It's 5-6 games they're missing out on. The competition is less than a month. It's hardly make or break.
Napoli president rules out signing Africans committed to Nations Cup
- Thread starter SalfordRed18
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The african federations, not the players. That's my point. Many (most?) players dream of playing for their country, and they're being asked to give that up if they want to qualify for a job. So apples and smaller apples I'd say.
The AFCON switched dates so they would no longer be held in WC years and I can see them further reforming if they felt it would help.
This SAF thing is a myth. He signed and probably wanted more African players than he did German. He wanted essien and wanted Mikel (arguably had him), signed fortune and djemba-djemba, also diouf and Manucho. If he felt you were good enough, or could potentially develop into something, he'd sign you, simple as that.
I'm not joking!
The FIFA calendar is a bit strange, there is a way to benefit almost everyone globally, if I'm not mistake a break in March April would allow all international tournaments to be played, I could forget a region but the weather is the most stable globally around that time and it would only take an extension of the current March international window by 20-25 days.
There are probably things you and I are giving up to qualify for any job. That's the commercial world. Wouldn't we like X weeks to pursue our dreams on full pay too? What is so important about kicking a footie around compared to my dream or yours? Ultimately there are some things that require protection on moral and ethical grounds and there are some things which don't.
The federations are nothing without players. At the moment, this is a complete non issue, I don't think Africans will be hitting the panic button because Napoli FC have taken a view, so this line of argument isn't especially important. But I would say the federations have to take into account the view of their players, and if their employment was widely impacted then I am sure we would see a compromise. This is another way in which it is distinguished from pregnancy.
We don't live in hypotheticals, we live in the now.
Right now, in the current system where club and international football are completely intertwined, a group of people are being rejected by an employer base on something beyond their control. That's discrimination whichever way you want to look at it.
If you agree with that discrimination for whatever reason, that's a different story.
How thou? If there were other international competitions held mid season and he only attacked the African Cup then yes. But it’s literally only this that has affected his team.
I think some people are actually patronising a whole continent by turning this into something more.
Also the Napoli guy isn’t discriminating on skin colour, Africa is a continent with every skin tone imaginable and the guy has clearly stated the criteria for signing players from African countries. Bilbao clearly do discriminate on skin tone and nationality, don’t know many Chinese, Nigerian, or Italian people who are Basque!
The closest example we have is international breaks, managers moan about that all the time but we don’t turn it into more than what it is. Managers being selfish to their own self interest.
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The Nations League is played during the football season. You don't have people saying you can only sign for me if you refuse to play in the Nations League/Euros etc. Additionally, you have leagues and teams completely changing their season for the WC this year. There may well be some African players and fans that value AFCON as highly because they have a chance of winning it. You saw how much it meant to Senegal and Mane to win it this year.
It is already the case that African players are punished for something they have no control over (their nationality). The punishment is that it is more difficult for football clubs to sign them.
Hardly so. There's so much money on the line now at the top level and losing important players mid season puts it at risk.
It's not personal Sonny, It's strictly business.
Yahoo put out an interesting take on this
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/napol...aurelio-de-laurentiis-comments-190903428.html
That's not what I see. If players are good, clubs will sign them, even if they have to miss an average of 3 or 4 matches a season because of the afcon. Which if we are honest is basically nothing when compared to what they contribute to the club.
Napoli is outright saying they don't care how good they are. If they're african, they don't want them. That's discrimination.
They accept anyone who has spent sufficient time in the youth system of a Basque club.
Their policy is worth debating but they clearly do not discriminate against anyone based on skin tone or nationality.
Have you heard of the Williams brothers? Their parents are from Ghana and they are black.
Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that.
The way the tournament has been viewed - and still is - has been disrespectful as hell (at best) from a lot of people (including a lot of fans, who don't even have the excuse that they're" just" trying to make as much money as possible).
He could check the teams right now most age class have at least one black kid. Athletic policy is to only have local or basque players, being born or bred in the region is enough.
National League are played in the summer.
Qualifiers are played during the season and league matches stop on the weekend before. Not as if teams are playing without their best players. So it’s not comparable but still an annoyance that I’m sure most manager would rather not have.
It's the Nations League, there are no qualifiers. Either way it doesn't take away from the original point that people don't hold AFCON as the same value as the Euros, Copa etc which is disrespectful and devaluing to African players, fans and people.
Lucky for them they’re not from Ghana otherwise they’d never get signed by Bilbao
Inaki Williams has declared to play for Ghana... + being from somewhere is far more nuanced than being born there.
