Ole and his dross signings

[Kostov]

Mainstain does not equal being good enough, does it? Would any those mentioned players start for City / Bayern / Real?

Good enough like Vidic and Rio good enough or simply by far the best CB we currently have?

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Should he be accountable for wasting an absolute fortune on a total dross?

Maguire - £ 80M
AWB - £ 50M
James - £ 15M
VDB - £ 45M

That’s around £ 200M on players that have either barely improved us or have done nothing at all, yet people are comfortable with giving him another summer of spending to mask his coaching inability?

at least get your facts right if you want to make a point, which there is none to be made in your post to begin with, VdB cost the club a maximum of 44M Euros/37M Pounds. (officially stated by Ajax in their website).


Maguire & AWB are doing well and are ever present in the team that now sits 2nd in the league, as is Bruno and Cavani who you intentionally failed to mention as Ole signings, to drive your nonsensical point, Telles is providing an excellent cover for Shaw. Amad & Pallistri are young and for the future.

James was a punt from a Championship team, so he is a low risk/high reward signing, an "ok" squad option, and can be easily sold as he can be an excellent option for many teams in the mid-table and can fetch a good price as he is young & British.

VdB so far is a poor signing, and perhaps should be moved on, or can be given another season to reinvent himself.

I'd rather you question his coaching/managerial ability rather than his signings, which has been generally good, there are many areas in his coaching that you can legitimately question (tactics/formations/subs/rotations/ etc..).

And I believe we should not link coaching ability with quality of signings, Pep & Zidane made quite the number of expensive flops during their managerial career, but their coaching ability is excellent.

 

[SecondFig]

Looking at Utd's transfer record since SAF retired, this thread is ridiculous. For me, Ole has far and away the best success rate post-Fergie - of his signings to date (and accepting he doesn't dictate the final fee) I'd say only VdB could be considered a "flop" - and he's a young player adjusting to a new league etc., so I'm still hopeful that he'll improve.

Maguire may not be VVD but he's comfortably our best and most consistent CB; AWB could still improve on his offensive contribution but he's defensively excellent; Cavani has worked well as a free-agent punt; James was a risk worth taking and has contributed even if he's not set the league alight; Telles is decent and (more importantly) has pushed Shaw to his best season since we signed him; and of course Fernandes has been our most transformative signing since Eric. Other youngsters (Amad, Pellistri etc) are far too fresh to judge.

And just as importantly, Ole has cleared out significant deadwood or just players that weren't working - since he took over we've gotten rid of Fellaini, Young, Sanchez, Lukaku, Rojo, Smalling, Darmian, Fosu-Mensah, Borthwick-Jackson, and a few others. Now honestly, how many of them do you wish were still at the club?

My biggest reservations about Ole as manager are around his coaching - I really think he'd make a better DoF than manager. But, I definitely don't think his transfer record is "dross" - that's just knee jerk-muppetry after a single disappointing loss

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

I actually think Ole’s squad management of moving players on and bringing new players in has been the best part of his tenure so far. It’s not perfect but it’s a lot better than the mess LVG and Mourinho left us.

My concern two years on is the poor brand of football and lack of any adaptive football other than a rigid 4-2-3-1.

 

[Baneofthegame]

I don’t have a problem with AWB or Maguire, we overpaid for both.

Bruno has been great.

DVB doesn’t play, Telles is a backup, James is what he is and Cavani has been fine for a free transfer.

Diallo and Pellestri are youth signings.

 

[justsomebloke]

Should he be accountable for wasting an absolute fortune on a total dross?

Maguire - £ 80M
AWB - £ 50M
James - £ 15M
VDB - £ 45M

That’s around £ 200M on players that have either barely improved us or have done nothing at all, yet people are comfortable with giving him another summer of spending to mask his coaching inability?

Yeah, except they're not total dross and have improved us considerably. Donny excepted so far, but we'll see.

 

[Rocksy]

I don't think his signings have been dross. However, I think United are a bit too happy with their recent first-team business.

Wan-Bissaka is not a shocking signing, but he's not a great buy either. The briefing that they watched 800 right backs and came back to him is just weird. Obviously no one would buy him for what you paid.
Maguire: decent centre-half, who Leicester have replaced with better. Obviously no one would buy him for what you paid.
Cavani: Not a bad signing, not a great one.
Van de Beek: The type of player who the coach isn't really able to work with.
Telles: Decent squad option.
Bruno Fernandes: Genuinely good signing.

You'd probably want at least 1 more Bruno Fernandes signing in there before the recruitment team started talking about how shit-hot they are now. I think Chelsea, City, Leicester, Bayern, Liverpool tend to get that kind of hit rate. Maybe Fletcher will help with that...

 

[Hughie77]

Till now, I would rate Ole's signings like this:

Maguire: 7/10
AWB: 7/10
Bruno: 9/10
VDB: 1/10
James: 3/10
Telles: 5/10
Cavani: 6/10

Disagree, Telles is about a 2. James about 5.

