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altodevil

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Yeah, I was listening to a podcast last off season and one of the topic was how it would be difficult for some WR to get into it particularly when they played in the same era than clearly better players in their position, iirc Steve Smith Jr and Megatron were the names that started the conversation.
Sharpe probably should be an hall of famer because his records are impressive but when you are sandwiched between the likes of Jerry Rice or Cris Carter and also have a short career, things can get difficult. And he doesn't have a ring to compensate.
God I hate wins and championships as indicators, he was one receiver on a 53-man team. It shouldn't matter, everyone could see he was head and shoulders above everyone bar Rice.
 

JPRouve

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God I hate wins and championships as indicators, he was one receiver on a 53-man team. It shouldn't matter, everyone could see he was head and shoulders above everyone bar Rice.
I agree but whether we like it or not it influences how someone is perceived, how his career is perceived and in subjective nominations like the Hall of Fame perception is key.
 

Tiber

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You can celebrate now @Tiber
Yea, a very positive step in the right direction.

Will be interesting to see if we make a bold move and try to sign someone like Bill O'Brien or a bright college coach (I loved what the Panthers did with Joe Brady last year) or just promote from within.

We have a TE coach called Godsey who was a Flores hire. I don't know much about him but I believe he was Texans OC for 1 year a while ago. Mid way through the season Flores had him coach the QBs on the sideline in place of Gailey's actual QB coach. So I assume he is a serious candidate. I admit its not quite as appealing as Bill O'Brien would be (who worked with Flo in NE) I know BOB went a bit power crazy with the Texans but the guy can coach offense.
 

RobinLFC

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He was the brain behind Burrow/Chase/Jefferson in 2019, right?

Didn't see anything special from the Giants offense this season but it's the Giants. Willing to give this guy a chance.
 

Tiber

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He was the brain behind Burrow/Chase/Jefferson in 2019, right?

Didn't see anything special from the Giants offense this season but it's the Giants. Willing to give this guy a chance.
Isn't he the Panthers OC? Jason Garret is at the Giants
 

Organic Potatoes

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He was the brain behind Burrow/Chase/Jefferson in 2019, right?

Didn't see anything special from the Giants offense this season but it's the Giants. Willing to give this guy a chance.
Yes, and did alright with Carolina this year. Only 31 years old I think and interviewing with everyone...rock star.
 

RobinLFC

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Isn't he the Panthers OC? Jason Garret is at the Giants
Right! Didn't know why I thought the Giants, maybe because of Joe Judge.

Yes, and did alright with Carolina this year. Only 31 years old I think and interviewing with everyone...rock star.
I'd rather be a year too early on him than a year too late and watch him succeed with someone else. Carolina had two 1,000 yards receivers this season (with Bridgewater no less), with Samuel also over 1,000 all-purpose yards on offense. Not bad.
 

Tiber

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We hired Flores before he was even a DC. I remember being very uneasy about this.

But hiring him a year early was definitely the right call. If we hadn't got slaughtered by Buffalo he would have won coach of the year

We also tried to hire the Texans new GM years ago, he was offered the job and turned us down to stay in NE. We ended up with Dennis Hickey and Tannenbaum *sigh*
 

MrMarcello

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So what is everyone's thinking on the HOF finalists? Surely Manning, Woodson and Megatron are locks right? After that, its a little more tricky, although, as a Raider, if coach Flores doesn't get in this time, its beyond a travesty. I'd personally vote in Reggie Wayne & Zach Thomas, but you could definitely make a case for all of them.
Not sold on Wayne as a HOFer despite the gaudy numbers, Holt did more in less time.
Zach was every bit as good as Urlacher who got in.
Butler and Faneca are worthy shouts for me though I'm boycotting any FS/SS getting in until Darren Woodson gets his rightful call (vet committee will have to correct this failure on the voters).
 

JPRouve

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Hannah is in, played in the 60s and 70s if memory serves.
I meant best candidates for the "best guard ever" title. Hannah is an HOFer since 99. Interestingly I have heard people mention Zach Martin has an all time great, you think that he is going to be a first ballot?
 

MrMarcello

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I meant best candidates for the "best guard ever" title. Hannah is an HOFer since 99. Interestingly I have heard people mention Zach Martin has an all time great, you think that he is going to be a first ballot?
Dunno. He's been in the top 3-5 at his position since his rookie year, arguably the best. OL positions are difficult to gauge without the gaudy/standout stats other positions accumulate. I know OL have new age metrics that help display one's dominance, or lack of, but still a tough prospect for HOF voters. Need to have been a dominate player and a name player. Martin has both but he needs a few more top class seasons to pad that HOF candidacy. If his career ended now he'd be another Boselli - too short a career to get in most likely. Same applies to Travis Frederick, arguably the best center of his generation but the injury ended his career too short.
 

RobinLFC

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Bieniemy now has interviewed for the HC job at the Jags, Jets, Chargers, Atlanta and Detroit.

