Newcastle owners sanction the murder of 7 men for sit-in protests

[moses]

You're also talking rubbish, honestly.

The excuse of "they have a different culture than us" has always existed. Do I really need to dig up posts in the Current Events forum to prove this?

There hasn't been an 18 months tsunami of having respect for Saudi Arabia's culture, unless you only found out about Saudi Arabia 18 months ago and only view world news through a sports prism. And if that's the case, it's no wonder you and others think there's a grand conspiracy by a powerful sovereign nation to get residents of Newcastle to defend it's horrendous actions online, by buying Newcastle. I'm just being consistent in saying the idea is absolutely insane for many reasons, chief amongst them being, the influence you say they seek to get through sports... THEY ALREADY HAVE IT! Proof? Read The Guardian or CNN or any other major news outlet. Or check the wiki of UK Saudi Arabia relations.

Firstly you can't make up my definition of what sports washing is and then argue against it. Their money is influence. That's not what sports washing is. Maybe it's because you don't understand it, you can't see it? .

On here in the last 18 months, there has been a huge upsurge in the respect their culture argument, and accusations of racism when criticising them. I have been involved in human rights activism for years and that is very new to me personally. I have never been called a racist when active about human rights. You can disagree, but you can do it without the pass-agg insults.

Go have a bath a wash whatever irritant is up your ass out, and have a nice day.

 

[stevoc]

Who had Whataboutism on redcafe bingo?

Me, thanks for obliging.

 

[Fortitude]

This topic a talking point on any Newcastle forums?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

On here in the last 18 months, there has been a huge upsurge in the respect their culture argument, and accusations of racism when criticising them.

Undoubtedly.

The specific idea that being critical of Qatar (as the WC host initially, now - of course - as the possible new owner of United) has something to do with racism is new. It is an objectively new phenomenon, and even if one refuses to identify it as "sportswashing", it seems very much disingenuous to dismiss it.

 

[united_99]

Why?
Qatar has nothing to do with Saudi Arabia.

Phew. Good to know Qatar respects human rights so much more than Saudi Arabia.

 

[mu4c_20le]

It’s not murder though is it. It’s the death penalty for a rule they broke. I’m not saying it’s right. But I’ve never heard of other countries committing murder for the death penalty.

Good grief, what do you think murder is?

 

[jm99]

The whole concept of sportswashing is kind of strange. People see man city and say they're a great team, does anyone say UAE are amazing. Virtually every time anything positive about Newcastle comes up, Saudi Arabia and their human right record are invariably mentioned, that doesn't really seem like the aim of sportswashing tbh, having more people talk about the crimes your country has committed. It's more about soft power and having a diversified portfolio beyond oil rather than any attempt and mending reputation, at least to my mind, because of the amount of negative publicity that always comes with an oil state owning a club

 

[kouroux]

If these people can buy a football club who exactly is not allowed to?

Russians and their affiliates

 

[Conor]

The whole concept of sportswashing is kind of strange. People see man city and say they're a great team, does anyone say UAE are amazing. Virtually every time anything positive about Newcastle comes up, Saudi Arabia and their human right record are invariably mentioned, that doesn't really seem like the aim of sportswashing tbh, having more people talk about the crimes your country has committed. It's more about soft power and having a diversified portfolio beyond oil rather than any attempt and mending reputation, at least to my mind, because of the amount of negative publicity that always comes with an oil state owning a club

You don't seem to understand the intended targets of sportswashing, it's not really joe soap the PL fan.

 

[kouroux]

Yeah there almost seems to be some kind of rejoicing going on here over a tragic event and using it as some kind of point scoring exercise and it’s really quite ugly. The first page is almost entirely “jokes and parody”

Well said

 

[MDFC Manager]

Don't ask me to explain how that works on the details plane - I can't, I have no idea exactly how they intend to make money from this, but it seems likely to me that this is their motivation (not dick swinging but something more traditionally capitalist, let's say).

Think it's pretty easy. City sold a stake, PSG are looking to do the same. The valuation of their investments has soared more than they pumped in.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

People see man city and say they're a great team, does anyone say UAE are amazing.

