africanspur
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How do I become a La Liga referee? Seems to be an incredibly lucrative job judging by this thread.
"Catalan corruption: we're way better at this than anyone else!"Have you a special form of corruption over there that doesn’t translate to Italian corruption?
I have said that the referees were not bought by Barcelona and that in various leagues Barcelona should have won without refereeing errors against them and in favor of Real Madrid.Niemans, if you want to talk about logic and fallacies:
You have tried to "prove" that Barcelona have not benefitted from refereeing help. This argument has lead to the absurd conclusion that they are the rightful winners of 11 consecutive league titles. The conclusion is so absurd that it supports the opposite claim, that Barcelona benefitted from refereeing help.
I already said I don't know if Barcelona were favored or not, and that Justice should determine that in case they are able to do so.It is one thing to have power over the referees and another to have some power over the referees. He cannot decide who goes up and who goes down on his own, he will make reports on how they think his performance has been, as I suppose the other two vice presidents will do.
I have also asked how you make the referees favor Barcelona and I think you have not answered, I say I think because I have so many mentions that I have obviously missed many.
No, it came as an aswer to my post when it was completely unrelated and on top of that, it was a post-Negreira chart.The organization chart came about because people say that the referees were bought by Barcelona when 300,000 euros are not even enough to buy half of a referee's shoes, much less all those people who are in the arbitration organization chart.
You assumed Iturralde's view was providing some sort of insight, which is ok. So I added Roures view (who is not suspect of having an anti Barcelona bias) who has the opposite opinion, to complement it.And that is if we assume that the word of Jaume Roures is above that of Iturralde González.
They were wiretapping them and caught them choosing which referees to select. That's as close as you're going to get to proof!They didn’t have proof of match fixing in Italy though. This is much worse, literally millions being paid to the head of referee without any proof of what it was for.
It’s not up to the authorities to outright prove match fixing. It’s up to Barca to prove what the payments were for. If the burden of proof were the other way around then any bribe could never be proven.
Excuse me if you already told me. As you can imagine, I am getting so many mentions that I no longer know who tells me this or who tells me that, except for a few exceptions. I should take a couple of days offI already said I don't know if Barcelona were favored or not, and that Justice should determine that in case they are able to do so.
At this point it would be more interesting if you answered why Barcelona was paying Negreira huge amounts of money to start with.
No, it came as an aswer to my post when it was completely unrelated and on top of that, it was a post-Negreira chart.
You assumed Iturralde's view was providing some sort of insight, which is ok. So I added Roures view (who is not suspect of having an anti Barcelona bias) who has the opposite opinion, to complement it.
You don't need to bribe the whole arbitration organization.The organization chart came about because people say that the referees were bought by Barcelona when 300,000 euros are not even enough to buy half of a referee's shoes, much less all those people who are in the arbitration organization chart.
And that is if we assume that the word of Jaume Roures is above that of Iturralde González.
They didn’t have proof of match fixing in Italy though. This is much worse, literally millions being paid to the head of referee without any proof of what it was for.
It’s not up to the authorities to outright prove match fixing. It’s up to Barca to prove what the payments were for. If the burden of proof were the other way around then any bribe could never be proven.
You have already been corrected again, friend Cyberman.They were wiretapping them and caught them choosing which referees to select. That's as close as you're going to get to proof!
In Spain it is very common to be a fan of the team where you were born and after Madrid or Barcelona mainly.Negreira saying he had no bias towards Barcelona after receiving money from them is just about as believable as @Niemans being able to support both Celta Vigo and Barcelona equally.
You don't need to bribe the whole arbitration organization.
That organisation had the same president for 25 years (1993-2018) and the same single VP for 24 years (1994-2018). According to Roures, a prominent Barca socio and very involved in anything regarding Spanish soccer, Negreira was the one making the ref reports.
According to former ref Sanchez Martínez he was the one to call the refs and notify them of their careers progressions and downgrades, and he would also tell what they did well and what mistakes they made.