So basically, with every team looking for a HC except the Texans. Because of course.
 

RobinLFC

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Somewhere, someplace, Bill O'Brien is telling his wife that he'd get at least a second rounder for him.
 

Tiber

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Somewhere, someplace, Bill O'Brien is telling his wife that he'd get at least a second rounder for him.
Would be ironic if he does end up as Miami OC. He would be reunited with the first and second round picks he traded away.

I wasn't sold on the Tunsil trade a year ago, but its crazy to end up with the third pick.
 

Organic Potatoes

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Somewhere, someplace, Bill O'Brien is telling his wife that he'd get at least a second rounder for him.
That would be nuts. Having said that, if the return haul rebuilds you and he goes to a team ready to win outside of QB it could work for both parties.

Colts intra-division is out of the question so that leaves, hmmm...
 

RobinLFC

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That would be nuts. Having said that, if the return haul rebuilds you and he goes to a team ready to win outside of QB it could work for both parties.

Colts intra-division is out of the question so that leaves, hmmm...
You’d think but even not sure about that, we let Vrabel join them too who’s an infinitely better coach than what we had at the time.
 

Raoul

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He was the brain behind Burrow/Chase/Jefferson in 2019, right?

Didn't see anything special from the Giants offense this season but it's the Giants. Willing to give this guy a chance.
He was the Co-OC and WR coach at LSU for one year and was at Carolina for one year. Not sure how this translates into NFL head coaching material, but then again, Arizona hired Kingsbury just after he got fired at his college job, so anything can happen.
 

ha_rooney

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People in charge at Houston really do a great job annoying their best players.
 

RobinLFC

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Explanations from Schefter and Rapoport are quite damning, they've made an absolute meal out of it. You don't even need to be a great manager or businessman to understand what they could/should have done differently. Even if Caseiro was their guy from the beginning, it's not that hard to keep up appearances and appease your QB to just let him think he had influence in the decision and has a good standing within the organization.

His HC choice with Bieniemy was excellent too, I'm gonna be so disappointed if it's going to be someone like Marvin Lewis in the end.

Honestly, Watson deserves to be traded at this point. I'd be tempted to send him to the Jags for the #1 pick and some change to rebuild the roster.
 

HTG

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I‘m amazed it took Watson so long. That franchise is a dumpster fire and I really hope he gets away.
 

Meller

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Straight swap with Goff? He would be great if you want to tank and get good picks!
 

MrMarcello

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Explanations from Schefter and Rapoport are quite damning, they've made an absolute meal out of it. You don't even need to be a great manager or businessman to understand what they could/should have done differently. Even if Caseiro was their guy from the beginning, it's not that hard to keep up appearances and appease your QB to just let him think he had influence in the decision and has a good standing within the organization.

His HC choice with Bieniemy was excellent too, I'm gonna be so disappointed if it's going to be someone like Marvin Lewis in the end.

Honestly, Watson deserves to be traded at this point. I'd be tempted to send him to the Jags for the #1 pick and some change to rebuild the roster.
Problem with trading QBs on massive contracts is the salary cap ramifications.

The Jags are arguably better off paying Lawrence on rookie contract dollars for 3-5 years and using that precious cap space to acquire top tier talents. Make a run in those first 3-5 years and maybe strike gold like Seattle did with Wilson (1-1 in SBs), or the Rams with Goff (despite the SB loss), or the Chiefs with Mahomes, and so forth. Eventually, they'll need to pay him but if he's as good as advertised they need to take advantage immediately. Watson is clearly a top tier QB and a proven commodity but he'd consume a large percentage of the cap going forward, barring a new contract from the Jags in this scenario (and Watson does not need to do that but could if he wanted out of Houston). There's also the scenario that Lawrence could play the Eli/Elway card on Houston which might factor into trading away a top tier QB.

I'm not sure how all guaranteed monies work in trades. I know prior bonuses paid out are charged to the losing club but dunno about guaranteed salaries. If Houston is on the hook for $73.7M ($67.14M remaining) of that contract even if traded, the Jags should explore it. They'd get a top 10 player, arguably top 5, at his position for $15M* total through 2023 (can opt out in 2024) or $79.4M* through 2025. Houston would be wrecked on the 2021 cap, and possibly 2022 depending on the rules IRT spreading dollars over two years.

* These numbers are taken from the contract totals minus the dead cap Houston would assume if all guaranteed money is charged to their cap. However, if only paid out dollars count as guaranteed for cap purposes, the Jags would consume additional monies minus the $27M signing bonus Houston paid out and all 2020 compensation, from my understanding. The Jags then appear to be on the hook for $82.54M through 2023 or $146.54M through 2025 in this hypothetical, still more manageable than others on $30M plus deals. The Jags have around $85M in projected cap space for 2021.

Edit: Forgot to link the contract. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/deshaun-watson-21753/
 
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Rado_N

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Watson’s contract is big but will probably look like a bit of a bargain in a few years as they continue to grow.
 
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