I agree. But the Glazers just sign the cheques. They don’t know what they are doing but the people doing the day to day are awful. The CEO still probably calls Woodward for advice. The DoF need to go back and joint Moyes whilst are manager can’t identify a player or pick a starting 11 to save his life. It’s all a shambles but the buck stops on the field.
NO manager can fix this!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Without a new ownership and bringing in DOF he can work with it would be no good.
Maybe the title should be: a few managers could put a band-aid on this
Depends what you intend to fix. There are negative decisions the manager is making that are solely on him.
I refuse to believe there isnt a manager out there who can come in and get a better performance out of these players than Erik is currently getting out of them, the current performances are crap and getting worse by the game so if we want to stay in all comps we need to sack him asap
but again that’s an ownership issue for me, the owners are appointing the wrong people in the board room and the structure is all wrong above the manager, which is due to the people above the manager.
with previous managers I would have agreed with your final comment about the buck stopping on the pitch but now, it’s gone beyond that and it’s runs far deeper than the manager in my view. If we change the manager we’ll be back here again in 12 months, I’d almost guarantee it.
Yep. For example, the Glazers appointed Woodward because he was expert at commercial deals, not the football business that's for certain. That says it all. They saw Utd as a mark, and that's what they've done. Compare it to City – huge investment to basically copy Barcelona, but with unlimited funds. It really isn't difficult to see the difference. City was bought for prestige, Utd to leech.
Well a new manager is not going to fix the stadium or the board is he but he sure as shit has a chance of getting us playing better and having some fight about us.
People still blaming the Glazers are insane, did Joel Glazer take Hojlund off tonight ? ETH is out of his depth, it’s blindingly obvious!
That's exactly what Ten Hag did last season. The club will continue to struggle in the pitch until the Glazer's go or allow Ratcliffe control of the sporting side.
I refuse to believe that it requires a wholesale club restructure and change of ownership to get a team playing good football consistently. All it takes is a good manager. Period. Granted it is the club brass that appoints the manager so they have a significant influence on on-pitch performance but that does not mean that a wholesale club restructure is required. As with any other club, we are simply one great managerial appointment from all the backroom issues fading into the background. Till that happens, you have to keep trying to find the one. That's just how it works. There aren't many Peps or Fergies walking around. Even Real Madrid, Bayern and Barcelona have gotten managerial decisions wrong.
We won back-to-back-to-back titles, 5 titles in 7 years and got to 3 CL finals in 5 years under these very owners. In fact, when we got to those finals,we were in a far worse financial situation. The debt load was much heavier and we were unable to do much in the transfer market. Yet we played well most of the time and continued to compete and win. Because we had a world class manager. Not because the club was better run.
When Arsenal were underachieving, we used to hear about backroom issues with Kroenke and and Gazidis and Edu and all those guys. Now that they are contending again, how often do you hear about those issues?
We won back-to-back-to-back titles, 5 titles in 7 years and got to 3 CL finals in 5 years under these very owners. In fact, when we got to those finals,we were in a far worse financial situation. The debt load was much heavier and we were unable to do much in the transfer market. Yet we played well most of the time and continued to compete and win. Because we had a world class manager. Not because the club was better run.
When Arsenal were underachieving, we used to hear about backroom issues with Kroenke and and Gazidis and Edu and all those guys. Now that they are contending again, how often do you hear about those issues?
I’m anti-Galazer as you get but EtH hasn’t helped himself here. If you played his United career thus far over 10 times, this is a middling version at best.
Post League Cup Final performances have been terrible.
Post League Cup Final performances have been terrible.
I can’t see anything being done regarding potential new managers until this supposed INEOS arrangement takes place. Although once that eventually goes through and knowing the club, it’ll take another 6 months before any new senior officials get appointed probably.
United make the public sector look fast and efficient.
United make the public sector look fast and efficient.
This 100%. It all starts with the manager. If we had pep for the last seven years, we would have won titles and a CL.
Genuine question then, who would people replace Ten Hag with?
That’s a good idea for a thread topic!
Ah I'm not allowed cos of this weird newbie system thing or whatever it isThat’s a good idea for a thread topic!
Stop with this nonsense. A manager that knows good football gets his teams to play good football within weeks. It's not about the "profile" of the players in this squad. Many good managers have implemented their styles with very low budgets.
