Talking sense to that guy about Ole is like trying to convince Romeo Juliet is not worth it.
Ole’s farewell interview
- Thread starter Zoo
- Start date
yeah you're right...foolish of me to engage really!
I mean we have Maguire, Varane, Donny, Bruno, Sancho who are all good players. Maguire has been a walking disaster for 2 years?
Yes lets talk about the 35 year old attack and forget the Greenwoo'ds Sancho's and the like.
Ole took over with Sanchez as the LW who was only here for the pay cheque.
Well... I, for one, am delighted to learn that Ole has made some friends. Because that's what it's all about isn't it. Making friends
Deary me
Deary me
If you really believe that then I see no point in further discussion really. Also pity the game isn't played on paper.
For me the squad that finished on around 90 points 3 seasons in a row winning two titles in the process was far better than the dross that was cobbled together over the next 5 years. The 2018 squad was probably the worst United squad I've seen in 30 years.
Pity that football is not played in paper, indeed. Cause if it did, this squad would have been better than the one Mourinho left.
However, on pitch, the Mourinho’s one was better. Shown by number of points, trophies and that even at its darkest hour, it still managed to do much better than what Ole’s squad did this season.
I think you are using different metrics in your judgement. When it comes to 2013 vs 2018, you are basing it in achievements and how they played in the pitch (the right thing to do). However, when you are comparing the squads of 2018 and 2021, you are doing that based on how they look in paper, not on achievements or in how they looked in the pitch. Use the same standard (how the squads were performing and what did they win), and Jose leaves us with a better squad than Ole.
So you think its perfectly fine then? I'd be embarrassed if I was a Utd fan.
If you're expecting a discussion based on logic then you'll probably be disappointed...
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God that word again, what would embarrass you?
A club legend addressing the fans he has an excellent relationship with for decades as he leaves the job?
Strange things must embarrass you bud.
Weird post, given that you're chiming in to support some guy's made-up theory backed by nothing. @Tom Cato pointed out some very simple facts: Ole himself stated that the interview was taking place at his request, something that has been backed by well-connected journos.
This is very true and all, at least in terms of factual observation. However, for the purposes of looking at the squads they left behind (not achievement during tenure) it doesn't leave that much room for debate.
It's not much of an observation to look at a final league table or run of form prior to the sack, but that's never going to be the full story as we're talking about very specific points in time. For the current squad we only have half a story which the next manager has to take on.
I think the "names on paper" approach has merit for the purposes of that discussion, otherwise an interesting comparison is simply shut down. It's slightly unfair on Jose as we have the benefit of knowing the problems that existed within the squad whereas we're short of detail and context for this lot which can only become clear later.
Well it must be true then in that case - there is literally no other explanation!
Might well be other explanations, but your's definitely isn't it chief.
Don't think I don't notice the childish thing you're doing with the passive agressive smileys.
Again, if you're of the belief that the club is putting this out there to help themselves and not the publicly accepted fact, its a textbook definition of a conspiracy theory. What's worse is that you're actively refuting credible sources just to play this little game of "what if".
This isn't even a comment on Ole, but I do feel that fans attacking a heartfelt farewell instead of appreciating it is a good argument for why you don't deserve nice things.
The lack of common deceny around this place is palpable.
Why is there no room for debate ?
His additions to the defense he inherited have the people split on them. Maguire and AWB haven't been that undisputable success to think that the current defense is better than the one he inherited. A lot of people already want Maguire and AWB replaced. Shaw was a starter already when he inherited the team.
He didn't change anything regarding the midfield and we're still playing with Scott, Fred, Pogba and Matic, the players he inherited. Pogba will leave next summer for free anyway.
Bruno has been a success and he did well to promote Greenwood (even though he has been a well known talent in the academy anyway). Rashford has been already here and Martial regressed even more. Sancho looks like a flop.
Cavani and Ronaldo don't have future at the club, they're just here for one more year max or something.
Not to mention the majority of the first team sheet are players +28 years old. We're looking forward to yet another rebuild within 2-3 years from now.
On paper, the only position that improved in the team is the attack and it's thanks to Bruno and Greenwood. The defense and midfield are still shit and the next manager will most probably sign new players in them.
Think you perhaps were misunderstanding my point. I was trying to say there is room for debate.
Whereas if we solely judge the two managers end of life squads on form, league position etc, there isn't really anything to discuss because that's black and white, but only covers that short period. But we know full well football changes and a snapshot in time doesn't define a squad.
But actually, you can delve into some of the points you mention and debate these things. But ultimately it's the next manager that will tell us a lot. If they can take this squad on with just one or two additions and make a competitive unit, it would suggest Oles squad building was not too bad but he didn't get his ideas across or prioritised the wrong signings at the wrong time. Probably both because there's a feeling that no matter what Ole did in the market he just doesn't have it.
If the next manager struggles as well, it starts to paint a picture that we have some serious deficiencies and after 400 million that would speak to poor squad building.
Without that full context it is at least interesting to analyse the squads.
Don't disagree much with this .. but at the same time, say a new manager comes and made the likes of VDB and Sancho the main unit of a title challenging time while Ole signed them and left them rotting on the bench, it'll be illogical to give Ole credit for this manager's success using such players.
In some sense, yes. Because whatever credit he would get for his operations within the market he would lose even more for his ineptitude in producing a team. But it's not just about those two and that specific example you give, he's bought other players that have been key under him and have had various patches of form which suggests they could go either way.
He can't really win, but he'd be much closer to doing so if we weren't a complete disaster moving forward.
100% fine. Ole wants to maintain a positive relationship with the club and fans.
