Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[BlackBen]

Ole is the managerial equivalent of Jesse Lingard. A very mediocre player(manager) who is still at United because he “gets” the club and has United DNA. Both are not good enough but are perceived to be because of some purple patch they had sometime ago(Lingard with “Messi Lingod and Ole with that 11 game new manager bounce) and have now reverted to type.

Sadly, their fans can’t accept the reality that both Ole and Lingard are just shit or average at best and hence they make up ridiculous excuses for them.With Lingard it’s he runs a lot, he presses, he creates spaces he just needs confidence, he’s a great squad player when on form, he’s the only one caring for his family and with Ole it’s he’s resetting the culture , he’s gotten rid of the deadwood, the squad is not good enough he needs at least four windows, he needs preseason, rebuilding, one night in Paris, Ed Woodward. See how they both sound ridiculous?

This is Manchester United and we the fans should demand better. We deserve to have one of the best managers in the world. We deserve to have a coherent and exciting style of play, we deserve to be at the top. Call me an entitled cnut all you want but it’s that attitude of entitlement that has seen Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern be where they are and we also where we are. It’s they refusing mediocrity and moving swiftly to rectify their shortcomings on the field even if it means going through more managers than Jonny Sins has porn actresses.

We don’t hear them saying they’re rebuilding so they’re putting success on the field on hold. They demand immediate success whiles rebuilding at the same time. None of this culture resetting and “*insert teams name* way” bullshit.

We’re one of the biggest clubs in the world and we should act like it. Where have all the standards gone to? We all know Woodward should be sacked and the Glazers should be gone but that’s not happening and that’s no excuse for Ole’s on pitch failures.

Shame on anyone who still wants Ole in charge. Shame on you for not wanting better for the club you claim you love. Shame!

 

[elnorte]

Well Klopp’s first two to three seasons were not great. Liverpool finished outside the top 4 and looked poor. Some Liverpool fans even called for him to be fired at one point.

The point I’m making is that with this current squad we have right now, not a proposed fantasy squad we could have had under another manager, this squad.

We wouldn’t be much better off bar maybe one position.

My god. I see you're back to your absolute worst.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Ole is the managerial equivalent of Jesse Lingard. A very mediocre player(manager) who is still at United because he “gets” the club and has United DNA. Both are not good enough but are perceived to be because of some purple patch they had sometime ago(Lingard with “Messi Lingod and Ole with that 11 game new manager bounce) and have now reverted to type.

Sadly, their fans can’t accept the reality that both Ole and Lingard are just shit or average at best and hence they make up ridiculous excuses for them.With Lingard it’s he runs a lot, he presses, he creates spaces he just needs confidence, he’s a great squad player when on form, he’s the only one caring for his family and with Ole it’s he’s resetting the culture , he’s gotten rid of the deadwood, the squad is not good enough he needs at least four windows, he needs preseason, rebuilding, one night in Paris, Ed Woodward. See how they both sound ridiculous?

This is Manchester United and we the fans should demand better. We deserve to have one of the best managers in the world. We deserve to have a coherent and exciting style of play, we deserve to be at the top. Call me an entitled cnut all you want but it’s that attitude of entitlement that has seen Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern be where they are and we also where we are. It’s they refusing mediocrity and moving swiftly to rectify their shortcomings on the field even if it means going through more managers than Jonny Sins has porn actresses.

We don’t hear them saying they’re rebuilding so they’re putting success on the field on hold. They demand immediate success whiles rebuilding at the same time. None of this culture resetting and “*insert teams name* way” bullshit.

We’re one of the biggest clubs in the world and we should act like it. Where have all the standards gone to? We all know Woodward should be sacked and the Glazers should be gone but that’s not happening and that’s no excuse for Ole’s on pitch failures.

Shame on anyone who still wants Ole in charge. Shame on you for not wanting better for the club you claim you love. Shame!

Doesn't really hold. Noone thinks Lingard is at Messis level. Although with Ole some seem to think he can reach Klopp and Pep levels.
Most think Lingard is a decent squad player and Ole is a short term manager before we find someone better.
Although with guys like Poch and Allegri with no job it gets hard to argue for keeping Ole.

 

[sunama]

Clearing deadwoods is like crediting the dynamite team that clears the rubbles to build the taj mahal

This is one of the best lines I've heard.
If you don't mind @Sky1981 , I'd like to use that in some of my posts.