They don't need people to say they're "amazing" (that doesn't figure into the scheme at all). They only need to be associated with something millions of people are interested in, spend time, money and clicks on...and so forth.

Even the most basic concept of "sportswashing" doesn't imply that, say, UAE expect people with so-called "Western" values to actually embrace their own values (with regard to women, the LGBT+ community or whatever).

 

[Rood]

Yeah but have you ever thought that the English government is no better, Ineos are sportswashing and that the press only care when it's United.

Yeah, sure. But the UK used to beat up kids and execute 'em too.

Not to mention the iPhones and the whatnot.

Hypocrisy of the highest order to even mention this, to be honest.

Embarrassing to come in a thread about a sad story like this and the first page is filled with this type of pathetic, straw man, point scoring idiocy

Thankfully it has been posted now. Otherwise how would we be aware of this type of issues. Eye opening. I am sure this will motivate a lot of Redcafe posters to change their vote from Qatar to Ineos.

I guess it might if you are too thick to realise that Saudi Arabia and Qatar are 2 different countries with very different attitudes to things like the death penalty

I agree that it's good that this kind of horrific story gets extra exposure though, probably would have gone unnoticed by the majority of football fans a few years ago

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Embarrassing to come in a thread about a sad story like this and the first page is filled with this type of pathetic, straw man, point scoring idiocy

Yeah, this has been addressed already, but thank you for adding your impeccably objective take on it (as you always do).

 

[Cassidy]

Yeah, this has been addressed already, but thank you for adding your impeccably objective take on it (as you always do).

Guess it ok because it was “addressed already”

 

[bosnian_red]

Can't wait for our club to be attached to things like this

 

[Wumminator]

Embarrassing to come in a thread about a sad story like this and the first page is filled with this type of pathetic, straw man, point scoring idiocy

When you read this thread yon will feel embarrassed but I don’t think you’re fully grasping why.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Guess it ok because it was “addressed already”

It was, though, from my perspective (he specifically quoted me). I have already said that I acknowledge the problematic nature of posting jokes in this thread.

 

[bosnian_red]

Immoral to you maybe and us here in civilised societies but that’s how they do things. Just as they have the death penalties in many US states. People really need to keep out the politics of other countries.

What the feck? When the policies of other countries is to kill innocent people for doing nothing but existing and being different, that's exactly when the rest of the world should be standing up and defending these people. Otherwise you just encourage genocide and ruthless dictators commit ethnic cleansing.

 

[bosnian_red]

And people wonder "what is sports washing" when you have some people in this thread defending this in some weird ass way. Or people attacking Delaney on twitter for simply reporting the news. Just because a potential fecking owner might spend some money on some players. It's beyond fecked up. You get an army of literally immoral idiots online to just drown out reason and logic.

 

[The Firestarter]

Can I find at least some solace at the fact that's not the lot that bought us? Can I feck....

 

[Gehrman]

And people wonder "what is sports washing" when you have some people in this thread defending this in some weird ass way. Or people attacking Delaney on twitter for simply reporting the news. Just because a potential fecking owner might spend some money on some players. It's beyond fecked up. You get an army of literally immoral idiots online to just drown out reason and logic.

I think the objective from the owners is simply having a prestige playtoy. But its sad though how some can try and defend stuff like this.

 

[DixieDean]

And people wonder "what is sports washing" when you have some people in this thread defending this in some weird ass way. Or people attacking Delaney on twitter for simply reporting the news. Just because a potential fecking owner might spend some money on some players. It's beyond fecked up. You get an army of literally immoral idiots online to just drown out reason and logic.

Yep. It's so sad to see. Chance of trophies and the whataboutism's come out to play!

 

[bosnian_red]

Yep. It's so sad to see. Chance of trophies and the whataboutism's come out to play!

Oh but Ineos is hurting the environment as a company and Ratcliffe influenced people to vote for Brexit which more than half of the country did anyway! Which in turn has made many people's lives worse which has indirectly caused more deaths! So it's the same!

*An actual argument somebody on here said to me

 

[moses]

I guess it might if you are too thick to realise that Saudi Arabia and Qatar are 2 different countries with very different attitudes to things like the death penalty

Honest question, would it make a difference to you? I'm just trying to see if you have a line that can't be crossed.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Honest question, would it make a difference to you? I'm just trying to see if you have a line that can't be crossed.

