Napoli president rules out signing Africans committed to Nations Cup

[stevoc]

No, thanks for your suggestion though



Summer is problematic for football in many parts of Africa (rainy season, hot temperatures and humidity)

So why do they hold the tournament during most African countries summer months then?

 

[antk]

So why do they hold the tournament during Africa's summer months then?

Average temps in Senegal over the year

 

[JPRouve]

So why do they hold the tournament during Africa's summer months then?

It's not summer months, it's the dry season. In terms of temperature it's a bit better than during May-June and in terms of rain it's a lot better than July to October.

 

[stevoc]

Average temps in Senegal over the year

So in Senegal July-September are the coolest months then?

It's not summer months, it's the dry season. In terms of temperature it's a bit better than during May-June and in terms of rain it's a lot better than July to October.

Ok fair enough.

 

[We need an rvn]

Bilbao don't just sign players that are born in Basque (which includes France) but also players who have learned their football playing for a basque team in their youth. Whilst limiting themselves signing top players who might want to play for the club, there is nothing racist about the policy.

I also completely understand what the Napoli president is saying. He is not saying anything negative about Africans as a person, but simply doesn't want to sign someone who will go missing for a month in the middle of the season and pay their wages, it's an unwanted distraction and hindrance - hence he's perfectly in his right to say that. He's not saying he's refusing to sign players based on their skin colour. Whilst it didn't affect Liverpool's results this season when they lost Mane and Salah, imagine if they had lost the league title by 1 point but they lost or drew one or two matches when the players were away? As a Liverpool fan or owner you'd be more than annoyed I'd imagine

 

[JPRouve]

So in Senegal July-September are the coolest months then?



Ok fair enough.

It's not a matter of temperature, temps are fairly even in most of Africa. The issue is that what is considered late spring and summer in Europe is monsoon season in large parts of Africa, there is a very high risk of rescheduling games unless they want to play water polo.

 

[TMDaines]

People are massively naive if they think clubs aren't factoring this in when considering signing African international footballers. Of course it is a factor.

 

[Red_Aaron]

People are massively naive if they think clubs aren't factoring this in when considering signing African international footballers. Of course it is a factor.

Indeed, we've never been silly enough to say anything out loud but it very seldom affects united - particularly under saf I was sure it was an unwritten policy. Nowt to do with race either more SAFs unrelenting desire to win at all costs and have nothing beyond his control

 

[Red Star One]

So are the home-grown quotas as racist as refusal to sign players committed to playing international tournaments during the season? Is it only racist policy when an Italian chairman says it loud, or is it also racist when a British manager doesn't sign African players and never speaks a word about it?
I think it has plenty to do with culture and what gets said publicly and what doesn't. In the UK you'd probably get crucified by the press so majority of managers will just prefer to keep their mouth shut and just silently ignore not-always-available players. In Italy they'll get louder and more vocal about absurd of AFCON being held during the season and in fact hindering career opportunities for many African players.

 

[SilentWitness]

People are massively naive if they think clubs aren't factoring this in when considering signing African international footballers. Of course it is a factor.

So are the home-grown quotas as racist as refusal to sign players committed to playing international tournaments during the season? Is it only racist policy when an Italian chairman says it loud, or is it also racist when a British manager doesn't sign African players and never speaks a word about it?

There's a difference between factoring it in during scouting and signings and actively saying "no african players unless they sign this waiver saying they won't play in this comp!".

 

[kouroux]

fully agree. On a normal season though it normally has some sort of bearing on it. Look at salah and mane last season they were missing for a period of time. I know fergie used to bear it in mind when signing players. But let’s face it if your good enough any team would buy you. Prime ronaldo or maradonna you wouldn’t care less if they missed three weeks.

It had no impact on Liverpool. They won all their games during the AFCON

 

[JPRouve]

It had no impact on Liverpool. They won all their games during the AFCON

Whether you can cope with it depends entirely on how wealthy you are. Big clubs will sign the best african players and they will have enough depth to cope with it.

 

[Red Star One]

There's a difference between factoring it in during scouting and signings and actively saying "no african players unless they sign this waiver saying they won't play in this comp!".

