Actually this isn't correct. You can lose games to teams above you, but then overtake them to win the league. You may be below them initially because of drawing too many times.
Mourinho : "Transfer spend is not enough"
- Thread starter Maradona10
- Start date
Every single statement you’ve made is your opinion, not fact. When did anyone say Jose hasn’t achieved anything? He’s one of the greatest managers the game has seen, regardless of what happens in his time here. This thread is about Jose complaining that £300m is not enough money to compete, which is laughable - that’s fact, not opinion. We’ve spent more than the likes of Real and Juve over the last 3/4 years.
“Full of world class players” - just your opinion again, go back and look at the City team Pep inherited. Really only Aguero and Silva could be classed as that, and Silva was on the decline and Pep doesn’t even like Kun. If it was full of world class players, why has Pep got rid of most of them?
We have officially skipped into Mourinho's third season civil war episode 
First he started criticizing the fans for lack of atmosphere at OT
Second he went after the players calling them childish/immature
Today he went after the board and Woody for not spending ''enough''
The sooner we cut this dinosaur the better
First he started criticizing the fans for lack of atmosphere at OT
Second he went after the players calling them childish/immature
Today he went after the board and Woody for not spending ''enough''
The sooner we cut this dinosaur the better
IMO the poor spending by Fergie in the post Ronaldo years is where the issues began. Only DDG turned into a long term top player under him. Between then and JM's start, probably only Martial has shown more than just being a good squad player. On that, I think we were quite clearly a #4-#6 type of squad and our finishes reflected that.
Now, IMO, we're far better off now but nobody cares much for progress when it looks like City have simply added Pep and presto! Mourinho hasn't been blameless - he's certainly been overly cautious too oftenbut- but this idea that's he's a complete failure is wrong.
Moyes, LVG, and JM have now all made the same point that there's more to fix at the club than just buying players can do. It certainly feels like there's something to that and it's going to take time. Finishing as high as possible (at least top 3) and doing well in the CL still remain the priorities. If we want to get to get on City's level immediately, we have to spend. If not, then I think it's understandable that we are in the same boat as the rest of the league's top teams.
Now, IMO, we're far better off now but nobody cares much for progress when it looks like City have simply added Pep and presto! Mourinho hasn't been blameless - he's certainly been overly cautious too oftenbut- but this idea that's he's a complete failure is wrong.
Moyes, LVG, and JM have now all made the same point that there's more to fix at the club than just buying players can do. It certainly feels like there's something to that and it's going to take time. Finishing as high as possible (at least top 3) and doing well in the CL still remain the priorities. If we want to get to get on City's level immediately, we have to spend. If not, then I think it's understandable that we are in the same boat as the rest of the league's top teams.
And that's why I'm fine with Mourinho, he doesn't have an history of purchasing bad players by buckets unlike LVG. He might not always be able to exploit them fully but most of his purchases are generally sound players.
Perisic would not have made us as good MCFC. However, he would've provided us with quality crosses for Lukaku to head balls into the net. I think we'd win against LCFC and Burnley, with Perisic in our team. He is a hardworking winger, which we are crying out for.
MCFC, with their record breaking run, are an outlier and we can't realistically expect our team to compete with. Next season MCFC won't be as strong and we have to be ready to capitalise.
What we can't afford to do, is allow ourselves to get left behind in the transfer market.
Who reckons the Glazers will back Jose in the next two windows? Will be very telling. Mind you, he might not be around for the second one the way it's going. You can tell we clearly need a backup to Lukaku. Two new full backs, a right winger and possibly a centre back. Some people might not think we are a bit of a shambles, but if you look at the bigger picture since Ferguson left, we certainly are.
Pep inherited a far better team than Mourinho did.
The job is so much easier if you players like KDB to build your team upon.
The unfortunate thing is that it really is not easy to find those type of players. Mourinho managed to bring Pogba and Paul has improved us alot compaired to where we were under LVG but we simply need more. Pep's team last year it also didn't work without the good fullbacks, we are still counting on Valencia and Young but we really need to invest in better and new and it has been long overdue.
This.
I just don't know anymore to be honest, 5 years and 3 managers and we still feel a mile off, I am guessing Jose is hoping to be financially backed in January so he can get an early build towards next season
The money he spent was enough, but spending half the amount of it on shite like Lukaku, Mkhi, and Lindelof (he's improved at least) is poor management of that money. Spent years calling Wenger a failure but now is complaining that 350m over 2 years is not enough? Complaining about money after nearly losing to Burnley at home, he's got some balls...
Yeah, because Conte was so wrong for wanting more players and being discontent with the board for large parts of the window. The fact is the squad was not good enough when Jose arrived so he had to spend. Catching up to City will mean more spending. If you disagree with this then I don't know what to tell you.
