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Moyes So Far!

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Moonwalker

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Fergie said he left the club in a great place with a fantastic mix of youth and experience. Was he wrong?
Never mind Fergie, Paddy fecking Barclay(not his biggest admirer) claimed not only that this squad is good, he claimed it was Fergie's 'biggest ever achievement'.

An exaggeration to be sure, but it just goes to show how these narratives are told.

When you see things like "the other teams were poor" being used as an argument, you know you're dealing with vacuous heads.

Most of the criticism of the squad is coming from embittered muppets, who seek vindication for their buffoonery over the years(see debilish above).
 

Dracula

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55 mins last night was a good performance against an average side. Then for half an hour we did what every everton supporter I know said would happen at the beginning of season, that we would go 1-0 up (effectively) and cling on to a lead. We've don't this too many times this season and it's cost us many points. It almost got us again last night. That wasn't the United way fir the last half hour, we should have won 5-0.
 

Drifter

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55 mins last night was a good performance against an average side. Then for half an hour we did what every everton supporter I know said would happen at the beginning of season, that we would go 1-0 up (effectively) and cling on to a lead. We've don't this too many times this season and it's cost us many points. It almost got us again last night. That wasn't the United way fir the last half hour, we should have won 5-0.
Have you watched United these last few years.
 

rio's upper lip

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“There are stories of this player falling out, or that one falling out, but it rubbish. People are looking for reasons why we are not doing well and it is only because we have not been playing well.
What does that last bit even fecking mean?
 

Mauzindark

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Have you watched United these last few years.
Point is we're seeing most of the negatives from Fergie's tenure but none of the positives. Granted we sat back since Ronnie left, Fergie was accused of zombie passing etc but we also showed great passion, ruthlessness, determination and spirit, barely missing out on 2 more PL titles. All of those qualities seemed to have miraculously evaporated barely 2 months into Moyes' appointment.
 

Revan

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Oh dear what?
89 points would win you the league 80-90 percent of time. The shit that we won the league because others were poor should stop because a) is a big lie; b) it disrespects the team and SAF.

This year with all those teams that great, lets see which of them will get near 89 points.
 

FreakyJim

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55 mins last night was a good performance against an average side. Then for half an hour we did what every everton supporter I know said would happen at the beginning of season, that we would go 1-0 up (effectively) and cling on to a lead. We've don't this too many times this season and it's cost us many points. It almost got us again last night. That wasn't the United way fir the last half hour, we should have won 5-0.
Actually it's Fergie's tactics.

Last night Moyes was urging the players to go forward but they ignored him, I'm sure lots of people will pretend that didn't happen. But it did.
I'm starting to think players have a major part of the fault for our miserable season. They're behaving like cnuts making the new guy's job extremely difficult.
 

togg

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Actually it's Fergie's tactics.

Last night Moyes was urging the players to go forward but they ignored him, I'm sure lots of people will pretend that didn't happen. But it did.
I'm starting to think players have a major part of the fault for our miserable season. They're behaving like cnuts making the new guy's job extremely difficult.
Yes there is no doubt Moyes was gesticulating for the defense to move up and press...it wasn't his instruction for them to sit deep and let Olympiakos pressure us higher up the field. I just think think winning meant quite a lot to the players last night, based on Moyes's speech to them on Monday about owing something back to the fans at Old Trafford who have supported them despite hardly giving them anything to cheer about. I think, possibly, Moyes hit a nerve - meaning that once they went three nil up, the players got more and more nervous, hence moving deeper and deeper.

Hey...perhaps Moyes is learning something about how to motivate these players after all!!!!!
 

Sky1981

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Actually it's Fergie's tactics.

Last night Moyes was urging the players to go forward but they ignored him, I'm sure lots of people will pretend that didn't happen. But it did.
I'm starting to think players have a major part of the fault for our miserable season. They're behaving like cnuts making the new guy's job extremely difficult.
So.. the collective 23 professional players conspiring together to make his life miserable... the real moyes is actually a footballing genious?

You created all that theory and you actually believe them?

Here's a much simpler theory : Moyes is just not that good.
 

Comsmit

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What does that last bit even fecking mean?
It means basically he feels the players haven't been good enough, which they haven't. Saying that his management of them hasn't been good enough either, in fact it has been shocking to the point where a 3-0 victory at home over Olympiakos is considered the "high point" of his tenure.

