Mourinho Gone

[Twisted Nerve]

I feel I should be watching Bill Paxton's speech from Independence Day.

So glad the miserable bastard has finally been given the heave-ho.

Pullman. Paxton wasn't in I.D.

 

[E-mal]

Got promoted when the negativity has left the club.

 

[EwanI Ted]

How is it a strawman?

The decision to sack Jose will not be proven right or wrong by whether the caretaker manager wins "most of our games now, playing swashbuckling football whilst we are at it?" It will, of course, be proven right or wrong by how we perform over the next 3 years with a permanent manager in place.

What if they are just crap like I suspect they might be? Sack the next bloke?

If they're crap, its a good job we got rid of the guy who kept buying and playing them.

 

[roonster09]

Not sure if this is posted, doesn't look good at all

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[izec]

Wouldnt be a manager sacking at United without all these inside stories coming up

 

[wolvored]

He needed to go but I really don’t get why anyone thinks it going to turn around instantly.

We need better players in at least 4 positions, 2 of our best players won’t sign extended contracts and we have brought in an interim manager who got relegated the last time he managed in the Premier League. Will Solskjær be given money in January? We desperately need a boost in the transfer market but I feel it won’t happen, City and PSG have completely inflated the market for everyone so our budget will likely get us 1 player when we need more. Please buy Sancho though, whilst our defence is poor the lack of RW has hurt us so much going forward for years. I still can’t work out how 3 managers hasn’t worked that one out.

Think we inflated the market. Isnt pogba still the record highest transfer fee incoming in England and Lukaku joint second with Liverpool Van Dijk?

 

[Bojan11]

I don’t accept that. Why is this season I write off then? I keep being told Rashford, Lingard, Mata, Martial etc...are excellent players...many posters have claimed we have the 2nd or 3rd best squad in the league

Saying “this season is a write-off” is a kop out. We are still in the CL, we are still in the FA Cup, we are one good run away from being back in contention for 4th. If our players are good but they were treated unfairly and used incorrectly by that mean old man Jose then why are you giving them a 20+ game free pass?

Am I bitter at Jose being sacked? Well, I don’t know Jose, I don’t particularly care for Jose but I suppose what does really p**s me off is that the players seem to have been given a free pass again.

This lazy bunch of mediocre wasters have hidden behind three managers now and this season alone Smalling, Herrera, Martial and Shaw have been given extensions. I want to see the players critiqued in the same way our managers are critiqued. It’s bizarre the way we’ll give the actual players who play the actual football a million excuses but our managers get slaughtered

Do you honestly believe we’d get 4th?

Chelsea are the closest team. We expecting them to lose 3 games and 2 draws. As well as our shitty goal difference. Whilst in the process hoping that Arsenal drop points. So we relying on two teams to have shocking seasons and us to go on a big winning streak which isn’t happening.

 

[Adisa]

Jason Burt of the Daily Telegraph gives his thoughts on Mourinho's sacking. He makes some very good points and exposes some of the lies by certain pro Mourinho Journos on the goings on at the club.

Glad I watched that and I think the Caf needs to watch it, especially the Mourinho apologists. Sets some records straight.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Think we inflated the market. Isnt pogba still the record highest transfer fee incoming in England and Lukaku joint second with Liverpool Van Dijk?

You spent over £50m on goalkeepers and defenders when most were spending less than £30m.

When City need a new striker or midfielders we will see how much you spend. If your club is happy to pay nearly £70m for a sub winger and over £60m for your last CB purchase I dread to think what you will pay for players in positions that demand a higher price.

 

[Alex99]

Do you honestly believe we’d get 4th?

Chelsea are the closest team. We expecting them to lose 3 games and 2 draws. As well as our shitty goal difference. Whilst in the process hoping that Arsenal drop points. So we relying on two teams to have shocking seasons and us to go on a big winning streak which isn’t happening.

It's not impossible that we get 4th.

At this stage last season the top 4 as City, United, Chelsea, Spurs.