Another former ref pointed out that the progressions and downgrades were not made according to the category and qualities of the refs and that they were surprised about who would be promoted and who would not.
And we have seen many examples of exactly this.
I posted an article with more than 20 examples of refs being punished or promoted after mistakes that harmed or benefitted Barca. Messier1994 posted a video discussing the very same thing. A ref had to resign after all the pressure he received from the ref committee (of which Negreira was the VP) for not sending out Mourinho on a game!!
So yeah, you don't have to bribe the whole ref committee. Just someone with power within it so that refs know what will get them punished and what will get them promoted.
You don't have to bribe the refs personally but this may also have happened every once in a while. Let's remember Negreira would withdraw 20k€ in cash monthly. All while his own son had access to said refs: he was a mental coach for la Liga refs and would take them personally to the Camp Nou.
The guy's entire argument is to create a strawman by arguing against the most extreme and nonsensical interpretion of events.
Barcelona "paid to influence referees" transforms into "Barcelona paid a bribe to every single person involved in refereeing."
Barcelona "received refereeing benefits" transforms into "Barcelona paid so that every single decision favored them."
Any chance you could answer the questions of Sir Reginald?I ask you again how the referees knew that they had to favor Barcelona?
In order to advance in this discussion, you have to answer this, which is the most basic of all.
Don't think I'm on your side here! Barcelona are as guilty as sin, I'm just saying they don't have quite the same level of proof they did in Italy.You have already been corrected again, friend Cyberman.
And that you are seeing my serious part, if I start with my funniest part here everyone will hate me and more Rimaldo because I still compete with him, I say maybe. I think he could have been the seventh Monty Python at the time, he's talented.This thread is more entertaining than the last el Classico - it’s getting rather tasty in here
very simplyI ask you again how the referees knew that they had to favor Barcelona?
In order to advance in this discussion, you have to answer this, which is the most basic of all.
Still positive about it? He is a spambot, a pr guy which won't be a surprise move by the most shameless club.Now you've proven you can see both my and iker's posts, do you mind replying to his and sir Reginald posts?
Do you know where the rumor that Barcelona was doping came from? I do. But don't tell me you're going to have to force me to make another post and look for more links...Don't think I'm on your side here! Barcelona are as guilty as sin, I'm just saying they don't have quite the same level of proof they did in Italy.
And this is all before you get into the blatant doping that's been going on in all Spanish sport for years.
Intelligent, funny AND incredibly humbleAnd that you are seeing my serious part, if I start with my funniest part here everyone will hate me and more Rimaldo because I still compete with him, I say maybe. I think he could have been the seventh Monty Python at the time, he's talented.
But trying to influence what referee is in charge and having them ref in their favour are two separate matters? On one hand you have a phone call from Moggi (?) complaining about referees decisions against them versus literally millions of euros of bribes paid by Barca?They were wiretapping them and caught them choosing which referees to select. That's as close as you're going to get to proof!
You would be surprised to read that it was actually the case for…. Milan!They were wiretapping them and caught them choosing which referees to select. That's as close as you're going to get to proof!
I hope he's getting paid for this, that's all I have to say.Still positive about it? He is a spambot, a pr guy which won't be a surprise move by the most shameless club.
Ok, tell me why you still have no proof of his services despite being asked in 2019 according to another poster above.You have already been corrected again, friend Cyberman.
Yes, from the doctor who did it. He even offered to provide proof until the Spanish court ordered the evidence to be destroyed.Do you know where the rumor that Barcelona was doping came from? I do. But don't tell me you're going to have to force me to make another post and look for more links...
https://www.futbolgate.com/investigación/footballleaks-el-moggigate-españolI ask you again how the referees knew that they had to favor Barcelona?
In order to advance in this discussion, you have to answer this, which is the most basic of all.
