Ogden: Six years of mistakes, bad signings and wasted money. Last night was a positive step for Manchester United, but how have they fallen so far?

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It is simple. We took it for granted that Post-Fergie, the success would just continue on as normal. A lack of understanding of just how big a gap Ferguson's retirement would create.

In a nutshell, I think even most of us fans were guilty of it, but we aint the ones running a multi-billion dollar business.

So many people are implicit in our downfall, David Gill and SAF did an absolutely shocking job of preparing the club for the latter's departure. Nothing was put into place to facilitate it and the best they could come up with was David "cut from the same cloth" Moyes

Woodward and the owners have since been trying to put a band-aid on a bullet wound and only now have everyone at the club (SAF and the advisory board included) realised that another SAF is unlikely and that another way of thinking may be required that doesn't have us hitting the reset button every 1-2 years. Hopefully now, even if OGS ends up not being up to the job, the next manager will follow the same ideals and won't need to rip everything up again, only than can we truly start building towards something long-term, and by long-term I mean as a club, not a club formed around one man.

 

[Adnan]

There is a few new things in there but it's good to be reminded of how far we've fallen and how much money has been wasted (still being wasted on AWB&Maguire) post SAF. These types of articles are good because it should remind us of the sheer incompetence in the last 6 years and counting.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Someone at the Harvard business school will write their graduate thesis on one of the greatest episodes of failed executive leadership in sports history. It's been a disaster, though we're still no New York Knicks.

The Knicks were never elite like we were.

 

[TsuWave]

Ole is going to live off yesterday’s win for the next couple of months, right?

 

[Kazi]

Ogden’s still sour about getting no more leaks

 

[Ish]

Kick the ball off bayern player shins to win corners?! Amazing

 

[Oldyella]

Van Gaal and Mourinho's tenures are also scruitinized and interesting tidbits are posted regarding both and their time at the club. Woodward is also scruitinized and he also touches on how the club have gone from wanting a DoF to currently not prioritising one.

Don't worry, we will want one again soon enough after a few bad results.

 

[Devil77]

https://www.espn.com/soccer/manches...the-inside-story-on-how-everything-fell-apart

Haven’t seen this posted anywhere. Mark Ogden article for ESPN FC detailing how it all fell apart post-SAF.

Madwinger would have loved this part about Kagawa:

A bit unfair as Mata did good for the first years. He also had a good understanding with Kagawa. Moyes could have started them both more often.

Mata was not the problem. Years of underinvestment and then David f...ing Moyes ruining what was left of the winning culture was.

 

[fergosaurus]

He must have loved Tony Valencia

 

[Man of Leisure]

The characterization of Woodward is new for me. Always pictured him as being something of a dickhead, but instead he's characterized to be more of a clueless, yet likable sort.

 

[Tel074]

Managers have come and gone -- Solskjaer is the fourth hire since Ferguson -- a staggering £840 million ($1 billion) has been spent, and largely wasted, on players. Mistakes have been made in the boardroom and only now are we hearing talk of a "cultural reboot" within Old Trafford.

This is the problem in a nutshell.

Had we spent that money wisely, on players more structurally suited to the manager's desired system and the club as a whole - rather than signing the biggest name available - our situation would be very different.

I think that is part of our problem imo . We signed players suited to certain managers ideas and systems then when that manager left we are left with unwanted players because they had new ideas and systems . We need to start buying players for the style we want to play as a club and fit managers into our style .

 

[Bastian]

Good summary of things. And an important part to factor in to the club's alleged long-term plan "waiting for your rivals to fail is no plan for success". Absolutely spot on.

 

[Suedesi]

In a nutshell, I think even most of us fans were guilty of it, but we aint the ones running a multi-billion dollar business.

So many people are implicit in our downfall, David Gill and SAF did an absolutely shocking job of preparing the club for the latter's departure. Nothing was put into place to facilitate it and the best they could come up with was David "cut from the same cloth" Moyes

Woodward and the owners have since been trying to put a band-aid on a bullet wound and only now have everyone at the club (SAF and the advisory board included) realised that another SAF is unlikely and that another way of thinking may be required that doesn't have us hitting the reset button every 1-2 years. Hopefully now, even if OGS ends up not being up to the job, the next manager will follow the same ideals and won't need to rip everything up again, only than can we truly start building towards something long-term, and by long-term I mean as a club, not a club formed around one man.

Too much is made of this; if you leave a job, are you responsible for the performance of your replacement? 6-7 years on?

Sir Alex wanted to retire, at some point the club should have started to prepare for the eventuality of your then 72-year old manager calling it quits. It's called a Key Man Risk and any business worth it salt should have had plans in the drawer.

 

[Kag]

Ogden has just pieced together about five previous articles of his and passed it off as something new.

The ‘quotes’ are phantom, too. They read like they could have been written on RedCafe. Maybe they were?

 

[Green_Red]

Does anyone remember when journalism was about revealing something new? Its the biggest problem with the internet, any pleb with an English degree that watches MOTD is now somehow a journalist.

