Mourinho : "Transfer spend is not enough"

[Summit]

How many times has that happened?

How am I meant to know if it has ever happened? I'm just correcting your post which wasn't factual like you made it out to be.

 

[redNATION]

I find it interesting that people talk so much about City’s “stronger starting point” when people were very open about them being not that good in Vangle’s last season.

Sterling was a joke around here, people were saying De Bruyne wasn’t that good, Silva and Aguero we’re finished etc. I’m not going to go and dig up posts, but that was the overwhelming feeling around here.

Now all of a sudden these same players have gone up several levels and it’s because “city had a better starting point”. With all this talk about transfer spend I feel like people forget that another big facet of being a manager is actual coaching and improving the players at your disposal, not just throwing money at every single position on the field.

Let’s for example look at Jose’s two biggest signings. Pogba was a necessity in my opinion. One of the best in the world and we needed that creative spark in midfield. There was no one within our own ranks who provided what he provided. Next up there’s Lukaku. As has been said by another @JPRouve in this thread, José didn’t need to sign Lukaku. I’m willing to stick my neck out and say had we played either of them as the CF this season, and had an adequate wide player signed instead, they would be performing just as well or even better than Lukaku. There is also the option of a stop gap signing, while waiting for a better player to become available. Instead we signed Lukaku, and he isn’t performing up to standard. Everyone knew what type of player he is. If he needs a specific set up to perform then surely it would make sense to have the set up in place before signing him, rather than getting the player then hoping to sign the proper supporting cast?

There’s no doubt we have improved. For the outlay that has been made, it can be debated just how proportional the improvement has been, but there has been improvement. With that being said, you can’t blame everything on the “lack of money spent by United” (an absolutely ridiculous notion imo) and “the amount of money city spent”.

A really good point about City’s so called ‘head start’ on us. People here are getting confused, their players were not playing like this when Pep took over, but Pep has got them working together. Martial was superior to both sane and sterling, the latter was supposedly behind Rashford. Our keeper and defence was superior, and the likes of Herrera and Shaw were still rated. People here are now just ignoring these factors.

 

[haram]

City have set the standard this season and it’s going to force Jose to change. If he doesn’t, we are going to be left behind. Maybe we still need one more window, but IMO he has adequate ability in the squad to be playing much better.

Yes we could be playing better. Even if we were City would still be ahead. We are getting better and will get better again next year. Would this United team beat last years City's team? Yes IMO. Considering they are ahead of us in terms of their squad I think we are heading in the right direction. We will get better next year and I doubt City will replicate what they are doing now.

 

[Bastian]

What have we bought under Mourinho that wasn't needed?

I'm saying what he has been given to spend and the amount of players he's brought in is not comparable to how much was needed to spend in order to remedy the flaws in the team. Given the current market and the price we are quoted for players, 300m has not been near enough, nor have we managed to get rid of quite a few players.

 

[Litch]

A point that I’ve made time and again. That Barca team wasn’t easy to manage at all, and very few managers would’ve had the balls to get rid of Ronaldinho and replace him with a teenage Messi. I read somewhere that excluding the centre backs, the average height of Pep’s Barca team was 5ft8 or 9. Even Jose’s strongest fans would concede he would never line up with such a small team, meaning that the likes of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta would not line up together in a Jose team.

Replace him with Messi? I love how people rewrite history to make their argument fit. It was Frank Rijkaard who gave him his debut. Messi was on the bench with Iniesta who Frank also called up from Barca B.

 

[Cloud7]

A really good point about City’s so called ‘head start’ on us. People here are getting confused, their players were not playing like this when Pep took over, but Pep has got them working together. Martial was superior to both sane and sterling, the latter was supposedly behind Rashford. Our keeper and defence was superior, and the likes of Herrera and Shaw were still rated. People here are now just ignoring these factors.

Martial was thought of as the best young attacker in the world by many on here after his debut season, and quite rightly so. Now that Sterling has been improved all of a sudden he was the better raw player than Martial? Absolute rubbish. Martial is one of the most naturally talented players I’ve seen in a long time, to say that the city attackers had a higher level of natural ability than him is insulting.

 

[charlenefan]

IMO the poor spending by Fergie in the post Ronaldo years is where the issues began. Only DDG turned into a long term top player under him. Between then and JM's start, probably only Martial has shown more than just being a good squad player. On that, I think we were quite clearly a #4-#6 type of squad and our finishes reflected that.

