Napoli president rules out signing Africans committed to Nations Cup

[SalfordRed18]

Strange point at a time when the world is getting more inclusive and breaking down barriers.

You gotta be on a wum at this point.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Strange point at a time when the world is getting more inclusive and breaking down barriers.

Tell that to De Laurentiis.

In any case, this is definitely more comparable to not hiring women because of maternity leave than the basque thing. Similar reasoning too.

 

[JPRouve]

What the Napoli president said is dumb but I don't think he will think twice about signing a great African player. Either way, an idiotic thing to say.

Although, Personally I find the Bilbao policy of signing Basque/Basque-based players discriminatory. I only found out about their policy when they signed or tried to sign Lizarazu. Don't think these two are comparable though.

I don't think that the use of discriminatory is accurate or at the very least in context. You have no right to play for Napoli or Bilbao and they can have their own criteria and in the case of Athletic they consider themselves as a regional team, if you are not linked to the region they have no reason to target you. And in the case of Napoli, if they can't sustain your absence during the middle of the season it's not in their interest to target you or at the very least they have to be very careful.

To me the issue starts when people suggest that African nations should move their competition to a date that doesn't suit them, it's disrespectful.

 

[SilentWitness]

So you speak for everyone? Like I said it’s offensive to those that consider themselves from the place they were born. If you don’t then that’s your choice.

I think people are struggling with their Bilbao defence. Spent so long applauding a discriminatory policy now they can’t bring themselves round to condemn it. Even thou the same word “criteria” that they keep using about Bilbao also applies to Napoli, only Napoli’s criteria isn’t set in stone and even if he sticks to it it doesn’t rule out African players who weren’t born or didn’t grow up in Campania.

i don’t see how it’s offensive to say there’s nuance behind it? The nuance is that it’s up to the individual. If someone relates their identity to where they were born, that’s fine, if someone doesn’t, that’s fine too. You’re the one that seems to want to limit it.

nobody is struggling with their defence. You Posted a wrong statement, backed it up with multiple more wrong statements and then instead of admitting you were wrong have decided to tell everyone that they’re struggling. Weird.

 

[fishfingers15]

I don't think that the use of discriminatory is accurate or at the very least in context. You have no right to play for Napoli or Bilbao and they can have their own criteria and in the case of Athletic they consider themselves as a regional team, if you are not linked to the region they have no reason to target you. And in the case of Napoli, if they can't sustain your absence during the middle of the season it's not in their interest to target you or at the very least they have to be very careful.

To me the issue starts when people suggest that African nations should move their competition to a date that doesn't suit them, it's disrespectful.

I understand what you are saying but having one's own criteria excuse is often misused, in my opinion. I fully agree with your view that moving tournament dates to suit one's personal view is disrespectful.

 

[JPRouve]

I understand what you are saying but having one's own criteria excuse is often misused, in my opinion. I fully agree with your view that moving tournament dates to suit one's personal view is disrespectful.

In theory I agree but in this case, do we have anything to show that Athletic misused it?

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

i don’t see how it’s offensive to say there’s nuance behind it? The nuance is that it’s up to the individual. If someone relates their identity to where they were born, that’s fine, if someone doesn’t, that’s fine too. You’re the one that seems to want to limit it.

nobody is struggling with their defence. You Posted a wrong statement, backed it up with multiple more wrong statements and then instead of admitting you were wrong have decided to tell everyone that they’re struggling. Weird.

It’s a free world. Your entitled to view it how you view it. If Mo Salah, Harry Kane, Pogba, Halaand, Alvarez, can play for Bilbao then I’ll happily change my opinion on Bilbao and say I was wrong.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

Tell that to De Laurentiis.

In any case, this is definitely more comparable to not hiring women because of maternity leave than the basque thing. Similar reasoning too.

When on maternity leave people are not applying their trade for another company.

 

[antohan]

Yes, but if representing your country means anything to you as a footballer, you obviously won't make such a pledge.