In the remaining games, City drew 3 and lost 2, United drew 4 and lost 4, Chelsea drew 5 and lost 6, and Spurs drew 4 and lost 3. The top 4 ended up being City, United, Spurs, Liverpool.

United need a very good second half of the season, and some luck with other teams dropping points, but it has happened before. The only thing United need to focus on is improving their results. If they still miss out then so be it, but with City, Liverpool and Spurs all in the knockout rounds of the CL, and Chelsea and Arsenal in the knockout rounds of the EL, anything could happen between now and the end of the season.

 

[Bojan11]

It's not impossible that we get 4th.

At this stage last season the top 4 as City, United, Chelsea, Spurs.

In the remaining games, City drew 3 and lost 2, United drew 4 and lost 4, Chelsea drew 5 and lost 6, and Spurs drew 4 and lost 3. The top 4 ended up being City, United, Spurs, Liverpool.

United need a very good second half of the season, and some luck with other teams dropping points, but it has happened before. The only thing United need to focus on is improving their results. If they still miss out then so be it, but with City, Liverpool and Spurs all in the knockout rounds of the CL, and Chelsea and Arsenal in the knockout rounds of the EL, anything could happen between now and the end of the season.

That was Chelsea under Conte. They looked better this season. No way are they losing 6 more games. The only change from this stage last season was Liverpool. Three factors in that Chelsea were disastrous, Van Dijk signing and Salah going on a crazy goal scoring spree.

Spurs are 13 more points ahead of us. People need to be realistic in their ambitions. We need to do something that this squad has never looked like doing which is win 16/17 out of 21 games. That isn’t happening. We will drop points also.

 

[Alex99]

That was Chelsea under Conte. They looked better this season. No way are they losing 6 more games. The only change from this stage last season was Liverpool. Three factors in that Chelsea were disastrous, Van Dijk signing and Salah going on a crazy goal scoring spree.

Spurs are 13 more points ahead of us. People need to be realistic in their ambitions. We need to do something that this squad has never looked like doing which is win 16/17 out of 21 games. That isn’t happening. We will drop points also.

I agree that we need to be realistic, but there's nothing wrong with a bit of hope. It's highly unlikely we get top 4, because as you've pointed out, we're heavily reliant on two other teams dropping off, but it's not impossible. I'd much rather be looking ahead than behind.

I don't expect top 4 at all. I think we'll finish 6th.

As I said, our aims should be to improve the football, and subsequently improve the results. We do that, and see where it takes us.

 

[Tincanalley]

No, I laughing at your constant defense of a manager who obviously failed at his job

Bye now ‘football’ supporter

 

[Tincanalley]

Not sure if anyone posted this.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/club/man...of-how-jose-mourinho-unravelled-at-man-united

Woodward spin in overdrive. I would have more respect for serious commentators who at least acknowledge issues at the club.

 

[Cloud7]

Woodward spin in overdrive. I would have more respect for serious commentators who at least acknowledge issues at the club.

You mean people that say things that fit your personal bias?

 

[Tincanalley]

Not sure if this is posted, doesn't look good at all

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Nasty. The basis of JM’s mistrust of Giggs ... spin. EW ... eeeww ... has been a busy boy. Basically Ed thought he’d buy a set of big names and call the shots. Caretaker manager is just up his street, he can strut around now and develop some drama before the new appointment. Woodward please F off now and leave the club alone.

 

[crossy1686]

Just heard that the club made £170m by sacking Mourinho...

 

[Tincanalley]

You mean people that say things that fit your personal bias?

everything rosy at board level, then? Is that what you believe, @Cloud7?

 

[Cloud7]

everything rosy at board level, then? Is that what you believe, @Cloud7?

Of course not. We have a lack of football know how at the club, and we need someone in to assist the manager in that. I fully agree on that count. The board needs to be more proactive and decisive in what they do.