 

[BlackBen]

Noone thinks Lingard is at Messis level.

I didn’t say that at all. I was referring to the form he had in that people think the form he showed back then is who he truly is as a player. Of course nobody thinks he is as good as Messi.

 

[Kush]

This is half Ole, half delusion. You are assuming that the likes of Mata/Pereira/Lingard can play towards a much better style of play. Yet I doubt you would have said the same in their player threads.

The gall of you to complain about the quality of these players, when it was Ole who handed out long term contracts to two of them last summer (Mata 3 years, Pereira 4+1)

The reason we are in this mess besides Ole's obvious lack of tactical ability, is how poorly he shaped the squad last summer. £150m is not a small amount of money to spend in a window, he misutilized those funds given the makeup of squad.

 

[mu4c_20le]

No I am assuming a different manager would play a different style because guess what his teams play a different style. Not every manager would play exactly the same
as Ole. I assume that’s not something you are not aware for some rea

Deluded is an easy word to throw around but sometimes it’s best to know what it actually means rather than just post it a lot.

Here’s a concept for you, not all managers play the same way or perform equally. A good indication of this is how they have performed previously and how their teams have played previously. This concept is reality and is not deluded, that means something different.

If we appointed Klopp he’d play differently, if we appointed Sam Allardyce he’d play differently. Can you guess what would happen if we appointed Pep?.

You didn't say different, you said much better style. We also weren't talking about other managers, we were talking about Klopp, who only knows one way, the gegen way. Most likely he would stick with the 4231 he used at Dortmund, because our wide forwards aren't good enough to be like his current Liverpool bar Rashford. You are assuming he could get the likes of Mata/Pereira/Lingard firing consistently.

 

[Gasolin]

You didn't say different, you said much better style. We also weren't talking about other managers, we were talking about Klopp, who only knows one way, the gegen way. Most likely he would stick with the 4231 he used at Dortmund, because our wide forwards aren't good enough to be like his current Liverpool bar Rashford. You are assuming he could get the likes of Mata/Pereira/Lingard firing consistently.

That's the nonsense of this forum recently. I like what I saw from Ole and the versatility of his mind when it comes to tactics. When we will have 2 full teams we can rotate, we will rotate and we will be in a much better position to challenge for the title.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I didn’t say that at all. I was referring to the form he had in that people think the form he showed back then is who he truly is as a player. Of course nobody thinks he is as good as Messi.

Yeah it can be fully hard to judge though. A manager can make players turn into shit. Poor players can make a manager look like shit too.

Although at the end of the day the manager can drop player, coach them, buy new players to make things work.
Thus I would give them more blame even though buying players might not always be the easiest with our board.
A player can't change a shit manager beyond trying to get him the sack etc which would not be nice.
Or play against the managers instructions, but that gets them benched normally. Pogba under Mourinho might apply here.
It is really only players with status like Ronaldo, Messi etc that has power to maybe remove a manager.

 

[hobbers]

Most think Lingard is a decent squad player

Wut? This was a mantra that was oft heard a couple of seasons ago, maybe.

I was under the impression everyone with working eyes had come to the conclusion Lingard was a Championship standard player at best a long while ago.

 

[Roboc7]

You didn't say different, you said much better style. We also weren't talking about other managers, we were talking about Klopp, who only knows one way, the gegen way. Most likely he would stick with the 4231 he used at Dortmund, because our wide forwards aren't good enough to be like his current Liverpool bar Rashford. You are assuming he could get the likes of Mata/Pereira/Lingard firing consistently.

So Klopp isn’t a better manager and could only do the same as Ole, nothing else?.

That’s my point Klopp would be implementing his style, his culture. I think it’s better as well as being different. He didn’t have great players or players who suited him at Liverpool but at no point did they regress.

And If Liverpool was Ole in charge this season they’d be doing exactly the same?. I assume Ole wins the treble in 99 as well.

 

[mu4c_20le]

So Klopp isn’t a better manager and could only do the same as Ole, nothing else?.

That’s my point Klopp would be implementing his style, his culture. I think it’s better as well as being different. He didn’t have great players or players who suited him at Liverpool but at no point did they regress.

And If Liverpool was Ole in charge this season they’d be doing exactly the same?.

You were asked what Klopp could do with this team. Your answer was simply, he can do much better. How much better? Which players would be improve? How much higher up the table would we be? That is the point of discussion, it was not intended to make you admit that Ole is better or just as good as Klopp. No one is, based on this season.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Wut? This was a mantra that was oft heard a couple of seasons ago, maybe.