It's not some frivolous activity you choose to participate in (because you fancy it) on a semi-yearly basis - it's actually more comparable to a duty (for a top footballer from X, it could be easily seen as a duty to football fans from X, if nothing else).

Of course, I would hate it if the same had applied to Cavani back in the day. Something tells me Cavani simply wouldn't have joined them though. Their loss, etc.

Napoli have every right to make that a rule and players affected by it can choose to join them or not. Adults exercising free will, simple.

 

[SilentWitness]

It’s a free world. Your entitled to view it how you view it. If Mo Salah, Harry Kane, Pogba, Halaand, Alvarez, can play for Bilbao then I’ll happily change my opinion on Bilbao and say I was wrong.

It’s not an opinion based argument though. You literally said they discriminate based on skin tone and nationality. The facts disagree.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

You gotta be on a wum at this point.

Your point is Bilbao have been doing it for a 100 years so it’s ok. Please think about that.

 

[antohan]

A woman pledging not to have children would also be under their control, but no one in their right mind would say an employer requiring it wasn't discriminating.

Nor would anyone in their right mind expect the UN to include "the right to play football for your country in January" in the universal declaration of human rights.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Like another poster has mentioned the policy has changed a bit. But regardless apply both policies to a company employing people which would raise more eyebrows.

Company A hiring: Applicants must be born in the basque region, or raised in the basque region.

Company B hiring, applicants can’t take non medical leave during our busiest and most essential period.

Yeah, it has - and like I said above this focus on protecting a certain "culture" is potentially extremely dubious.

Anyway, let's talk about the current policy, as it stands.

(Also, let's ignore the fact that you initially seemed quite ignorant about the current policy - sorry, but I can't help pointing that out again, given that you haven't acknowledged it at all.)

But yes - alright:

There's a reason the policy is controversial - it is, and it absolutely should be discussed. It obviously involves (it is the very core of the policy) discriminating against anyone who does not meet a certain standard (which has been stretched over the years, but that's irrelevant if we're talking about the principle of the thing).

However, the intention is - obviously - important. Which is to protect and promote the interests of the Basque Country (a region that is considered significant as a region - in a cultural, historical, political *, whatever you like sense). The intention is not to exclude anyone (on the basis of so-called ethnicity or nationality) but to protect and promote the Basque Country (by only accepting recruits that have an actual, meaningful connection to the region).

When they do this by - actually - stretching the "Basque" definition (in football terms) to anyone who has played youth football (for a while) for a team in the region (clearly regardless of where they came from, and their so-called ethnicity), then I personally can't find too much wrong with it.

Not least if you look at it in the wider context of how football is developing as such - where local fans are treated like shit and classified as...what was it again...legacy fans (insert gif of someone puking).

* Oh yeah, sure. If you want to feast on that, go ahead. But I won't join you - not today anyway.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Except that he does say if they pledge not to take part in Afcon it's all fine and dandy. That's under their control. Harsh, but what it boils down to.

How is this even feasible? What would the players do when they're called up, feign injury like Gueye? Retire from international football?

 

[JPRouve]

How is this even feasible? What would the players do when they're called up, feign injury like Gueye? Retire from international football?

They can't feign injury. The protocol means that the player can be asked to travel to wherever the national team is or the national team can send a doctor of the federation to the player and he will be the one deciding if the player is fit or not. And the player risk a suspension if he refuses the call.

 

[antohan]

How is this even feasible? What would the players do when they're called up, feign injury like Gueye? Retire from international football?

Any of those work. There's also an option called "dialogue with your NT manager". You'd be surprised how civilised people can be sometimes.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Any of those work. There's also an option called "dialogue with your NT manager". You'd be surprised how civilised people can be sometimes.

And what incentive would there be for the African NT managers to let their star players withdraw from the competition?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Of course, I would hate it if the same had applied to Cavani back in the day.

Yeah...but isn't that the point?

A player shouldn't have to do that in order to sign for a club.

Forget about the racism thing - whether Napoli's owner (or whatever he is) is a "racist" (or someone you can accuse of "racism") or not according to current Internet standards is of little interest to me.