I genuinely believe that Moyes actually feels he is doing everything right, and it is simply the players letting him down. Why else would he have no idea or no answers to the problems he faces? When a man cannot recognise his weaknesses or his mistakes then he is actually a problem to those around him.

Although I'm pleased he got the result I truly feel the players decided after Sunday that they needed to up the ante and drag themselves through with force of will. They wouldn't have required a motivational push from the manager, it would just have been there.
 

FreakyJim

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How are they behaving like c"nts?
By ignoring their manager's instructions? I'd say that's pretty cnutish. Ok, he's not Fergie, he's never won a trophy etc but I was hoping our players would be a bit more professional. Turns out they're as bad as most typical footballers. Basically uneducated, rich Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Okay although I disagree, let's assume that we were a team desperately in need for plenty of changes. Let's assume, for example that we're Spurs for a second. Now surely, you'd agree that Spurs need to improve their personnel before they can go for 4th. So is it okay for them to finish 13th or something with the new manager? That wouldn't like mean a thing or say anything about the managers capabilities? What if he got them relegated? I mean, he'd need his own team before he can be judged right?
 

amolbhatia50k

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By ignoring their manager's instructions? I'd say that's pretty cnutish. Ok, he's not Fergie, he's never won a trophy etc but I was hoping our players would be a bit more professional. Turns out they're as bad as most typical footballers. Basically uneducated, rich Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
Well, that's a great deal of respect for players who have given a lot to the club. Well done, you.
 

FreakyJim

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Well, that's a great deal of respect for players who have given a lot to the club. Well done, you.
They're not showing any respect towards a guy in a new, extremely complicated and difficult job. It's only fair they take some blame, from a random cnut in an internet forum. I think they'll survive.
 

Sarni

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Well, that's a great deal of respect for players who have given a lot to the club. Well done, you.
We owe nothing to these players. Right now the man we should support is David Moyes, the most honorable man at Manchester United. Players are just fecking cnuts, they can all feck off, it's all about DAVID MOYES <3
 

Sarni

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They're not showing any respect towards a guy in a new, extremely complicated and difficult job. It's only fair they take some blame, from a random cnut in an internet forum. I think they'll survive.
How the feck are they not showing him respect?
 

Mauzindark

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Okay although I disagree, let's assume that we were a team desperately in need for plenty of changes. Let's assume, for example that we're Spurs for a second. Now surely, you'd agree that Spurs need to improve their personnel before they can go for 4th. So is it okay for them to finish 13th or something with the new manager? That wouldn't like mean a thing or say anything about the managers capabilities? What if he got them relegated? I mean, he'd need his own team before he can be judged right?
No. That guy shoudn't be sacked. By the logic of some here he should get every change to break down the club's structure, sack the coaching staff, rip apart the scouting system, spend 70 million, drill his negative mindset into the players, come up with bizzare selections, boycott some flair players, then spend another 200 million, sell some of their most valuable players, make the squad his own. Only then should we judge him. He should get a free pass until then. And the players, previous manager, luck, you, me, Eboue, Bobby Zamora should take the blame.
 

Sarni

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No. That guy shoudn't be sacked. By the logic of some here he should get every change to break down the club's structure, sack the coaching staff, rip apart the scouting system, spend 70 million, drill his negative mindset into the players, come up with bizzare selections, boycott some flair players, then spend another 200 million, sell some of their most valuable players, make the squad his own. Only then should we judge him. He should get a free pass until then.
God I'd love a job like that.
 

Drummer

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Perhaps in a few months I can look back on this game and see it as the start of great things, when it looks like his plan of cohesive, controlling, attractive football is finally coming together. But at this point it's a bit like saying "Well done little Timmy, you may have managed to throw all your food on the floor, spit all over the table and shit yourself, but you've picked up the cup! Hooray! Happy 14th Birthday."

It's such a base managerial requirement to motivate a team in this position, and so largely his fault to begin with, that to give him credit for, essentially, NOT fecking up and slumping out in pathetic fashion isn't really something I feel like jumping at. Though yes, he did manage to not do that. Well done Timmy.