I was under the impression everyone with working eyes had come to the conclusion Lingard was a Championship standard player at best a long while ago.

Things have obviously changed under Ole. Need a proper manager before we can fully judge most of our squad.
Although got little hope in Lingard doing much good then too.
Even though he has shown better form in the past.
Just do not feel he got the drive to improve himself enough to get back into good form.
Apart from low confidence at the moment that could change.

 

[Roboc7]

You were asked what Klopp could do with this team. Your answer was simply, he can do much better. How much better? Which players would be improve? How much higher up the table would we be? That is the point of discussion, it was not intended to make you admit that Ole is better or just as good as Klopp. No one is, based on this season.

I don’t have a crystal ball but if your asking me does a better manager do a better job then I’d say most likely. If we appointed Paul Fairclough he’d probably do a worse job. If Klopp’s in charge of same players it’s a different preseason, different tactics, different training, different coaching, different lineups, different and you think all those variables amount to same result.

Now does Ole do same job at Liverpool?. Or do want to just avoid that.

 

[Wolfmother]

Ighalo doesnt use that agent. Stop spreading false information.

The agent in question is Solbakken, he has the best players from the Norwegian league. Molde buying alot of players from him is very natrual, as he as the best players and the best network.
This thing is blown out of porportion.

Ighalo as a panic buy. We didn't have enough attackers from the start. One players gets injured and we are pushed to rush for a striker.
We have 5 clean sheets this season. Not very solid given how few points we have. If we scored loads and still won games it would matter less, but we have not so keeping clean sheet is more important than it is for say Man City.
Yeah you got a point that speculations should not matter. I do not know what we actually do when it comes to negociations, but we have been very poor in the market under him in my opinion when it comes to the results.
Half the players have got worse under him. It is hard how much Ole is to do with all those things. Although as a team we have got worse which is on him.
I think he might deserve some credit for Rashfords ability to score goals this season.
Although his problems in the build up and how to play against defensive sides is something that we have not improved upon even with Rashford.

Hard to know how good the morale is. It is probably better than the end during Mourinhos time here and it was very high after that when Ole took over. Although we do not look to play with much confidence this season. Rashford did, but he is probably one of few that has this season and we know he is naturally a very strong character with high confidence.
Greenwood has shown some confidence too, but has declined now near the end a bit. His management of Williams has been pretty good gradually giving him games so would give him some credit for him.

How shall we be able to attract top players when we might even miss Europa league? Pogba might leave too. Not seeing how he is making it easier for us to bring top players in for future windows.

Everything is given. When making assumptions.

Things have obviously changed under Ole. Need a proper manager before we can fully judge most of our squad.
Although got little hope in Lingard doing much good then too.
Even though he has shown better form in the past.
Just do not feel he got the drive to improve himself enough to get back into good form.
Apart from low confidence at the moment that could change.

Really? You need a manager to show you the ropes of what the players can do? All you really need to do is watch a game on video. Freeze frame, and watch the movement and what choice the players make - and have. It really isn’t harder than that. I think you will find more often than not that we are seriously missing a midfield. Both defensively and when attacking.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Now does Ole do same job at Liverpool?. Or do want to just avoid that.

I pretty much answered that already. No one can do what he's done at Liverpool, not even Pep.

 

[Roboc7]

I pretty much answered that already. No one can do what he's done at Liverpool, not even Pep.

But it’s the same players and what he does isn’t any better than what Ole does so why we would it be worse?. Apparently it wouldn’t be different other way round.

Klopp could have has a disaster in charge of us this season, Allardyce could have us in top 4. But I’d expect Klopp to do better and he’d be implementing a better style, patterns of play etc.

Let’s be honest you’ve made your mind up when you ask who can do better all you can think is no one. Despite every action and decision that takes place throughout the season all you can see is one outcome.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Everything is given. When making assumptions.

Really? You need a manager to show you the ropes of what the players can do? All you really need to do is watch a game on video. Freeze frame, and watch the movement and what choice the players make - and have. It really isn’t harder than that. I think you will find more often than not that we are seriously missing a midfield. Both defensively and when attacking.

You know we do things in training and that the players got instructions from the manager right?
It is the manager that sets the way we are going to play.