The point is that it's extremely questionable (no - it's just plain wrong) to demand that a football player should agree to not represent his country in a major tournament just because it's an inconvenience to his club team.

 

[SilentWitness]

Good posts @Chesterlestreet and completely agree.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Good posts @Chesterlestreet and completely agree.

Thanks, mate - and same to you.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

Yeah, it has - and like I said above this focus on protecting a certain "culture" is potentially extremely dubious.

Anyway, let's talk about the current policy, as it stands.

(Also, let's ignore the fact that you initially seemed quite ignorant about the current policy - sorry, but I can't help pointing that out again, given that you haven't acknowledged it at all.)

But yes - alright:

There's a reason the policy is controversial - it is, and it absolutely should be discussed. It obviously involves (it is the very core of the policy) discriminating against anyone who does not meet a certain standard (which has been stretched over the years, but that's irrelevant if we're talking about the principle of the thing).

However, the intention is - obviously - important. Which is to protect and promote the interests of the Basque Country (a region that is considered significant as a region - in a cultural, historical, political *, whatever you like sense). The intention is not to exclude anyone (on the basis of so-called ethnicity or nationality) but to protect and promote the Basque Country (by only accepting recruits that have an actual, meaningful connection to the region).

When they do this by - actually - stretching the "Basque" definition (in football terms) to anyone who has played youth football (for a while) for a team in the region (clearly regardless of where they came from, and their so-called ethnicity), then I personally can't find too much wrong with it.

Not least if you look at it in the wider context of how football is developing as such - where local fans are treated like shit and classified as...what was it again...legacy fans (insert gif of someone puking).

* Oh yeah, sure. If you want to feast on that, go ahead. But I won't join you - not today anyway.

Protecting “history, heritage and culture” is as you say highly dubious and has been used by various groups & organisations who we deem as vile to justify their views etc.

I’d think instead of limiting it to only players who meet a criteria, Bilbao’s policy would be less discriminatory if it was “at least x amount of players must meet the basque criteria “ of course that number shouldn’t be something like 11 starting players and 5 subs.

 

[fishfingers15]

In theory I agree but in this case, do we have anything to show that Athletic misused it?

No, that was just my personal opinion.

 

[duffer]

I wonder if the Napoli bloke waited until after he sold Koulibaly to make these comments.

Chelsea's new number 26 had this to say...

Asked if he had ever been approached to discuss not playing for Senegal at AFCON in his career, Koulibaly replied: “No, never. Nobody ever told me not to go to AFCON. Maybe sometimes they tried to ask my agent, but with me as captain as Senegal, even as a player of Senegal, when AFCON comes I want to be the first one there.

“In December I was injured, so I came to Senegal early to start my training with the team. I was really happy and excited to start the AFCON.

“Nobody can tell me not to go to my national team. I have a lot of love for my national team, for my country, for the people I play for. If somebody tells me not to go there, it’s the only time I will fight with somebody.

 

[maniak]

Nor would anyone in their right mind expect the UN to include "the right to play football for your country in January" in the universal declaration of human rights.

Strange to know that every time you're trying to use common sense, you have to instead rely on the universal declaration of human rights. Must be tiring.

 

[lsd]

This is a tricky one to call the guy racist on.

I recall Klopp crying and moaning how unjust it was that he would lose his best players for 6 weeks and I'm pretty sure Fergie said something about he would be concerned about the same happening in his squad at one point.

I don't see this as anything against African players as it would be the same no matter what sort of tournament was held during the season.

If every 2 years you would lose every London player for example to play in a London based tournament for 6 years in sure there would be owners going why would we buy players from London if they going to leave us at a crucial point?

 

[SilentWitness]

This is a tricky one to call the guy racist on.

I recall Klopp crying and moaning how unjust it was that he would lose his best players for 6 weeks and I'm pretty sure Fergie said something about he would be concerned about the same happening in his squad at one point.

I don't see this as anything against African players as it would be the same no matter what sort of tournament was held during the season.