By the sound of things we have 2 groups on here the ones that are losing faith in Mourinho and his excuses for not being able to compete and the other group which fully support Mourinho still believing he is the best manager in the world, finding every excuse in the book to blame the situation we are in on everything and everyone (just like he does).
The only question I have is, normally when a new manger comes in you see changes and after a while the team play a style of football inserted by the manager. City under Pep has a distinctive style, Liverpool too has a style and game plan, so do Tottenham, Arsenal etc
Mourinho has had this team for 18 months, what is our style or game plan? Besides hoofing the ball forward (for which LvG got crucified as a plan B with Fellaini) and dropping back to defend what is our style of play?
The only question I have is, normally when a new manger comes in you see changes and after a while the team play a style of football inserted by the manager. City under Pep has a distinctive style, Liverpool too has a style and game plan, so do Tottenham, Arsenal etc
Mourinho has had this team for 18 months, what is our style or game plan? Besides hoofing the ball forward (for which LvG got crucified as a plan B with Fellaini) and dropping back to defend what is our style of play?
How many times has that happened?
Differentiate between what's been spent, and what's been needed. There is a significant discrepancy. Context is your friend.
This is complete nonsense. The job and team Guardiola created at Barca was unreal. He shipped out all the deadwood and promoted youth. He shipped out players like Ronaldinho ffs. His Barcelona team was the greatest ever and nobody can deny that. Mourinho and Guardiola are not really comparable due to their footballing philosophy. Both great managers in their own right though.
Terrific post.
What have we bought under Mourinho that wasn't needed?
What difference does it make that we've spent more than Madrid and Juve in the past few years? 3 years ago, Madrid and Juve were already stacked with the best players in the world, so haven't needed to spend much to maintain their level. Look at the nick of our squad a few years back. Not even good enough to be in the CL, let alone be challenging to win it.
The fact is that what we've spent under Mourinho has been enough to get us back playing CL football and competing near the top of the league. Unfortunately City have now set a ludicrous and unseen before benchmark of almost never dropping points at all, which is a whole different challenge to overcome. Far more investment is going to be needed to get close to reaching that sort of unique level.
I just don’t buy this. The board has given him everything he asked for aside from Perisic.
The more pertantent question for Jose would be what formation and style of play is he buying players for? Because at the minute, it seems like players are being shoehorned into a formation that doesn’t suit them.
The more pertantent question for Jose would be what formation and style of play is he buying players for? Because at the minute, it seems like players are being shoehorned into a formation that doesn’t suit them.
My factual statement was Peps won feck all. The rest is opinion as that's what forums are full of. If Jose wants to complain why shouldn't he? He's the manager. I think you'll find laughable or not, it's still not fact. Hmmm not sure quoting what was spent by teams during a period when he wasn't here is that helpfully.
You have a different memory to mine as it was pretty much accepted at the time that city had more than two world class players at that time, and I think Kompany for one would have argued with that. I think Tevez and Toure too.
De Bruyne was highly touted and was purchased for 65 million. Sterling had a great year at Liverpool and challenged for the title. Was signed for 50 million. Aguero does play as much as Jesus does so I don't get your point there. Fact is the City team was better than ours already. The point that we could have purchased Ox is laughable. Yeah we could have, he's shite though and is nothing on Pogba. We sign players like Ox we will just be where Liverpool are. Rooney is still shit besides his goals. You are making so many poor points.
You can't compare the two squads just by comparing three of their attacking players with any three of ours. There's obviously more to it than that. Not that I want to go into it really as I think it's been done but IF you're doing a comparison do it right.
I'd say the telling part of today's complaint is it's timing. He was pretty happy in the summer. Said he wanted four, ended up with three but that's ok. Now we're facing the biggest ever pre January gap between first and second the moaning begins.
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That has been the main issue with the team.
Because we don't seem a settled eleven, we do not have a specific style of play other than hoof to the front man, pass to the wings and put a decent cross in for a goal.
We have no urgency in our play unless we go a couple of goals down.
If we score first, we sit back and try to hit the opposition on the counter which is very very slow.
He's had two summer windows to assess the squad and buy what is needed though. In his first season, he said he wanted four and he got four. Everyone agreed back then that it is the wise thing to do and not immediately buy 7-8 players to destabilize the squad. Last summer he said he wanted another four: we got three with ONE player he wanted missing. Of those three our attacking personel's only change was Lukaku replacing Ibra, a like for like change with the former in danger of not reaching the goals record of last season's much bemoaned 'chance-missing machine' Ibra. Now Perisic is doing very well for Inter, but we have seen players do well for other teams only to fail when thrown into ours so in no circumstances is he a sure thing. Over two summer windows he himself chose to add 8 and got 7: 7 players in and we are still complaining about seeing no semblance of a plan in our football??