Do I also believe that the vast majority of our problems since Sir Alex retired have been due to bad managerial choices? I absolutely do. No matter how much Mourinho tries to spin things to make it out like the board was the primary cause of the problems, he was failing on pretty much every count of what a manager should be doing.

 

[Foxbatt]

There are a few articles and interviews about the reason for the sacking. The main reasons are that he got all the scouts to do conference calls with him and Ed and then instead of discussing players they have agreed to buy, he kept throwing new names that no one has looked at.
Also he tried to pass off the players he bought as players bought by the club without his knowledge. He was poison and when things did not work out he had to go.
It is not all at how bad things were on the pitch but combined with how bad things were off the pitch too. The club wanted to get a DOF and Jose was adamant that he did not want it. He already had 5 CBs and he bought 2 CBs and yet he wanted another one. The atmosphere was terrible and the club had to clear the air so the manager goes.

 

[Tincanalley]

Of course not. We have a lack of football know how at the club, and we need someone in to assist the manager in that. I fully agree on that count. The board needs to be more proactive and decisive in what they do.

Do I also believe that the vast majority of our problems since Sir Alex retired have been due to bad managerial choices? I absolutely do. No matter how much Mourinho tries to spin things to make it out like the board was the primary cause of the problems, he was failing on pretty much every count of what a manager should be doing.

Ok, I’m sure like me you wish the club well. Thing is, with those structural issues it’s hard to judge the effectiveness of managers, even Moyes. And more important it’s hard to be confident that the next big name in the hot seat won’t face the same problems. Interm thing ain’t great; I’ll always have hope and I won’t bore you by banging on with my preferred solution

 

[royboy16]

Not sure if anyone posted this.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/club/man...of-how-jose-mourinho-unravelled-at-man-united

Read that,good read.

 

[Cloud7]

Ok, I’m sure like me you wish the club well. Thing is, with those structural issues it’s hard to judge the effectiveness of managers, even Moyes. And more important it’s hard to be confident that the next big name in the hot seat won’t face the same problems. Interm thing ain’t great; I’ll always have hope and I won’t bore you by banging on with my preferred solution

I disagree as I truly do not believe that structural issues should affect coaching, tactics, player motivation, style of football and generally anything that a manager should be responsible for. The only thing that it should affect is transfers, and our managers have certainly not wanted for that.

At the end of the day, we all want what’s best for the club, and we all hope that the club will get the next appointment right.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

I disagree as I truly do not believe that structural issues should affect coaching, tactics, player motivation, style of football and generally anything that a manager should be responsible for. The only thing that it should affect is transfers, and our managers have certainly not wanted for that.

At the end of the day, we all want what’s best for the club, and we all hope that the club will get the next appointment right.

Correct

 

[MackRobinson]

While everything fell apart this season, there is no doubt the club is run by clowns and we put numerous clowns on the pitch every game.

And you defended him to the very end, throwing everyone under the bus but him. Go back to the old Mourinho thread and read some of the tripe you posted.

 

[MackRobinson]

Bye now ‘football’ supporter

Uhhhhhh no, I think I'll stay random poster from "Ireland"

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Make an account and you can read any two articles a week for free.

Another great article here.

Some at Carrington and Old Trafford admit that they felt a temptation to scream at Mourinho: stop being so miserable, lighten up, appreciate you’re at one of the greatest clubs in the world, being paid £15 million a year, and those amazing, countless match-going fans are still loyal despite the tumescent, tactically palsied football inflicted on them.

 

[Tincanalley]

I disagree as I truly do not believe that structural issues should affect coaching, tactics, player motivation, style of football and generally anything that a manager should be responsible for. The only thing that it should affect is transfers, and our managers have certainly not wanted for that.

At the end of the day, we all want what’s best for the club, and we all hope that the club will get the next appointment right.

I could say so much in reply. I'll try and keep it short. Apologies for lengthy paragraphs.