Yeah, but I think it's rather a cultural/PR difference than anything having real influence on recruitment policy. De Laurentiis says this because he doesn't give a single feck about whether media will consider it racist and he probably thinks he can have any influence on moving AFCON to more reasonable dates. You'll have a few Premier League bosses and manager sharing the very same sentiment as him, only just staying silent and refusing to sign African players without mentioning how big factor the AFCON unavailabilities are.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah, but I think it's rather a cultural/PR difference than anything having real influence on recruitment policy. De Laurentiis says this because he doesn't give a single feck about whether media will consider it racist and he probably thinks he can have any influence on moving AFCON to more reasonable dates. You'll have a few Premier League bosses and manager sharing the very same sentiment as him, only just staying silent and refusing to sign African players without mentioning how big factor the AFCON unavailabilities are.

And that's the issue, the idea that there are more reasonable dates. It's based on having no clue, nor care about what happens on a different continent.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Next we’re not employing women unless they agree to not having kids?

This is a comparison between "creating more people", which is literally the most important thing we need to do for society to continue existing, and kicking a ball around.

 

[SilentWitness]

Yeah, but I think it's rather a cultural/PR difference than anything having real influence on recruitment policy. De Laurentiis says this because he doesn't give a single feck about whether media will consider it racist and he probably thinks he can have any influence on moving AFCON to more reasonable dates. You'll have a few Premier League bosses and manager sharing the very same sentiment as him, only just staying silent and refusing to sign African players without mentioning how big factor the AFCON unavailabilities are.

That shows his ignorance to the topic.

 

[TsuWave]

This is a comparison between "creating more people", which is literally the most important thing we need to do for society to continue existing, and kicking a ball around.

I know you think you said something there, but this is such a moronic post. fecking hell

 

[stevoc]

It's not a matter of temperature, temps are fairly even in most of Africa. The issue is that what is considered late spring and summer in Europe is monsoon season in large parts of Africa, there is a very high risk of rescheduling games unless they want to play water polo.

Understandable could be fun to watch though.

 

[AjaxCunian]

I agree on the idea that it's somewhat similar but it actually makes things simpler. Clubs will definitely discriminate a player that is guaranteed to be injured for a sustained period of time every other year. That player is likely to get worse contract offers and cheaper transfer fees offers.

Guaranteed to be injured? Or guaranteed to be unavailable?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I know you think you said something there, but this is such a moronic post. fecking hell

You posted a slippery slope argument, which is typically accepted as a fallacy. Yours was particularly shameless since you went for a totally over-the-top example.

The answer to whether "not hiring women because they're pregnant" would be "what's next" is a simple "no, it wouldn't."

 

[horsechoker]

Considering the amount of talent Africa produces, clubs will be missing out if they ignore African players due to AFCON.

 

[hobbers]

They can sign or not sign whoever they like. I bet most clubs will have a similar view and will only sign exceptional players from Africa.

For all we know this might be partly why United aren't interested in Sangare, or why we initially turned down the chance to sign Mane.

 

[kouroux]

Yeah, but I think it's rather a cultural/PR difference than anything having real influence on recruitment policy. De Laurentiis says this because he doesn't give a single feck about whether media will consider it racist and he probably thinks he can have any influence on moving AFCON to more reasonable dates. You'll have a few Premier League bosses and manager sharing the very same sentiment as him, only just staying silent and refusing to sign African players without mentioning how big factor the AFCON unavailabilities are.

The AFCON has been place for decades and PL teams have been signing African players for a long time. What the Napoli said won't move the needle in either direction

 

[TsuWave]

You posted a slippery slope argument, which is typically accepted as a fallacy. Yours was particularly shameless since you went for a totally over-the-top example.

The answer to whether "not hiring women because they're pregnant" would be "what's next" is a simple "no, it wouldn't."

I know you think you’re saying something - but fecking hell.

 

[pcaming]

I feel like this is one of those things you just do silently and not say out loud like an idiot. I presume that Afcon is played in January due to better weather conditions, or am I mistaken? It’s an important competition and the players desire to participate should be respected.

Why is it every 2 years though, rather than the typical 4?

 

[JPRouve]

Guaranteed to be injured? Or guaranteed to be unavailable?

Guaranteed to be injured. I used the example of an injury because injury prone players are discriminated for the their unavailability.

 

[Lay]

Regarding SAF. When we signed Djemba x2, he was actually in decent form until the AFCON came around. He came back a tired player who was playing poorly. SAF mentioned this too as to why his form dipped

He was also shite

 

[Abraxas]

There's nothing wrong or racist about it. Losing a player for a chunk of time every 2 years is a little too often to be entirely happy with when you're talking about investing tens of millions. Even more so if they become a key player.

Personally, I would not go for such a policy as I think if they're good enough they're still going to make a huge contribution, so it feels like shooting yourself in the foot to limit your talent pool.

