Obama's Legacy

[GenZRed]

He was a dire President. Expanded USA's military industrial complex. Kept the Bush tax cuts for the rich, which only benefited rich. the Helped entrench America' surveillance state by not repealing the PATRIOT Act (what a name). Outsourcing of jobs continued under him. Did nothing of significance about climate change

A huge reason Trump got elected is because of Obama and his failure to Change anything significantly. Perhaps people should remember that instead of blaming American voters for being sick and tired of a system that screws them over.

People who say Obama was a good president are really just giving him a free pass just because he is a Democrat. Feel free to search Jimmy Dore show on Youtube if you want more information about Obama's legacy. Jimmy Dore is a left-wing progressive (so not a Republican hack) and personally I'm a huge fan of his show because he isn't blindly loyal to politicians just because of what party they happen to be a member of.

At least Obama did scream and shout on Twitter though. That's what people seem to care about these days.

 

[berbatrick]

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[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[marktan]

He was a dire President. Expanded USA's military industrial complex. Kept the Bush tax cuts for the rich, which only benefited rich. the Helped entrench America' surveillance state by not repealing the PATRIOT Act (what a name). Outsourcing of jobs continued under him. Did nothing of significance about climate change

A huge reason Trump got elected is because of Obama and his failure to Change anything significantly. Perhaps people should remember that instead of blaming American voters for being sick and tired of a system that screws them over.

People who say Obama was a good president are really just giving him a free pass just because he is a Democrat. Feel free to search Jimmy Dore show on Youtube if you want more information about Obama's legacy. Jimmy Dore is a left-wing progressive (so not a Republican hack) and personally I'm a huge fan of his show because he isn't blindly loyal to politicians just because of what party they happen to be a member of.

At least Obama did scream and shout on Twitter though. That's what people seem to care about these days.

Not disputing what you're saying but one of the main reasons Trump won was because his opposition was dire, the same reason Boris beat Corbyn. Stick Obama heads up against Trump or Starmer against Boris and the victory flips. One major problem with these 2 party democracies

 

[sammsky1]

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How does that compare to Bush and Trump?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

How does that compare to Bush and Trump?

Impossible to tell for Trump since he revoked Obama's policy of US officials releasing info on how many drone strikes had been carried out, after the media added up the numbers and reported that he had done it more than Obama up to his third year.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Donnie peeled back oversight meant to minimize civilian casualties, and like said above reduced the reporting on it. This likely contributed to a higher percentage of innocent people dying and is one reason the notion that ‘at least he wasn’t intervening in foreign wars’ is a myth.

That in no way justifies or minimizes what Obama did, it is just a relative comparison.

 

[psychdelicblues]

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[sammsky1]

Just had the book delivered by Amazon today so looking forward to reading over the next week. Anyone else reading it?

 

[SirAF]

Just had the book delivered by Amazon today so looking forward to reading over the next week. Anyone else reading it?

I'll read it over the Holidays.

 

[The Firestarter]

Just had the book delivered by Amazon today so looking forward to reading over the next week. Anyone else reading it?

I am reading it. Its a bit verbose.

 

[Foxbatt]

He is a great disappointment. He is the reason why the world is in a worse state. He came with so much hope for all the world. And he departed by making it a worse place.
He could have stopped all the wars and have a peaceful world. Yet he didn't do so.

 

[The Firestarter]

He is a great disappointment. He is the reason why the world is in a worse state. He came with so much hope for all the world. And he departed by making it a worse place.
He could have stopped all the wars and have a peaceful world. Yet he didn't do so.

He is not a magician. He could not have stopped all the wars that were started before him. Just withdrawing would have made things even worse before they began.

The bigger reason the world is in this state is George W Bush.

 

[lsd]

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Nothing wrong with that at all

 

[nimic]

Nothing wrong with that at all

Bush Jr. caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, at least. He also oversaw the Great Recession.