He still has been unconvincing in the following departments:
1) Hasn't been tactically spot on once during any big game
2) There is no style of play
3) He isn't making the obvious changes during the games
4) He is not playing the players in their positions
5) He has his favourites
6) Throwing players under the bus publicly (please don't tell me that you agree with him because what he said was true)
7) Expert at getting bashed by any half decent opposition
8) We see no reaction from this team after a bashing
9) He lacks the charisma of a top manager
He still has been unconvincing in the following departments:
1) Hasn't been tactically spot on once during any big game
2) There is no style of play
3) He isn't making the obvious changes during the games
4) He is not playing the players in their positions
5) He has his favourites
6) Throwing players under the bus publicly (please don't tell me that you agree with him because what he said was true)
7) Expert at getting bashed by any half decent opposition
8) We see no reaction from this team after a bashing
9) He lacks the charisma of a top manager
We are rotten on so many levels we are in free fall at this point and could go as long as Liverpool did in the wilderness
A proper DOF needs to be appointed. A clear vision needs to be put in place, not just moments FC/ living in the past FC/ individual brilliance FC
The players need to be held to account. I am sick and tired of the same names letting us down time and time again and throwing yet another manager under the bus. It doesn't matter if they stroll around the pitch barely breaking a sweat because they will still collect their obscene wages. Wish we'd do what Tottenham did last season when they got a drubbing and have them reimburse the fans. I'd love to see their contracts. They need performance clauses. They need to be dropped if they aren't performing. Again living in the past relying on their past form.
I was actually excited when ETH was appointed and thought we may have finally struck gold but I've pretty much run out of patience with him. We look as clueless on the pitch as we did with Ole. We are seeing the what do they do in training question start to repeatedly come up. There's no accountability as the same names keep getting picked despite shocking performances. He makes bizarre substitutions. If he has as much say in transfers as we are led to believe, he's potentially signed some duds. Which then links back to the DOF issue. There is no clear style of play. We've been absolute garbage, borderline relegation form, since the league cup win. If anything we are going backwards. Yes we won the last 3 games but the performances were shocking and the wins are papering over the cracks
We can't do simple things right. We misplace passes left right and centre. Which then puts us under pressure. Our players seem to always make the wrong decision, if you want them to pass they're selfish, if you want them to shoot they pass into the opposition's legs. Hojlund looks potentially great but he can't do it alone, we needed an older more experienced striker to share the burden with him. I love his passion but the sad thing is I'm questioning when it'll get knocked out of him and he'll join the others who seemingly don't care as long as they get their massive wages
The decisions against us this season have to be seen to be believed. Yet ETH is too nice and doesn't call them out. I can't stick Klopp but he'd be going beserk. And look how many decisions go Liverpool's way after one of his rants.
Stop with the jobs for boys. We are supposedly a big club, so appoint people with proven experience in the roles you're appointing them to.
The fans are great, and very little criticism can be levelled at them for their commitment but are they too nice? Again it goes back to the players not being held to account. How would Real Madrid fans react to some of the recent "performances"?
Scouting - why are we not signing a balance of established players but also diamonds in the rough and shaping them properly, that cost a fraction of the price. Again linked to the DOF, there's no structure. I'd love new owners but we can't say the Glazers haven't spent, but has most of it been wasted? They're so all about profit, I'm very surprised their financial advisor hasn't said to them to put a DOF in
We act like a small club with small club mentality - have we become a small club in all but name?
There are so many things which need addressing, ETH isn't the only problem but my belief in him has nearly gone, he's got to the point of no return it's starting to feel all too similar to Ole where he really wasn't helping himself with the majority of his decisions. But who else is available?
It's really sad to see what our once great club has become, I watched Beckham's documentary recently and the football was so exciting to watch, now it's just dull and dreary and I'm almost starting to feel numb to our losses. Most of the players don't care so I'm starting to think why should I? I will always support United but the whole club is rotten to the core with so many layers that need fixing
A proper DOF needs to be appointed. A clear vision needs to be put in place, not just moments FC/ living in the past FC/ individual brilliance FC
The players need to be held to account. I am sick and tired of the same names letting us down time and time again and throwing yet another manager under the bus. It doesn't matter if they stroll around the pitch barely breaking a sweat because they will still collect their obscene wages. Wish we'd do what Tottenham did last season when they got a drubbing and have them reimburse the fans. I'd love to see their contracts. They need performance clauses. They need to be dropped if they aren't performing. Again living in the past relying on their past form.
I was actually excited when ETH was appointed and thought we may have finally struck gold but I've pretty much run out of patience with him. We look as clueless on the pitch as we did with Ole. We are seeing the what do they do in training question start to repeatedly come up. There's no accountability as the same names keep getting picked despite shocking performances. He makes bizarre substitutions. If he has as much say in transfers as we are led to believe, he's potentially signed some duds. Which then links back to the DOF issue. There is no clear style of play. We've been absolute garbage, borderline relegation form, since the league cup win. If anything we are going backwards. Yes we won the last 3 games but the performances were shocking and the wins are papering over the cracks
We can't do simple things right. We misplace passes left right and centre. Which then puts us under pressure. Our players seem to always make the wrong decision, if you want them to pass they're selfish, if you want them to shoot they pass into the opposition's legs. Hojlund looks potentially great but he can't do it alone, we needed an older more experienced striker to share the burden with him. I love his passion but the sad thing is I'm questioning when it'll get knocked out of him and he'll join the others who seemingly don't care as long as they get their massive wages
The decisions against us this season have to be seen to be believed. Yet ETH is too nice and doesn't call them out. I can't stick Klopp but he'd be going beserk. And look how many decisions go Liverpool's way after one of his rants.
