If thats true then they are idiots. It only works for so long if you are not winning the title. I think it was the age of the players and the price of them, only to have to replace in another few years time. They were supposedly willing to pay £100 million for Verane.
Mourinho Presser (Spurs Home)
- Thread starter charlenefan
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Well as I said to another poster if they think that they will soon come unstuck. Foreign fans and the like will soon stop supporting if our goal is to finish top 4 every year. My mate works for a company that takes him to the far east. Taiwan, Phillipines, India etc. He said 10 years ago you saw plenty Utd Liverpool Arsenal even Chelsea shirts. Nowadays you see a lot of City shirts as well.
TBF it's been eight years since they took over and up until the past few years it hasn't really seemed like that.
But yes they're all about being perennial championship contenders, or at least capable of being so. That's how they run their baseball franchise. Ruthless and intelligent.
The Glazers' American football team, on the other hand, is usually last place in the division (conference) for almost 15 years running. And often not just last place but really really really bad.
Thats why I think we're no good with Ed and the Glazers in the long run.
Either they'll realize brand will be damaged if we wont be at the top or they'll piss of from our club.
If indeed they were willing to give 100 mil for Varane that's stupid too.
If they want to buy young players and are looking in advance, which I dont think they are, better to invest then in young potentials then splurge 100 million on Varane.
I disagree. Bailly and Lindelof are young players they invested in and they have a lot to learn which is costing points. If we miss out on the CL because of their learning mistakes mistakes of those two it will cost us more than the 100mil Varane would cost us.
Loads of people still think Manchester United should develop young talents to world class players but only Fergie could do that when the league was weaker and our team was much much better. Nowadays if a Manchester United manager doesnt win he is going to get sacked... the chances to develop youth are very slim. Developing those young players is the job of clubs like Dortmund and Monaco now.
Ronaldo and Rooney were great players and bought young but lately all the young potentials failed. Memphis, Bailly, Lindelof, Martial, Jones and other cheaper talents all failed to live up to expectation.
If we have a team like Manchester City there would maybe be a spot to develop one or maybe two players but at the moment Manchester United needs to buy world class and ready to play players.
I don't buy this at all. It is flawed logic on the part of the Board. If by the end of last season they knew Jose was shite, why not fire him, get a new manager and invest in the squad? Surely, that was the ideal time to do so. Why retain him and consequently encourage a toxic atmosphere in the club while standing the risk of dropping further behind City? People can try and flak Jose all they want, but this is on the Board.
If social media was about back in the day I wonder if people would still demand some sort of fecking entertainment at every mundane predictable presser.
People love this reality tv circuits and get moody when they are not as they want them to be. Let's start rating each of them. Perhaps we can have a press conference performance score like we do with the players here on the caff...
People love this reality tv circuits and get moody when they are not as they want them to be. Let's start rating each of them. Perhaps we can have a press conference performance score like we do with the players here on the caff...
Agree.. That said I find it sad that our club is in a state where our managers have to be idiots to the press due to terrible performances all the time.
Jose is taking the pressure off the players before a big game - he's being doing this fir years. Stop buying into the media agenda
Yeah but Jose wanted Toby and Ed overruled him. I agree about WC players. What I meant is it's not logical Ed supposedly wants to think in the long run and doesn't want to give Jose money for his army of 29 year olds (how it's put wrongly) and on the other hand is like - 100 million for Varane or nothing. It sounds stupid.
As for young potentials currently at the club only Jones failed definitely. Memphis is out of the club so I don't care and there's still time for Bailly, Lindelof and Martial.
For most of the time United were developing youth, we had a load world class senior players. When we had Scholes and Carrick, we could carry Cleverly, Ronaldo and Rooney could afford to develop because we had Giggs and RVN, DDG, Johnny Evans and Rafael had Vidic, Evra, and Rio around them.
We lack that right now. We have DDG, Sanchez, Matic, who are senior players in thier prime and Pogba and Lukaku who are thereabouts too. That's 5 out of 11 at best. I remember reading Fergie's book which suggested most good teams can win if 2 or 3 players aren't at thier best. More often than not we only have 2 or 3 players at thier best.
Bailly and Lindelof would benefit from the experience of players like Sandro and Alderweireld. They'd play better because of experienced leaders at the back.
Then have it for free
If I were to project my own sentiments onto the board, I'd suspect Jose is on probation for this season. He did get us 2nd, our highest league finish post-SAF and might well have won the league if Pep didn't decide to rock up at City. For that alone he doesn't deserve the sack. But he's clearly not getting enough out of the squad and is dividing the fanbase with some very horrid football. On that front he is failing badly, and so personally I'd want him to prove he can make better use of his resources before giving him even more. This is why I am completely fine with the decision not to splurge this summer.
