Exactly...people making out that Moyes has turned our playing style to shit is annoying we have continued to play the same boring slow predictable football that we have been playing for the previous years. The only positive that I thought would have come from SAF retirement was a change in playing style but sadly Moyes seems to think there isnt a need for change there.
Moyes So Far!
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This sums the situation up exactly. Good post.
I think that the positional play and intent that Valencia went about his game with tells you that we were setup not to lose at any cost. It was a good result for David Moyes but not for Manchester United the sporting institution.
There was no improvement or progress in that game. There was no rhythm or spark. We contained a team that was happy to be contained.
The press are off Moyes's back for the time being. The Telegraph dedicated their whole coverage of the game this morning to Arsenal faltering title bid. Nonetheless, a point is completely worthless for the Manchester United at this point in time.
Rejoice as your dear leader is protected from the hounds of the press until the next great failure (a week or two), forget that the club is now cut completely adrift from the lowest level of underachievement that should be acceptable.
It was shit or bust and Moyes chose to hide.
Yep.
May I ask all those who see last nights result as a positive, a result by the way that more or less guarantees we won't get 4th. Should Moyes now walk?
If not, why? Serious question by the way, I'm genuinely interested as I'm desperately looking for something that I must not be seeing.
The team (and the manager) are desperately low on confidence. A defeat last night, particularly a defeat that wasn't by the odd goal in a low scoring game, could have made them worse. They'll be heading out to Dubai feeling like they've at least stopped the rot, which improves the chances of them coming back refreshed and ready to fight.
We're in a hole right now and the first step has to be to stop digging.
Agreed. We in fact put in the same performance Chelsea put in at OT at the start of the season and if RVP hadn't been off his game, we would have taken all 3 points.
A thing that seems lost on many complaining about this result.
We weren't getting 4th anyway, last night isn't the result that ensured that. An away draw at the Emirates is a respectable result.
I don't think that it would have made it worse if we went out there, tried to win the game and put in a good attacking performance. I think that even if we lost in that circumstance most of us would commend the manager and the team for rolling the dice (which was absolutely necessary at this point) and showing some philosophical progress. To me, a point is worthless. The only purpose that the match served was to take the heat off Moyes for a little while so now the team can go to Dubai and lick its wounds.
Not the behaviour, style or approach of any top manager or team IMO.
You suggest a pragmatic approach, but to me it is an approach that is only valid once we have started accepting the unacceptable.
yeah, right.I'm really not sure why people are so annoyed about the performance, well, I am, it's cause people on here will be negative over just about anything under Moyes. Personally, I was prepared for the worst when I saw the dreaded 4-4-2 line up, and then pleasantly surprised about how we actually played in the game. There was a clear shift in tactics away from the god awful ones we used against Fulham, an away performance that Fergie would probably be very happy about. I can see why people are annoyed that we didn't go full on to try win it given our current situation, but let's face it, last night proved that this is just Liverpool's year and there's no catching them now.
We looked like a team last night, a team who knew what they were doing and had a gameplan, that's more than we've seen for most of this season and that's a good thing for me. Top 4 is gone now, if we show signs of improvement like that, show that we're actually trying to change things, then that's good enough for me.
We looked like a team last night, a team who knew what they were doing and had a gameplan, that's more than we've seen for most of this season and that's a good thing for me. Top 4 is gone now, if we show signs of improvement like that, show that we're actually trying to change things, then that's good enough for me.
A draw away against one of the title contenders which could easily have been a win and people are still moaning? Just shows they aren't objective at all and just have an agenda against the manager.
We didn't break quickly though - at all. The one time the whole game that we did, we almost scored. Again, our play on the ball is very slow and ponderous. Things that should be taking 1 or 2 seconds/touches takes 4 or 5 touches/seconds... the way we looked to move the ball quickly up the pitch were through long-balls - which didn't really work. Other then that any "attacks" were through normal passages of play, that generally tended to break down when we got to the final third - the service into our front two, RVP in particular, was really non-existant.
And this is exactly what I said in the post-match thread. It was a neccesary performance, and it would be remiss to expect some swashbuckling attacking football last night - but I still think we could and probably should have shown a little more attacking intent on the couple occassions that the opportunity presented itself... I mean, the one time in the second half that we actually did, we almost scored.
Good post. Agree with all of that.
Amidst all the post-Fulham hysteria and the repeated claims that moyes can only get this team to play one way it's also worth noting that Arsenal attempted more crosses than United did last night.
Nail meets head
Moyes definitely did a much, much better job last night then he has in recent weeks though - and deserves credit - but it wasn't exactly flawless.
All of which is exactly what you'd expect from a team that is lacking in self-belief. Last night's result is a step towards getting it back.