Spot on and given in that same period City have been prepping for Pep's arrival (with the purchases of the likes of De Bruyne) and it's no wonder we're still behind them despite the money Jose has spent

 

[dichinero]

First of all, I used Conte as an example of managers wanting more players and wanting to spend more. It isn't just Jose. Conte won the league and wanted more.

Second, he signed players and now we are second in the table. No one could see City becoming what they are now. That isn't Jose's fault. We are still building a team. We had 3 years of damage and are only 2 years into recovery. You are naive if you think 8 players and we would just win the league. The man hasn't even signed a fullback yet, while Pep has spent 130 million on them in one season. City were ahead of us to begin with and have continued to add players and spend. It's not mind boggling that they are still ahead of us.

Van Gaal left us in a mess and Jose has fixed a lot of it. This summer should see more players leave and replaced by players good enough to challenge for titles. Van Gaal's signings were good enough for challenging for top 4 and that's it.

Are you trying to be funny or is making stuff part of your repertoire?

Again, bringing City into it yet again.

I'm just going to leave this before this turns into something else.

 

[Cloud7]

It’s also sad to see so many try to paint criticism as some kind of anti-Mourinho agenda, when so many, myself included, wanted him to be SAF’s replacement.

I thought the notion of backing every word and action of the manager was shown to be a fallacy after Moyes, but I guess not.

 

[haram]

Are you trying to be funny or is making stuff part of your repertoire?

Again, bringing City into it yet again.

I'm just going to leave this before this turns into something else.

City are our competition. What is it that I said which has disturbed you? Do you not want to discuss it? City were better than us. Spent more and are still better than us. Surprise. Good thing we are above the rest of the teams in the league though and have racked up a decent points total.

 

[redNATION]

Replace him with Messi? I love how people rewrite history to make their argument fit. It was Frank Rijkaard who gave him his debut. Messi was on the bench with Iniesta who Frank also called up from Barca B.

I didn’t say anything about debut, Pep made Messi the focal point of the team to the detriment of Ronaldinho, and that’s pretty much accepted history (you could even argue that Rijkaards failure to do this and continue to rely on Ronaldinho cost him his job).

 

[haram]

It’s also sad to see so many try to paint criticism as some kind of anti-Mourinho agenda, when so many, myself included, wanted him to be SAF’s replacement.

I thought the notion of backing every word and action of the manager was shown to be a fallacy after Moyes, but I guess not.

Claiming we need to spend more money to catch up to City is a pretty fair opinion.

 

[Litch]

I didn’t say anything about debut, Pep made Messi the focal point of the team to the detriment of Ronaldinho, and that’s pretty much accepted history (you could even argue that Rijkaards failure to do this and continue to rely on Ronaldinho cost him his job).

Your inference was it was all Pep. It wasnt to the detriment on Ronaldinho, his off the field antics was already to his detriment. Rijkaards dropped Ronaldinho for his lack of discipline so there was no blind faith in him.

 

[ivaldo]

How am I meant to know if it has ever happened? I'm just correcting your post which wasn't factual like you made it out to be.

Well it's fairly obvious the point I was making. Contextually, what does your post add to the conversation?

 

[Dobbs]

5 months is ages? You go move abroad and work for someone new and come back and tell us whether you settled in during that time

Can you remember another United player bought for this kind of money who made such a limited impact? I can't. It's a seriously slow start to his career here. That's not even discussing if he was needed in the first place.

The scouting and purchases have to be great if indeed Mourinho feels we haven't spent enough. Guy's got to live up to his reputation. This is what it's all about.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Differentiate between what's been spent, and what's been needed. There is a significant discrepancy. Context is your friend.

Yep, exactly this.

 

[FujiVice]

We're a club who sells our best player for £80 million and replaces him with a bloke from Wigan who is now a right back, an Alien and a 60 year old Michael Owen on a free. That was almost a decade ago now, and it still stuns me how we didnt invest that money. You could have got a few world class players for that in 2009.

 

[ivaldo]

I'm saying what he has been given to spend and the amount of players he's brought in is not comparable to how much was needed to spend in order to remedy the flaws in the team. Given the current market and the price we are quoted for players, 300m has not been near enough, nor have we managed to get rid of quite a few players.

Apologies, I misunderstood your point. I agree. As I said previously, we've been significantly outspent by our rivals who had a better team than we to begin with. It is a project and it should be considered so.