Seeing as we are now all agreeing how LVG and co left us with absolute dross and wondering why our attack is so poor, it doesn't look like Jose planned to change our attack by that much either, so surely some blame for fielding this personel has to go to the manager?
I mean I'm sure he is aware we cannot go out and sign 9 players in one window costing 500 million. He is aware it will take time to rebuild the squad. We are second and have a good points total. How was he to know City would win every game bar one by the new year.
I don't know ... I would like to support Jose until his very last day. But lately he's been running his mouth a bit, criticising players in public, , the "PSG interview", the "childish" comments, now this... I think they will ultimately add up and may lead to an acrimonious exit similar to what he had at Chelsea twice and Real Madrid.
I don't understand this comment now - if anything I think the owners have been very supportive and they've bought most, if not all, of what Jose wanted. The way the manager speaks it's like Perisic would have turned us to world beaters and we would lead the league with him in the team, though we may be in a slightly improved position.
Problem is: City (yes, unfortunately they need mentioning here) spent £144 million on KDB, Sane, Silva and Jesus. We spent more than that on just Pogba and Lukaku. Also, which players have really improved since Jose has been here? Maybe Rojo? Jones could be a shout but he was always a very good player barring the injuries. Across the city Fabian freakin Delph is playing as if he's Philipp Lahm and Otamendi as if he's Maldini.
I like Jose to stay on but he's starting to alienate me, game by game, interview after interview.
I don't understand this comment now - if anything I think the owners have been very supportive and they've bought most, if not all, of what Jose wanted. The way the manager speaks it's like Perisic would have turned us to world beaters and we would lead the league with him in the team, though we may be in a slightly improved position.
Problem is: City (yes, unfortunately they need mentioning here) spent £144 million on KDB, Sane, Silva and Jesus. We spent more than that on just Pogba and Lukaku. Also, which players have really improved since Jose has been here? Maybe Rojo? Jones could be a shout but he was always a very good player barring the injuries. Across the city Fabian freakin Delph is playing as if he's Philipp Lahm and Otamendi as if he's Maldini.
I like Jose to stay on but he's starting to alienate me, game by game, interview after interview.
I’m not saying we don’t need more to compete with City but this whole “need more money” excuse wouldn’t have come out his mouth if we’d played better and won, which we are well and truly capable of. Our lack of creativity and set piece lapses have been going on for consecutive games now which points to a failure on the part of management to address it. It’s not just money. We need a football identity and better tactics if we are to catch them. You could spend all the money to put Neymar and Messi into this system where there is zero movement and willingness to play the ball and they’d suffer.
A point that I’ve made time and again. That Barca team wasn’t easy to manage at all, and very few managers would’ve had the balls to get rid of Ronaldinho and replace him with a teenage Messi. I read somewhere that excluding the centre backs, the average height of Pep’s Barca team was 5ft8 or 9. Even Jose’s strongest fans would concede he would never line up with such a small team, meaning that the likes of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta would not line up together in a Jose team.
By the sounds of it we have two posters on here, the ones that take into consideration context and reference what is actually happening, and those that have no understanding of how the game works and expect the unreasonable. You sir, are in the latter.
If you can't see the SIGNIFICANT improvements under Mourinho, what are you doing on a football forum? Where was Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal 'etc', all these teams you ate ejaculating over in comparison to us, and where were they last season in comparison to us last season? Unless you are 'numerically dyslexic', you might want to reconsider your POV.
I find it interesting that people talk so much about City’s “stronger starting point” when people were very open about them being not that good in Vangle’s last season.
Sterling was a joke around here, people were saying De Bruyne wasn’t that good, Silva and Aguero we’re finished etc. I’m not going to go and dig up posts, but that was the overwhelming feeling around here.
Now all of a sudden these same players have gone up several levels and it’s because “city had a better starting point”. With all this talk about transfer spend I feel like people forget that another big facet of being a manager is actual coaching and improving the players at your disposal, not just throwing money at every single position on the field.
Let’s for example look at Jose’s two biggest signings. Pogba was a necessity in my opinion. One of the best in the world and we needed that creative spark in midfield. There was no one within our own ranks who provided what he provided. Next up there’s Lukaku. As has been said by another @JPRouve in this thread, José didn’t need to sign Lukaku. I’m willing to stick my neck out and say had we played either of them as the CF this season, and had an adequate wide player signed instead, they would be performing just as well or even better than Lukaku. There is also the option of a stop gap signing, while waiting for a better player to become available. Instead we signed Lukaku, and he isn’t performing up to standard. Everyone knew what type of player he is. If he needs a specific set up to perform then surely it would make sense to have the set up in place before signing him, rather than getting the player then hoping to sign the proper supporting cast?