Of course the board could just be faffing about, in which case you would be right.
Then have it for free
If I were to project my own sentiments onto the board, I'd suspect Jose is on probation for this season. He did get us 2nd, our highest league finish post-SAF and might well have won the league if Pep didn't decide to rock up at City. For that alone he doesn't deserve the sack. But he's clearly not getting enough out of the squad and is dividing the fanbase with some very horrid football. On that front he is failing badly, and so personally I'd want him to prove he can make better use of his resources before giving him even more. This is why I am completely fine with the decision not to splurge this summer.
Of course the board could just be faffing about, in which case you would be right.
What makes you think that??
Is it because they gave Jose a contract extension in January to keep him here until 2020? Presumably making it much more expensive to sack him?
Not even for free mate.Then have it for free
If I were to project my own sentiments onto the board, I'd suspect Jose is on probation for this season. He did get us 2nd, our highest league finish post-SAF and might well have won the league if Pep didn't decide to rock up at City. For that alone he doesn't deserve the sack. But he's clearly not getting enough out of the squad and is dividing the fanbase with some very horrid football. On that front he is failing badly, and so personally I'd want him to prove he can make better use of his resources before giving him even more. This is why I am completely fine with the decision not to splurge this summer.
Of course the board could just be faffing about, in which case you would be right.
If your theory is correct, it is way too much of a risk on the part of the Board. We were already making progress. The spine of the team was improving. The league table standing was improving. Why suddenly stop and not just stop, risk damaging the squad because you want the manager to prove himself? A manager you just gave a new contract? We did not sell disgruntled players that wanted to leave.; we did not appease them to stay perhaps with new contracts and we neither bought the players the manager wanted nor alternatives. The manager is unhappy, players that wanted to leave are unhappy, the squad still has unplugged holes and we stand the risk of missing out on a top four position etc. I hope we don't have mega problems on our hands. It was a simple issue: get a DoF and back the manager or fire him and if course invest more in the squad.
And yet isn't it objectively weird that that's the situation? We are playing only the 3rd game of the new season after we just finished runners up.
All he did was remind them of the natural order of things, they need him, he does not need them. Winning or losing games will decide his fate, and the media can only win you points in the alternative leagues. Doing this once can be a story in itself, do it regularly and they'll start to lose it.
Funny you say that, they’ve all recently come out in support of Mourinho. Phil Neville even said is was disgusting the way he was being treated.
Under normal circumstances, yeah, it does seem a little harsh. But given the events of the summer - Woody's refusal to sanction the sales of certain players that Jose deemed surplus to requirements and refusing to purchase the players he wanted to sign, plus the issues with Martial and Pogba (both of which remain unresolved) and Fellaini (resolved via a new contract) all of which were leaked to the press I might add. The poor performances in pre-season which most of us put down to a lack of fitness until we offered a similarly poor showing against Leicester, only to perform a great deal worse against Brighton (the worst performance I have ever seen from a United team) - is it really that hard to believe his job is on the line? Jose's latest presser only served to confirm the suspicion, he looked utterly dejected throughout, borderline clinically depressed even. He looked like a broken man expecting the worst.
Nothing would please me more than to see Jose turn it around and prove us wrong. At the end of the day, I am a United fan and I will to continue support Jose and the team week in week out regardless of how they perform in their respective roles. But you can't fight the inevitable, should the lads offer up another similarly lethargic, disjointed and ultimately shocking performance against Spurs on Monday night, it could spell the end of his reign. Would anyone really be that concerned if he were sacked?
I agree with this.
One question to answer: why would we not fire Jose and bring in a new manager?
Because the new manager would want to spend money, which the owners did not want. Money saving is what they want and they have a top class manager (some may disagree here), who can get top 4, easily, with the current squad and spending little money. Basically, like Wenger used to do, for Arsenal.
Think it from the owner's perspective.
They have a football team who they don't support. They don't care for soccer. They don't care if we play ultra defensive or attacking. What they do care about is profit/sales/income. These are the things that they do want improved.
The other thing is that market capitalization. At present, MUFC is valued at a near all-time high of over US$3Billion!!!
Given all of the above, would it not make sense to reduce expenditure (transfer spend), increase income (sponsorship income)? These are business basics.
It's obvious to me what the owners are attempting to do, here.