Hope he answers it, he's been asked similar questions before.

Same-sex intercourse is a capital crime under current Qatari law (which is partially Sharia law, heavily influenced by Sharia). As is apostasy.

And no - there is no undeniable evidence that it has actually been carried out in recent times. So, that's something - I guess *. In general, though, it would seem that a state that formally considers same-sex intercourse and apostasy as capital crimes is...yes, what? On its way to better things? Give it 40 years and presto? No need to make a big deal out of it?

* Gay and non-binary people who have been abused and beaten by the authorities will surely appreciate that they probably won't literally lose their heads, just be considered abnormal and undesirable.

 

[moses]

I think the objective from the owners is simply having a prestige playtoy. But its sad though how some can try and defend stuff like this.

Prestige is a huge part of it. Sportswashing is not actually brainwashing, it's just the glow of association and the associated practical gains.

 

[moses]

Guess it ok because it was “addressed already”

It was addressed already in a more even handed way too. Both 'sides' were being dicks. It's telling when people don't see that. The fact there sides at all is baffling. Surely this is one thing we can all say is abhorrent?

 

[Cassidy]

It was addressed already in a more even handed way too. Both 'sides' were being dicks. It's telling when people don't see that. The fact there sides at all is baffling. Surely this is one thing we can all say is abhorrent?

Not sure what you’re even going on about with sides. The point I was making was whether or not it was “addressed” it was abhorrent.

 

[Rood]

Honest question, would it make a difference to you? I'm just trying to see if you have a line that can't be crossed.

Yes it makes a difference.

I've been asked before and I said that there are regimes that I would have an issue with on an ownership level. However unless they did something extreme (eg ban gays from OT), I would support the 11 players on the pitch regardless.

I will also point out that Newcastle United are owned by the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia, whereas there is no state entity bidding to buy Manchester United.

 

[moses]

Yes it makes a difference.

I've been asked before and I said that there are regimes that I would have an issue with on an ownership level. However unless they did something extreme (eg ban gays from OT), I would support the 11 players on the pitch regardless.

I will also point out that Newcastle United are owned by the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia, whereas there is no state entity bidding to buy Manchester United.

Fair enough.

On the bold.
Let's not bring your not mitigation into another thread. That assertion and the socio political and economic structure has been dealt with in numerous other threads.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I will also point out that Newcastle United are owned by the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia, whereas there is no state entity bidding to buy Manchester United.

There obviously is, but...fine: let's not do that thing again.

If it were proven beyond any doubt that Qatar (the state) are behind the bid, would you then be against it?

(And if so - why?)

 

[Rood]

Fair enough.

On the bold.
Let's not bring your not mitigation into another thread. That assertion and the socio political and economic structure has been dealt with in numerous other threads.

Well ok but I'd say that bit is actually the most relevant to this particular thread !

 

[moses]

Not sure what you’re even going on about with sides. The point I was making was whether or not it was “addressed” it was abhorrent.

There were disingenuous posts from more than one perspective.

Rood was as one eyed as ever in my opinion.

 

[Rood]

There obviously is, but...fine: let's not do that thing again.

If it were proven beyond any doubt that Qatar (the state) are behind the bid, would you then be against it?

(And if so - why?)

No

 

[Rood]

There were disingenuous posts from more than one perspective.

Rood was as one eyed as ever in my opinion.

I haven't yet read the whole thread, is it worth reading? Or more of the same as Page 1?

 

[Cassidy]

There were disingenuous posts from more than one perspective.

Rood was as one eyed as ever in my opinion.

I responded to the op and commented on something they said. I didnt comment on what others posters said in the post.
It was not relevant to the point I was making

 

[moses]

Well ok but I'd say that bit is actually the most relevant to this particular thread !

No. This thread is not about Manchester United or Qatar.

 

[moses]

I responded to the op and commented on something they said. I didnt comment on what others posters said in the post.
It was not relevant to the point I was making

OK.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

No

Thank you.

(I don't mean to target you individually with this thing, but you are a prolific poster on here and I think it's important to know where you're coming from.)