Structural issues? When I talk about structure, I mean the supports behind any manager. The framework, the scaffold. The various points of interface between club and manager. PR. I mean the faces who look down from the expensive seats (or those who never show up at 'their' club). I mean all the Glazer siblings parachuted onto the board.

Players and manager and ... even fans, respond to the sense that the people in charge have a plan. Any kind of plan. Look at Spurs or Pool or City. They have a - footballing based, as well as corporate based - plan. Any kind of club deserving of respect, have a board and CEO who will work WITH the team, WITH the manager. They have experience, knowledge. Decision-making is in good hands. That is the structure, not just the the scouting setup, a youth set up, a medical setup, etc. etc. They have a knowledgeable CEO, and a passionate wider team, who eat, sleep and dream the club.

What did Solskjaer have to say on this issue? When Malcolm Glazer launched his United takeover, Solskjaer - then a player - expressed his concerns.

Back in 2005, while he was a top player, OGS supported the Shareholders United group in resisting the takeover. Solskjaer said: "I think it is important that the club remains in the right hands. I am a United fan myself and only want what is best for the future." So structure mattered to him. And super-ironically, he will now get to see in close-up the effect of that moment.

Gary Neville keeps saying: "there's a multitude of issues, it's more complex than the manager getting the best out of the players or not being backed. It's a deep problem, it needs resetting, the whole club needs resetting". "You can change the manager, but ... Something's broken". Roy Keane took a similar line, and even 'enemy' commentators like Souness did not disagree.

After Ferguson and Gill left, a lot of footballing knowledge went with them. You could add that Moyes let more expertise slip through his fingers. Neville puts his finger on the structural issue. "What happened was the financial and commercial people ... were put in charge of the football side of things and they are not competent enough to do it. They have to now hand it over to people that are good enough to run the football side of the club." Football people would never have treated LVG as they did (leaking his dismissal as they should have celebrated winning the FA cup). What about that for class? What about that for decision making? Values? A plan? Chaos, more like.

Neville talks about seven years of poor decisions. "It (the failure to back manager) is impacting the players, they look demoralised..."

Ciaran Kelly in the MEN...
"...at United, there has not been a tangible transfer strategy in the last five years other than being opportunistic. It has got to the stage where Woodward, a former investment banker, has the final say over his own manager".

Structural issues affect virtually everything in a club. No manager can operate on his ownsome. Perhaps not so much the details of tactics (though these matters would be agreed in broad strokes in job interviews and consultations, if a comprehensive footballing set-up was in place). They affect coaching, they certainly affect player motivation. And this is the key, the absolute essence, to the prospects of Manchester United FC from here on.

 

[Moriarty]

I'll leave this here because I can't find a Woodward thread.

 

[JK-27]

I cant post the source but here is a pic of him with the hoodie

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...er-united-fans-munich-air-disaster-rummenigge

This article is from the first week of Feb, just a week after they gave Jose a new 3 year contract, so within a week of giving him a new contract the board wanted him out?

 

[Sgt.Major]

Serbian news outlets reporting that Woodward had the players vote whether Mourinho should stay or not and that only Matic and Lukaku voted stay. Not sure about their sources, though, but it doesn't sound stupid.

 

[Moonwalker]

Serbian news outlets reporting that Woodward had the players vote whether Mourinho should stay or not and that only Matic and Lukaku voted stay. Not sure about their sources, though, but it doesn't sound stupid.

Which news outlets?

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Just heard that the club made £170m by sacking Mourinho...

How come?

 

[crossy1686]

How come?

Stock price rose after the sacking.

 

[EwanI Ted]

I could say so much in reply. I'll try and keep it short. Apologies for lengthy paragraphs.

Structural issues? When I talk about structure, I mean the supports behind any manager. The framework, the scaffold. The various points of interface between club and manager. PR. I mean the faces who look down from the expensive seats (or those who never show up at 'their' club). I mean all the Glazer siblings parachuted onto the board.

