You are right that we need quality and competence but one good thing doesn't dismiss another good thing. Phelan and Martin Ferguson was the right people to co operate with Sir Alex, doesn't mean they are good for other clubs.If Phelan and Martin were so good, then I am sure that the likes of Barcelona and Bayern will do anything in their power to sign them up, wouldnt they?
Its very common in football to have managers employing yes men. In fact nearly all managers come with their own repertoire of 'staff' which they insist to employ once they get the job.
Some are decent, others are just yes men who would fail miserably once they try to do something else. Do you remember how the great Choccy, Rene, Kidd and Queroz faired once they left OT? I guess to do. Others have more sense to retire once their protector had decided to call it a day.
Moyes to appoint Neville, Round and others
- Thread starter Crustanoid
- Start date
I'd be delighted to have Phil back. Having won everything with United, picked up 59 caps and captained a major Premiership club for years, he'd command respect despite his inexperience as a coach. He's also a perfect professional and you can't have too many of them around. I'm sure he'll go far in coaching/management.
We do need quality and competence however my argument is somehow different. Each manager has his own staff whom he trust. Amongst them you'll find yes men, who are in the job because they are related to the manager or because they do good coffee etc. When a manager leaves, these people are the first to end up in the fire line. That's how football works.
Why should Moyes work with SAF's Yes men? Its not as if we got Barcelona's setup were they shit world class youth talent every morning. Our youth academy hasn't produced 1 world class article since the Fergie babes burst into scene + time and time again we suffer from waves of injuries which tend to cripple our chances for success. Its not all rosy at OT.
Not going to happened but how do you (Moyes) know who're the yes men? Today DDG express his feelings regarding Steele. Another day RVP talked about Reneé M.
Changes are necessery but the hard part is to know when and who.
wtf?
Someone said, we know nothing about his coaching. I replied to that.
You've replied to that by saying essentially that you dont want English coaches, at an English club.
Has he brought anyone in at all? Have I missed all these official announcements of ex-Everton employees arriving at United?
English coaches are shit, because England are shit. Scotland however, as we all know, are an International super power, and have been for years.
Erm, I meant now, not then.theres absolutely no point to be made with that argument. Its utter horseshit to be honest, like a lot of this thread really. Blind speculation based on little or no knowledge of the situation.
McClaren did ok with us for a English Coach didnt he?
Well you have just cited McClaren. That's one coach among how many, exactly?
OK let me rephrase. You mentioned Neville being invited into the U21 set-up, inferring that makes him an excellent coach.
I disagree with that premise.
The whole drive behind St George's Park is to improve the standard of English coaching. So what, now you are going to say the English FA is wrong?
Ditto. His record of 398 games for United should command respect from young, new, and senior players. Not to mention 15+ years of playing career in top teams.
Round is very highly rated as well by all accounts.
They are so many names being mentioned i'm kinda confused.
Do we know what roles we are looking to fill, for example who are the candidates for the Asst. Mgr role, head coach etc?
Do we know what roles we are looking to fill, for example who are the candidates for the Asst. Mgr role, head coach etc?
Steve Round - Assistant Manager
David Moyes - Manager/Head Coach
Phil Neville - First team coach
Chris Woods - GK coach
Robbie Cooke - One of the senior, if not the head, scouts.
Football is a niche business and under such circumstances everyone tend to know everyone. Moyes has been an EPL manager for years. Everton’s youth team had played against our youth team in numerous occasions, they would know the tactics they tend to use and they would have followed our youth’s progress throughout the years. Its in their interest to do so, first of all because Everton rely heavily on their youth academy and would therefore use any trick available to improve their kids. Secondly they may spot youth talent on cheap (they took Gibson on peanuts).
Also SAF would have given Moyes a detailed handover which would include the roles of each and every individual. SAF can be brutal at times. I still remember the terrible (and over the top) assessment he gave about Kidd a few years back when the latter was on the process of joining Blackburn. Giving a yes man a job where he can do no damage is one thing. Risking someone’s reputation and the future of the club because some idiot may get lucky in getting an internal promotion is a whole different cup of tea.
Thanks mate, from that list it appears there is no room from Rene.
Who is this Lumsden (spelling) bloke?
but...but..he's ENGLISH!!
So, basically, he's taking a coaching staff that's helped us win the Premier League, and replacing them with coaches who helped Everton win... nothing.
Fabulous.
Fabulous.