Or do you think the players do everything freely? It is possible under Ole since we do not seem to do a lot as a team at times.

 

[el3mel]

Well Klopp’s first two to three seasons were not great. Liverpool finished outside the top 4 and looked poor. Some Liverpool fans even called for him to be fired at one point.

The point I’m making is that with this current squad we have right now, not a proposed fantasy squad we could have had under another manager, this squad.

We wouldn’t be much better off bar maybe one position.

That's complete rewriting history. You know we were following the league back then right ? Liverpool finished outside top 4 in the season Klopp got the job midseason in October or November. His first full season they finished 4th. Second season 4th + CL final.

 

[Wolfmother]

You know we do things in training and that the players got instructions from the manager right?
It is the manager that sets the way we are going to play.

Or do you think the players do everything freely? It is possible under Ole since we do not seem to do a lot as a team at times.

Mate. Do you really think Ole is giving instructions for our number 10’s not picking the best pass and facing the wrong direction? I don’t support the notion that we are a counter attacking team. But if we where. Isn’t it strange our AM is facing the wrong way so often? There are tons of examples like this, if you actually bothered to look.

Yes, the players do everything freely. They are the ones making the choices. Instructions are all good and well. But ability do actually matter.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Mate. Do you really think Ole is giving instructions for our number 10’s not picking the best pass and facing the wrong direction? I don’t support the notion that we are a counter attacking team. But if we where. Isn’t it strange our AM is facing the wrong way so often? There are tons of examples like this, if you actually bothered to look.

Yes, the players do everything freely. They are the ones making the choices. Instructions are all good and well. But ability do actually matter.

I do not think we train attacking patterns enough. How to move to open up space for passes into dangerous areas. How to combine with each other etc. It feels very random when we play against compact sides.
Lingard pretty much only starts when we wants to counter attack. That is what he does, but we are not always making coordinated runs then either.
From the bench though it doesn't look like Ole has giving him many instructions at all. He looks more clueless then than ever.

 

[Gasolin]

I do not think we train attacking patterns enough. How to move to open up space for passes into dangerous areas. How to combine with each other etc. It feels very random when we play against compact sides.
Lingard pretty much only starts when we wants to counter attack. That is what he does, but we are not always making coordinated runs then either.
From the bench though it doesn't look like Ole has giving him many instructions at all. He looks more clueless then than ever.

So how much training is needed to say to a AM: pick the best pass, and face the goals and not the wrong direction? Do you think Ole tells him to not do any of those?

 

[Forevergiggs1]

You were asked what Klopp could do with this team. Your answer was simply, he can do much better. How much better? Which players would be improve? How much higher up the table would we be? That is the point of discussion, it was not intended to make you admit that Ole is better or just as good as Klopp. No one is, based on this season.

Performances aren't just about match days but all about what goes on behind the scenes. Coaching and the most important of all transfers. You asked which players Klopp would improve. It's true he (probably) wouldn't improve Peirera, Lingard or Mata but if Klopp was manager these players would of been shown the door last summer or at the very best be scrapping the barrel squad options, instead of 2 of them being given long term contracts. This was Oles doing and is one of the many reasons we're in the shite we're in.
It wouldn't surprise me if Ighalo was given a contract if he scores 5 or 6 goals or failing that Josh King coming in as our main striker in the summer. These type of players are Oles level but tell me how we're going to go back to the top going forward like this? The easy answer is we're not.

Subpar manager managing subpar players is for other leagues. Not for one of the biggest names in world football. And that's got nothing to do with arrogance.

 

[the chameleon]

Well Klopp’s first two to three seasons were not great. Liverpool finished outside the top 4 and looked poor. Some Liverpool fans even called for him to be fired at one point.

The point I’m making is that with this current squad we have right now, not a proposed fantasy squad we could have had under another manager, this squad.

We wouldn’t be much better off bar maybe one position.

Here's the fact. Klopp joined Liverpool in October 2015, and finished that season with 60 points and got to the final of the Europa League.

This was his first season with Liverpool. I would almost not count this season because he took over and had to clear some of his deadwood.

In the second season onwards, Klopp has never had less than 75 points, we'll be lucky to finish with 54. Solskjaer and Klopp are not anything like one another. Ole is a relegation level manager that is way out of his debt. It is completely deluded to even compare. The sooner we get rid of him the better.

These misleading comparisons need to stop otherwise we are in danger of regressing as a club.