He owned the situation, I'd much rather this, particularly given its Ole, than an ex manager, who'd overseen some shocking results, bitching and moaning in the press trying to blame everyone but themselves.
But giving Ole credit for VDB becoming a main player under next manager will be like giving Mourinho credit for Fred becoming a starter under Ole, or LVG credit for Herrera becoming starter under Mourinho, or even giving Moyes credit for Fellaini becoming a main player under LVG and Mourinho. They signed these players but they kept them rotting on the bench and didn't trust them, if the next manager revives them, it's their own credit.
Of course, if Maguire becomes the next Rio and AWB becomes the next Dani Alves then Ole should get credit for signing them no problem, as they were, as you said, main players under him.
To be honest even on paper both the 2013 and 2021 squads look much better than the 2018 one to me, regardless of on pitch achievements. For me the 2018 squad was a horribly cobbled together unbalanced group of individuals assembled by 3 managers with completely different plans or not much of a plan at all.
In the last 10 years we've sold only 5 players for a sum bigger or same as 20 mil.
Players like Hernadez, Blind, Smalling left for less than aforementioned sum yet you expect Phil Jones to go for that kind of money.
The irony.
A thread about one topic but where everyone just repeats for the 20th time things they have said in lots of other threads.
I'm not entirely convinced we're in a better position than after Mourinho left. If you look at the squad, yes it's stronger but there are a lot of question marks on players futures. Pogba, Lingard, VDB, Cavani, Matic, Mata, Bailly, Henderson, Martial and also Ronaldo if we don't make top 4.All these players could be wanting to leave either in January or at the end of the season. Are we really in a prime position for success?
Looking forward to you posting 40 videos of him losing his composure in interviews
I wouldn't specifically award him credit for VDB transfer after being a key player in the event that happens. As you say, each signing has its own context. You could say VDB he gets precisely zero, Sancho a decent amount because realistically he could be a massive long term payoff whereas the utilisation is measured in weeks so isn't particularly pertinent, lots for Maguire and AWB. You can slice and dice it for all of them and it's slightly different if a little abstract.
But I think its more of a sense of whether the squad is left in a position to challenge. That means the squad, the contractual situation of players, the overall development of players. It's more than just incomings and outgoings. Some of that is not particularly visible right now, either because more information is needed or its kind of hard to separate from current performance levels.
My sense is that it's a mixed bag. Signings mixed, we have Pogba to deal with, Cavani and Ronaldo to deal with, some players have developed, others have stagnated. But I am reasonably optimistic. Not necessarily for this season but for what a new manager can do with this platform. Admittedly it could just be my own optimism but I don't think all of Oles work produced nothing.
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It was an idea that definitely wasn't driven by the club's PR dept? Well I'm honoured to be in the presence of somebody with such privileged inside info!
My goodness, the fact that people are losing their shit over the fact that some people are questioning whether it is primarily a PR move from the club shows why appointing a 'club legend' is such a bad idea. Particularly a horrendously unqualified club legend. All sense and reason goes out of the window.
Given that you're on 3 boards of directors I thought you'd be well versed on how PR depts and severance agreements work...
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well come on, it took you 8 hours to understand that you weren't stating a factThe irony.
Don't necessarily disagree. Let's all hope the new manager will be a success.
Ole was never put under any real pressure in interviews and he still looked like a rabbit caught in headlights. As for him very rarely putting a foot wrong in what he says have you seen any of his pressers in the last 3 years? I will give him credit for being a gentleman though. Still seems to be respected at the club even though it ended badly for him and even though I'm glad he's gone of course I wish him well.
Is that a fact?well come on, it took you 8 hours to understand that you weren't stating a fact
12 hours later and you still don't understand that wasn't the case. We know you don't accept facts preferring your own theories but now we learn that you seem to think you saying something (and repeating it) makes it a fact.
Brilliant.
forever and always, despicable the way the club has treated him imho.
You are our Solksjaer! Our Olé Solksjaer…
Honestly will miss him being at the club but it’s been apparent he should of gone after the scousers ripped us a new one
I agree but honestly I’m more disappointed in the way a section of fans have treated him
Ole is and always will be a legend.
I really wanted him to do well and apart from
this season think he’s did do ok. The way it ended was sad and it was time for him to go 3 games ago, the club prolonged the agony. It’s a shame he’s a genuine guy but he just wasn’t up to it.
I really wanted him to do well and apart from
this season think he’s did do ok. The way it ended was sad and it was time for him to go 3 games ago, the club prolonged the agony. It’s a shame he’s a genuine guy but he just wasn’t up to it.
I'm not sure what you think Oles employment contract says, but I can guarantee you it does not contain a section about termination PR interview and lie about its intent.
The severance package is exclusively linked to the terms of his contract as the terms of termination.
The only way your theory works is if the arrangement was made mutual on the stipulation that Ole attends a interview. For that to happen there would have to be: Everyone lies. Ole lies. The club lies. Journalists lie. For very little gain.
Like, what's even the point? Its not plausible, and has no evidence to back it up.
Phil Jones is a good dude, I hope he's able to make a meaningful comeback.
I couldn’t agree with you more about that section of the fan base. it’s down right despicable some of things I’ve seen said on twitter. It’s not his fault the club is a literal Cluster…..
If you cut the guy we all know he literally would bleed United. He is United through and through after all this ‘Cloub’ (said in a Norwegian Manc accent)! is his club. What have they ever done other than moan that he’s not SAF. Baying for blood like some arsenal fan circa wenger era.
People need to hurry up and wake up. It’s been 9 and half years since Fergie….. as much as it pains me to say that, we don’t have a god given right to win the league year in year out. no one’s ever going to come close to what he did for us
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