Yea I liked it too. He knows well whatever he says will be taken out of context so give them nothing.He should spend the rest of the season fecking with them like that. Answer questions with questions, turn up when he feels like it, answer in different languages. Why should he give them anything at this point?
You can tell from the types of questions ghe journos ask that they know feck all about football. Theyd be better off writing for womens weekly and covering the latest Meagan Markle controversy. Useless shower of wankers.
But I like Mourinhos approach, give them nothing.
"When the seagull follows the trawler it is because he thinks sardines will be thrown into the sea"
I see many of us saying "press is fckin with our team, they got what they deserved, he is right". I hope all of us that think this way give the tabloidish click-bait news what they deserve.
Fact is , our attacking ability is non-existent. We don't need press to remind all this to us.
Our spaniards play their small passes, englishmen try to go forward as quickly as possible, Sanchez is attacking with ball to feet, Pogba tries to find somebody behind the defensive line or, given the smallest chance, shoots the ball... Generally everyone is doing what he thinks is best - there are so many voices in this team but no clear plan. In the end, they tend to forget their own style of play and it looks ugly.
The main question to Mourinho should be : where are your football, your tactics and your style?
Fact is , our attacking ability is non-existent. We don't need press to remind all this to us.
Our spaniards play their small passes, englishmen try to go forward as quickly as possible, Sanchez is attacking with ball to feet, Pogba tries to find somebody behind the defensive line or, given the smallest chance, shoots the ball... Generally everyone is doing what he thinks is best - there are so many voices in this team but no clear plan. In the end, they tend to forget their own style of play and it looks ugly.
The main question to Mourinho should be : where are your football, your tactics and your style?
Just end his misery already.
On point.
It's pretty obvious really when you think about it.
I do not believe that getting a top 4 spot every year is the extent of our owners' ambition, not even for a second. I think Woody has held back the funds because he intends to hand the new manager and/or DoF a sizeable war chest to spend at their convenience.
Maybe he intends to find a manager who would not ask for a war chest so that he could maximize the profits for the club.
Watching that pre match interview was fecking painful! A bunch of cowboy journalists probing and provocating. These so called journalists hit an all time low here. Jose did well to keep his calm. Although maybe not a good sign. He looked like a man under pressure and on the ropes.
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It is highly unlikely that Glazers would opt to change their business model given the evidence at hand. The Glazers have invested a substantial portion of the clubs profits back into the transfer kitty every single year and Woody has been happy to use that kitty seemingly without consequence - regardless of who was managing the club at the time. United are known as serial spenders in the transfer market, the only time that was not the case was the summer before Fergie's retirement - the one where RVP was the only acquisition and everyone predicted doom and gloom for the following season, only for United to win the league by a sizeable distance - and the summer just gone. Although we did sign Fred, Dallot and Grant, we just didn't spend as much as the fans anticipated.
Based on the evidence provided, I feel it is a fairly safe assumption that the board are genuinely considering a new managerial appointment and are holding back the funds until one has been found.
Well pointing out stories which might be true doesn't mean they didn't report stories which weren't or their attitude towards the coach and club which finished second was nothing but very poor.
Media shat on Jose, so he is playing his games.
I think so too.
It also concede with so many players moving towards the end of their contract and the rumours of a DOF coming soon. Many players will either be sold or they will leave on a free. There will be plenty of money to splash around but there will be plenty of vacancies to fill. I think the club will want to spend the money wisely on young players not 29 year olds for 70m a pop
Don't agree as the market indicates that none of the big teams spent big aside from Liverpool who's hands (excuse the pun) where forced into it because of the goalkeeping situation. Take that 65m out of it, doesn't look that significant either. Both Barca and Real have lost iconic players which neither have replaced as yet in this transfer market. The task for most teams this window was more around keeping their big players and therefore it was impossible to buy. Also there's now a 'big team financially' culture where rich owners of smaller clubs like Leicester are saying we won't be bullied into selling either. Players are realising that whilst enjoying the securities of long contracts, it means they are stuck to the point where clubs would sooner they go for free than at all. There's no holding back the money in my opinion, forget the stupid paper talk or FM computer approach to transfers, who was realistically available (key word) that would improve the team....?
I never thought i'd say this about the Glazers, BUT I understand if they have tightened the purse strings now, they have spent god knows how many hundreds of millions since SAF left and we are still shit. Its like we are the only team that spends hundreds of millions yet never gets any better.
You're suggesting that Woody did pursue Jose's targets but was unsuccessful in signing them due to the selling club refusing to do business? That doesn't really hold water you consider the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, West Ham, Everton, Leicester and Fulham (among a great many other clubs across the sea) seemed to have no issue acquiring their targets and outspent us in the process.