 

[el3mel]

Any manager will do with this United squad far better than Ole, because Ole isn't doing any single good thing so far. We are 7th in the table with 36% win in the league and only 13 games remaining. Any top manager will do better than that, literally anyone. It won't be hard.

 

[Garethw]

Any manager will do with this United squad far better than Ole, because Ole isn't doing any single good thing so far. We are 7th in the table with 36% win in the league and only 13 games remaining. Any top manager will do better than that, literally anyone. It won't be hard.

He’s doing a fecking terrible job and if he wasn’t a United legend every single fan would see that.

This experiment has completely fecking failed.

It’s time to move on. If he is still manager come the summer then it shows that the club has absolutely zero ambition to become the best again.

 

[USREDEVIL]

The number of wins we have is completely atrocious. Check my papers, i've been Ole in until recently but I've seen enough at this point.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

The number of wins we have is completely atrocious. Check my papers, i've been Ole in until recently but I've seen enough at this point.

It is not overall that bad if you include the cups. Although it is mainly from having many easier cup games.
In the league this season we have almost followed as we started from the first 3 games. 1 win, 1 draw, 1 defeat and then repeat.
That will normally take you to around 8-9th since, but we have done slightly better so 7th for the moment.
Although 2 defeats in a row and we could easily be 10th or worse.

Our form without Rashford is 1/9 points so it doesn't feel like we are going to get enough goals in the future even with Bruno.

 

[momo83]

Well Klopp’s first two to three seasons were not great. Liverpool finished outside the top 4 and looked poor. Some Liverpool fans even called for him to be fired at one point.

The point I’m making is that with this current squad we have right now, not a proposed fantasy squad we could have had under another manager, this squad.

We wouldn’t be much better off bar maybe one position.

Why do Ole In always resort to lies. Klopp took over in October. In that season he didn’t qualify for the CL, in his first full season he qualified for the CL. Please stop lying to try and make Ole look less crap then he is.

 

[littleman]

Forget Ole is the manager for one second and let's pretend its Pep, Klopp, Pochettino, whomever you want. Then look at the squad and tell me where you think the current set of players realistically have a chance of finishing.

Top 6?
Top 4?
Top 2?

Top 4 easy
if they were worth their salt they wouldn’t get the squad to this state in the first place

 

[0le]

I do not think we train attacking patterns enough. How to move to open up space for passes into dangerous areas. How to combine with each other etc. It feels very random when we play against compact sides.
Lingard pretty much only starts when we wants to counter attack. That is what he does, but we are not always making coordinated runs then either.
From the bench though it doesn't look like Ole has giving him many instructions at all. He looks more clueless then than ever.

I think Ole's tactic is to give the attacking players a large amount of freedom - not complete freedom but a lot more than say Mourinho. This may have worked twenty years ago but I don't think it is as effective in the modern game.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Being in a bunch of cup competitions with minnows has masked how diabolical it’s been under Ole.

https://ibb.co/3dYfTr4

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Any other manager and the club would be considered to be in complete crisis. Ole somehow comes out of it smiling and secure despite managing us terribly.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

So incredibly untrue. Liverpool officially arrived in the season where we came 2nd. People just hadn't taken notice

Bingo.

 

[The Leader]

I think Ole's tactic is to give the attacking players a large amount of freedom

Ole gonna freestyle. He have terrible coaching abilities. All he did was be nice and smile to everyone in hope to keep his job with that. I doubt even his player's having hard time to understand what he trying to intruct in the touch line.

Even my country (outside top 300 football ranking) wont take his as manager. Nvm EPL

 

[Wolfmother]

Why do Ole In always resort to lies. Klopp took over in October. In that season he didn’t qualify for the CL, in his first full season he qualified for the CL. Please stop lying to try and make Ole look less crap then he is.

I’d rather a poster get a few details wrong, and I wouldn’t call It lying. Far worse when a poster get it wrong, let’s say, like you. Then get served more details, but refuse to take it on board..

Regarding Klopp. 4th, 8th. And 2th? People was at the time going on and on he was not good enough for the English game. Guess what. He was.

 

[tenpoless]

There's no way He'll leave now. Not until the end of season. They've just signed Bruno (and Odion) for him. The board must be thinking "Well, that's this season sorted". In their minds it must have been brilliant moves.

 

[Mockney]

Well Klopp’s first two to three seasons were not great. Liverpool finished outside the top 4 and looked poor. Some Liverpool fans even called for him to be fired at one point.

