikely.
Yeah but you and others have it lodged in your head that he'll come in and leave after a short spell. He's talked more in the last 12 months about building a legacy at a club, and he's always talked about coming back to England and staying for a while. Where would he go after the United job if he left after 2 years?I think the first few years after Fergie we need a similar young manager who will shape his club in his image. If we get Mourinho, we're in the exact same problem 2 years later most likely. He's left us, and we need a new manager.
He wants a legacy in england, as has been said many times by the man himself, in fact the only oter job that could possibly have an appeal after that is Portugal and winning the world cup.I think the first few years after Fergie we need a similar young manager who will shape his club in his image. If we get Mourinho, we're in the exact same problem 2 years later most likely. He's left us, and we need a new manager.
True. And you can't really say it wasn't a great achievement when his team clocked up the kind of points his did.In his first season he was up against an Arsenal side that had just gone the previous season unbeaten, games against Manchester United only account for 6 points. No we weren't at the best we've been but Arsenal were.
And go where?I think the first few years after Fergie we need a similar young manager who will shape his club in his image. If we get Mourinho, we're in the exact same problem 2 years later most likely. He's left us, and we need a new manager.
Yeah, in José's head there is the big 3, him, Fergie and Bobby Robson.And go where?
He's made it quite obvious he doesn't like Italy, so it's very unlikely he'll go back there. He doesn't seem to be enjoying Spain as much as he did in England either. And even if he were interested in it, he seems to have a bad relationship with Barca, and his relationship with the Real hierarchy seems fractured at best.
Meanwhile, he loved England and has constantly said he wants to come back here. He's also constantly spoken extremely highly of Manchester United and Ferguson, who seems to be the only manager in the world Mourinho actually considers an equal (or a better). He's said that one of the reasons he likes England so much is because we give the managers more control than on the continent (which might also turn him off City and Chelsea). He's also recently said that he basically wants to take a long-term job and build a dynasty.
Add all that together, and it definitely indicates (not proves, but indicates) that Mourinho intends to come back to England after he's completed his grand slam (Portuguese, English, Italian and Spanish leagues), and stay until he eventually takes over the Portuguese job. Which he's said won't be for at least another decade.
By the way, you said earlier that the longest he'd been at a club was two and a bit years. It was actually three and a bit with Chelsea, until he got sick of Abromovich interfering more and more.
Spurs may have an opening soon....Jose Mourinho: "My passion is England and my next step will be to return there and, if possible, stay for a long time." from marca.
There are a few very long Mourinho to United threads floating about in the United forum, as well as possibly one in here as well. Just about every imaginable argument for and against are made in there.What do we reckon then, next United manager? It seems that most people have it as a foregone conclusion that he'll replace Fergie, including the media.
Jesus that's cheesy.I think he will go City before us, money talks and Jose's a ventriloquist.
I'm "sure" he does. I think his dream job is at Old Trafford.I'm sure he doesn't give a feck to be honest.