Stop with the jobs for boys. We are supposedly a big club, so appoint people with proven experience in the roles you're appointing them to.
The fans are great, and very little criticism can be levelled at them for their commitment but are they too nice? Again it goes back to the players not being held to account. How would Real Madrid fans react to some of the recent "performances"?
Scouting - why are we not signing a balance of established players but also diamonds in the rough and shaping them properly, that cost a fraction of the price. Again linked to the DOF, there's no structure. I'd love new owners but we can't say the Glazers haven't spent, but has most of it been wasted? They're so all about profit, I'm very surprised their financial advisor hasn't said to them to put a DOF in
We act like a small club with small club mentality - have we become a small club in all but name?
There are so many things which need addressing, ETH isn't the only problem but my belief in him has nearly gone, he's got to the point of no return it's starting to feel all too similar to Ole where he really wasn't helping himself with the majority of his decisions. But who else is available?
It's really sad to see what our once great club has become, I watched Beckham's documentary recently and the football was so exciting to watch, now it's just dull and dreary and I'm almost starting to feel numb to our losses. Most of the players don't care so I'm starting to think why should I? I will always support United but the whole club is rotten to the core with so many layers that need fixing
Well someone has to and ETH cant do it then he should be replaced. He spent a fortune on wrong players and had 1.5 years with the team.
Maybe EtH is still a ”New Member” and therefore he can’t make more than a couple of changes each season. As long as the leadership and moderators of the club won’t change that he will still be a new member and restricted from major change of the club
Of course there is. But there aren't many of those that will willingly sacrifice 4-5 years of their lives to deal with this circus we've created.
Maybe EtH is still a ”New Member” and therefore he can’t make more than a couple of changes each season. As long as the leadership and moderators of the club won’t change that he will still be a new member and restricted from major change of the club
Our current lot would struggle in the championship.
Majority of the squad needs gutted and may as well bring in a new manager, this one's taking us nowhere!
Majority of the squad needs gutted and may as well bring in a new manager, this one's taking us nowhere!
the lad has a back issue and his minutes need to be managed, Eth has mentioned this a few times. This isnt the stick to beat him with
When?
We all know the Glazers are rotten leeches, but blaming it all on them is too easy and just wrong.
ETH has so far largely failed in the market and he has failed in implementing anything resembling a structure and style on the pitch.
Considering the cost of the squad we are perfoming far, far below what we should. Besides Chelsea, is there any "top team" in the league that look as clueless as us?
ETH has so far largely failed in the market and he has failed in implementing anything resembling a structure and style on the pitch.
Considering the cost of the squad we are perfoming far, far below what we should. Besides Chelsea, is there any "top team" in the league that look as clueless as us?
No manager can fix this... long term but christ it's only the second season and it's already going downhill, even ole and mourinho didn't meltdown in their second seasons
Any new manager will struggle because the squad has been ruined with £400m of players that are barely fit for purpose in the PL.
Of the signings, a new manager would maybe have Hojlund in their best XI if he progresses and that's about it.
Of the signings, a new manager would maybe have Hojlund in their best XI if he progresses and that's about it.
Considering the majority of thr 400m was from last seasons signings that got us champions league football, 2 Cup finals and a trophy in the cabinet. Give your head a wobble ffs.
And to write off new signings and we're in October is equally as stupid.
I'm as worried, angry and unhappy as the next united fan, but sometimes things look worse before they get better.
When we're able to have a settled defence amd midfield for a period of time we will see improvements, but until then, we'll continue to be poor and inconsistent.
However I do agree that even with the issues we have, it's not been good enough but we need to be rational as well.
Nah, no manager can win the title with us in the short run but any half competent manager will have us play better football and gradually improve. We have just consistently hired wrong managers and took too much time to cut our losses.
All big clubs just fire managers who are underperforming and don’t seem to have their team go in the right direction. We don’t need to pretend we are special and above it.
All big clubs just fire managers who are underperforming and don’t seem to have their team go in the right direction. We don’t need to pretend we are special and above it.
So I was in the car listening to talk sport after the game, and a guy on there, dont know his name, said that he had been speaking with one of the coaches a week or so ago. And he wouldn't name him "because it's a private conversation" and proceeded to tell us all the conversation.