 

[FootballHQ]

Most interesting thing for me now is whether Man.United comfortably nail second rest of the season or do you fall back into the pack because make no mistake Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs aren't that far behind and all have capabilities to pounce.

Arsenal will also have their usual post xmas run.

If current performance levels don't improve it will be a scramble just to finish top 4 I think.

 

[NinjaZombie]

It begins. Jose is starting to turn the screw. Maybe he's not as good as he thinks, if he's complaining about not having spent enough.

Why can't he take this on the chin, identify a few players he can coach the best out of and try to sign them for next season instead of giving the press headlines like this? I know I and probably a few other United fans are prepared to take a longer term view, especially with City having the season of their lives.

Instead, the press are getting sensationalist headlines out of him which could further fuel him leaving sooner rather than later.

I'm thinking Pep and City's success so far are screwing Jose's short termism approach and he's looking for a way out.

 

[Stacks]

I'm saying what he has been given to spend and the amount of players he's brought in is not comparable to how much was needed to spend in order to remedy the flaws in the team. Given the current market and the price we are quoted for players, 300m has not been near enough, nor have we managed to get rid of quite a few players.

Spot on and given in that same period City have been prepping for Pep's arrival (with the purchases of the likes of De Bruyne) and it's no wonder we're still behind them despite the money Jose has spent

Sane - De Bruyne - B.Silva - Jesus = 160 million Combined

Pogba - Lukaku = 164 million combined, quik mafs

Loses 50 million FB for the season = converts Delph like he did Lahm, quik fix

No Kompany, turns Otamendi into Prems most consistent defender after shaky start.

 

[Hugh Jass]

De Bruyne was highly touted and was purchased for 65 million. Sterling had a great year at Liverpool and challenged for the title. Was signed for 50 million. Aguero does play as much as Jesus does so I don't get your point there. Fact is the City team was better than ours already. The point that we could have purchased Ox is laughable. Yeah we could have, he's shite though and is nothing on Pogba. We sign players like Ox we will just be where Liverpool are. Rooney is still shit besides his goals. You are making so many poor points.

This. I agree.

 

[TheGame]

By the sounds of it we have two posters on here, the ones that take into consideration context and reference what is actually happening, and those that have no understanding of how the game works and expect the unreasonable. You sir, are in the latter.

If you can't see the SIGNIFICANT improvements under Mourinho, what are you doing on a football forum? Where was Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal 'etc', all these teams you ate ejaculating over in comparison to us, and where were they last season in comparison to us last season? Unless you are 'numerically dyslexic', you might want to reconsider your POV.

Are you having a laugh? All of those teams finished above us in the league last season. We scraped into the CL with a lucky Europa League run. Seems like the only one 'numerically dyslexic' is you!

 

[charlenefan]

Can you remember another United player bought for this kind of money who made such a limited impact? I can't. It's a seriously slow start to his career here. That's not even discussing if he was needed in the first place.

The scouting and purchases have to be great if indeed Mourinho feels we haven't spent enough. Guy's got to live up to his reputation. This is what it's all about.

Given the money is all relative to the time period to which we're in I can answer that easily with Vidic. He may have only cost us 7m back in 2004 but in today's football he would have been a 30m defender before even kicking a ball for us

 

[ivaldo]

We're a club who sells our best player for £80 million and replaces him with a bloke from Wigan who is now a right back, an Alien and a 60 year old Michael Owen on a free. That was almost a decade ago now, and it still stuns me how we didnt invest that money. You could have got a few world class players for that in 2009.

Evidently money has been there to spend. It's been demonstrated repeatedly since the departure of Fergie. For me, he's the greatest manager in the modern era, but it doesn't mean he didn't have faults. To go against every single piece of evidence available and say his hands were tied in terms of expenditure is ridiculous.

 

[Mr.Plow]

One way we could spend more is by shifting some players. Amazing that we finished 6th and yet there were no casualties. How many average full backs and CBs do we need?

 

[AshRK]

Goodness me. Can you not make a point without bringing other people into it? First Fergie and now Conte.

Back to the point. Jose is the world class manager that came into the club of his dreams with an an apparent 6 months to get himself together, and with all of his PL experience, assessed the players and concluded that he needed 8 players. The only thing missing from from his wish list is the mighty Perisic.

Or was that not what happened? Or what are we talking about here? Yeah man, I don't know what you can tell me.

Oh and btw, this is got nothing to catch up with City seeing as you've brought them into this as well.