Of course, and those referees are not going to denounce a person who tries to buy them.very simply
reward refs who help Barca
punish those who do not
You sure? Negreira, the ref VP, declared Barca paid him to avoid any bad refereering to Barca.Don't think I'm on your side here! Barcelona are as guilty as sin, I'm just saying they don't have quite the same level of proof they did in Italy.
And this is all before you get into the blatant doping that's been going on in all Spanish sport for years.
ThisBarva fans can try to deny it and confuse the issue as much as they like.
The reality is simple. The club have been trying to influence referees since 2001.
Doesn't that actually point in the direction that the referees were actually working to benefit Barça?Pérez urged him to join him in a separate room in the Santiago Bernabéu stadium, but the referee refused to do so unless his assistants were present.
Iturralde González says Perez said: "I only ask one thing of referees, that you give me the same treatment as you do Barça."
Link
Keep going, nothing to see.
Mother of God that post. I understand the reason for so many atrocities. You believe information without evidence and totally biased information.https://www.futbolgate.com/investigación/footballleaks-el-moggigate-español
Refs that made mistakes that harmed Barca would get a 'nevera'. They would not ref for several weeks.
Refs that made mistakes that benefitted Barca got promoted to big games and internationally.
This is public information, we fans knew it. Certainly the refs certainly would knew it too.
That is the subtle explanation. The more direct one is what Negreira's son apparently said to the refs before a game in Camp Nou:
“You already know: here, calm down. Barcelona has a lot at stake and you can´t hesitate. You are more than prepared. You know exactly what you have to do."
Doesn't that actually point in the direction that the referees were actually working to benefit Barça?
You sure? Negreira, the ref VP, declared Barca paid him to avoid any bad refereering to Barca.
This
He got gifted a fridge for benefiting Madrid? Was it an inverter at least?2006 - Daudén Ibáñez annulled a legal goal by Perea for Atlético against Real Madrid on the day.
An error that benefited Real Madrid. The consequences for the referee? Refrigerator (sanctioned by the referees committee). In the following 14 games he only refereed one game.
What I am saying is that there is no evidence that this money has been used to buy arbitration favors.
Let's see, I've said it many times already. Barcelona paid Negreira, that is morally and ethically unacceptable and must be sanctioned with the corresponding sanction. What is not true and I have posted videos, links and so on is the tremendous campaign here in Spain saying that Barcelona won the titles thanks to the referees. When it is the opposite, Barcelona with correct arbitrations should have four more leagues, Real Madrid three less and Atlético de Madrid one less in those 18 years of Barcelona payments to Negreira.
I have some posts pending on how to brainwash people here in Spain with several very clear and forceful examples.
Here there are no counterweights, all the general press is a Madridista and Franco worshipers, who say that he was the good man of the Spanish War. The only exception is the Grupo Prisa, which is from the other side but is also a Madridista.
In case you didn't get it (I'm not sure, sorry), that is surely an expression that the referee got "frozen" for selections, not being allowed to be appointed for games as a punishment.He got gifted a fridge for benefiting Madrid? Was it an inverter at least?
nobody tried to buy themOf course, and those referees are not going to denounce a person who tries to buy them.
And obviously they are going to allow themselves to be punished and stop earning hundreds of thousands of euros (by removing them from arbitration) if they do not favor Barcelona instead of denouncing this purchase attempt.
And also this must be done to many referees because obviously Barcelona throughout a season will be refereed by many referees, and also these referees must direct the most important matches to have influence. And all this without anyone reporting this purchase attempt.
I'm sorry but this argument doesn't make any sense. It lacks all logic.
Good God man! I didn't think it warranted a white text.In case you didn't get it (I'm not sure, sorry), that is surely an expression that the referee got "frozen" for selections, not being allowed to be appointed for games as a punishment.
Well, potentially. It may seem outlandish (and it does, I would say) that all the refs were summoned and told to be lenient on Barca. The more likely scenario is that individual refs (in important matches) were approached and given (more or less subtle) instructions.And also this must be done to many referees because obviously Barcelona throughout a season will be refereed by many referees, and also these referees must direct the most important matches to have influence.