What point was this? Was it a real point, or more of a hypothetical point? Maybe a cosmic point?

Was it after he’d got them to the Europa League final in his first half season after a dramatic 4 goal quarter final comeback against Dortmund, perhaps?..

Or was it after he got them into the Champions league the very next season, very much not finishing outside of the top 4, or looking poor, in anyway, save his first half season.. and also jumping from 8th to 4th in a very reasonable demonstration of the kind of impact a good manager can have in that period..

Or maybe was it the following season? Where he reached the Champions League final? This being the third season, of course, where you say he was still apparently definitely crap?

Or was it the one after that where he won it? No. It’s probably not that one.

So, which one of those very demonstrably improving seasons is the most comparable to Ole’s transition from “a bit shit and 6th” to “still a bit shit and now 7th” exactly? ... I’m a little confused?

Are they real, or are they dancer? Pics or it didn’t happen... everything in your post is completely wrong... we are the future we imagine for ourselves! Wibble!!

 

[Mockney]

Regarding Klopp. 4th, 8th. And 2th?

Or... 8th (half season) 4th, 4th, 2nd, 1st...

People was at the time going on and on he was not good enough for the English game. Guess what. He was.

What people!? Where are they? Did they leave footprints? Will they ever come back? Were they ever really here, or were the real opinions the friends we made along the way?

We may have taken the piss out of Klopp back then, when we we winning things and looking on the up under the early days of Mourinho, but I distinctly remember all the Liverpool fans on here being absolutely delighted with him.... even occasionally to the point of not caring that they weren’t winning things cos the football was so good.

So the idea that he was ever doubted as much as Ole, or that he divided the fans, or didn’t show improvement right away, is all utter bollocks... please, just stop doing it! All the actual evidence is right there! It was only 4 years ago FFS, and we’re all literally on the Internet!

Here look, I’ll help! - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-liverpool/platzierungen/verein/31

 

[Web of Bissaka]

I think Ole's tactic is to give the attacking players a large amount of freedom - not complete freedom but a lot more than say Mourinho. This may have worked twenty years ago but I don't think it is as effective in the modern game.

Yes - full reliance on players on how to attack.

So obviously having better players eg. Pogba n Rashford will make it works up to a limiting point, as well as players that have good football brains eg. McT and Greenwood.

Ole's problem is not having many players like those. And have too many that are not.

Second prob is his insistence on and bs beliefs in using that tactic. Ridiculous.
It pales in comparison vs well trained organised teams which are plenty now.

So... Dinosaur tactic? Man is out of time.

Ole is holding the team back.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What point was this? Was it a real point, or more of a hypothetical point? Maybe a cosmic point?

Was it after he’d got them to the Europa League final in his first half season after a dramatic 4 goal quarter final comeback against Dortmund, perhaps?..

Or was it after he got them into the Champions league the very next season, very much not finishing outside of the top 4, or looking poor, in anyway, save his first half season.. and also jumping from 8th to 4th in a very reasonable demonstration of the kind of impact a good manager can have in that period..

Or maybe was it the following season? Where he reached the Champions League final? This being the third season, of course, where you say he was still apparently definitely crap?

Or was it the one after that where he won it? No. It’s probably not that one.

So, which one of those very demonstrably improving seasons is the most comparable to Ole’s transition from “a bit shit and 6th” to “still a bit shit and now 7th” exactly? ... I’m a little confused?

Are they real, or are they dancer? Pics or it didn’t happen... everything in your post is completely wrong... we are the future we imagine for ourselves! Wibble!!

Thank you for saving me the effort.

To be honest, I find it staggering how many people genuinely believe this extremely obtuse logic that every manager who took 2/3/4/5 years to reach the pinnacle, is a perfect example to justify someone else who is failing miserably and evidently not good enough, ignoring that the ones who did eventually get there didn't just magically by a flick of a switch do so. They tended to consistently have made genuine progress over the course of that period while showcasing their excellence , because they were genuinely good enough. It's like comparing Chong to Ronaldo and saying "well Ronaldo also had difficult times when he was a teenager at United". Well, sure, but the ability and potential was bloody obvious wasn't it? And it doesn't mean you give every talentless bloke 3 seasons at Manchester United. I keep citing this example but there's a reason why you should be giving Greenwood time and patience and not affording Keiron Richardson level players the same.