If every 2 years you would lose every London player for example to play in a London based tournament for 6 years in sure there would be owners going why would we buy players from London if they going to leave us at a crucial point?

Haven't heard an MLS team or other mid-season league complain about signing players that will play in the Euros or WC before.

 

[Bole Top]

Napoli have every right to make that a rule and players affected by it can choose to join them or not. Adults exercising free will, simple.

yup. simple as.

 

[Bole Top]

Haven't heard an MLS team or other mid-season league complain about signing players that will play in the Euros or WC before.

there most likely have been such cases but they get less attention because they're aren't from Europe, but more important, they aren't outspoken like Laurentiis. plus, vast majority of best players play in England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France. when European championship starts in the summer, how many players can random MLS team possibly lose?

 

[SilentWitness]

there most likely have been such cases but they get less attention because they're aren't from Europe, but more important, they aren't outspoken like Laurentiis. plus, vast majority of best players play in England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France. when European championship starts in the summer, how many players can random MLS team possibly lose?

The point is that it shouldn't matter.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

Haven't heard an MLS team or other mid-season league complain about signing players that will play in the Euros or WC before.

MLS matches are played while the WC is being played?

 

[SilentWitness]

MLS matches are played while the WC is being played?

They were in 2018.

 

[antohan]

And what incentive would there be for the African NT managers to let their star players withdraw from the competition?

Helping the player settle at his club, earn his place there and develop, happy player... Plenty. Happens all the time with South American NTs: players letting the manager know "I'd rather not".

Of course, if it'a a country with little chance to make WC, Afcon is the ultimate competition. Still, if playing Jan is now the exception to the rule, it's workable.

 

[antohan]

Yeah...but isn't that the point?

A player shouldn't have to do that in order to sign for a club.

Forget about the racism thing - whether Napoli's owner (or whatever he is) is a "racist" (or someone you can accuse of "racism") or not according to current Internet standards is of little interest to me.

The point is that it's extremely questionable (no - it's just plain wrong) to demand that a football player should agree to not represent his country in a major tournament just because it's an inconvenience to his club team.

I think it's harsh but they are entitled to it. It's not like Napoli have a monopoly on sogning African players. There's hundreds of other clubs they can join instead.

Here we are, on the second month and umpteenth summer of begging a player to join us, yet we act like Napoli ruling themselves out of signing certain players is a problem for the players and not Napoli.

 

[antohan]

Strange to know that every time you're trying to use common sense, you have to instead rely on the universal declaration of human rights. Must be tiring.

It isn't because common sense dictates completely different orders of magnitude apply to those two situations.

For starters, one affects over 50% of the 7 billion people in the world and the other applies to African footballers who choose to sign for Napoli.

 

[Andersonson]

Calling this statement racist is a slap in the face for actual racism.

He is a owner of a club, and spends a lot of money buying players and high salaries. Said player going away for 10(!!) games every other year is a problem for that club. It basically means you need one more player to cover for him. Similar things have been said by Klopp, Mourinho and other managers.

There should be better solutions for national team duties, it shouldn't be scrapped, but every tournament should be at the same time

 

[maniak]

It isn't because common sense dictates completely different orders of magnitude apply to those two situations.

For starters, one affects over 50% of the 7 billion people in the world and the other applies to African footballers who choose to sign for Napoli.

There are different order of magnitude when it comes to discrimination.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It seems obvious to me that the conflicts between club football and international football will only increase over time. The amount of money in club football is just so massive. It's already kind of silly how much international football there is.

 

[DeGea’sFeet]

They were in 2018.

So one year? I’m sure if the African Cup was only played during one season we wouldn’t be hearing any complaints.

 

[SilentWitness]

So one year? I’m sure if the African Cup was only played during one season we wouldn’t be hearing any complaints.

No. They played through Euro 2020, Euro 2016 etc. You're talking about something you don't know the facts for again.

 

[Tønsberg]

What I've taken away from this thread is that this seems to be a forum dominated by people pretty far left on the political spectrum.
Some really interesting takes here to say the least.