 

[Foxbatt]

He is not a magician. He could not have stopped all the wars that were started before him. Just withdrawing would have made things even worse before they began.

The bigger reason the world is in this state is George W Bush.

The Libyan and Syrian crisis was under his watch. If he had said No, none of these would have taken place.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

The Libyan and Syrian crisis was under his watch. If he had said No, none of these would have taken place.

Are you saying Obama is responsible for the Syrian civil war?

 

[The Firestarter]

The Libyan and Syrian crisis was under his watch. If he had said No, none of these would have taken place.

Some arguments can be made for Libya,although it was a NATO operation , and the whole thing was proposed by France and UK.
Mentioning Syria is really baffling since he is actually often blamed of not doing enough militarily there.
And those two conflicts are far from "all wars".

 

[Eboue]

Nothing wrong with that at all

 

[Foxbatt]

Are you saying Obama is responsible for the Syrian civil war?

All the foreign backed Jihadists were there because of Obama not saying No to it. If he had said No, none of the middle East countries would have dared to do it.
The same for Libya. Don't forget about what Hillary Clinton said about Gazzafi and Libya. Americans may have not been actively and directly involved in it but they definitely could have stopped it at the outset.
As for Syria? Not doing enough? No he couldn't have invaded Syria. But he surely could have stopped it. Yes that means Assad staying. He is staying anyway even now but if he had stopped it then, hundreds of thousands people would not have died no displaced.

 

[KirkDuyt]

He's a bit like Anakin Skywalker init. The chosen one, destined to bring balance to the US, but fecking things up spectecularly instead.

He is a slightly better speaker than Hayden Christensen though.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

All the foreign backed Jihadists were there because of Obama not saying No to it. If he had said No, none of the middle East countries would have dared to do it.
The same for Libya. Don't forget about what Hillary Clinton said about Gazzafi and Libya. Americans may have not been actively and directly involved in it but they definitely could have stopped it at the outset.
As for Syria? Not doing enough? No he couldn't have invaded Syria. But he surely could have stopped it. Yes that means Assad staying. He is staying anyway even now but if he had stopped it then, hundreds of thousands people would not have died no displaced.

I don’t know where to start with this, as I don’t want to just say nearly everything there is wrong. But don’t you see how you are shorting people of their own agency by comments like this?

The world doesn’t spin on an axis centered in Omaha; people all have their own choices and goals, for good and for bad. DC doesn’t get to decide whether or not people want to rebel.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don’t know where to start with this, as I don’t want to just say nearly everything there is wrong. But don’t you see how you are shorting people of their own agency by comments like this?

The world doesn’t spin on an axis centered in Omaha; people all have their own choices and goals, for good and for bad. DC doesn’t get to decide whether or not people want to rebel.

The American government certainly decide whom they want to rebel.
Good example. The movement for freedom in the Gulf region. The Arab spring in Bahrain. What happened? The Americans didn't support even by words at all and the Saudis sent in their military and crushed it. The Syrians wanted more freedom and the Americans and every Western country not only supported them morally but financially and physically. The result the chaos and the deaths there. The same in Libya. This has got nothing to do with freedom. It's all about oil or geopolitics.

 

[nimic]

He's a bit like Anakin Skywalker init. The chosen one, destined to bring balance to the US, but fecking things up spectecularly instead.

He is a slightly better speaker than Hayden Christensen though.

I hate Nazis. They're coarse and rough and irritating and they get everywhere.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

The American government certainly decide whom they want to rebel.
Good example. The movement for freedom in the Gulf region. The Arab spring in Bahrain. What happened? The Americans didn't support even by words at all and the Saudis sent in their military and crushed it. The Syrians wanted more freedom and the Americans and every Western country not only supported them morally but financially and physically. The result the chaos and the deaths there. The same in Libya. This has got nothing to do with freedom. It's all about oil or geopolitics.

Your examples illustrate my point as you seem to think the Arab Spring was manufactured depending on the whims of Obama at the time, yet in another thread you said the US was a Banana Republic.