 

[Alfie092]

Till now, I would rate Ole's signings like this:

Maguire: 7/10
AWB: 7/10
Bruno: 9/10
VDB: 1/10
James: 3/10
Telles: 5/10
Cavani: 6/10

Yeah I would go with the same, maybe give Maguire a 6/6.5 based on his price tag and the fact that he is our captain. I would maybe give Telles an average 6 because I don't think he has been exceptional when he has played but he hasn't been really poor either, just Shaw has been a 9/10 this season so Telles hasn't had much of a look in.

 

[red4ever 79]

AWB improved us.
Maguire improved us.
Bruno improved us.
James is probably net neutral but good squad player.
Telles good backup.
Cavani good option.
Amad apparently high potential.

Squad strength is improved and first XI is improved. Ole also isn't picking and choosing our players on his own or deciding their prices. This thread has no legs.

Any yet Ole seemingly doesnt use his squad very much

 

[ghaliboy]

I'm not sure when but at some point people will realise that the manager isn't solely responsible for the signings. Bruno is a fecking dime piece and lets just model all of our transfers around that guys attitude.

 

[Hughie77]

Telles as a back up left back and hes not good enough, please Shaw dont get a knock. Telles against top opponents struggles. James has been very good in last 5 or so games hes started, hes not a regular ok for £18 million. AWB is doing ok as well, Bruno well top class. Maguire also think hes been better this season. Younger ones we have to see, VDB well what can u say, has he taken his chance , is he doing it in training? Theres something wrong , cavani well a free .

 

[Doracle]

Bruno - 10/10 - impossible to have a better signing.

Maguire - 9/10 - slightly overpriced but great signing.

AWB - 7/10 - possibly a bit too defensive but young and will improve.

Telles - 6/10 - solid back up.

Cavani - 6/10 - done what was needed but required to do more as Martial has been so poor.

James - 5/10 - I don’t think he’s good enough but I can see why we purchased him and he does a job in certain matches.

DVB - 3/10 - the only one I’d so far rate as a failure. He doesn’t appear to fit into any position in our team and it’s hard to see why we purchased him based on performances to date.

Basically, a very poor thread. I think it’s fair to say none of the signings were cheap and we might have got better value but recruitment is much improved compared to the last two managers.

 

[Cassidy]

I'm still myth'd that the club spent near on 30+m on a young wide player in a pandemic, and hes not ready for the first team, but we were splitting hairs over an extra 20m upfront for Sancho

 

[Beachryan]

It doesn't get mentioned for some reason when discussing our transfers, but really think it's worth noting that Ole hasn't really signed many first team players. There's no such thing as a 'sure thing', so you always get some bad'uns in with the rest. City and Chelsea have both purchased significantly more first team players in the past few years, so when you get a Mangala, an Ake, a Mendy or a Pulisic that don't work out, it's okay, because you have a Dias, a Cancelo, a Ziyech etc to be an option. When Maguire isn't the greatest thing sliced bread, Ole has...erm...Phil Jones?

It's all about the absolute state of our squad management. In the past few years, anyone with a passing interest in football could see the gaps in United's squad, and look how we've addressed them:

CB: Bought Maguire, for the cost of two Maguires, presumably because Ed thought waiting til the last day would work. It did not.
DMF: Bought Fred - who it appears no manager actually wanted - for 50m, because it was a deal that could get done.
DMF: Gave Matic a three year contract, about three years after his legs were gone.
RWF: Signed some kid for first team money. Failed to sign main transfer target.
AMF: Bought Bruno in Jan instead of August, at big money, when we were the only club in for him.
CF: Got rid of only first team CF. Replaced with two semi-retired out of contract players.

Oh and Ed bought VdB, presumably because he was offered him.

Our signings fit into two categories with Ed:
1. Easily available with no competition, clearly driven by the player's agent rather than our squad needs
2. Overpriced and overcomplicated

I think a strong argument could be made that outside of Barcelona, we have the worst first team scouting and recruiting of any major club in world football.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I don't think his signings have been dross. However, I think United are a bit too happy with their recent first-team business.

Agreed, they are better than the Rojo's and Schneiderlin's of yester year, but not quite enough to take us to the next level yet. There's some potential in the young signings like AWB, but blowing 80m on Maguire with little return really hurts. It was pre Covid I'll give them that, but still reckless.

 

[Abraxas]

I think in modern football it's slightly off base not to consider the role of the wider recruitment team.

Ole seems to sign things off, from what we understand. He no doubt conducts a degree of scouting. There is culpability and credit due for signings, however it should be proportional, I don't think it would be right to characterise all aspects of signings as falling under the manager or to fail to mention the process within an appraisal of transfer activity.

Recruitment is all about increasing success rate by identifying risk and having competent staff. There are no clubs with perfect records as there is no perfect information on players, and the information you do get has to be interpreted and extrapolated. We see this in other teams signings as much as our own, success is mixed. Our greatest manager had duds.