Hesitation or pointlessly hoofing the ball upfield are the hall-marks of footballers who lacks confidence in their own abilities. Which is to be expected with all that's gone on this season and the departure of Fergie. We even saw similar performances when he was still at the club, when he first announced his retirement.
As always people are desperate to blame moyes for this lack of panache and nervousness in our football. Which is not entirely fair.
http://www.offthepost.info/blog/2014/02/gif-it-even-david-moyes-is-fed-up-of-man-utds-negative-tactics/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: offthepost/TLAa (Off The Post)
Obviously, the onus is on the manager to re-build this shattered confidence. A result like last night, right before a week of team-building in Dubai, could be a vital first step.
To be fair to Moyes - I can't imagine for one second his instruction to Ashley Young when he came on was to just hoof the ball 80 yards - no matter who or what the situation around him was - yet that's the first thing Young did when he came on... probably either because a) he was playing nervous or b) he's a bit of an idiot.
I just don't think this was a "typical Fergie performance" in the fullest sense... but I also don't see it as a terribly bad thing that it wasn't - and the sooner the comparison points between Moyes/Fergie begin to stop, the better it'll be. Again, it was a compltely neccesary performance.
Yeah, I think that's fair. We have played a lot worse under Fergie but it also wasn't the quality counter-attacking football we usually player against the same opponents.
I'm pleased with the result but my goodness that was a tedious display. Forgot I was watching Manchester United. That's the sort of performance I'd expect us to put out when playing away at the Nou Camp, but this Arsenal team were there for the taking.
I'd give my left bollock for him to be shown the door, I'd be devastated if this style of football sets the norm for us now.
I'd give my left bollock for him to be shown the door, I'd be devastated if this style of football sets the norm for us now.
Stinking out the joint is stinking out the joint. It is fine to do that away against your title rivals if you are a pragmatic manager. Arsenal are not our title rivals, we went into that game clinging to our last hopes of getting into the Champions League, we should have gone for the win.
There were no signs of progress, the match wasn't dissimilar to Arsenal or Chelsea at home this season. Nobody is saying that Moyes isn't able to stink out the joint and get a draw, he has been doing that for years. What he has always been unable to do is to get his teams to score goals consistently. We will see progress when we start beating teams like Newcastle, Fulham and Sunderland 3 and 4-0 after controlling the game.
Whilst there was nothing to rave about in last nights performance there wasn't really anything to moan too much either. It was decent. Nothing more nothing less. In those types of games we really need to work on our transitions from defence into attack because it was the ideal type of game to play on the counter but our transitions are just far too slow.
I do wish we wouldn't insist on always having at least one out and out winger on the pitch at all times. Even Henry Winter (who seems to love Moyes) was on MUTV before the game saying he hopes to see RvP, Rooney, Mata and Januzaj all together and that Moyes has to go for it and play them all as he thought Arsenal would struggle to deal with that front 4.
RvP and Rooney making the same runs is getting irritating. Instead of one of them dragging the defender away for the other they both want to be the one to score so get in each other's way. If Rooney spent more time in the 'hole' nearer the edge of the box (rather than running in behind the defence) he'd probably get more goalscoring opportunities from picking up second balls or even giving the wingers a different crossing option.
I don't expect this team to show any great attacking flair under Moyes, so in that sense I'm not disappointed.
I do wish we wouldn't insist on always having at least one out and out winger on the pitch at all times. Even Henry Winter (who seems to love Moyes) was on MUTV before the game saying he hopes to see RvP, Rooney, Mata and Januzaj all together and that Moyes has to go for it and play them all as he thought Arsenal would struggle to deal with that front 4.
RvP and Rooney making the same runs is getting irritating. Instead of one of them dragging the defender away for the other they both want to be the one to score so get in each other's way. If Rooney spent more time in the 'hole' nearer the edge of the box (rather than running in behind the defence) he'd probably get more goalscoring opportunities from picking up second balls or even giving the wingers a different crossing option.
I don't expect this team to show any great attacking flair under Moyes, so in that sense I'm not disappointed.
There were huge signs of progress over our last few games, we've obviously given better performances than that this season but we're hardly going to go and put in an amazing performance when confidence is shattered after playing crap and drawing at home to the worst team in the league.
Around 90% of the people on here said we'd lose last night and play horribly. We play decent and get a draw and ... they're still complaining.
Is there anyone else that thinks Moyes should come out and state that we're not in the race for 4th anymore? Yes, it's obvious but the players comments, his comments suggest that's still the objective. I think he should take the pressure off and it can do wonders.
I really want to see what his end of season speech is going to be at OT, and the reception he'll get for it:
"We've had a good season, just need more luck, playing better, Manchester United expect to win things, a big thank you to the coaching staff"
"We've had a good season, just need more luck, playing better, Manchester United expect to win things, a big thank you to the coaching staff"
Moyes got the tactics right for Moyes not for Manchester United. He got a result which eases pressure on him, but not the We needed. You can go on about how 4th was already gone but it's mid February and it's pretty much confirmed after this result. There is nothing in that which is an achievement for Manchester United. If the talk of players and staff doing all they can to get top 4 is true, this result will have a negative effect on the players not a positive one. These are top players and they know their race is finally run in a negative display.
