NonceUponATimeInEpsteinAndAndyLand

Synco

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I'm arguing that this view has been massively mainstreamed and what is commonly considered believable has significantly expanded with Epstein's death. That many people who formerly believed the powerful didn't/couldn't do these things have had their view changed.

Not that the flat earthers are mainstreamed.
Hm, not sure the effect is that strong. Watergate, all kinds of corruption scandals from FIFA to VW, Iraq WMDs, etc... I'd say the basic idea has been part of mainstream consciousness since a long time, although it's impossible to quantify. Both in rational and prejudiced forms. Just think of the Hollywood & novelists' megahits centered around that topic, that's pretty mainstream in my view.

But I agree that this case is making huge waves and brings the issue to the forefront of public awareness for now. And the conspiracy nuts (who I'd argue are kind of mainstream in the internet age) obviously have a field day. Of course you might be on to something I haven't fully grasped yet.
 

DOTA

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Hm, not sure the effect is that strong. Watergate, all kinds of corruption scandals from FIFA to VW, Iraq WMDs, etc... I'd say the basic idea has been part of mainstream consciousness since a long time, although it's impossible to quantify. Both in rational and prejudiced forms. Just think of the Hollywood & novelists' megahits centered around that topic, that's pretty mainstream in my view.

But I agree that this case is making huge waves and brings the issue to the forefront of public awareness for now. And the conspiracy nuts (who I'd argue are kind of mainstream in the internet age) obviously have a field day. Of course you might be on to something I haven't fully grasped yet.
I feel little desire to argue with this. I feel we're on the same page with different but not drastically different views about what the next one will say.
 

barros

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This just shows Democracy doesn’t exist, the elite covers their tracks and nothing we the deplorable and liberals can do to stop this. The media will lose interest and soon or later the “investigation “ will end.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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I'm arguing that this view has been massively mainstreamed and what is commonly considered believable has significantly expanded with Epstein's death. That many people who formerly believed the powerful didn't/couldn't do these things have had their view changed.

Not that the flat earthers are mainstreamed.
I was just talking about this topic with a friend. "In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. "

My take is that what has been mainstreamed is exactly the most extreme crazy conspiracies (lizard people from the planet Sirius (from V), eating baby brains to be immortal, etc etc) and that is actually encouraged. Its encouraged because it inoculates people against the word "conspiracy" so they are subconsciously less likely to believe all the very real, very mundane conspiracies that regularly go on and rarely get the damnation they deserve. The word itself "conspiracy theorist" has been codified to not actually mean what its etymology is anymore.

Many very real conspiracies went into the chain of events causing the financial crisis - actually many financial crisis are caused by literal conspiracies motivated solely by greed. Trump's finances and those of many real estate developers at that level are riddled with criminal conspiracy. The California energy deregulation was a massive conspiracy from entities like Enron. The Iran-Contra Scandal was a massive, insane conspiracy that still has not received the weight of scrutiny it deserves historically. In Italy you have P2/Propaganda Due conspiracy that reached throughout the power elites in Italy. The tobacco companies hiding and lying about health negatives of smoking was a massive conspiracy. Companies like Halliburton and other defense contractors committing conspiracy via False Claims Act violations that never get covered by corporate media. And that's just the major stuff that everyone knows about but rarely actually realize are massive conspiracies. You have documented human rights violation conspiracies from Western governments, particularly the CIA, you have all kinds of financial conspiracies that most people get too bored to conceptualize (without adding some lizard people) and you have governments like Saudi Arabia conducting assassinations in broad daylight and then having the gall to try to gaslight the entire world about it. And even though all of us know how shady the Khashoggi incident was compare how little that conspiracy was ever covered in world media because of how rich and powerful on the world stage MbS has become - the media of both parties talk more about Trump's tweets than this conspiracy the Saudi Royal government tried to pull in front of the damn world.

I feel great ontological sadness the instant people say "conspiracy" these days, even without constructing the loaded phrase by adding theorist, and the average person tends to tune out with lizard people thoughts instead of instantly thinking about the very real conspiracies of the tobacco companies, Iran-Contra and the Saudi's brazen conspiracy to murder Khashoggi and gaslight us all about it.