There’s no doubt we have improved. For the outlay that has been made, it can be debated just how proportional the improvement has been, but there has been improvement. With that being said, you can’t blame everything on the “lack of money spent by United” (an absolutely ridiculous notion imo) and “the amount of money city spent”.
Sterling was a joke around here, people were saying De Bruyne wasn’t that good, Silva and Aguero we’re finished etc. I’m not going to go and dig up posts, but that was the overwhelming feeling around here.
Now all of a sudden these same players have gone up several levels and it’s because “city had a better starting point”. With all this talk about transfer spend I feel like people forget that another big facet of being a manager is actual coaching and improving the players at your disposal, not just throwing money at every single position on the field.
Let’s for example look at Jose’s two biggest signings. Pogba was a necessity in my opinion. One of the best in the world and we needed that creative spark in midfield. There was no one within our own ranks who provided what he provided. Next up there’s Lukaku. As has been said by another @JPRouve in this thread, José didn’t need to sign Lukaku. I’m willing to stick my neck out and say had we played either of them as the CF this season, and had an adequate wide player signed instead, they would be performing just as well or even better than Lukaku. There is also the option of a stop gap signing, while waiting for a better player to become available. Instead we signed Lukaku, and he isn’t performing up to standard. Everyone knew what type of player he is. If he needs a specific set up to perform then surely it would make sense to have the set up in place before signing him, rather than getting the player then hoping to sign the proper supporting cast?
There’s no doubt we have improved. For the outlay that has been made, it can be debated just how proportional the improvement has been, but there has been improvement. With that being said, you can’t blame everything on the “lack of money spent by United” (an absolutely ridiculous notion imo) and “the amount of money city spent”.
Goodness me. Can you not make a point without bringing other people into it? First Fergie and now Conte.
Back to the point. Jose is the world class manager that came into the club of his dreams with an an apparent 6 months to get himself together, and with all of his PL experience, assessed the players and concluded that he needed 8 players. The only thing missing from from his wish list is the mighty Perisic.
Or was that not what happened? Or what are we talking about here? Yeah man, I don't know what you can tell me.
Oh and btw, this is got nothing to catch up with City seeing as you've brought them into this as well.
Classic Redcafe thread where we got two camps - the ones who say Mourinho is talking out his ass, the ones who say our squad was super shit therefore he’s right.
As always the reality is somewhere in between. Yeah we were further away and thus needed more spending, but we have also spent badly on some players.
As always the reality is somewhere in between. Yeah we were further away and thus needed more spending, but we have also spent badly on some players.
We were playing good football at the start, defending well, attacking well. Things have been hampered by injuries. Even despite all of this we are sitting second. We are still evolving as team and the squad is still being built. We will sign more creativity, and probably some fullbacks which will help our play in terms of counter attacks and ball retention. It looks like he is trying to build a squad capable of also playing in a 352. This season will end and we will improve again next season, both in terms of personnel and play style. The only positive is City cant get much better than this so we know what we are competing with.
Agree with all but the bolded which im not sure of. That's for the next manager to decide. If we get someone that wants to implement an attacking philosophy based on intricate passing, I wouldn't be surprised to see Lukaku relegated to a lesser role or even sold eventually. Those manager types are often ruthless with players like Lukaku
City have set the standard this season and it’s going to force Jose to change. If he doesn’t, we are going to be left behind. Maybe we still need one more window, but IMO he has adequate ability in the squad to be playing much better.
Yep debutants under Pep....
2008/09: Busquets, Thiago, Xavi Torres, Muniesa, Botía and Abraham
2009/10: Fontàs, Dos Santos, Soriano, Gai Assulin and Bartra
2010/11: Oriol Romeu, Sergi Gómez, Miño, Nolito, Montoya and Sergi Roberto
2011/12: Cuenca, Deulofeu, Rafinha, Tello and Riverola
Yep a couple good ones but hardly a revolution. I think you'll find Ronaldinho was on the decline with lots of his off the field antics impacting on his career.
Simple
First of all, I used Conte as an example of managers wanting more players and wanting to spend more. It isn't just Jose. Conte won the league and wanted more.
Second, he signed players and now we are second in the table. No one could see City becoming what they are now. That isn't Jose's fault. We are still building a team. We had 3 years of damage and are only 2 years into recovery. You are naive if you think 8 players and we would just win the league. The man hasn't even signed a fullback yet, while Pep has spent 130 million on them in one season. City were ahead of us to begin with and have continued to add players and spend. It's not mind boggling that they are still ahead of us.
Van Gaal left us in a mess and Jose has fixed a lot of it. This summer should see more players leave and replaced by players good enough to challenge for titles. Van Gaal's signings were good enough for challenging for top 4 and that's it.
5 months is ages? You go move abroad and work for someone new and come back and tell us whether you settled in during that time