 

[Leftback99]

Definitely prepared hoping we'd lose against Spurs.

 

[clarkydaz]

The characterization of Woodward is new for me. Always pictured him as being something of a dickhead, but instead he's characterized to be more of a clueless, yet likable sort.

Seems that way, he doesn't seem to realise what he says. 'Its difficult to make 3 signings in a window' says the man in charge of Manchester United, like it cant be helped. How many sponsor deals are you wrapping up in that time? tit

 

[Bastian]

Definitely prepared hoping we'd lose against Spurs.

 

[DoomSlayer]

No wonder we get taken to the cleaners when it comes to transfer fees, agent commissions and player wages, Woodward is an incompetent and clueless softie that can't admit he is way over his head.

I imagine that he has quite a reputation in the footballing world as a person who can't negotiate favourable deals for his club, so everyone is basically rinsing us whenever that is possible.

 

[WR10]

To be fair:

• Greenwood 18 years old
• Rashford 22 years old
• James 22 years old
• AWB 22 years old
• Scott 22 years old
• Martial 24 years old
• Fred 26 years old
• Pogba 26 years old
• Maguire 26 years old

This is not a matter of just waiting for your opponents to become shit. This is an insanely young group of players that have so far demonstrated strong leadership and determination - with moments of actual brilliance with football. You only have to look at some of those player's individual progression to put 2 and 2 together to know where this team will be in 2-3 years.

There's a powerful spine to this team from DDG all the way through Maguire, Scott, and Rashford upfront.

This is the first time since Fergie left us that we have had a team built on a spine that fully understands Manchester United. For the past ~5 years we have thought we can buy mercenaries that can look at a poster and feel manchester united. It's not worked.

So far the seeds being planted here are very encouraging. I mean just look at their ages.....

 

[FrankDrebin]

Ogden’s still sour about getting no more leaks

Yep.
Since Moyes left,which going by the article he is still milking the views from a fair few sources, he's done nothing but continually stick the boot in.

Unfortunately ,due to our obvious incompetence throughout all levels, he can revel in such views for now and (likely) for some considerable time.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Also,whoever the source is (though I have a fair few ideas as to who those individuals may be) I'm getting slightly sick to the back teeth with these individuals continually bemoan the fact that Moyes wasn't managing United in the 'fergie way'.

Now,as much as I think Moyes was comfortably the worst appointment we could've opted for, at the very least he has to go by his own instincts and be confident enough in his own approach for how he's going to manage his new playing and coaching staff. Basically,like it or not, he has to be his own man.

So for these players to keep harping on and on (ad nauseam) about how Moyes wasn't acting like Fergie mk2 (likely because he had the sheer nerve to take their fecking chips/crisps away) is not only a sign of utter ignorance but also one of utter childish stupidity.

Moyes and especially some of the players really pissed me off in the 2013 campaign.

 

[Shark]

Woodward is the problem, as any sensible United fan knows.

So you’d agree that Woodward has made horrific managerial signings since SAF retired then? Or are we going to going to continue to ignore that when judging him, because a club legend is in charge and we want him to succeed so badly.

 

[ghagua]

Game against Spur was not a pointer towards anything. We have not had any issues raising our games against most top clubs, it's the shitty attitude shown by the players against the lower teams that has been our downfall.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ogden doesn't strike me as someone who writes /says anything interest. It's always the same old recycled content about how aimless/pointless/ mismanaged we are, and it's given importance as he's apparently an important journalist. He wants to sound like he has insight but usually doesn't.

It's a long ass title for something that has so little substance in it.

So I'm definitely not reading it. Little tid bits in between things everyone knows.

 

[tenpoless]

The quotes look like They were picked from Youtube comment section.

 

[RedSky]

To be fair:

• Greenwood 18 years old
• Rashford 22 years old
• James 22 years old
• AWB 22 years old
• Scott 22 years old
• Martial 24 years old
• Fred 26 years old
• Pogba 26 years old
• Maguire 26 years old

This is not a matter of just waiting for your opponents to become shit. This is an insanely young group of players that have so far demonstrated strong leadership and determination - with moments of actual brilliance with football. You only have to look at some of those player's individual progression to put 2 and 2 together to know where this team will be in 2-3 years.

There's a powerful spine to this team from DDG all the way through Maguire, Scott, and Rashford upfront.

This is the first time since Fergie left us that we have had a team built on a spine that fully understands Manchester United. For the past ~5 years we have thought we can buy mercenaries that can look at a poster and feel manchester united. It's not worked.

So far the seeds being planted here are very encouraging. I mean just look at their ages.....

Agreed, adding to that the players we seem to be linked with all fit the same age profile of young with lots to prove. Still think we need to sprinkle a little more experience in that group but it's a very strong core.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Mind boggling we actually thought Moyesy was good enough for our club.

Could easily change Moyesy to Ole in that sentence

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Too much is made of this; if you leave a job, are you responsible for the performance of your replacement? 6-7 years on?