Agree. Playing style has altered little. I actually think Moyes wants to do more but is limited by our midfield and slow centrebacks. He obviously wants to play a high line and press from the front but you can't do that with Vidic, Evans and Rio. I think Jones is certainly down for centreback and whoever Moyes recruits in the summer. I personally think Smalling isn't quite mentally tough enough, but we'll see. The midfield offering no protection is another reason why Moyes can't play that way at the moment. I've said all along we can't judge him till next season when HIS Manchester United team start the season. If by next summer things haven't improved, then I'll be questioning his long term future.
I don't see how anything about last night can be seen as a huge sign of progress. Whilst I admit here wasn't too much to moan about there wasn't really much to take solace in either.
No, that was possibly phrased wrong. What I meant was that last night was huge progress in comparison to the previous few games where we looking hopeless.
You think Moyes set up these tactics with his future in mind, and it's the extent of his footballing knowledge? Yesterday's performance was no different to many over the years with Sir Alex in charge.
We realise you don't think much of Moyes with your posting history since being promoted. I'm sure you can come up with better reasons to criticise his management.
Yeah, but it wasn't any better than the 1-0 win against Arsenal when we all hoped we were turning things around. I see no reason to think yesterday means anything. So we know how to close Arsenal down. Our attacking was still crap.
To be fair, under Sir Alex the circumstances would be very different in that we were actually in a title race, hence the understandable caution when he sets up to play away. Now however we're not even in the running for top 4, so Moyes should have gone for it since we had nothing to lose. Of course, instead of having the balls to take the game to Arsenal his midtable mentality predominates - sit back when you're sitting precariously at 7th place.
In fairness it was a better performance, given our previous games that wouldn't be to hard. While it may be a positive step what I miss is the never say die attitude, where has it gone? We had to win yesterday, but it's like we settled for a draw. There was no urgency, it's disheartening.
I'm not blaming Moyes entirely, as I said in a previous post it was encouraging to see him urging the players forward, but big changes are needed, be it managerial or players? well that's down to personal opinions.
This.
I feared, after Moyes' statements to the press, that we'd go to the Emirates and try and cross our way to victory but we actually went there to play football. By and large we kept the ball on the floor, people tried to overlap and make angles for each other and we had some spells of good possession even if we were tentative with the ball through most of it.
It wasn't vintage Man Utd but it wasn't pumping it into the box aimlessly for 90 minutes either. We weren't wonderful but we did show some signs that we're gonna improve. Dare I say it had we played like we did last night more often this season we wouldn't be so far off fourth...
Agreed. I said last night we were still in with a chance if we matched Liverpool's score vs Fulham (when they were 2-1 down). If Liverpool's score stayed like that it would be seen as a very good day.
The results and performances against Stoke, Fulham and Spurs this calender year were awful. The result and performance vs Arsenal was perfectly acceptable, as was the case at Old Trafford.
Come on do you really have have to talk about post history? That has no relevance.
Also that was nothing like Fergie performaces the only thing that comes close is the city one in 2012. Fergie has played defensively but always in the context of having lethal counter attacking play.Very few times have I ever seen us play backs against the walls hoof tactics for 45+ minutes.
Yes I believe Moyes took this game in isolation. Rather than look at the repercussions of not getting a result it was a steady the ship job. As I said these are top players to be out of the champions league race in February does nothing good for confidence.
I understand. However, football is just as much played in the mind as with the feet. Arsenal although going for the title were equally tentative. That's due to the Liverpool game which affected their mindset.
If you take the game in isolation I'd have taken that result and performance.
If you completely ignore the fact that we're a team completely devoid of confidence that might make sense. I mean, look at how that affected Arsenal and they're near the top of the league.
I agree with this but can you take it in isolation though? It was the last chance to do something for the fourth place and we didn't even try to win. We had nothing to lose and a draw only confirmed that we are definitely out of the race.
The only good thing I can say from yesterday is that the defense was much better than usual. We have conceded a lot of goals against teams that attacked more than Arsenal so hopefully this defense will be as good as yesterday in the next games. However the attacking side gave a midtable performance and were extremely unimaginative. We had 2 chances (and 4 shoots) during the entire game which frankly speaking isn't good enough for a team that has RVP, Rooney and Mata on the pitch.
All the more reason to have gone for it then! Every pundit, football fan and their dogs knew that the Liverpool victory had taken the wind our of Arsenal's sails, hences Moyes should have smelt blood and had a good at them. Typically, he didn't, and the fact that he's never won away to the 'top 4' testaments his mentality.
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