No-one in any type of sport should stop trying to improve standards! (or in any type of business for that matter)
You seem to have a problem with his appointment (if it gets confirmed) because he is English. What difference does it make what nationality he is?
You dont know what methods he uses, you havent attended any of his training. For all we know, he may be one of the most innovative young coaches around. I'd say the same thing regardless of his nationality.
Being foreign doesnt necessarily equate to being the best of the best
feck. Off.
Er, thanks? It seems my opinion is hardly alone in this thread, but each to their own. Frankly, I don't think upsetting the balance of a staff setup that clearly works is a good idea.
If SAF moved upstairs and Moyes kept the same staff there is no way he would have been able to manage the place properly. If SAF was gone there would be some argument for coaching continuity. To be despairing with no knowledge of the blokes coming in is madness.
True enough, but I've worked in places where new management has brought in a load of their own staff to supplant existing workers, and I've never seen it work. Now, that might be anecdotal, but it's coloured my opinion of the matter.
So, the idea is that if Fergie went to Everton with his staff they would do much better than Moyes?
The question of a good manager and staff is not just how many trophies you've won.
Rene was apparently offered a position as one of the first team coaches.
Not sure about this Lumsden bloke.
I really hate this type of comment.
Pretty sure they would. You're taking about Sir Alex Ferguson here.
Well, yeh. Is that even up for debate? He's the greatest manager of all time, after all!
I'd say taking Everton above sixth - or to a trophy - is a huge ask. Mind you, the fact they haven't done that recently shouldn't reflect badly in any way on its coaching staff. They've done a lot of good and deserve a chance at a higher level.
We need to remember that the 'staff' work mainly for the manager. I guess Round, Cooke etc are part of his team and part of the package of signing Moyes.
Like it has been said before, we at United aren't used to a new manager and this is all new to us. We don't know what's happening.
Like it has been said before, we at United aren't used to a new manager and this is all new to us. We don't know what's happening.
We had replaced the most decorated manager in our history with a manager who helped Everton win......nothing.
I'm sure the Count wasn't best pleased with that either.
Wonder if as many Chelsea fans are crying about Mourinho bringing his own staff to the club as there are Utd fans on here.
Did people expect Moyes to keep the same staff? What planet do you guys live on?!
Did people expect Moyes to keep the same staff? What planet do you guys live on?!
cloud cuckoo land
It's funny that so many are complaining about our staff changes after spending the past two-three years complaining about our style of play and how we've ruined several players(Rooney, Ando etc.
But muppets here need a reason to moan.
But muppets here need a reason to moan.
I don't have a problem per se with an English coach. However YOU referred to Neville's invitation to join the England U21 set-up as some kind of irrefutable endorsement of his qualities.
I'm not even saying especially that Moyes shouldn't bring his own team in.
As for the joker who sarcastically mentioned that Scotland has excellent coaches but is a poor international side, well Scotland doesn't think it has a chance of winning the World Cup or the European Championship.
He is that. Which makes it all the more difficult to assess the job people like Phelan and Rene have done. They have obviously had a good working relationship with Fergie - but Fergie, alas, is no longer in charge. And when he was he was in charge of the entire operation, from A to Z. What makes a man an ideal assistant to the greatest manager of all time doesn't necessarily make him ideally suited to the job at hand - which involves working for a manager who has yet to prove exactly how good he is at the very highest level.
Let Moyes pick his crew. The continuity is taken care of elsewhere: By Fergie himself sticking around in some capacity, not least.
I'd like for Rene to stay - be it said. Mainly because I like the bloke. But if he can't be fitted into Moyes' set-up in a way both can live with - well, what can you do? The most important thing for the club right now is that the manager assembles a crew he trusts 100%.
I can imagine, team like Barcelona, wouldn't want a radical change in their staff setup when hiring a new manager. They have a succesful setup that's been built for years, and they won't be so keen to change it drastically, as United seem to prepare to let Moyes do.
But United still have Fergie on the background. I don't think whatever change Moyes is planning, is without the blessing of (or at least consulting to) Fergie first. We know Moyes respect Fergie, and they have close relationship to not be so selfish.
I try to ingrain this thought in my mind, just for the time When I disagree with what Moyes does for United.
But United still have Fergie on the background. I don't think whatever change Moyes is planning, is without the blessing of (or at least consulting to) Fergie first. We know Moyes respect Fergie, and they have close relationship to not be so selfish.
I try to ingrain this thought in my mind, just for the time When I disagree with what Moyes does for United.