So which is it?

 

[freeurmind]

"I killed them I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men but the women and the children too. They're likle animals and I slaughtered them like animals. I hate them"
Obama's true feelings on the drone strikes.

 

[GDaly95]

What freaks me out is, I can't understand his actions based on his words.

He seems caring, loving, compassionate and against any form of cruelty, but his actions displayed so much of it. That disconnect is a bit eerie to me.

 

[OldTrevil]

A mascot for US elite, an effective one to epic proportions for most of humanity unfortunately

 

[Tarrou]

a lot of people seem to believe the President has a lot of power to make drastic changes

first of all, if they are the type to genuinely want to change the system they won't become President

secondly, they don't have that much power anyway

Obama was a bit more human and charismatic than your average President but still a corporate puppet like the rest of them

 

[Gehrman]

All the foreign backed Jihadists were there because of Obama not saying No to it. If he had said No, none of the middle East countries would have dared to do it.
The same for Libya. Don't forget about what Hillary Clinton said about Gazzafi and Libya. Americans may have not been actively and directly involved in it but they definitely could have stopped it at the outset.
As for Syria? Not doing enough? No he couldn't have invaded Syria. But he surely could have stopped it. Yes that means Assad staying. He is staying anyway even now but if he had stopped it then, hundreds of thousands people would not have died no displaced.

No he really couldn't. The US have a damned if you do and damned if you don't relationship with foreign policy. You don't look to the US to crack down on protests for democracy and reform in the middle east. At least not in the 21st century. If the US intervene it's branded as western imperialism and if they don't it's taken as a sign that they don't care or hypocrisy. It's a lose lose scenario in most cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

 

[Foxbatt]

No he really couldn't. The US have a damned if you do and damned if you don't relationship with foreign policy. You don't look to the US to crack down on protests for democracy and reform in the middle east. At least not in the 21st century. If the US intervene it's branded as western imperialism and if they don't it's taken as a sign that they don't care or hypocrisy. It's a lose lose scenario in most cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

What do you mean? They only intervene when they want to. They could have promoted democray in the Gulf yet they didn't. When the Syrians rebelled they supported the rebels. The same in Ukraine. When the Bahrainis wanted democracy they shut up and let the Saudis send their military and destroy them. You cannot have the cake and eat it. They are selective with their democracy. It is not damned if they do or damned if they don't.

 

[Foxbatt]

Your examples illustrate my point as you seem to think the Arab Spring was manufactured depending on the whims of Obama at the time, yet in another thread you said the US was a Banana Republic.

So which is it?

The Banana republic has got nothing to do with Obama. He accepted the results that Hillary lost and invited Trump and his team to the WH and his team briefed the team of Trump. When you have the POTUS questioning the insitituions of the USA and the election results when he lost and refused to accept his loss and cry about fraud without showing an evidence then it is like a bannana republic. What is the difference between Trump and Lukashenko now? Both are claiming they won and there is election fraud. In fact both lost but are trying to hand onto power by dubious means. These things only happen in a bannana republic.

The Arab spring was not manufactured by Obama. You are deliberately misquoting me. I said that Obama could have stopped the invasion of Syria by foreign troops and also the same for Libya. Yet he didn't. He let the initial civil war in these countries fester by letting other countries get involved in war the recognised governments of those countries. In fact he encouraged it as we all know now what Hillary Clinton wanted to happen in Libya. It is on record.
Yet when the people of Bahrian wanted to have freedom he did not support them as the US has bases in Bahrian. He let the Saudis sent their military and crush the democracy movement.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

The Banana republic has got nothing to do with Obama. He accepted the results that Hillary lost and invited Trump and his team to the WH and his team briefed the team of Trump. When you have the POTUS questioning the insitituions of the USA and the election results when he lost and refused to accept his loss and cry about fraud without showing an evidence then it is like a bannana republic. What is the difference between Trump and Lukashenko now? Both are claiming they won and there is election fraud. In fact both lost but are trying to hand onto power by dubious means. These things only happen in a bannana republic.