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they were born in Bilbao. if they weren't and they spent early years in London for example, they would have been rejected on that particular basis. it's an obvious case of "discrimination" for everyone else, but the one we accepted. it will be the same with Napoli.
And? Where did I argue that they weren't? The poster said that Bilbao discriminate based on nationality and skin tone. That's not true.
Not exactly, to be eligible you need to be homegrown. Of course if you are not born in Basque country, haven't been developed in a basque club and you have no link to Basque country outside of being currently in the reigon, you are not eligible.
Think you’re mistake. Teams play in a league format to qualify for the finals in the summer. So they are essentially qualifiers.
Don’t know what to say about your second point. Please explain what you mean by people and hold to the same value?
which is my point obviously - not everyone can play for them, in fact, very low % of players can - because they decided that way. it's a definition of exlusive club that nobody have and never had problem with. private owners like current Napoli boss should have that same liberty without bringing all this racism talk into it.
Didums, hasn’t stopped African players being signed by the biggest clubs in the world.
Managers and chairmen will whinge about everything and anything. So again, doubt Africa give a feck.
But the post that you quoted was about them descriminating based on skin color, which isn't really the case. Bilbao goal is to promote local young footballers and basque decents, by definition it's a small portion of people but it's not limited to skin color or your ethnicity. The easiest way to play for them is to play for a basque club as a kid, that's how Laporte did it, iirc he had to play for the Aviron Bayonnais in order to join the Athletic.
It's one thing to say you're only signing players who had their football education in your own region. It's another to say you're not signing any players from a particular continent because they might miss a max of 6 games every 2 years.
They market it as the Nations League, not the Nations League qualifiers. It's a new format and tournament but it's played within the season.
It's self explanatory. The yahoo article makes a good point. Would people expect the Euros to be moved if an MLS team suddenly started hoovering up the top talent that would be playing there? Of course not. They'd say the MLS team was talking shite. The AFCON is less marketed, less respected as a spectacle and the players desire to play in it is often seen as odd by non-Africans within football who don't put it on the same pedestal as other tournaments because of when it is played and because of backwards thinking.
He knows he can't sign a Mane. The difference between the alternatives wouldn't be a huge deal hence its fine for him to stick his stance.
De laurentiis and SAF were among the few who had spoken about their intentions. I am sure that there are other clubs who keep such policy under wraps and many more who take AFCON in account prior signing new players. Not to forget those players who choose to represent their adopted country instead to avoid hurting their career too much.
It's a shame because the African continent can become the next SA football wise. It's also a way to help people get pulled out of poverty and can be a great tool to tackle racism.
but it's limited to other things.
1. how do you choose to be born in Basq country? you obviously can't.
2. how many kids from around the world actually have the chance to move to Basque country in that age? they're fecking kids, they depend on their parents.
all this sounds clear and easy on paper but is far from being that way. if you're kid from Ankara/Rio/Johanseburg, your path is in 99% cases sealed when it comes to playing from Bilbao. that's the simple truth.
Napoli will exlude much lower number of players than Bilbao will. the only difference I see is that their old president isn't camuflaging it under "encouraging young Basq players" policy. he could care less about age, sex. orientation, skin and nationality. he's looking at his club only and he isn't hiding it.
The Euros and Copa simply has better teams participating so why would people in general value them the same?
South American people and Europeans have their countries involved in those tournaments so why would they in particular?
At least AFCON gets way more coverage in the UK compared to the AFC Asian cup even though both continents perform at a similar level in World Cups. That, justifiably so is likely down to the large number of African ex-pats and their descendents currently living in the country.
How are teams meant to get better if you don't afford them the same opportunities to get better by supporting their infrastructure? In a footballing perspective they're better statistically but perhaps not to African people and their players. It means as much to them to play in AFCON as it does to Euro/Copa players. Plus the National League in England doesn't have better teams than the PL but why shouldn't they have the same value? They are just as important to football in England as the PL teams are.
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Okay, you are going on a tangent here. I already justified the rational behind De Laurentiis point so I won't get involved in that one.
nah, I'm done actually since I said everyhing I have to say about both cases. both Bilbao and Napoli policies I find 100% acceptable.
Of course it means as much to the players involved and the fans, agree wholeheartedly.
Just don't really get why you'd expect people in general to value them the same.
Wouldn't be surprised if many Africans don't give a crap about the Euros and I wouldn't see that as a bad thing.
Then if you have for example a Korean football fan, they're probably going to be interested in the AFC Asian Cup but then if they are going to watch other tournaments would likely go for the Euros or Copa before AFCON so they can watch legendary national teams like Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy etc.
Just seems normal/not a problem.
A 2 week mandated winter break would resolve this