This may be far fetched but i feel he was the most important player of Jose's wish list. Let s not forget the biggest strength Perisic has is his crossing and his ability to counterattack which our wide players lack to an extent. But I still believe Jose should have given some alternatives and not just stuck to one player.

 

[charlenefan]

Sane - De Bruyne - B.Silva - Jesus = 160 million Combined

Pogba - Lukaku = 164 million combined, quik mafs

Loses 50 million FB for the season = converts Delph like he did Lahm, quik fix

No Kompany, turns Otamendi into Prems most consistent defender after shaky start.

You either can't spell or type or you think you're being whimsical with your ghetto talk either way you're clearly not the type of person I want to speak to so goodnight

 

[dichinero]

City are our competition. What is it that I said which has disturbed you? Do you not want to discuss it? City were better than us. Spent more and are still better than us. Surprise. Good thing we are above the rest of the teams in the league though and have racked up a decent points total.

Dude, I'm happy to have discussions, regardless of difference in opinions, as long as it doesn't result in trading insults.

My point was just stating facts.

Jose came and assessed the squad, and by his on volition requested for 9 players to which he said he would be more than happy with that and the rest of the squad at his disposal. The only thing missing is Perisic. He made it clear that the objective was the title. These are all his words btw.

I, like some other fans didn't feel confident about his approach but obviously we are agenda driven, negative arm chair managers. Now, what some of us were concerned with at the start have unfolded but what do we know.

The point is not whether the squad needs investing in, because I'm yet to see a poster that thinks otherwise. For a manager of José's ilk, he has totally misjudged the assessment and thus should carry some of the blame like every manager does. Rather than making the club look like they've starved him of funds. That said, I don't buy into trying to catch City as an ambition, ours is to be the best we can be and many fans believe that what we have can do better than this without necessarily talking about City.

 

[kul m]

I'm getting sick and tired of mourinho's pathetic excuses, what a load of cobble.

The manager should improve the players at the club, and the players coming into the club. It's pathetic.

The players we have at the club aren't as bad as mourinho is making them out to be.

You could argue that de bruyne @ £50m is a better buy than pogba @ £90m. Probably not commercially but on footballing ability and affecting games.

 

[ivaldo]

Are you having a laugh? All of those teams finished above us in the league last season. We scraped into the CL with a lucky Europa League run. Seems like the only one 'numerically dyslexic' is you!

Let me spell it out for you. All those teams you mentioned in such complimentary form were ABOVE us last season, this season they are BELOW us... And you are using them as an example of how we should be? That you can't see the obvious improvement is baffling. Here's a clue: 2 is a lower number than 6.

 

[izec]

Chequebook manager wants more money. I dont think January is the right time for immediate transfer reinforcements

 

[Rory 7]

Reading Jose’s comments I don’t see what the issue is. In a world where City have a bottomless pit of money, 265m is not enough. I agree with him.

 

[AshRK]

Agree with all but the bolded which im not sure of. That's for the next manager to decide. If we get someone that wants to implement an attacking philosophy based on intricate passing, I wouldn't be surprised to see Lukaku relegated to a lesser role or even sold eventually. Those manager types are often ruthless with players like Lukaku

Only ways the club or the next manager relegates Lukaku to bench or sell him is a) he suffers some serious injury b) Martial/Rashford become proper goal scoring machines c) We sign Kane/Lewandowski. Honestly don't see Martial/Rashford becoming a proper number 9's, yes they could score many goals but still we would need a number 9 and Lukaku is one. Also, cant see us signing Kane or Lewa. Don't know if there are many strikers who could score for fun. I know Lukaku's all round ability is not the greatest but trust me with proper services (which he doesn't get here) he will easily bang 30+ goals and could also touch 40 mark. I feel this season is a bit harsh to judge him and I feel he is trying too much. I feel we have not seen the best of him and neither are we using him to his best. Give him 4 or 5 crosses a game he will surely bang in 2 or more. Thats why I said he is here to stay.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

It is far too many excuses at the moment. We need to get to work and improve what we got. Also try to scout cheaper players. I guess it is hard as all clubs increase the cost like crazy once they figure out we are interested. I said this during LVG spell that us spending too much on poor players will bit us in the ass since we will have to pay more for the same quality in the future.

I don't think we lack quality as much as we lack good tactics and a mentally stable team due to a strong manager. Mourinho is the main problem recently. He has done a lot of good, but most of the bad is his fault too.

 

[haram]

Dude, I'm happy to have discussions, regardless of difference in opinions, as long as it doesn't result in trading insults.