Absolutely not.

But it doesn’t mean that SAF & Gill didn’t do a terrible job of the transition. Gill is especially at fault yet gets off scott free from our fans.

 

[sammsky1]

Really a nothing article. No new insight or hypotheses, perhaps a few new supporting quotes, but still nothing revolutionary or profound.

 

[sammsky1]

Ogden doesn't strike me as someone who writes /says anything interest. It's always the same old recycled content about how aimless/pointless/ mismanaged we are, and it's given importance as he's apparently an important journalist. He wants to sound like he has insight but usually doesn't.


So I'm definitely not reading it. Little tid bits in between things everyone knows.

Agree 100% with this.

And we are analysed and examined so much, there isn’t really anything new to say about how trials since SAF retired, especially for a Redcafe Audience where every scrap and detail is subjected to forensic interrogation.

 

[The Boy]

I think that is part of our problem imo . We signed players suited to certain managers ideas and systems then when that manager left we are left with unwanted players because they had new ideas and systems . We need to start buying players for the style we want to play as a club and fit managers into our style .

I think it's worse than that, the different managers didn't sign people suited to their systems, apart from maybe Jose in his first window.

Fellaini and Mata, weren't Moyes players, they were knee-jerk must get players in buys and a poor attempt to impress after a terrible summer transfer window where Ed and Moyes were shown up as naive and extremely inexperienced.

Schneiderlin, Darmian, Depay, Rojo etc weren't technical possession experts, which is what LvG wanted. ADM and Falcao were glitzy names rather than heavily scouted players bought to fit a specific system. The only exception really was Blind who did fot LvG's style while Martial was a panic buy after he failed to get Mane.

Jose's first window was very Jose, Ibra, Pogba looked to fit his style as did Bailly at first and the following season Lukaku and Matic fitted the Jose style. But again Sanchez was a glitz signing, Mou has never actively pursued a player like him.

Anyway long post to say that it is worse that the poster above thinks. Yes you've had managers with very different styles, but each of them seemed to have a very scattergun approach to signings and apart from the very few mentioned above, they don't seem to have been bought for any great strategic reason.

At least under Ole (so far) you can see the signings are there for a reason, though I am still amazed that Herrera and Smalling were allowed to go, you'd be quite a bit stronger this season I think with them in the squad.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Really a nothing article. No new to insight or hypotheses, perhaps a few new supporting quotes, but still nothing revaluationary or profound.

It's a sports article not a dissertation, mate. Perhaps football isn't the place to look for that kind of depth.

 

[roonster09]

Really a nothing article. No new to insight or hypotheses, perhaps a few new supporting quotes, but still nothing revaluationary or profound.

It's just all the articles published in last 6 years is clubbed into one. It's Ogden, must have been hard work for him.

 

[lysglimt]

Woodward is the problem, as any sensible United fan knows.

Oh no - It's OGS's fault!

 

[VJ1762]

Things that people over at espn.com hate
1) Ronaldo
2) Mourinho
3) All italian clubs
4) Anything to do with Manchester United.

Also, feck Stevie Nicol.

Haven't all these discussions about our demise been done already? Woodward and the glazers are Grade A cnuts, and the FA should have blocked the takeover after all those mass protests, but the geezers didn't do anything. Fans are helpless in the modern game.

 

[rollingstoned1]

on another note, i realise sometimes sources want to be anonymous but are there any repercussions to journalists making it up? I mean it seems like low hanging fruit and no one is really going to come after him for a quote that affirms most people's notions given by an 'anonymous source'.

 

[Bobcat]

To be fair:

• Greenwood 18 years old
• Rashford 22 years old
• James 22 years old
• AWB 22 years old
• Scott 22 years old
• Martial 24 years old
• Fred 26 years old
• Pogba 26 years old
• Maguire 26 years old

This is not a matter of just waiting for your opponents to become shit. This is an insanely young group of players that have so far demonstrated strong leadership and determination - with moments of actual brilliance with football. You only have to look at some of those player's individual progression to put 2 and 2 together to know where this team will be in 2-3 years.

There's a powerful spine to this team from DDG all the way through Maguire, Scott, and Rashford upfront.

This is the first time since Fergie left us that we have had a team built on a spine that fully understands Manchester United. For the past ~5 years we have thought we can buy mercenaries that can look at a poster and feel manchester united. It's not worked.

So far the seeds being planted here are very encouraging. I mean just look at their ages.....

I agree, add Haaland(19) and Williams(18) into the mix as well as a another young CM and a youngish CB and you got a spine that definitely has age and time on their side

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Good summary of things. And an important part to factor in to the club's alleged long-term plan "waiting for your rivals to fail is no plan for success". Absolutely spot on.

Worked for dippers.

 

[Sandikan]

Good summary of things. And an important part to factor in to the club's alleged long-term plan "waiting for your rivals to fail is no plan for success". Absolutely spot on.

That story of planning to be decent when klopp and pep have gone was the silliest