Conspiracies are very real and happen at every shady level of power.
 
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syrian_scholes

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Yeah I'm not buying that "the richest nation on earth" which has the resources to monitor and save all communication on earth and "intelligence" to weed out the dangerous ones does not have the ability to keep an eye on one inmate in Manhattan :lol:
Even if they didn't have the staff they could've just moved him, he was a priority prisoner after all.
 

VeevaVee

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One would assume she’d have had things to deal with should he be arrested. You’d also think anyone that wanted Epstein dead might want to know where she is too. The next suicide?

Yeah she is fecked either way now.
 

VorZakone

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I was just talking about this topic with a friend. "In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. "

My take is that what has been mainstreamed is exactly the most extreme crazy conspiracies (lizard people from the planet Sirius (from V), eating baby brains to be immortal, etc etc) and that is actually encouraged. Its encouraged because it inoculates people against the word "conspiracy" so they are subconsciously less likely to believe all the very real, very mundane conspiracies that regularly go on and rarely get the damnation they deserve. The word itself "conspiracy theorist" has been codified to not actually mean what its etymology is anymore.

Many very real conspiracies went into the chain of events causing the financial crisis - actually many financial crisis are caused by literal conspiracies motivated solely by greed. Trump's finances and those of many real estate developers at that level are riddled with criminal conspiracy. The California energy deregulation was a massive conspiracy from entities like Enron. The Iran-Contra Scandal was a massive, insane conspiracy that still has not received the weight of scrutiny it deserves historically. In Italy you have P2/Propaganda Due conspiracy that reached throughout the power elites in Italy. The tobacco companies hiding and lying about health negatives of smoking was a massive conspiracy. Companies like Halliburton and other defense contractors committing conspiracy via False Claims Act violations that never get covered by corporate media. And that's just the major stuff that everyone knows about but rarely actually realize are massive conspiracies. You have documented human rights violation conspiracies from Western governments, particularly the CIA, you have all kinds of financial conspiracies that most people get too bored to conceptualize (without adding some lizard people) and you have governments like Saudi Arabia conducting assassinations in broad daylight and then having the gall to try to gaslight the entire world about it. And even though all of us know how shady the Khashoggi incident was compare how little that conspiracy was ever covered in world media because of how rich and powerful on the world stage MbS has become - the media of both parties talk more about Trump's tweets than this conspiracy the Saudi Royal government tried to pull in front of the damn world.

I feel great ontological sadness the instant people say "conspiracy" these days, even without constructing the loaded phrase by adding theorist, and the average person tends to tune out with lizard people thoughts instead of instantly thinking about the very real conspiracies of the tobacco companies, Iran-Contra and the Saudi's brazen conspiracy to murder Khashoggi and gaslight us all about it.

Conspiracies are very real and happen at every shady level of power.
You managed to explain exactly my sentiment. It annoys me when people are so apathic (apathetic?) about conspiracies because they associate them with fake moon landing, lizards etc. The sheer naivety sometimes is astounding.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I was just talking about this topic with a friend. "In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. "

My take is that what has been mainstreamed is exactly the most extreme crazy conspiracies (lizard people from the planet Sirius (from V), eating baby brains to be immortal, etc etc) and that is actually encouraged. Its encouraged because it inoculates people against the word "conspiracy" so they are subconsciously less likely to believe all the very real, very mundane conspiracies that regularly go on and rarely get the damnation they deserve. The word itself "conspiracy theorist" has been codified to not actually mean what its etymology is anymore.