There are not enough hours in a day for any manager, let alone one of a global brand like Manchester United to have complete oversight. There is reliance placed on staff. For me it is not so easy to just attack the manager for transfers, our scouting has appeared questionable for many, many years and it's not something we have much information on how the structures work or how good these people are. If the manager asks for a position and for a shortlist to be drawn, it is very clearly drawn from the data our team have gathered which is a simplistic way of showing how the manager's judgment operates within certain constraints.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Didn’t our PR team say we looked at 1000 centre backs & right backs or something? Then ended up signing from 2 guys Leicester & Palace who everyone already knew.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Any yet Ole seemingly doesnt use his squad very much

That's a different discussion with more legs. He definitely overworks his preferred players and it seems a high risk strategy for a long season, particularly with him seemingly keen on the EL. But the signings themselves have not been a major issue for me.

 

[Giggsy13]

In reading the extreme end of each argument shows that both sides of the debate are completely out to lunch. “Most of our signings are shit” on one side and then equally as ridiculous “our defence is impressive, Maguire is excellent” on the other. The truth is always of course in the middle and Ole has been OK so far with his signings. Maguire is good not great but at least provides some needed stability. The fact we are still searching for the right CB to partner him shows that’s he’s definitely not excellent, as I’ve read from some on here. Our back 4 remains a work in progress but better than how Jose left it.

I think if you look at it without the lens of hating or loving Ole, you can argue Bruno, Maguire and AWB are doing what we expect and more at least for Bruno. James is a decent bench option and Cavani a good stop-gap. I think judgment should be reserved for VDB, Telles, Diallo and Pellistri. We’ll see in the next few years whether Ole’s last window was a complete failure or a master stroke. It’s ridiculous coming to firm conclusions on players like VDB or Telles for that matter when they’ve come from inferior leagues. Time will tell, use some common sense FFS.

 

[Alfie092]

This summer is huge in terms of showing how ambitious we really are as a club. Even if we finish 2nd and win the EL, we are still far off where we want to be, which is genuinely challenging for the PL and CL

In order to do that we need to sign at least 3 players in key areas who are regulars in the starting 11 and are at least an 8 out of 10, or at least some of the existing players need to step up and be 8 out of 10 players. This is probably a big ask as you can only confidently say Bruno is the only Ole signing that has improved us for sure.

 

[Infra-red]

Didn’t our PR team say we looked at 1000 centre backs & right backs or something? Then ended up signing from 2 guys Leicester & Palace who everyone already knew.

We looked at 804 right backs before signing Wan Bissaka - that was Woodward's claim to Jason Burt at The Telegraph, anyway.

Nobody knows how many wingers and midfielders we looked at before deciding that the best options were James and VdB.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

In reading the extreme end of each argument shows that both sides of the debate are completely out to lunch. “Most of our signings are shit” on one side and then equally as ridiculous “our defence is impressive, Maguire is excellent” on the other. The truth is always of course in the middle and Ole has been OK so far with his signings. Maguire is good not great but at least provides some needed stability. The fact we are still searching for the right CB to partner him shows that’s he’s definitely not excellent, as I’ve read from some on here. Our back 4 remains a work in progress but better than how Jose left it.

I think if you look at it without the lens of hating or loving Ole, you can argue Bruno, Maguire and AWB are doing what we expect and more at least for Bruno. James is a decent bench option and Cavani a good stop-gap. I think judgment should be reserved for VDB, Telles, Diallo and Pellistri. We’ll see in the next few years whether Ole’s last window was a complete failure or a master stroke. It’s ridiculous coming to firm conclusions on players like VDB or Telles for that matter when they’ve come from inferior leagues. Time will tell, use some common sense FFS.

Good post.

Might add that it's hard to explain how a PE teacher is able to sit 2nd in the table come April when his signings have been largely shite - and he keeps playing those signings to a very large extent.

Either the players aren't utter dross - or Ole isn't utterly clueless in terms of setting them up, motivating them, etc. You can't have both - but there are certainly posters on here who try very hard.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

We looked at 804 right backs before signing Wan Bissaka - that was Woodward's claim to Jason Burt at The Telegraph, anyway.

Nobody knows how many wingers and midfielders we looked at before deciding that the best options were James and VdB.

804, where the feck were we looking!? There’s about 10 right backs in world football good enough for United. I wanna know who the other 794 were. This cnut was probably looking in the Saudi 3rd division & shit.

 

[Nicoseth]

Should he be accountable for wasting an absolute fortune on a total dross?

Maguire - £ 80M
AWB - £ 50M
James - £ 15M
VDB - £ 45M

That’s around £ 200M on players that have either barely improved us or have done nothing at all, yet people are comfortable with giving him another summer of spending to mask his coaching inability?

What a nonsense thread. "Dross signings" - wha? Maguire, AWB, Bruno - all quality signings that improved us massively. People forget very quickly how bad it was with Smalling and Jones back there, or Young at right back. We're vastly improved in those areas now. Bruno is arguably the best signing we've made since SAF retired. James was a cheap gamble and most people would say he plays like a 15m player. Cavani was free, so not really that much of a gamble. Donny is quality but maybe that was the wrong move for him.

The Ole-out agenda is ridiculous at times, looking for things to criticize that aren't really there. Give it a rest.