It boiled down to this, the coaching staff is NOT allowed to shout at the players. So after a game where everyone plays like utter shit, no one is allowed to call them out for being shit. No one on the coaching staff is allowed to give any player a bollocking.
Then we look towards Pep who is screaming at his players because they only won by 3 goals...
There is a reason that no manager can turn this around, and it's because our players are wrapped in cotton wool. The staff either dont respect the players enough to know that they can take getting shit when they play bad, and so dont train them as hard as they could. Or the players genuinely can't take any harsh words and so will never get pushed to be better. Whichever one it is, it's a problem. IF it's true, it is talk shit after all.
One thing is true though, Rashford will never feel the heat to improve if hes played no matter what. It seems so weird that the ETH we had last year was a no nonsense manger who sat players down when they needed to be sat down, and got rid when they needed to be got rid of. But hes just not the same guy. This guy we have this year is playing favourites. Hes playing people that could be getting a rest, and could be coming on fresh and fit against tired legs. But no. It's the same tired "game plan" over and over again. I get that theres injuries, but come on. The excuses are really starting to mount up now. And none of them are any good.
It boiled down to this, the coaching staff is NOT allowed to shout at the players. So after a game where everyone plays like utter shit, no one is allowed to call them out for being shit. No one on the coaching staff is allowed to give any player a bollocking.
Then we look towards Pep who is screaming at his players because they only won by 3 goals...
There is a reason that no manager can turn this around, and it's because our players are wrapped in cotton wool. The staff either dont respect the players enough to know that they can take getting shit when they play bad, and so dont train them as hard as they could. Or the players genuinely can't take any harsh words and so will never get pushed to be better. Whichever one it is, it's a problem. IF it's true, it is talk shit after all.
One thing is true though, Rashford will never feel the heat to improve if hes played no matter what. It seems so weird that the ETH we had last year was a no nonsense manger who sat players down when they needed to be sat down, and got rid when they needed to be got rid of. But hes just not the same guy. This guy we have this year is playing favourites. Hes playing people that could be getting a rest, and could be coming on fresh and fit against tired legs. But no. It's the same tired "game plan" over and over again. I get that theres injuries, but come on. The excuses are really starting to mount up now. And none of them are any good.
A top manager can fix this. We just haven't had a top manager post Fergie.
ETH is supposed to be a world class coach. He has better players than how the team are playing. Forget about his signings etc ... That is the crux of the matter. He isnt coaching the team well. That is separate from the owners
ETH cant fix this
We got away with it last season thanks to Liverpool, Chelsea and others having terrible seasons and Rashford having a purple patch which no one saw coming. He's now reverted to the Rashford we know.
£70m Casemiro has already fallen off a cliff as many of us expected from such a short sighted signing.
£90m Antony is nowhere near good enough.
Amrabat isn't good enough.
Eriksen was fine as a free transfer but is in the same bracket as Casemiro. Very little use in the future.
Martinez for me is overrated, I don't think many managers would use him for a high line. He doesn't have the pace or physicality for it.
Mount I think is a good player but he plays in the same position as the captain. We had to improve the starting XI this summer and he doesn't.
Hojlund will be useful in the future.
So much money wasted that we could not afford.
Again all those points I agree with you. But even a clock is right twice. We hired the. Eat upcoming manager we was told and his player selection and football ain’t it. He’s had free rein at this job like most managers and he’s failed on his own.
The only issue above him is that they probably won’t know when the right time is to sack him and they didn’t have a strong enough backbone to give him help when he clearly needed it with recruitment.
Disagree on the next 12 months as we will likely have a new CEO and DoF who hopefully have a clue how to do their jobs.
Correct. But to be honest, this looks a lot more like late-stage Emery than early-stage Arteta to me. No attempt to play the kind of football that was promised in the opening press conferences (I remember Emery promising attacking, possession football with a high press and we never saw him attempt anything like it). A squad that is an island of very expensive misfit toys that can't either play the promised expansive football or hunker down and eke out professional results.
After Emery was out, Arteta was hired with a remit from all levels of the club hierarchy to do a complete rebuild with the aim of playing City-style football. There were some bumps along the way, but we stuck with the process. (It also helped that Saka and Martinelli cost a grand total of 6 million pounds between them. Gross spend would be even worse if we hadn't lucked into those two).
You may rue the Carabao Cup and third place finish the same way we rued the EL final under Emery: a false dawn that made you think you were nearly back and just needed to tinker around the edges, when what was really necessary was to take our lumps for a few years and do the complete rebuild.
We did well to win all the big home games and cup final last year without any evidence of number 1.
And Arsenal away would have been a spot on away had Garnacho not been millimetres offside.