Yes Giggs and Wellbeck played. Both played reasonably well too. But it wasn't some managerial masterstroke of tactical nouse. We didn't control the game, exploit their weaknesses or nullify their threats due to these players playing. We had less possession, at home against Olympiacos, who also conspired to have more attempts on goal (14 > 12) and more completed passes than us (327 > 309) but we scored a penalty and a free kick. It wasn't exactly Chelsea away at City.

Apparently though, this is "magnificent"

Who said anything was Magnificent?

You see there has to be some recognised balance to the moyes debate. One game doesn't make a season, but people can't have everything their own way about moyes just because it suits them.

Under the circumstances that was a superb result. Team bereft of confidence. People saying there's been nothing to suggest moyes can grow into the position. People saying he is tactically useless. Well last night he got alot of things right.

Irrespective of how they won, they qualified to the quarter finals after turning over a two goal deficit. I've seen plenty a champions league night under SAF where the team under-performed and couldn't rise to beat inferior opposition so let's have none of this rose tinted glasses sh;t that everything always worked out under SAF! Two seasons ago we couldn't get out of an easier group then we had this season!

If people cannot awknowledge the positives from last nights game and are refusing to give moyes any credit at all for it, then there is little point in ever discussing moyes With them because they clearly don't have any balanced opinions on the manager.

Moyes gave good interview last night and some people are still nitpicking and whining about it!

Some people are more concerned with what Liverpool fans and hacks are saying then following their own club!!!
 

Sarni

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The idea that a squad of 25 consistent winners have somehow decided to go against Moyes and lose games deliberately is so insane it's difficult to even have a proper discussion about it.
 

Sarni

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Who said anything was Magnificent?

You see there has to be some recognised balance to the moyes debate. One game doesn't make a season, but people can't have everything their own way about moyes just because it suits them.

Under the circumstances that was a superb result. Team bereft of confidence. People saying there's been nothing to suggest moyes can grow into the position. People saying he is tactically useless. Well last night he got alot of things right.

Irrespective of how they won, they qualified to the quarter finals after turning over a two goal deficit. I've seen plenty a champions league night under SAF where the team under-performed and couldn't rise to beat inferior opposition so let's have none of this rose tinted glasses sh;t that everything always worked out under SAF! Two seasons ago we couldn't get out of an easier group then we had this season!

If people cannot awknowledge the positives from last nights game and are refusing to give moyes any credit at all for it, then there is little point in ever discussing moyes With them because they clearly don't have any balanced opinions on the manager.
Thing is yesterday changes nothing, we were average but won thanks to van Persie's brilliance and defensive solidity. That performance was still miles behind a fluid offensive display you'd expect from a team like United, the positives are that we managed to win comprehensively in spite of not doing that much, the negatives are that football was still not that good and we won more through chance and individual moments of brilliance than organised performance - which is still a worry seeing as we haven't had a single fluid performance in months.
 

Jimy_Hills_Chin

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Actually it's Fergie's tactics.

Last night Moyes was urging the players to go forward but they ignored him, I'm sure lots of people will pretend that didn't happen. But it did..
Do you mean when he was shouting for the players to 'push up'? If so that is not the same as asking them to attack. The players can be sitting in and defending a lead but dropping too deep which invites pressure in the most dangerous area of the pitch. 'Push up' in this instance means to move the defensive shape further up the pitch.

It certainly looked to me that we adopted a defensive shape as soon as we went a goal to the good.
 

FreakyJim

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How the feck are they not showing him respect?
By ignoring his instructions? By snide little social media comments? Yes, they've behaved admirably.

I'm perfectly aware Moyes will be blamed for everything. It's football, I wasn't born yesterday. But I hate it when the players get away with everything.
 

Mauzindark

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Irrespective of how they won, they qualified to the quarter finals after turning over a two goal deficit. I've seen plenty a champions league night under SAF where the team under-performed and couldn't rise to beat inferior opposition so let's have none of this rose tinted glasses sh;t that everything always worked out under SAF! Two seasons ago we couldn't get out of an easier group then we had this season!
Wow hate this statement. Can't hide my disgust for it. So the great man's lowest moments should be treated as a barometer to measure against Moyes' greatest achievements at United ? I'm not saying you don't have the right to defend Moyes if you feel like it. But atleast have some respect for Sir Alex man. Purely as a manager David Moyes isn't fit to tie Fergie's laces.
 