The Arab spring was not manufactured by Obama. You are deliberately misquoting me. I said that Obama could have stopped the invasion of Syria by foreign troops and also the same for Libya. Yet he didn't. He let the initial civil war in these countries fester by letting other countries get involved in war the recognised governments of those countries. In fact he encouraged it as we all know now what Hillary Clinton wanted to happen in Libya. It is on record.
Yet when the people of Bahrian wanted to have freedom he did not support them as the US has bases in Bahrian. He let the Saudis sent their military and crush the democracy movement.

The first bolded part is not true; I don’t think you understand what that phrase means, which I mentioned because plays into my broader argument regarding how you are choosing to frame geopolitical events here.

The second is also untrue. Obama could have made an insane invasion into Syria, or allowed Assad to do whatever he wanted which included favoring targeting rebels over ISIS. He could not have flipped some switch to stop every malevolent actor from getting involved. Whether or not he made it worse is up to your discretion, but no serious onlooker will say he could have stopped the proxy actions that ensued.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Revan]

What freaks me out is, I can't understand his actions based on his words.

He seems caring, loving, compassionate and against any form of cruelty, but his actions displayed so much of it. That disconnect is a bit eerie to me.

Because world is a complicated place, and him just saying ‘let there not be war’ was actually never a solution that would have achieved anything.

I mean, just in this thread he gets accused for continuing the war in Iraq, and also for not having fought enough in Syria. ‘Damn if you do, damn if you don’t.

 

[Foxbatt]

The first bolded part is not true; I don’t think you understand what that phrase means, which I mentioned because plays into my broader argument regarding how you are choosing to frame geopolitical events here.

The second is also untrue. Obama could have made an insane invasion into Syria, or allowed Assad to do whatever he wanted which included favoring targeting rebels over ISIS. He could not have flipped some switch to stop every malevolent actor from getting involved. Whether or not he made it worse is up to your discretion, but no serious onlooker will say he could have stopped the proxy actions that ensued.

Actually it's wrong. If he had invaded Syria the situation would have been worse. If he stopped the gulf countries fighting their proxy war Assad would have massacred the rebels of course but that would have been the end of the whole thing in Syria. The USA has much more influence than people think certainly in the middle East and especially in the gulf countries.
It's not Trump alone but any POTUS has that kind of influence in the middle East.
It doesn't mean Trump is better. Of course he is much worse than Obama but Obama came with so much hope for all the world but left with great disappointment.
He doesn't deserve the Nobel Peace Price. He didn't do anything to deserve it.

 

[2cents]

when the people of Bahrian wanted to have freedom he did not support them as the US has bases in Bahrian. He let the Saudis sent their military and crush the democracy movement

If he stopped the gulf countries fighting their proxy war Assad would have massacred the rebels of course but that would have been the end of the whole thing in Syria

I’m struggling a bit to identify a consistent position or principle here. You appear critical of the Bahraini regime crushing the uprising there with the support of the Saudis and Americans. Yet you appear supportive of the idea of Assad crushing the uprising in Syria. Or am I reading you wrong?

Also I find the idea that Obama could have simply stopped outside support for the Syrian rebels with a snap of his fingers to be an overestimation of American power in the Middle East, which has been declining since 2003. For a number of reasons, Obama did not have the respect of the Saudis, the Qataris, and the Turks, who were the three primary sponsors of the various ‘mainstream’ rebel factions.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Wasn't planning to read his memoirs anyway, but I heard they're around ~800 pages, feck me. No one has that much to tell.

 

[Eboue]

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Wasn't planning to read his memoirs anyway, but I heard they're around ~800 pages, feck me. No one has that much to tell.

A Dance with Dragons had over a thousand pages and it has absolutely nothing of note to say, so it is doable.