You can't really claim they've fixed their deficiencies after two games. There's still a long way to go before anyone can conclusively state that/ And as for their owners being genuinely interested in winning the league - they haven't finished about 4th in the last 4 seasons and only seem to invest after they sell their best players.
And yeah our owners definitely exploit the brand but that brand will not be sustainable unless we start winning the league and not just competing in Europe. The owners are well aware. The way I see it, you don't spend 90mil on Pogba, 75mil on Lukaku and sign Sanchez on astronomical wages if you just want Champion's League.
Yes but the players those clubs brought in weren’t a consideration for United. Out of all the players that arrived at those teams mentioned how many would improve United? Maybe Jorginho, but he was following Sarri and we had no chance. We were after a higher class of player rather than backups. I do believe united and Woodward did pursue Jose’s targets but ultimately we didn’t get them as the selling club knew we were desperate and bumped the price right up. Also the selling club refusing to do business at the price we were offering. This is the same with Martial who was wanted by a couple of premier league teams but we refused to do business with them, we also turned down Barca’s offer for Pogba. The type of players needed at the big clubs are difficult to get now. Look at real and Barca for example, they haven’t signed anyone so far and have lost big players this summer.
We have lost 1 of 2 games clearly he is going to be fired
I am well aware that I'm just speculating but I will explain my thoughts since you asked. I think the contract extension was offered during a time when the team was still doing relatively well. Despite falling behind in the title race, we had several big wins in the first half of the season, and were still going strong in the CL. If I recall correctly, Castles had published talk about Jose being unhappy at Utd and about PSG being interested in his services, which wasn't quelled by some comments that Jose himself made in the press. Put all these together, and I imagine the board believed Jose could still take us forward, and wanted to make a show of faith in him by giving him a new contract. They also got him Alexis Sanchez, known before he came to Utd as one of the best players in the league.
Then the 2nd half of the season happened. Sanchez was used as a LW and turned to shit, Martial was dropped and turned to shit, Rashford played less and turned to shit, Pogba turned to shit, the football in general turned to shit. We went out of the CL in a humiliating display against Sevilla, which ended with some frankly inexcusable comments from the manager about our football heritage and player quality. Persistent rumours of unrest with Martial and Pogba started. Lukaku got injured and the goals, which were already running low, completely dried up. We lost the FA Cup final to a struggling Chelsea side whose own manager was openly at odds with the club and who failed to finish in the top 4. There were still some major positives, e.g. the grit and quality that we showed showed in beating all of the other Top 6, and we managed to secure 2nd place. But I would say that the 2nd half of the season is when some really big question marks over the manager started to creep in, and it's not impossible that the board's faith in him was shaken as a result.
People really need to watch the MUTV interview before commenting on his national one. You can see the complete difference in attitude, and it becomes clear that he isn't fed up with the job, just fed up with the media.
For the bolded bit, I can only think of Martial and Pogba. If you believe the press, the board rates Martial highly and fears another de Bruyne situation if he is sold. They offered him a new contract but he refused it, so while you may question their judgement of Martial's potential, you can't accuse the board of not appeasing him with a new contract. As for Pogba, he's under contract with us till 2021 I believe.Not even for free mate.
If your theory is correct, it is way too much of a risk on the part of the Board. We were already making progress. The spine of the team was improving. The league table standing was improving. Why suddenly stop and not just stop, risk damaging the squad because you want the manager to prove himself? A manager you just gave a new contract? We did not sell disgruntled players that wanted to leave.; we did not appease them to stay perhaps with new contracts and we neither bought the players the manager wanted nor alternatives. The manager is unhappy, players that wanted to leave are unhappy, the squad still has unplugged holes and we stand the risk of missing out on a top four position etc. I hope we don't have mega problems on our hands. It was a simple issue: get a DoF and back the manager or fire him and if course invest more in the squad.
I agree on the DOF part. Time will tell if the board is serious about getting one or is just making noises to deflect attention from the issue.
I don't agree with this "back him or sack him" argument. There's room for more nuance imo. At this point, I would compare Jose to an employee who has a superb track record of success in other companies, has achieved some good results in his current company, but who has started to show some weaknesses that may potentially damage the company if not kept under control. As the company's board / CEO, should one: (a) sack him immediately despite the good things he brings; or (b) try to manage his weaknesses but keep him on board for his other contributions, at least until a clear improvement on him comes along?
I would say that's about as good a sumary as we can get right now. Good post!
Add to that the pre season build up and the way we've started the campaign, then it's pretty much spot on imo.
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