 

[maniak]

Except that he does say if they pledge not to take part in Afcon it's all fine and dandy. That's under their control. Harsh, but what it boils down to.

A woman pledging not to have children would also be under their control, but no one in their right mind would say an employer requiring it wasn't discriminating.

 

[devilish]

I’m sure the whole of Africa and it’s footballers are now devastated that African footballers can no longer play for the great club of Napoli.

They should be because its something many clubs and managers are annoyed about and seem to factor in when signing players. SAF used to complain about it as well.

 

[Red Star One]

A woman pledging not to have children would also be under their control, but no one in their right mind would say an employer requiring it wasn't discriminating.

"You don't get the job unless you pledge not to get pregnant and not to have children"
"You don't get the job unless you pledge not to skip a large chunk of a season participating in an international tournament"
"You don't get the job unless you pledge not to do drugs and drink alcohol, even if it's your passion"
"You don't get the job unless you pledge not to give our confidential data to competitors"
Are these all same discriminatory practices for you? Because to me the pregnant women argument doesn't hold here, it's clear discrimination - unlike other expectations employer can have from his employee.

 

[Abraxas]

This pregnancy comparison makes no sense at all. You're comparing a biological imperative with kicking a ball around in a particular tournament that has been arranged in a certain manner. Very strained logic, complete mental gymnastics.

It's more akin to having a number of key employees that are able to take an extra month or so holiday every two years on full pay. Many employers would not be thrilled at the prospect, but would be likely to do it for exceptional candidates of course. Which is exactly where nearly all clubs land. If Napoli want to cut their nose off to spite their face, it's perhaps silly, it's not unethical.

 

[maniak]

"You don't get the job unless you pledge not to get pregnant and not to have children"
"You don't get the job unless you pledge not to skip a large chunk of a season participating in an international tournament"
"You don't get the job unless you pledge not to do drugs and drink alcohol, even if it's your passion"
"You don't get the job unless you pledge not to give our confidential data to competitors"
Are these all same discriminatory practices for you? Because to me the pregnant women argument doesn't hold here, it's clear discrimination - unlike other expectations employer can have from his employee.

I don't know what the last 2 have anything to do with this but ok...

Your argument would be valid if the player was choosing to go to the afcon in the middle of the season. But the player has no control over the scheduling, the same way a pregnant woman has no control over when to have the child. If the baby is going to be born in March, then that's the way it is, it's biology. If the Afcon is in the middle of the european season, then that's the way it is, the player didn't choose it.

Saying he can reject participating is like saying a woman can have an abortion to avoid skipping work.

They are both cruel and target people who have no control over the circumstances.

 

[maniak]

This pregnancy comparison makes no sense at all. You're comparing a biological imperative with kicking a ball around in a particular tournament that has been arranged in a certain manner. Very strained logic, complete mental gymnastics.

The point is about individual control. If a women gets pregnant they have no control over what happens next, if an african player is called to play in the afcon, they have no control over when it's played. Why should they be punished for it?

 

[Hawks2008]

I guess it's his prerogative, pretty dumb to rule out a whole continent of people as viable footballers for your club though.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Guaranteed to be injured. I used the example of an injury because injury prone players are discriminated for the their unavailability.

Oh, I get it now. That seems likely.

 

[Abraxas]

The point is about individual control. If a women gets pregnant they have no control over what happens next, if an african player is called to play in the afcon, they have no control over when it's played. Why should they be punished for it?

I don't think it is about individual control. It's about what requires protection and why. It's about pregnancy being a biological imperative for the human race to flourish and the other being optional participation at a football tournament that the African federations are wholly responsible for organising. Apples and oranges, I think.

 

[JPRouve]

Why don't European leagues take a break between mid-December to late February?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I don't think it is about individual control. It's about what requires protection and why. It's about pregnancy being a biological imperative for the human race to flourish and the other being optional participation at a football tournament that the African federations are wholly responsible for organising. Apples and oranges, I think.

Of course it isn't directly comparable.

Within the context of football, however, this is something an individual only has a limited amount of control over: basically, that individual has to refrain from representing their country in a major international tournament in order to be interesting as an employee. In other words, that individual has to give up something that is potentially very important to them (and not just as individuals - they are representing their countries, to many people that goes well beyond the sport itself).

Comparing that to taking a month long vacation (see above) is even more apples and oranges than the pregnancy analogy.

 

[hellhunter]

Why don't European leagues take a break between mid-December to late February?

United was pioneering this last season