Many very real conspiracies went into the chain of events causing the financial crisis - actually many financial crisis are caused by literal conspiracies motivated solely by greed. Trump's finances and those of many real estate developers at that level are riddled with criminal conspiracy. The California energy deregulation was a massive conspiracy from entities like Enron. The Iran-Contra Scandal was a massive, insane conspiracy that still has not received the weight of scrutiny it deserves historically. In Italy you have P2/Propaganda Due conspiracy that reached throughout the power elites in Italy. The tobacco companies hiding and lying about health negatives of smoking was a massive conspiracy. Companies like Halliburton and other defense contractors committing conspiracy via False Claims Act violations that never get covered by corporate media. And that's just the major stuff that everyone knows about but rarely actually realize are massive conspiracies. You have documented human rights violation conspiracies from Western governments, particularly the CIA, you have all kinds of financial conspiracies that most people get too bored to conceptualize (without adding some lizard people) and you have governments like Saudi Arabia conducting assassinations in broad daylight and then having the gall to try to gaslight the entire world about it. And even though all of us know how shady the Khashoggi incident was compare how little that conspiracy was ever covered in world media because of how rich and powerful on the world stage MbS has become - the media of both parties talk more about Trump's tweets than this conspiracy the Saudi Royal government tried to pull in front of the damn world.

I feel great ontological sadness the instant people say "conspiracy" these days, even without constructing the loaded phrase by adding theorist, and the average person tends to tune out with lizard people thoughts instead of instantly thinking about the very real conspiracies of the tobacco companies, Iran-Contra and the Saudi's brazen conspiracy to murder Khashoggi and gaslight us all about it.

Conspiracies are very real and happen at every shady level of power.
It's semantics isn't it. Most of what you talk about is understood by public at large as 'corruption' and they are largely apathetic to it. Everyone knows that banking and political institutions are corrupt.

The word 'conspiracy' connotes with the more fanciful ideas of corruption.

The Khashoggi case was covered extensively by the UK media at least, some people were complaining that it got too much airtime considering that it was just one bloke getting killed when atrocities in Yemen, for example, are largely ignored by the media here.
 
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golden_blunder

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@Eboue
I’ve deleted your post accusing someone of rape. Niall and his website would be liable under law for stuff like that if it were to be taken down the legal route.

@everyone, please keep this in mind when posting. The board can not be liable for your personal views so take care when posting.
 

Eboue

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What about Harvey Weinstein or Donald Trump or Jeffrey Epstein or Michael Jackson or Julian Assange or Bill Cosby or R. Kelly? It's not like these are random people accused without any evidence. There are credible public claims made against them in major newspapers and on television stations all the time.

Notorious film-butcher, rapist and fellow sociopath Harvey Weinstein
Even if a video comes out showing Trump raping a baby seal nothing will be done about it. He's a rapist, everyone knows it and doesn't seem to give a feck.
You would have no interest in defending Michael Jackson being a child rapist if you didn’t love his music.
@Hanks I'm cheering because an alleged rapist [Assange] who went on the run for seven years to avoid facing the judiciary process has been arrested and may face justice for the allegations.
The rapists could include Clinton I'm guessing?
This rapist [Kavanugh] is having a meltdown
They fought to and successfully confirmed a rapist [Kavanaugh] to be a SCOTUS Justice.
Angry like a rapist. Can see [Kavanaugh] holding his hand over her mouth with the same expression.
Bet the rapist [Kavanaugh] says he does not want to be on the Court citing his kin family before the FBI reports what a serial rapist he has been.
[Bill Cosby]America's rapist
 

golden_blunder

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What about Harvey Weinstein or Donald Trump or Jeffrey Epstein or Michael Jackson or Julian Assange or Bill Cosby or R. Kelly? It's not like these are random people accused without any evidence. There are credible public claims made against them in major newspapers and on television stations all the time.
In fairness those posts should be removed too. It doesn’t justify us letting you or anyone post unproven allegations. I don’t think that @Niall would appreciate having to clean up the mess. He’s had legal letters before so think on that before posting. Forums AND individuals can be held legally responsible, it’s not freedom of speech
 

freeurmind

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In fairness those posts should be removed too. It doesn’t justify us letting you or anyone post unproven allegations. I don’t think that @Niall would appreciate having to clean up the mess. He’s had legal letters before so think on that before posting. Forums AND individuals can be held legally responsible, it’s not freedom of speech
Genuine question here. If one posts "alleged rapist", would that be ok?