Sarni

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By ignoring his instructions? By snide little social media comments? Yes, they've behaved admirably.

I'm perfectly aware Moyes will be blamed for everything. It's football, I wasn't born yesterday. But I hate it when the players get away with everything.
Well it's his job to motivate them and get them to play as a unit, isn't it? Preferably without having to sell all of them and spend 300M to build 'his team'. He's a terrible manager if he cannot motivate a team and not even a billion of spending will change that. Likewise tactics department.

I refuse to believe that a team who had so much fighting spirit last season somehow decided to play shite this season because they don't like Moyes. If that was the case they wouldn't have bothered to turn up last night - but they did. But yeah, let's slate all our players who have won us multiple titles and European honors, because it's David fecking Moyes we owe everything to.
 

finneh

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We only won the league comfortably because the others were so poor. Do you honestly think that players go on performing at the same level for ever? Far more experienced and qualified people than you or I - and probably anyone on here - have recognised that Moyes was handed a squad that had given all it had to give and now needed major surgery. That will happen in the Summer. If there's no improvement in both performances and results by December I'll join those calling for Moyes to go, but not until then.
You must really despise Fergie I assume, on that basis? He builds a team specifically for his own success and jumps ship just as they are all about to collapse. Sounds to me like Fergie must have been a self-indulgent narcissist who doesn't have many feelings for the club. A real shame as I believed the great man when he said himself that he'd built the club from top to bottom to avoid a major drop off when he left, clearly a smokescreen.

Or it could be that RVP, Rooney, Rafael, Vidic, Evans, Jones, Smalling, DDG, Evra, Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa, Nani, Carrick and even Ferdinand are all very good player's who under a great managers guidance would flourish. Most of these are also in their twenties which would suggest that Ferguson was in fact preparing for the long term and not one final flourish.

At work I've heard this opinion that our squad is suddenly very poor, my response is always the same:

Who thought a defence of Ivanovich Terry Cahill Azpilicueta would compete on any sort of level this time last season? You have a player who is way past it, an upper mid table plodder, a talented youngster and a powerful full back lacking any technical ability. On paper that looks like a defence that Spurs wouldn't trade for, but guess what? They have comfortably conceded the fewest goals in the league. Their manager has them playing like top class player's, just like Fergie did with Rafael, Evra, Ferdinand and Evans last season.

Great managers motivate (and build a system that encourages) good player's to play great.
 

Sarni

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You must really despise Fergie I assume, on that basis? He builds a team specifically for his own success and jumps ship just as they are all about to collapse. Sounds to me like Fergie must have been a self-indulgent narcissist who doesn't have many feelings for the club. A real shame as I believed the great man when he said himself that he'd built the club from top to bottom to avoid a major drop off when he left, clearly a smokescreen.

Or it could be that RVP, Rooney, Rafael, Vidic, Evans, Jones, Smalling, DDG, Evra, Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa, Nani, Carrick and even Ferdinand are all very good player's who under a great managers guidance would flourish. Most of these are also in their twenties which would suggest that Ferguson was in fact preparing for the long term and not one final flourish.

At work I've heard this opinion that our squad is suddenly very poor, my response is always the same:

Who thought a defence of Ivanovich Terry Cahill Azpilicueta would compete on any sort of level this time last season? You have a player who is way past it, an upper mid table plodder, a talented youngster and a powerful full back lacking any technical ability. On paper that looks like a defence that Spurs wouldn't trade for, but guess what? They have comfortably conceded the fewest goals in the league. Their manager has them playing like top class player's, just like Fergie did with Rafael, Evra, Ferdinand and Evans last season.

Great managers motivate (and build a system that encourages) good player's to play great.
Exactly. Klopp took an underperforming winger from Hertha Berlin and turned him into one of the finest full backs in the world. That's what manager is there for - to improve players, to get them to play at their highest possible standard, not chop them when they are struggling and replace them with several multimillion signings. That's exactly what we have despised Madrid and City for and now it somehow becomes justifiable becasue otherwise Moyes won't be able to get us a top 4 spot. It's crazy.
 

#07

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You must really despise Fergie I assume, on that basis? He builds a team specifically for his own success and jumps ship just as they are all about to collapse. Sounds to me like Fergie must have been a self-indulgent narcissist who doesn't have many feelings for the club. A real shame as I believed the great man when he said himself that he'd built the club from top to bottom to avoid a major drop off when he left, clearly a smokescreen.