My point was just stating facts.

Jose came and assessed the squad, and by his on volition requested for 9 players to which he said he would be more than happy with that and the rest of the squad at his disposal. The only thing missing is Perisic. He made it clear that the objective was the title. These are all his words btw.

I, like some other fans didn't feel confident about his approach but obviously we are agenda driven, negative arm chair managers. Now, what some of us were concerned with at the start have unfolded but what do we know.

The point is not whether the squad needs investing in, because I'm yet to see a poster that thinks otherwise. For a manager of José's ilk, he has totally misjudged the assessment and thus should carry some of the blame like every manager does. Rather than making the club look like they've starved him of funds. That said, I don't buy into trying to catch City as an ambition, ours is to be the best we can be and many fans believe that what we have can do better than this without necessarily talking about City.

My point is, he wasn't going to come in and say he needed 15 players. Also, he has signed players and got us into second, with a points total which would normally be enough to challenge. He was never going to say the squad is shite. When he was trying to sell Schneiderlin and Depay he said he wanted to keep them. We know that's bollocks.

He is not saying the club has starved him of funds. Just that we need to spend more to continue to compete. City have been outrageous this season. Not much we could do about that.

 

[ivaldo]

Dude, I'm happy to have discussions, regardless of difference in opinions, as long as it doesn't result in trading insults.

My point was just stating facts.

Jose came and assessed the squad, and by his on volition requested for 9 players to which he said he would be more than happy with that and the rest of the squad at his disposal. The only thing missing is Perisic. He made it clear that the objective was the title. These are all his words btw.

I, like some other fans didn't feel confident about his approach but obviously we are agenda driven, negative arm chair managers. Now, what some of us were concerned with at the start have unfolded but what do we know.

The point is not whether the squad needs investing in, because I'm yet to see a poster that thinks otherwise. For a manager of José's ilk, he has totally misjudged the assessment and thus should carry some of the blame like every manager does. Rather than making the club look like they've starved him of funds. That said, I don't buy into trying to catch City as an ambition, ours is to be the best we can be and many fans believe that what we have can do better than this without necessarily talking about City.

Consider it objectively. Was City a better team prior to the managers arrival? Yes. Have they spent more money since their arrival? Yes. Would a different manager turn a inferior team into a superior one despite spending less money than our rival? If your answer is yes I'd like to know who this manager is. Has Jose invested in unnecessary areas? No.
These are facts. These are important facts.

It's clearly evident we have made significant improvement since Mourinhos arrival, what are you so unhappy about?

 

[Cristiano Lell]

My point is, he wasn't going to come in and say he needed 15 players. Also, he has signed players and got us into second, with a points total which would normally be enough to challenge. He was never going to say the squad is shite. When he was trying to sell Schneiderlin and Depay he said he wanted to keep them. We know that's bollocks.

He is not saying the club has starved him of funds. Just that we need to spend more to continue to compete. City have been outrageous this season. Not much we could do about that.

I guess that is all fair enough.

 

[Hawks2008]

It begins. Jose is starting to turn the screw. Maybe he's not as good as he thinks, if he's complaining about not having spent enough.

Why can't he take this on the chin, identify a few players he can coach the best out of and try to sign them for next season instead of giving the press headlines like this? I know I and probably a few other United fans are prepared to take a longer term view, especially with City having the season of their lives.

Instead, the press are getting sensationalist headlines out of him which could further fuel him leaving sooner rather than later.

I'm thinking Pep and City's success so far are screwing Jose's short termism approach and he's looking for a way out.

I don't think his ego would let him walk away from this. If Pep runs him out of Manchester his pride wouldn't recover.

 

[dichinero]

This may be far fetched but i feel he was the most important player of Jose's wish list. Let s not forget the biggest strength Perisic has is his crossing and his ability to counterattack which our wide players lack to an extent. But I still believe Jose should have given some alternatives and not just stuck to one player.

This might be one of the few times I've agreed with you. I just think we were under prepared going into the season partly down to what I consider to be a poor assessment of the squad, by the management and the board. The lack of alternatives is what irrates me with the idea that he hasn't been backed properly, which means bar Perisic he got every single thing he wanted.

Whether Perisic would have been the answer, we'll never know. Personally I don't think so. An alternative would be nice and sincerely hope we have some names for January

Given how the club were involved in talks with Perisic and Griezmann, it's fair to lay blame on the club for not backing him.