Players and manager and ... even fans, respond to the sense that the people in charge have a plan. Any kind of plan. Look at Spurs or Pool or City. They have a - footballing based, as well as corporate based - plan. Any kind of club deserving of respect, have a board and CEO who will work WITH the team, WITH the manager. They have experience, knowledge. Decision-making is in good hands. That is the structure, not just the the scouting setup, a youth set up, a medical setup, etc. etc. They have a knowledgeable CEO, and a passionate wider team, who eat, sleep and dream the club.

What did Solskjaer have to say on this issue? When Malcolm Glazer launched his United takeover, Solskjaer - then a player - expressed his concerns.

Back in 2005, while he was a top player, OGS supported the Shareholders United group in resisting the takeover. Solskjaer said: "I think it is important that the club remains in the right hands. I am a United fan myself and only want what is best for the future." So structure mattered to him. And super-ironically, he will now get to see in close-up the effect of that moment.

Gary Neville keeps saying: "there's a multitude of issues, it's more complex than the manager getting the best out of the players or not being backed. It's a deep problem, it needs resetting, the whole club needs resetting". "You can change the manager, but ... Something's broken". Roy Keane took a similar line, and even 'enemy' commentators like Souness did not disagree.

After Ferguson and Gill left, a lot of footballing knowledge went with them. You could add that Moyes let more expertise slip through his fingers. Neville puts his finger on the structural issue. "What happened was the financial and commercial people ... were put in charge of the football side of things and they are not competent enough to do it. They have to now hand it over to people that are good enough to run the football side of the club." Football people would never have treated LVG as they did (leaking his dismissal as they should have celebrated winning the FA cup). What about that for class? What about that for decision making? Values? A plan? Chaos, more like.

Neville talks about seven years of poor decisions. "It (the failure to back manager) is impacting the players, they look demoralised..."

Ciaran Kelly in the MEN...
"...at United, there has not been a tangible transfer strategy in the last five years other than being opportunistic. It has got to the stage where Woodward, a former investment banker, has the final say over his own manager".

Structural issues affect virtually everything in a club. No manager can operate on his ownsome. Perhaps not so much the details of tactics (though these matters would be agreed in broad strokes in job interviews and consultations, if a comprehensive footballing set-up was in place). They affect coaching, they certainly affect player motivation. And this is the key, the absolute essence, to the prospects of Manchester United FC from here on.

Structural matters are important, but I think you're overegging the pudding here. Mourinho worked in a structure where he was given delegated powers for choosing players and coaching staff as he saw fit, with the Board above just working to bring them in. The structural flaw there is giving him too much responsbility, but that's not the same as not supporting him, almost the opposite. It certainly doesnt impact on his core operational domain of day to day coaching where he, and the two before him, had more control than it seems their successors will do.

 

[Tincanalley]

Structural matters are important, but I think you're overegging the pudding here. Mourinho worked in a structure where he was given delegated powers for choosing players and coaching staff as he saw fit, with the Board above just working to bring them in. The structural flaw there is giving him too much responsbility, but that's not the same as not supporting him, almost the opposite. It certainly doesnt impact on his core operational domain of day to day coaching where he, and the two before him, had more control than it seems their successors will do.

You sure about that? From what I heard, he gave in his list and it was shot down, Woody thought he knew better. Did JM choose Pogba?

 

[Sgt.Major]

Which news outlets?

B92, as the most prominent one, but also a few others.

https://www.b92.net/sport/fudbal/vesti.php?yyyy=2018&mm=12&dd=19&nav_id=1483962

 

[Moonwalker]

B92, as the most prominent one, but also a few others.

https://www.b92.net/sport/fudbal/vesti.php?yyyy=2018&mm=12&dd=19&nav_id=1483962

Yeah, those aren't really Serbian sources, they are just quoting Daily Mirror.

 

[#07]

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[IronCroos37]

after 6 years, post fergie we still won 1 fa cup, 1 league cup, 1 europa cup, 2 charity shields still betterr then spurs, pool, arsenal.