Or it could be that RVP, Rooney, Rafael, Vidic, Evans, Jones, Smalling, DDG, Evra, Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa, Nani, Carrick and even Ferdinand are all very good player's who under a great managers guidance would flourish. Most of these are also in their twenties which would suggest that Ferguson was in fact preparing for the long term and not one final flourish.

At work I've heard this opinion that our squad is suddenly very poor, my response is always the same:

Who thought a defence of Ivanovich Terry Cahill Azpilicueta would compete on any sort of level this time last season? You have a player who is way past it, an upper mid table plodder, a talented youngster and a powerful full back lacking any technical ability. On paper that looks like a defence that Spurs wouldn't trade for, but guess what? They have comfortably conceded the fewest goals in the league. Their manager has them playing like top class player's, just like Fergie did with Rafael, Evra, Ferdinand and Evans last season.

Great managers motivate (and build a system that encourages) good player's to play great.
This.

And: Yahoo Eurosport ~ Champions League - Paper Round: Robin rescues Moyes
 

Mauzindark

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You must really despise Fergie I assume, on that basis? He builds a team specifically for his own success and jumps ship just as they are all about to collapse. Sounds to me like Fergie must have been a self-indulgent narcissist who doesn't have many feelings for the club. A real shame as I believed the great man when he said himself that he'd built the club from top to bottom to avoid a major drop off when he left, clearly a smokescreen.

Or it could be that RVP, Rooney, Rafael, Vidic, Evans, Jones, Smalling, DDG, Evra, Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa, Nani, Carrick and even Ferdinand are all very good player's who under a great managers guidance would flourish. Most of these are also in their twenties which would suggest that Ferguson was in fact preparing for the long term and not one final flourish.

At work I've heard this opinion that our squad is suddenly very poor, my response is always the same:

Who thought a defence of Ivanovich Terry Cahill Azpilicueta would compete on any sort of level this time last season? You have a player who is way past it, an upper mid table plodder, a talented youngster and a powerful full back lacking any technical ability. On paper that looks like a defence that Spurs wouldn't trade for, but guess what? They have comfortably conceded the fewest goals in the league. Their manager has them playing like top class player's, just like Fergie did with Rafael, Evra, Ferdinand and Evans last season.

Great managers motivate (and build a system that encourages) good player's to play great.
Magnificent post.
 

Getsme

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By ignoring their manager's instructions? I'd say that's pretty cnutish.
Let's say that true, why hasn't he dropped them? Why have a player in the team that refuses to follow team tactics?
If it's true (which I don't think it is) then he's to weak,and is another reason why he shouldn't be manager
 

amolbhatia50k

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They're not showing any respect towards a guy in a new, extremely complicated and difficult job. It's only fair they take some blame, from a random cnut in an internet forum. I think they'll survive.
Been in the dressing a lot then, have you?
 

amolbhatia50k

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You must really despise Fergie I assume, on that basis? He builds a team specifically for his own success and jumps ship just as they are all about to collapse. Sounds to me like Fergie must have been a self-indulgent narcissist who doesn't have many feelings for the club. A real shame as I believed the great man when he said himself that he'd built the club from top to bottom to avoid a major drop off when he left, clearly a smokescreen.

Or it could be that RVP, Rooney, Rafael, Vidic, Evans, Jones, Smalling, DDG, Evra, Hernandez, Welbeck, Kagawa, Nani, Carrick and even Ferdinand are all very good player's who under a great managers guidance would flourish. Most of these are also in their twenties which would suggest that Ferguson was in fact preparing for the long term and not one final flourish.

At work I've heard this opinion that our squad is suddenly very poor, my response is always the same:

Who thought a defence of Ivanovich Terry Cahill Azpilicueta would compete on any sort of level this time last season? You have a player who is way past it, an upper mid table plodder, a talented youngster and a powerful full back lacking any technical ability. On paper that looks like a defence that Spurs wouldn't trade for, but guess what? They have comfortably conceded the fewest goals in the league. Their manager has them playing like top class player's, just like Fergie did with Rafael, Evra, Ferdinand and Evans last season.

Great managers motivate (and build a system that encourages) good player's to play great.
Good post.
 
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